This is something I've been pondering for quite some time with no luck and maybe you can help me with it. I've been attempting to think on it as logically and keeping the emotions in control, but it hasn't helped.

Humans are social animals....that is something almost everyone agrees on. Some humans learn to live alone, but most need people, need acquaintances, friends, or at least company at least on occasion in order to function and survive. Why is it, then, that most humans can readily say "good bye" to someone and plan on never seeing them again and be okay with that? I can see that in a case of severe abuse or neglect, but most people seem to be able to do that at the drop of a hat.

During high school graduation, I had to fight tears constantly knowing I'd never see most of the people I'd just spend four years with again, while most of fellow students seemed to be satisfied knowing that....and the few times I've attempted to reestablish contact with a few of them, they've acted like I'm an intruder. I am a teacher and the same thing happens to me at the end of each school year. I am fighting back tears knowing I'll never see some of my students again while the other teachers are basically saying "good riddance".

I just want to understand how other people, "normal" people think as opposed to us. I've said it before: it's taken a long time, but I think I finally understand how I think, how we in the BPD family think, but I don't understand how "normal" people think....and I really want to figure it out as well as the rationale behind it.

I think it would help me fill in some empty gaps and also help me find a bit of closure here and there as well as help me moderate some of my BPD symptoms. They are always worse when I feel lonely or abandoned. Any ideas?

Originally Posted by Maranara

This is something I've been pondering for quite some time with no luck and maybe you can help me with it. I've been attempting to think on it as logically and keeping the emotions in control, but it hasn't helped.

Humans are social animals....that is something almost everyone agrees on. Some humans learn to live alone, but most need people, need acquaintances, friends, or at least company at least on occasion in order to function and survive. Why is it, then, that most humans can readily say "good bye" to someone and plan on never seeing them again and be okay with that? I can see that in a case of severe abuse or neglect, but most people seem to be able to do that at the drop of a hat.

During high school graduation, I had to fight tears constantly knowing I'd never see most of the people I'd just spend four years with again, while most of fellow students seemed to be satisfied knowing that....and the few times I've attempted to reestablish contact with a few of them, they've acted like I'm an intruder. I am a teacher and the same thing happens to me at the end of each school year. I am fighting back tears knowing I'll never see some of my students again while the other teachers are basically saying "good riddance".

I just want to understand how other people, "normal" people think as opposed to us. I've said it before: it's taken a long time, but I think I finally understand how I think, how we in the BPD family think, but I don't understand how "normal" people think....and I really want to figure it out as well as the rationale behind it.

I think it would help me fill in some empty gaps and also help me find a bit of closure here and there as well as help me moderate some of my BPD symptoms. They are always worse when I feel lonely or abandoned. Any ideas?

just one word maranara.

"expect"

normal people expect others to be there they have no shame nothing to hold them back if they don't arrive then they will chase them track them down "why"?....did you leave me like that?

I would never do that! chase anyone down...

I am the blame the fault the distinct mis-fortune....

I will hide away or outright destroy people I fear have compromised my fragile sense of self after I have destroyed myself.....so they are safe anyway


basically ??

I am screwed

damn this is pretty full on...got more to add but not right now...

dm

[Flooded]

I've got no idea. I'm not normal

Likewise, I'm not normal...I cant even relate. It is true that we BPDs experience abandonment as trauma, so we do in fact have a complex form of PTSD which is manifest in our 'personality'. I think 'normal healthy' people know how to grieve and cope in healthy ways, so the 'abandonment' isn't perceived as too traumatic. I think with trauma, if it occurs often (or is self-perpetuating as in our case perhaps) it can cause even more fear of the trauma repeating. I think healthy people aren't stuck in this cycle of fear> fear becomes manifest in reality and our disorder makes it self-perpetuating>trauma>repeat>more trauma>more fear and on and on it goes.

