I'm just wondering how many people on the BPD forum are dx'd or suspicious of having aspergers also? Is this a rare combination or is it common?

I took the Aspie Quiz here http://rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php
Aspie Score: 129 of 200
Neurotypical score: 73 of 200.
It said "you are very likely an aspie"

Not satisfied with just that, I also took the Cambridge autism spectrum quotient test. On that one I scored a 35. Interpreting from this score it says

"32+ Is the official criteria for having Aspergers Syndrome. "

Having two children that are diagnosed aspergers is what made me wonder because a lot of what my son's going through in school is what I dealt with as a child along with having many of the traits.

Anyway are there any others here that are BPD but also either think they are aspies or have been dx'ed as such?

Just curious.

[Atypical_Disaster]

I have a friend that has strong BPD traits and strong Asperger's traits but she hasn't been officially diagnosed with either one even though she's contemplated that she may have both.

Haven't really gave it much thought but I do have a daughter with Asperger's.

Sorry for bringing this thread back up after so long. But I suspect I might have Aspergers. I took the test and scored 133.

[BrokenNBeautiful]

One of the therapists I used to see thought I had it. along with bpd, although at the time she did not want to say bpd.

[yellowfrog268]

Just took the same quiz. Scored 142 (results say--You are very likely an Aspie)

I wonder if some of the BPD traits are also found with Aspies.

[Ultra Darkness]

A few weeks ago I was told that I seemed to have Asperger's traits, and I took that test. I got 123.

I need to take the test.

I can say this much.....many of the overt traits do overlap. Anger, interpreting other's facial expressions or tone of voice, inability to socialize...they can do the chameleon on the surface but not too deep and can give themselves away, self hatred, and suicidal thoughts are often in both. The last two are usually caused when they realize they are different. Most Aspies think differently (obviously) but don't realize they do and it can come as a blow when it hits them.

Originally Posted by Maranara

I need to take the test.

I can say this much.....many of the overt traits do overlap. Anger, interpreting other's facial expressions or tone of voice, inability to socialize...they can do the chameleon on the surface but not too deep and can give themselves away, self hatred, and suicidal thoughts are often in both. The last two are usually caused when they realize they are different. Most Aspies think differently (obviously) but don't realize they do and it can come as a blow when it hits them.

Lol...it said I was too inconsistent on too many of the control questions. I'll try again later, when I'm not trying to do two things at once.

I just did the test too, I scored 142 out of 200 this has surprised me

[Ultra Darkness]

We all seem to be scoring high, don't we?

I wonder if there's any kind of connection or if the tests are based too much on personality traits? Everyone should try the Cambridge AQ test. I think it's more "official"

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

I wonder if there's any kind of connection or if the tests are based too much on personality traits? Everyone should try the Cambridge AQ test. I think it's more "official"

Here's a link to the Cambridge test for people too lazy to look it up.

The AQ-test

I still haven't successfully taken the other one. I did take the Autism/Asperger's test here on PC. It said that a score above 32 that Autism was likely and I scored a 39.

Biggest difference between Asperger's and BPD, from what I understand, is Asperger's have a very hard time with imagination. As a general rule, they prefer nonfiction over fiction big time. They enjoy things such as maps and blueprints because it is black and white right in front of them. They enjoy cause/effect situations and will often do one to produce the other. They do get in to repetitive hand motions and picking at things. They are very literal and have problems doing things like paraphrasing or coming up with creative stories or picking up nuances in stories. Also, because of this, they will often take things you say literally and have issues with figures of speech, but like anyone else, will learn at least the common ones over time. My son has a lot of difficulties with fact/opinion unless it can be directly seen.

BPDs have a tendancy of misinterpreting facial expressions; we have a tendancy of believing anything negative is directed towards us. Asperger's on the other hand have a hard time reading all but the more blatant facial expressions. For that reason, they often have expressionless faces. They "learn" the most common expressions to use and will use them correctly, but they often don't mean much. When they don't think people are watching, the expression will instantly vanish.

They are keen for details such as numbers and quickly pick up small errors, and are often sticklers for time. As a teacher, if I made an error on the board, my Aspies would instantly correct me. My son used to panic when we were in a store near closing.

I know all of these aren't going to pertain to every Asperger's any more than we're all alike, but my son is Asperger's and I've had the opportunity to work with my share in the classroom.

Sorry for the minature diatribe (word of the day).

[yellowfrog268]

I don't know if this is allowed but I sure would love to hear from the doc's or therapists who are involved with this site on this issue. Just a general post about similarities, differences, can a person have both, and if there is any connection between the two.

