[IGotThis]

So I am having a really really hard time today.... Both my main support person (referred to as "L" from now on) and my T keep telling me I need to start taking control.... Every time I try to take control of something, one or both of them throw a bunch of limits on me, so I basically have no control.

I've already had L asking for more space, and I am really trying to give her that. But the one thing I tried to give her on my own without her requiring it like she has in the past, she changed to what she wanted... It really shouldn't be a big deal, but it's just the fact that I offered to give her one night a week where she doesn't have to worry about me or talk to me at all (I know it doesn't seem like much, but it's huge when since I've started talking to her and trusting her, I've been terrified she won't be there when I need her)... But I had asked that she ask if I am okay with giving that night up, and if I say no, ask again the next day, with the only requirement being that I have to give her at least one day... And she agreed to it when I first brought it up... But then she went back on it and said she didn't listen and now I have to change what I am okay with because she didn't listen... But she's the one that's in control. Not me....

When am I going to be allowed to have control over my own life?! When am I going to he able to set my own limits? When is my T going to stop telling me to just not talk to L at all? When will they stop pulling away from me? When will I stop being the defective one?

I have no answers, but I feel for you

[Fuzzybear]

[Angel of Bedlam]

Setting boundaries is so incredibly hard! And it's even harder when you set them and you're ignored. Hang in there, its definitely not easy but it is possible.

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[IGotThis]

It's just so dang frustrating when I have to follow everything they say or they'll just drop me like a hot potato, but when they don't follow literally the one thing I ask, I get "sorry kiddo" from L, and "well, you have a choice, accept it or just talk to other people" from my T... How come they get to set limits, but I don't?

[Angel of Bedlam]

Ask them. And how do you know they'll drop you. L may be a little controlling it kind of sounds like, have you talked about that with her? Maybe that would help, then try setting your boundary. Maybe she doesn't really realize what she's doing and confronting her (in a way that is not aggressive) will make L more open to your needs.

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[atomicc]

I understand the feeling but Angel has a point. How do you know they will drop you? I know I often feel that friends and family will leave me for any little thing I do wrong but I am beginning to learn that is the BPD talking and not an actual reality. I'm sorry your friend isn't there like you need her to be. :/ I wish I could offer up more advice. Maybe don't drop L but see if you can find others who will give you support as well when she's not feeling up to it?

[IGotThis]

I asked, and L is still working on getting back to me (our communication setup is less than efficient- she replies to emails once a day, and all important/ long lasting things go into emails), T just says I need to work off of L's limits before I start setting my own... And I like to think its the BPD talking, but when "I don't want to leave you, but if I don't get some space, I will have to" has come into the conversation multiple times with L (also, let me add in that her husband has some crazy anxiety issues that he tends to take out on her, specifically regarding me, so she is stuck between her husband and me), and "we need to talk about getting you in here to see me less" comes up every time I see my T, it's hard to not feel like they are just gonna drop me... And my T keeps saying "I can't help you if you're not willing to try what I ask" even though I am doing everything she's asked to the best of my ability...

As far as not dropping L, I wasn't planning on it... She has been the one solid support person I've had... I am working on going to other people, but I feel like I'm bogging everyone down with everything, and the people I'm going to seem to not care after the first few times of talking to them... I feel like they all see me as the boy who cried wolf... But I'm not. Every time I've felt like driving my car of the side of the road, or taking way too many pain killers, I was serious... But since I went to them and they stopped me before I could act on it, they seem to think I wasn't... It's hard, because L is literally the only person who doesn't seem to think that, and who listens when new things happens, and who listens when old things come up again...

[allme]

[Angel of Bedlam]

Well I can totally understand feeling like your T is going to drop you by what they said (I'd feel that way), I'm sure that's not what they meant. Have you tried writing your thoughts down before therapy? It may help you organize your thoughts and give you a little anxiety relief by having that as kind of a way to back you up. Have you told your T you're trying and asked for some different options or told them how you feel when they say that?

It's good L has been there for you through everything and you have that outlet, have you thought of sitting down with L and her husband to relieve some of the stress on the relationship? I think working on the limits L sets is important (learning limits is hard) but your needs can't be ignored... you'll eventually explode. I had a really hard time setting limits at first with my boyfriend so we sat down and actually created a schedule for when we'd see each other. I was anxious about it at first causr I thought it'd give us less time, but it's been very helpful. I don't know the full situation, but those are just some ideas.

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[IGotThis]

I've tried talking to my T about it, but it get really anxious about it because the last time I tried, she said "well you're just not doing it right"...

I have actually asked to sit down and have a conversation with just him, to try and figure things out and maybe get him to hate me less, but he won't... He doesn't want anything to do with me... He doesn't even want me around their daughter in other situations (she is 3, and absolutely adorable, and L brings her to different events for dance like recital, and a different teacher's baby shower)... It's ridiculous, honestly... But then I don't want to add onto it by complaining about him to her...