This also comes back to validation, a healthy person can validate his or herself, they don't need others to do this (even though it's nice sometimes). We however rely on others to do this...we make an investment in people, thus our expectations and demands are unreasonable (because afterall we know we can only find validation from within ourselves) our fears are magnified because we don't know how to self-validate, thus our trauma is magnified when we are left or abandoned (possibly because of our unreasonable demands or fears), and it becomes significantly harder because of a lack of coping skills.

I honestly don't believe that a lot of people are 'okay' with abandonment, unless they're doing the abandoning...if they have nothing 'invested' in the relationship (ie. a responsibility or a reliance) it's not such a loss...They can move in linear ways in and out of relationships without that fear, because they can always validate themselves. They know that they don't feel as if a part of themselves is lost. They don't feel as attached and dependent on the other person.
At least that's what I can theorize

Originally Posted by stratocaster

Likewise, I'm not normal...I cant even relate. It is true that we BPDs experience abandonment as trauma, so we do in fact have a complex form of PTSD which is manifest in our 'personality'. I think 'normal healthy' people know how to grieve and cope in healthy ways, so the 'abandonment' isn't perceived as too traumatic. I think with trauma, if it occurs often (or is self-perpetuating as in our case perhaps) it can cause even more fear of the trauma repeating. I think healthy people aren't stuck in this cycle of fear> fear becomes manifest in reality and our disorder makes it self-perpetuating>trauma>repeat>more trauma>more fear and on and on it goes.

This also comes back to validation, a healthy person can validate his or herself, they don't need others to do this (even though it's nice sometimes). We however rely on others to do this...we make an investment in people, thus our expectations and demands are unreasonable (because afterall we know we can only find validation from within ourselves) our fears are magnified because we don't know how to self-validate, thus our trauma is magnified when we are left or abandoned (possibly because of our unreasonable demands or fears), and it becomes significantly harder because of a lack of coping skills.

I honestly don't believe that a lot of people are 'okay' with abandonment, unless they're doing the abandoning...if they have nothing 'invested' in the relationship (ie. a responsibility or a reliance) it's not such a loss...They can move in linear ways in and out of relationships without that fear, because they can always validate themselves. They know that they don't feel as if a part of themselves is lost. They don't feel as attached and dependent on the other person.
At least that's what I can theorize

They may not be "okay" persay, but are able to recover in, what? A few weeks tops, while we're still wallowing in it a year or more later. Sigh...

[Uprwestsdr]

I had these issues at one time. It helps to realize: FEELINGS AREN'T FACTS. In other words you may feel abandon but it is unlikely you have been abandoned. Little children can be abandoned but adults can't. Most often (for me) it is about someone else doing what they need to do. If you're serious about getting past this painful reaction, don't say anything. Call a friend or sponsor and run this by him/her to check reality. Unfortunately it takes discipline to get this disease under control.

[cboxpalace]

I'm really surprised that people appear to have a hard time answering this, because it does seem quite logical to me. They have

1. confidence
2. stable, healthy and more functional emotions
3. It's a natural progression of life, and lives change.
4. We often thing because we react/feel a certain way if they don't react the same way then it doesn't bother them

Originally Posted by Maranara

Humans are social animals....that is something almost everyone agrees on. Some humans learn to live alone, but most need people, need acquaintances, friends, or at least company at least on occasion in order to function and survive. Why is it, then, that most humans can readily say "good bye" to someone and plan on never seeing them again and be okay with that? I can see that in a case of severe abuse or neglect, but most people seem to be able to do that at the drop of a hat.

During high school graduation, I had to fight tears constantly knowing I'd never see most of the people I'd just spend four years with again, while most of fellow students seemed to be satisfied knowing that....and the few times I've attempted to reestablish contact with a few of them, they've acted like I'm an intruder. I am a teacher and the same thing happens to me at the end of each school year. I am fighting back tears knowing I'll never see some of my students again while the other teachers are basically saying "good riddance".