What do ya'll think?

At least 4 of us BPDers have children with diagnosed Asperger's. That in itself is an interesting fact. That might be a cool poll question.

I don't really think there is a connection between the two, but maybe there is.

I scored 34 on the test you gave the link to Maranara.

[The_little_didgee]

This apparent correlation makes me wonder if coping behaviors like cutting are what differentiate BPD from Asperger's Syndrome (AS). Would removing self harm behaviors from the BPD diagnostic criteria change this? I ask this because BPD describes a set of coping behaviors that many people without BPD use.

Self harm is not unique to BPD.

The similarities between BPD and AS are superficial. Apparent BPD traits, when explored in-depth, are easy to differentiate from AS, since the motivation behind the behaviors are different. The interpersonal problems seen in both are quite different. An individual with AS finds socializing confusing and has difficulty reciprocating. Someone with BPD understands communication but it is their fears of abandonment and emotional lability that cause them trouble.

There are many psychiatric conditions that can resemble AS, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, social anxiety disorder, schizoid personality disorder, and PTSD. If the symptoms of AS were present in early childhood, then that person most likely has AS rather than a psychiatric disorder. Note: It is possible for an individual with AS to have a concurrent disorder.

AS is a cognitive style one is born with. BPD is thought to develop in adolescence and young adulthood as a consequence of growing up in an invalidating environment.

[Stay Beautiful]

I have just recently been diagnosed with both aspergers and BPD although this remains a very contriversial topic and open to much debate.

[yellowfrog268]

Originally Posted by Stay Beautiful

I have just recently been diagnosed with both aspergers and BPD although this remains a very contriversial topic and open to much debate.

Please tell us what the controversy is.

On virtually every Aspie quiz including the ones listed in this thread, I score as most likely an Aspie. However, I also see BPD traits in myself. I don't think I would qualify for a dx of BPD because I do not have one of the traits considered most essential to the dx, the clingy/push away feature. Also I have no intense fear of being alone. I know that this varies from person to person but from what I've read it's considered a big part of the dx.

I would be interested in hearing about why it would be controversial for a person to have both dx's.

[shortandcute]

It's probably more common than we realize--I'm just guessin' tho. I know that a lot of people with BPD also have other things going on, and I've heard of a lot of people on the spectrum who also have other issues; so, no, it would not surprise me.

[The_little_didgee]

This issue is deeply personal to me, because I was once diagnosed with BPD, at the age of 16. I am certain, I received the diagnosis because I did some minor self harm while on an SSRI that made me impulsive and suicidal.

A lot of my problems had to do with my inability to form friendships, maintain them and perspective thinking. I often wondered if I was a psychopath, because my feelings were off compared to anyone else. Often, I had none. Now, I know a lot of this was due to alexithymia.

I am a loner who does not fear abandonment, so I did not understand this trait and the need to always be in a relationship. This was a huge indicator to me the diagnosis was wrong. My family didn't agree with it, either. Another hint was from the psychiatrists. Many would tell me my problems were neurological rather than psychiatric. Autism came up many times during my hospital visits.

The only psychiatrists who gave me the BPD diagnosis worked in the inpatient service.

I get the impression, BPD is sometimes diagnosed based on how a (young) lady presents to psychiatric services. Anyone who is a frequent user of the Emergency department; has chronic suicidal thoughts; complains of emptiness and boredom; has erratic relationships (even if it is only with clinicians); and is angry seem to get the diagnosis. My psychiatrist concurs with this.

I went to an Asperger conference for women. A psychologist whose speciality is autism mentioned BPD is often diagnosed in women who have not been assessed for an autism spectrum disorder. She also said it is possible to have BPD with Asperger's.

It is important to get an assessment for Asperger's if you suspect it, because it is a 'way of being' or a cognitive style that has a profound effect on how an individual relates and interacts with others. We don't think like the majority. BPD treatment doesn't really account for this, which may explain the poor outcomes seen in therapy.

I am hoping the DSM-V will do a better job at diagnosing BPD rather than grouping a heterogenous group of people together in that diagnosis.

[Happy Camper]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

I get the impression, BPD is sometimes diagnosed based on how a (young) lady presents to psychiatric services. Anyone who is a frequent user of the Emergency department; has chronic suicidal thoughts; complains of emptiness and boredom; has erratic relationships (even if it is only with clinicians); and is angry seem to get the diagnosis. My psychiatrist concurs with this.

I agree that there is bias and rampant unprofessionalism in diagnostic procedures. I've read about so many people getting these half baked 5 minute psychiatric labels and then end up getting inadequate or totally inappropriate treatment. On a different forum there was a borderline male who originally got an aspergers diagnosis, and in your case it appears to be the reverse.