I really don't have too much trouble with the limits she's already set... Sure they suck, and I by no means like them, but I can handle them... But since she's been the puppeteer through all of them, I tried to take back the strings and move on my own, but when I went a small step in the direction she wanted, she snatched them back and ran with it... I don't want to keep having her pull the strings, but as it stands now, I just feel so trapped, because I can't move them anywhere other than where she wants anyways....

[IGotThis]

I already had a mini explosion over it the other day, and her response was "I don't have anything to say that won't make this worse other than I'm sorry, and I feel like I'm giving up a lot too... I know this isn't what you wanted, but it's the best I've got... Sorry kiddo"....

For the record, L had been my dance teacher for the last 5 years, and this year she doesn't teach my groups, but she let me stick with her for a solo... She is like my second mom... That does play a pretty significant role in the relationship and how things work...

[Angel of Bedlam]

I get it. Have you told her how you feel about the nature of the relationship is affecting you? That it's making you feel like a puppet? Sometimes (and here's something I'm doing in DBT), the best way to phrase your statement is:

1.) I think.

Example: I think we have a strong bond but lately the nature of our relationship has been that of a puppeteer and a puppet.

2.) I feel.

Example: I feel frustrated/angry/sad/hurt.

3.) I want.

Example: I want us to figure out a solution to this that makes us both feel fulfilled and improves the bond we made.

It's a way to make an assertive request but also gives you the opportunity to work with her toward finding a solution. I'm not sure if it'll work but that has been helpful for me.

How long have you been seeing your T btw?

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[IGotThis]

Originally Posted by Angel of Bedlam

I get it. Have you told her how you feel about the nature of the relationship is affecting you? That it's making you feel like a puppet? Sometimes (and here's something I'm doing in DBT), the best way to phrase your statement is:

1.) I think.

Example: I think we have a strong bond but lately the nature of our relationship has been that of a puppeteer and a puppet.

2.) I feel.

Example: I feel frustrated/angry/sad/hurt.

3.) I want.

Example: I want us to figure out a solution to this that makes us both feel fulfilled and improves the bond we made.

It's a way to make an assertive request but also gives you the opportunity to work with her toward finding a solution. I'm not sure if it'll work but that has been helpful for me.

How long have you been seeing your T btw?

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I have said all of these things, just not all on the same message... Does it make a difference whether they are together or not? They have all been about the same topic (again, our communication plan is ridiculously ineffective), just not tied in into one single message....

I've met my T in May, but I went into the hospital that same week, and I didn't get back to her until July since we had to work around outpatient group therapy at the hospital... So about 3 months... Why?

[Angel of Bedlam]

I was just thinking that of you'd been seeing her for years it'd make sense for her to be frustrated if you've made no progress but it seems like her patience is lacking (I don't know the situation fully though).

Try saying the 3 all together in that order (that's how my DBT book says to structure it). You can also lay out what will happen if L is unwilling to work with you:

Example: If you won't work with me to find a solution, I will have to distance myself (something like that).

I would suggest writing it down beforehand to give you a chance to really organize what you want to say. You could also try doing that with your T as well and tell them that you are making an assertive request.

I am no therapist (obviously) but hope that maybe even a teeny bit of what I've said helps. Seriously can understand your frustrations with everything. I'd be pulling my hair out if I were you.

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[IGotThis]

Originally Posted by Angel of Bedlam

I was just thinking that of you'd been seeing her for years it'd make sense for her to be frustrated if you've made no progress but it seems like her patience is lacking (I don't know the situation fully though).

Try saying the 3 all together in that order (that's how my DBT book says to structure it). You can also lay out what will happen if L is unwilling to work with you:

Example: If you won't work with me to find a solution, I will have to distance myself (something like that).

I would suggest writing it down beforehand to give you a chance to really organize what you want to say. You could also try doing that with your T as well and tell them that you are making an assertive request.

I am no therapist (obviously) but hope that maybe even a teeny bit of what I've said helps. Seriously can understand your frustrations with everything. I'd be pulling my hair out if I were you.

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I don't know if it's her patience lacking or mine, honestly....

My problem with that is that while I know I can survive without her, our whole issue is that she is asking for more space than I am able to give her right now.... It would completely defeat the purpose of my argument to go about it that way, which is why I feel so trapped with this.... I honestly don't have a choice....

This conversation has actually helped me a lot... Thank you....

[Angel of Bedlam]

No problem! I am glad to help. You will find a way to piece this all together, I know it.

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[IGotThis]

Now it's just a matter of getting L to work with me so I can.

[Angel of Bedlam]

So ling as you remember you are in control of you, I think you can do it.