I highly doubt any of them are saying good riddance. It's a natural progression in life when there comes a time that we ALL have to part ways and say our good byes. When we leave school, change jobs, or move we change and new people enter our lives. The situation has changed. There's been a few occasions where I've tried to reestablish communication with people I went to school with, and almost always it's never really successful. My life is different and so is theirs. We no longer have what we had in common with one another. They don't cease all social contact, and become hermits. It's quite the opposite their life has changed and new interactions with people have developed.

I coach kids sports and it's always hard to say good bye to a lot of my players at the end of the season. I spent a Summer developing their talent, coaching them and developing relationships with them and some of the other parents. At the end of the season it's time to say good bye. I'm no longer their coach. I don't like and I'm sure on some level neither do they if they had fun, but that's the way it is.. It's life.

Also, we tend to read into situations and assume we know what people think and/or feel because if they don't react in the same we do then they must not care.

I quoted a thread I wrote from another forum. It can be found here http://forums.psychcentral.com/showt...=246594&page=3 on page 3 towards the bottom titled "Checking our Motives" and also quite a bit here http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=226749. Dubble Monkey is incorrect. They don't EXPECT, we do. We put a lot of emphasis on people and do things for them and then EXPECT them to do the same or something similar in return, and when they don't we crash. It applies to probably everything where we have an expectation out of others. What we do for others has to be because we WANT to do that and be prepared to expect nothing in return. If we can't do that then it's best not to do it. What we perceive to be an important gesture of care/friendship may not hold that same importance to whoever, just like what they do for us may be important to them and not hold the same importance. This does relate to what is being discussed here because you have this thought process of I feel this way so it's logical they must feel this way and because they don't (which is your assumption) you must not be of value to them or they must not care. It's you that has an EXPECTATION of similar reactions. It's important to change your mindset to it really sucks and hurt saying good bye to people, and you react to that by crying. Then tell yourself THEY probably feel a similar way and hate to see this part of their life over, and because they don't react the same as you doesn't mean it doesn't bother them what it means is they react differently to the same situation, but FEEL similar emotions.

Originally Posted by cboxpalace

I'm really surprised that people appear to have a hard time answering this, because it does seem quite logical to me. They have

1. confidence
2. stable, healthy and more functional emotions
3. It's a natural progression of life, and lives change.
4. We often thing because we react/feel a certain way if they don't react the same way then it doesn't bother them

Self-validation and acceptance. We can't do those things unless we learn them.

mara

"They may not be "okay" persay, but are able to recover in, what? A few weeks tops, while we're still wallowing in it a year or more later. Sigh... "

Yep, because we still want validation from them and we lack acceptance skills.

[cboxpalace]

Originally Posted by stratocaster

Self-validation and acceptance. We can't do those things unless we learn them.

mara

Yep, because we still want validation from them and we lack acceptance skills.

That is how a normal functioning person moves on. It is not their job to teach us these skills.

What I described it something that can be done. In fact what I described is a dbt skill. She has a mindset that many of us do and it's based on assumption/emotion.

It's about changing our mindset. Is our thinking based on fact or is based on emotion? This is our problem we base much of what we think in regards to others based on emotion rather than fact. It is something that can be learned, and it takes practice otherwise dbt would be useless, and dbt is only effective if you practice. In fact, taking dbt is pointless unless you're willing to try and change your thought process and practice skills so you can integrate them into your daily living.

We all do things for others with a hidden agenda. I want to do something nice for you.. Why am I doing it? Is it to be just nice and I want to do it or is it to be nice and I expect something nice in return? The nice in return is a hidden agenda. You then have to ask yourself can I do something nice for this person and not expect anything in return? Can I accept if they don't do the same for me it doesn't mean they don't like me? If you can then do it and if you can't then don't.

This does work, and it won't happen overnight. The more you think about this thought process the day will come when you start catching yourself thinking like this and begin to cope ahead with how to react to the triggers. The first time will be hard, the second time will be hard, the 20th time won't be so hard.