I too couldn't understand the fear of abandonment or clingy relationship mindset, but I think this in part had to do with my attitude towards other people and myself, not wanting to date or have anything to do with a relationship during my teens. I think I've developed some sort of secondary alexithymia in response to years of such brutal negative feelings, meaning it might not be neurological or otherwise for the same underlying reasons as in autism. I also thought I might be a psychopath or something like that due to emotional bluntness.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by Happy Camper

I agree that there is bias and rampant unprofessionalism in diagnostic procedures. I've read about so many people getting these half baked 5 minute psychiatric labels and then end up getting inadequate or totally inappropriate treatment.

This is very common. When this happens, it is best to run! The consequences of a misdiagnosis can be costly.

Originally Posted by Happy Camper

I too couldn't understand the fear of abandonment or clingy relationship mindset, but I think this in part had to do with my attitude towards other people and myself, not wanting to date or have anything to do with a relationship during my teens.

Sometimes, individuals with Aspergers are pestered so much, they don't want to be around others.

Some people with Asperger's like being around others, a lot. They are able to socialize. Some do it well. I like people, but I can't socialize and be around them all the time. It is too much. I need breaks and a lot of alone time to recover. This didn't suddenly show up in my adolescence, I was always like this, even when I was a young child.

There are definitely individual differences in the manifestation of Aspergers, but there are similarities, such as impaired theory of mind and literal mindedness.

Other Asperger traits are: trouble recognizing faces (prosopagnosia), hyper/hypo senses, obsessions, perseveration, auditory processing difficulties, and circadian rhythm disorders.

A lot of people with Aspergers have anxiety disorders, depression and some are even susceptible to psychosis.

-----

Another reason, I questioned the BPD diagnosis: I never had impulsive behaviors like substance abuse, eating disorders, and so on.

[Happy Camper]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

There are definitely individual differences in the manifestation of Aspergers, but there are similarities, such as impaired theory of mind and literal mindedness.

Other Asperger traits are: trouble recognizing faces (prosopagnosia), hyper/hypo senses, obsessions, perseveration, auditory processing difficulties, and circadian rhythm disorders.

A lot of people with Aspergers have anxiety disorders, depression and some are even susceptible to psychosis.

-----

Another reason, I questioned the BPD diagnosis: I never had impulsive behaviors like substance abuse, eating disorders, and so on.

Ugh I've always found group settings very draining. I had literal mindedness growing up, probably a lot more than just being a kid that didn't understand the meaning behind something--I still have this a little bit, but I think it's mostly gone away. I've always had language and auditory peculiarities, sometimes I just can't process what I hear and cannot repeat dialogue at all unless I chunk the words together (sounds and looks unnatural).
Circadian rhythm disorders...do you know something about me I don't?
I've never slept right regardless of what I do. Chronic insomnia all of my life and I absolutely hate how much time it has wasted. I fall asleep around 3 to 5 am these days, often by the time the sun is back up. Anxiety problems, yep. Have always had trouble with eye contact because it's so intense for me.

I know having an obsession is part of autism but isn't it very specific? I get very interested in specific topics, learn a great deal about them and can retain almost everything I read about them, but I move on or am not always actively learning or thinking about something. I've always felt socially "off" and wired differently, but I can emulate most social interactions and appear normal. Sometimes I even enjoy or desire social settings under the right circumstances. I probably sound like a hypochondriac, but autism has been in my mind for years. I'm getting a neuro psych test to straighten out my bipolar diagnosis (among other things), and I'm petrified they're going to tell me that I'm autistic and am another case of someone who slipped through the cracks for 20 years. I don't think I could handle it, it bothers me almost as much as the thought of being schizophrenic.

Realistically I think I'm probably on the autistic spectrum more than most people, but I pray it's not diagnostically relevant or a large part of why I am the way I am. It makes a frightening bit of sense but an abnormal neuro-cognitive makeup absolutely terrifies me and makes me feel literally sick to my stomach. It reaffirms so much of my thoughts about this being permanent and not a temporary problem like everyone keeps saying. I mean is it normal for a preschooler to sense something extremely different about themselves on the inside and have that feeling persist all throughout life?
I mentioned to my pdoc I've had problems all my life, quite literally, and he responded "we all have problems....bla bla remember it's a temproary problem bla bla". I know he was trying to give me some perspective and say that no one's life is perfect, but I felt so damn trivialized and invalidated. I hate it when they don't understand what I'm saying!

Sorry about rambling, your post just struck a major chord with me.