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I know how it feels to not be in control. A year and a half ago that was me. Everyone assumed that I could not think for myself or even take responsibility of myself so they decided they would. It ruined relationships with my friends, family and especially my boyfriend. But it took a lot to get through to them that I needed to take control otherwise I would have ended up hating them all for good! There were many arguments and took a good couple of months before I could regain control of my own life. There are still times now when I am not fully in control but as soon as I notice this I speak out about what I want and need before it gets too far again.

My advice to you is to just keep pushing the point that you need to be making the decisions, you need to be able to take control. The more L hears it the more she will accept, hopefully.

I know how frustrating it is, just hang in there. It will happen

I empathize with how you feell. I used to be terribly afraid that my best friend would trade me in for another friend. This is in part why she stopped speaking to me for 2 whole years.
You have more control than you realize. The thing is, you cannot control others. This I learned the hard way. I know it's hard, but once you back off her a bit you will be pleasantly surprised at how things actually get better not worse like you fear.
If you need a friend who gets it I'm here. I pretty much have no life due to being a stay at home mom, so I will try to be here to talk whenever you need someone to listen. I know you may not know me, but I am here. When I was first Dx with BPD it helped tramendacly to know people were there for me and that I wasn't alone, even online.

[IGotThis]

It's not that I'm not backing off... It's that I'm sprinting backwards as fast as I possibly can for her, but she keeps pushing for more. Every time I take one step, she makes me take another... I just need a break here and there... When I first talked to her about everything going on, she said "it took you a long time to get to this point, so it'll take a long time getting you back, but I'll be here" but I feel like going at my speed isn't an option for her, because like Secret said, the more she knows, the more she seems to think I can't take care of myself... But then she complains that I say she has control.... I am fine knowing that one day, I won't be talking to her much, and know that doesn't mean that I can't... But for now, I need to baby step my way out of it, because I don't have enough people yet who I am comfortable talking to when she's gone... It's just hard when she says "I'll be here through it" and "I'm not leaving," but then keeps doing everything she can to pull away... I'm trying to not latch onto her tighter, but it is so terribly hard for me not to...

The thing is, she really has been like a second mom to me, and even for a while like my first mom since mine's been really sick and is dealing with her own issues... But now that she's pulling away like she is, I don't have that.... We used to have time to sit and talk after class, and she's the one who helped me to let go of the happy face a bit... If I started crying, she would hold me and mess with my hair until I was done... When I had to go into the hospital, she picked me up at 10 o'clock at night, drove me to the ER, and stayed with me all night so I wouldn't be alone... Even in the ER, she let me sleep with my head on her shoulder, and she messed with my hair.... But we don't have time to talk after class anymore... That's one of her limits.... I talked to her a bit more this Monday, but when I leaned on her shoulder, she got up and got ready to leave... I end up crying alone in the car while I'm driving home, which is what I did every day last year before I started talking to her, and it's hard not feeling like I'm going back there... It's really hard knowing that all of that is just gone... And I don't have anyone else who has done that for me...

I know you don't want to go back to crying alone every day, I did this nearly every day at one point in my life.
and I agree that she may be pushing you beyond what you can handle.
My advice is if she wants 3 steps back, take 5. Of course you will need support to do this, which is why I offered to be here for you even though you don't quite know me yet. I know from experience it will be too hard and painful to do it alone.
but with support and time, I think you can change the dynamic of your relationship to fit both of your needs.
and even if you aren't comfortable making friends with me, finding someone you are comfortable getting to know would of course work as well.
It isn't just that you are in need, you also have a lot of friendship and caring to give, most of us BPD's do, you just need more people in your life to give it too because most non's can't handle so much emotion directed primarly at them.

[IGotThis]

I wish I knew how to stop... I hate being back here again...

My problem is that she asked for 3, I barely made it to 5 to try to make her happy, but she pushed me straight to 6...

I know somewhere there's a balance where we can both be happy, but finding it is turning out to be a pain in the *****.

I guess I never did answer you, huh? Yes, I would love to take you up on your offer....

I don't know if you have this problem, but when I try to talk to a bunch of people, I feel like nobody understands because they don't know everything that's going on. I hate being so all over the place in my head, better yet when I'm talking to people... L has been wonderful at helping me straighten out my thoughts.... I am just so scared that I won't have that when she's gone, and I'm gonna end up right back where I was...

Ah I see what your saying. You try to give her extra days and then she wants more right off. It's kind of invalidating. You were probably feeling pretty proud that you made it that long even though it was difacult, and then she just kind of... ruined it.
I do feel the way you do. That people don't know what's going on with me, that people don't understand the way I think/feel/act a times. and that people don't wanna be my friend because I am unlikable.
I know for us BPD's finding many friends to fill the void one friend is leaving simply isn't an option, your best bet would be to find one or two people who really get it, and who are there. Quality over quantity is best for us.
Well new friend, my name is Andra. It's nice to meet you.