So what does Mara do? She can do nothing, and nothing changes or she can begin trying to cope ahead. The day will come when she needs to say goodbye to students, she will cry and this is how SHE (not necessarily others) express her feelings. There is nothing wrong with how she expresses her emotions. They may not cry but it has nothing to do with Mara, that is their way of expression. We do not know what someone is feeling inside. Not knowing what someone is feeling inside is fact vs assuming what someone is feeling inside is emotion based thinking.

[cboxpalace]

Originally Posted by Uprwestsdr

I had these issues at one time. It helps to realize: FEELINGS AREN'T FACTS. In other words you may feel abandon but it is unlikely you have been abandoned. Little children can be abandoned but adults can't. Most often (for me) it is about someone else doing what they need to do. If you're serious about getting past this painful reaction, don't say anything. Call a friend or sponsor and run this by him/her to check reality. Unfortunately it takes discipline to get this disease under control.

I rest my case!!!

I agree, Up and C. "feelings aren't facts" they're subjective experiences. Lol, my sponsor drills this into my head at least once a week. But, "it is a fact that I'm experiencing a feeling." And, thoughts aren't facts either...We BPDs often find that feelings and thoughts are our enemies, they appear as real to us as any empirical evidence.

I enjoyed what you had to say C about DBT and 'checking motives', some great advice there, would be interested to hear more about your success with DBT. I'll just add that we can 'experience' our thoughts and feelings a bit easier via meditation, it really helps to allow the feelings and thoughts to get through without getting caught on obsession.

Yep, I'm really glad feelings aren't facts, otherwise the facts would generally suck.

[cboxpalace]

Have you looked at the website www.dbtselfhelp.com? If you haven't take a look. It's the dbt program online and it's free. This change doesn't happen right away... It's a matter of catching yourself thinking like that and then reacting in a different way.

For ie. I wanted to be a moderator in another forum, and figured it would be a long shot. Rather than go into the situation unprepared and be disappointed if they said no, I coped ahead with how I'd react and how I could do things differently if they said no. It helped.

Dbt has helped me with things that I can anticipate like what I just described above. Unfortunately, it hasn't helped with interpersonal relationships and in areas where I accomplish something and feeling nothing... I really don't have much hope in those areas when it feels like their is a piece of me that is missing..

[athena2011]

I agree with what Stratocaster and Cbox had to say. Also...I think that we simply over-react. We FEEL things much more strongly, so much so that it impedes rational thought. My emotions are so overwhelming that CBT did not work for me. I could not stop in the situation and apply a rational thought process. I could only apply it in hindsight as part of my 'CBT homework' and even then I didn't totally buy-in to what I had written, it was simply an unlikely possibility. If you can't apply it in the midst of a highly emotional situation and actually believe the alternative thought, then what's the use? I think normal people can skip to rational thought much faster than us. And I think that they can actually BELIEVE something other than 'it's my fault'.

With respect to abandonment specifically, I think that normal people don't have the history of repeated abandonment to magnify their reactions. They can handle being on their own and be perfectly happy. If a friendship does not work out, it's no skin off their nose because there are plenty of others out there for them to interact with. They are not so desperate for human interaction so although they may be sad that a friendship is broken, it does not affect them as much as it would affect us. Or if you are in a relationship with them, they can handle being apart for a week or two as opposed to our (my) immediate feeling of abandonment about 10 seconds after they say good-bye.

Something I try to remember for myself is to 'own the middle ground'. As in 'Don't be apathetic, don't bury the emotion simply because it is too painful. But on the other hand, don't let it take over. Try to find a middle ground and avoid the extremes, the 'black and white'. Live in the grey zone. I think that's where normal people live.

[Bakerinv]

I am here at this forum, mostly reading rather than posting, to try to understand people with BPD, as I seem to continue to find myself in relationships with men who suffer from this illness. I don't consider myself "normal," as opposed to any of you. (what is normal, anyway?) As I am trying to detach from my friend/boyfriend who has BPD, I am trying to do so in the least destructive way possible. But it seems whatever I do just enrages him. As for what I have read so far, it is true I don't feel a need for others to validate me. It's nice and welcomed, but I already feel validated. As for abandonment, I generally just cut people out if they leave me. I can feel very close to people I work with for a long time, but when they move on, generally I close that chapter in my mind. The only exception has been the death of my mother. Now, THAT was something I thought I would never get over. I hope this helps someone, as you are all helping me.

[Vibe]

Originally Posted by athena2011

I agree with what Stratocaster and Cbox had to say. Also...I think that we simply over-react. We FEEL things much more strongly, so much so that it impedes rational thought. My emotions are so overwhelming that CBT did not work for me. I could not stop in the situation and apply a rational thought process. I could only apply it in hindsight as part of my 'CBT homework' and even then I didn't totally buy-in to what I had written, it was simply an unlikely possibility. If you can't apply it in the midst of a highly emotional situation and actually believe the alternative thought, then what's the use? I think normal people can skip to rational thought much faster than us. And I think that they can actually BELIEVE something other than 'it's my fault'.

I kind of know what you mean. Once I go off, I'm just gone, and it's gonna take a heck of a lot to bring me back to reality.

I've learned to be really mindful though, and sometimes I can see the really bad moments coming shortly before they hit. Then I can separate myself from the situation and work on myself. This doesn't always work and sometimes I'm blind sided, but it is a lot better than trying to apply techniques in the middle of an episode.

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by Vibe

I kind of know what you mean. Once I go off, I'm just gone, and it's gonna take a heck of a lot to bring me back to reality.

I've learned to be really mindful though, and sometimes I can see the really bad moments coming shortly before they hit. Then I can separate myself from the situation and work on myself. This doesn't always work and sometimes I'm blind sided, but it is a lot better than trying to apply techniques in the middle of an episode.

I think this is a really good idea. Anticipate likely problems before they arise and have a plan to deal with them. The only problem I see is that the fear of something bad happening sometimes causes it to actually happen. A more common example everybody can relate to is stage-fright.

Originally Posted by Uprwestsdr

I had these issues at one time. It helps to realize: FEELINGS AREN'T FACTS. In other words you may feel abandon but it is unlikely you have been abandoned. Little children can be abandoned but adults can't. Most often (for me) it is about someone else doing what they need to do. If you're serious about getting past this painful reaction, don't say anything. Call a friend or sponsor and run this by him/her to check reality. Unfortunately it takes discipline to get this disease under control.

I have no one I can talk to in person. Rely on PC for getting my feelings out there. Can't talk. Hoping this will change, but it's the way things are for now.

Originally Posted by cboxpalace

I'm really surprised that people appear to have a hard time answering this, because it does seem quite logical to me. They have

1. confidence
2. stable, healthy and more functional emotions
3. It's a natural progression of life, and lives change.
4. We often thing because we react/feel a certain way if they don't react the same way then it doesn't bother them



I highly doubt any of them are saying good riddance. It's a natural progression in life when there comes a time that we ALL have to part ways and say our good byes. When we leave school, change jobs, or move we change and new people enter our lives. The situation has changed. There's been a few occasions where I've tried to reestablish communication with people I went to school with, and almost always it's never really successful. My life is different and so is theirs. We no longer have what we had in common with one another. They don't cease all social contact, and become hermits. It's quite the opposite their life has changed and new interactions with people have developed.

I coach kids sports and it's always hard to say good bye to a lot of my players at the end of the season. I spent a Summer developing their talent, coaching them and developing relationships with them and some of the other parents. At the end of the season it's time to say good bye. I'm no longer their coach. I don't like and I'm sure on some level neither do they if they had fun, but that's the way it is.. It's life.

Also, we tend to read into situations and assume we know what people think and/or feel because if they don't react in the same we do then they must not care.

I quoted a thread I wrote from another forum. It can be found here http://forums.psychcentral.com/showt...=246594&page=3 on page 3 towards the bottom titled "Checking our Motives" and also quite a bit here http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=226749. Dubble Monkey is incorrect. They don't EXPECT, we do. We put a lot of emphasis on people and do things for them and then EXPECT them to do the same or something similar in return, and when they don't we crash. It applies to probably everything where we have an expectation out of others. What we do for others has to be because we WANT to do that and be prepared to expect nothing in return. If we can't do that then it's best not to do it. What we perceive to be an important gesture of care/friendship may not hold that same importance to whoever, just like what they do for us may be important to them and not hold the same importance. This does relate to what is being discussed here because you have this thought process of I feel this way so it's logical they must feel this way and because they don't (which is your assumption) you must not be of value to them or they must not care. It's you that has an EXPECTATION of similar reactions. It's important to change your mindset to it really sucks and hurt saying good bye to people, and you react to that by crying. Then tell yourself THEY probably feel a similar way and hate to see this part of their life over, and because they don't react the same as you doesn't mean it doesn't bother them what it means is they react differently to the same situation, but FEEL similar emotions.

Logically, I guess I get it, but it's part of that radical acceptance. Not everyone is like you, thinks the same, and not accepting causes pain and suffering.

Originally Posted by cboxpalace

Have you looked at the website www.dbtselfhelp.com? If you haven't take a look. It's the dbt program online and it's free. This change doesn't happen right away... It's a matter of catching yourself thinking like that and then reacting in a different way.

Dbt has helped me with things that I can anticipate like what I just described above. Unfortunately, it hasn't helped with interpersonal relationships and in areas where I accomplish something and feeling nothing... I really don't have much hope in those areas when it feels like their is a piece of me that is missing..

I have checked that site out, thank you C. I have found it extremely useful. I've successfully applied some of the distress tolerance module,mostly from a DBT workbook.

The work really needs to be done, yes. This brings me back to my feeling that a person really needs that 'gift of desparation' to change. Much like an alcoholic or drug addict, a person with BPD may have to experience rock bottom before trying to implement change and really working the DBT program with all their effort. For me I had to come to a place of complete depression , self-loathing and acceptance of my disorder to even consider 'changing'.

Also, I like what you had to say athena, I think you're right. "Normal" people don't need others as much. Again, it has to do with our constant need for approval, reassurance and validation because we lack that within us to do for ourselves.

I do not however, think, that DBT helps us to do this entirely. We've talked about it in other threads before about not having core and essential developmental pieces. DBT does help regulate emotions and our behavior but it may not necessarily fit those core pieces in or create them for us? What are your thoughts?

I can deal with the student issue. Don't like it but I know how to cope, it's one of those things that CAN be anticipated. But, like C-Box, I can't anticipate in interpersonal relationships, so they're doomed to failure before they even start, and I know of no way around that. Better to avoid than be heartbroken and suffer the feeling of abandonment, whether real or perceived, time after time.

You can't anticipate in interpersonal relationships. Care to expand on that, mara? I'm trying to understand. I'm wondering if I do this, too. Can't anticipate the other's feelings? Or can't anticipate your own reaction to what they're saying/doing?

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by Maranara

I can deal with the student issue. Don't like it but I know how to cope, it's one of those things that CAN be anticipated. But, like C-Box, I can't anticipate in interpersonal relationships, so they're doomed to failure before they even start, and I know of no way around that. Better to avoid than be heartbroken and suffer the feeling of abandonment, whether real or perceived, time after time.

Something I stumbled into in my current relationship is to send an e-mail to my BF to tell him what I am feeling that I don't seem to be able to say face to face. I have written mostly good things because that's how I feel around him. But actually 'writing' to him makes the feelings that much more powerful and less likely to be forgotten, minimized or deadened over time which is the usual course for me. It's wonderful when he responds in kind, even if not quite with the same intensity - because it lets me know where I stand, I guess it's like a form of validation as in "we're good, I'm not about to take off." If I do say something bad, (for example something I'm disappointed about - usually something to do with his aloofness, kind of a 'come over, don't come over, I'm fine either way' attitude.) he gets it, picks up on the fact that this is a big deal for me and is willing to discuss it further. Writing it helps me because I can set the tone properly so that he doesn't get defensive.

So anyway, my point is that sometimes relationship issues can be dealt with in writing better than face to face, especially if one tends to get worked up about things and 'loses their head' as I do when actually facing the person. It's like I forget 90% of the English lanquage and can barely talk - because face to face discussions of anything that the other person does that makes me feel bad results in them getting defensive, attacking, blaming me, saying I'm totally out to lunch, pointing out my flaws etc etc and ultimately results in me hating the person.

I know your post was about 'anticipating' the actions of another so I will try to relate why this came up for me. I try to get a sense of where I stand before I see the person again. This helps me anticipate how things will go. What I fear (lack of reciprocation, boredom, abandonment) does not have to be dealt with or worried about if it is not there. Of course, a non-validating response back would be a problem but I would at least expect it to be more civilized and hopefully less damaging.

[cboxpalace]

I'll gladly answer this. If I know in advance that we're going to have a conflict over something the opportunity is there to cope ahead. Here is a super simple and stupid example of an anticipated event. We make plans to go to the movies. I know you REALLY want to see this chick flick, but I want to see an action adventure movie. I know you really hate action adventure movies and I really really hate chick flicks.. I know in advance there is potential for conflict. I can mentally prepare myself in advance on how to cope with the frustration.. I KNOW there is potential for conflict, I can anticipate it, I can cope ahead (<--- DBT). ie. of coping ahead 1. Maybe I cancel... 2.. Maybe I suggest something else, like going to dinner 3.. Maybe I'm able to sit through a movie I don't like 4. Maybe I suggest you pay if we see your movie and I'll pay if we see mine..

(In Mara's example about saying goodbye to students.. I hate saying goodbye, I'm going to be sad, I'm going to cry.. I'm going to do opposite action.. when I get home I'm going to watch a comedy or I'm going to take myself out to dinner or go buy myself something nice etc.)

Now for an unanticipated event. We make plans to go see an action / adventure movie. I love these.. We plan this in advance.. You know I hate chick flicks, but you LOVE them... You told me that we would go see this action / adventure movie that I've been dying to see. You buy the tickets in advance, we meet at the theater, and you give me a ticket to the chick flick. I fly off the handle. It's an unanticipated conflict that I can't deal with in the moment. Now I verbally destroy you.

I do NOT have the opportunity to cope ahead because I can't anticipate this. You sprung this on me out of the blue. I'm not going to write you an email, like athena suggests, because my emotions are going to go off the chart. You are going to feel my rage.

Like I said, very simple but you should get the idea..

[cboxpalace]

Athena, you and I have been round and round on this before and we're probably never going to agree on this. I think how bpd affects you is quite different than how it affects me.

From what I gather is you keep your mouth shut rather than rage or express some other inappropriate emotion when there is unexpected/unanticipated conflict. Then you decide later to write an email. That is the ONLY possible explanation that I can think of. When it comes to this you and I are talking about apples and oranges.

Because, in the example I gave above about going to the movies..

Now for an unanticipated event. We make plans to go see an action / adventure movie. I love these.. We plan this in advance.. You know I hate chick flicks, but you LOVE them... You told me that we would go see this action / adventure movie that I've been dying to see. You buy the tickets in advance, we meet at the theater, and you give me a ticket to the chick flick. I fly off the handle. It's an unanticipated conflict that I can't deal with in the moment.

Your approach seems to be to suck it up and go to the movie that was SPRUNG on you, and then deal with it in an email later. It seems you have some reasonable control over your emotions. If that is the case then that would be closer to "normal" functioning. When I'm in an unanticipated event I don't have that same control, so addressing something in an email is not an option for me, unless I'm apologizing later.

Originally Posted by athena2011

Something I stumbled into in my current relationship is to send an e-mail to my BF to tell him what I am feeling that I don't seem to be able to say face to face. I have written mostly good things because that's how I feel around him. But actually 'writing' to him makes the feelings that much more powerful and less likely to be forgotten, minimized or deadened over time which is the usual course for me. It's wonderful when he responds in kind, even if not quite with the same intensity - because it lets me know where I stand, I guess it's like a form of validation as in "we're good, I'm not about to take off." If I do say something bad, (for example something I'm disappointed about - usually something to do with his aloofness, kind of a 'come over, don't come over, I'm fine either way' attitude.) he gets it, picks up on the fact that this is a big deal for me and is willing to discuss it further. Writing it helps me because I can set the tone properly so that he doesn't get defensive.

Here's where I disagree with you, because you've mentioned to me before that his aloofness bothers you and can make you feel uncomfortable. It's here that you should be trying to work on coping ahead or overcome those feelings by challenging yourself NOT to write the emails. Your process seems to be He's aloof --> makes you uncomfortable because your emotions are probably telling you something that isn't true --> you need to write email to address what you're feeling and wait for him to give you reassurance. The fact you have to do that is somewhat dysfunctional because you do have to rely on him to tell you everything is ok when nothing was wrong to begin with. It's your thought process that is whacked. Whatever that emotion is that you feel when he is aloof is what you need to work at overcoming. Rather than his aloofness telling you that he's going to leave you (which is an assumption driven by an emotion) you ought to be working at changing your mindset to be .. he's aloof, it doesn't mean he's leaving me. You know this because he never said he was going to leave you, he's just being aloof.. (that mindset is based on fact).

You work on this NOW!! By telling yourself the next time you feel uncomfortable because you're perceiving him to be aloof... that you're going to reassure yourself of the FACTS. The facts are he did not tell you that he is going to abandon you. You are not going to worry over this because there is nothing to worry about UNTIL there is something to worry about.. Question yourself is your thinking based on fact/rational or is it based on what your emotions are telling you?

So anyway, my point is that sometimes relationship issues can be dealt with in writing better than face to face, especially if one tends to get worked up about things and 'loses their head' as I do when actually facing the person. It's like I forget 90% of the English lanquage and can barely talk - because face to face discussions of anything that the other person does that makes me feel bad results in them getting defensive, attacking, blaming me, saying I'm totally out to lunch, pointing out my flaws etc etc and ultimately results in me hating the person.

You're talking about Anticipated conflict and not Unanticipated conflict.

I know your post was about 'anticipating' the actions of another so I will try to relate why this came up for me. I try to get a sense of where I stand before I see the person again. This helps me anticipate how things will go. What I fear (lack of reciprocation, boredom, abandonment) does not have to be dealt with or worried about if it is not there. Of course, a non-validating response back would be a problem but I would at least expect it to be more civilized and hopefully less damaging.

You're not anticipating anything, because you're relying on his response to your email to give you a guidance. You send email.. ie..

You seemed aloof and I'm thinking your going to leave me..
His response --- No, I'm not going to leave you..

or

You seemed aloof and I'm thinking your going to leave me..
His responses --- Yes, I'm going to leave you because things don't seem to be working out.. It's not you , it's me...

What is there to anticipate??.. He said he's not going to leave you. You can anticipate a good time.. He said that he's going to leave you... You can probably anticipate it's going to be a weird and awkward experience when you meet. In that situation you could cope ahead in how you will deal with those emotions when you do meet.

it means nothing to them