Please note the question mark in my title. I'm initiating an open-ended discussion in which everyone is entitled to their opinion; I am not stating it as though it were a fact.

There are several reasons I'm asking this question, and this is my opinion (feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong):

- Men are not "allowed" to be expressive with emotions (e.g. crying, pouting), simply because of society's wonderful scripts, while women faced with the same situation may be able to seek potential help with an expression of their emotions. This is probably my biggest gripe with the world.
- Literature for men: Hahahahahahahhahahah ... I've spent the last 3 years of my life looking for a book that focuses on the unique challenges faced by male borderlines. I'm still looking. Yes, I know that 75% of borderlines are women, bla bla blue. I guess the remaining 25% should find a black hole to live in ?
- Related to the first point, male borderlines may be labeled as being "soft", "too nice", or even "gay" (nothing against gay folks, just saying it's not necessarily an accurate label), or whatever the heck else we don't deserve to be called, just because we express ourselves more than male nons.

Am I the only guy who feels this way ? Please tell me I'm not.

Gals, I'd love to hear your take on this as well.

Nons, sorry, I won't listen to a word you say.

[JadeAmethyst]

Well this hasn't been my experience with the males I have been in contact with. It could be also an age and cultural difference possibly. I would add the diagnosis of BPD isn't one size fits all, regardless of gender.

Jade

[shakespeare47]

I have some borderline traits, and I'm a pain in the ***. If anything, I overcompensate at times because of the trauma and pain I've experienced.
But, I do remember feeling really bad during a few breakups when I was in my 20's. And was laughed at by other men because I let them know it bothered me.

I think the reason there aren't many males that identify as BPD is because most males won't ask for help. They're out there drinking or using drugs or just putting everything into their work. They cause problems, refuse to take responsibility, then just tell everyone else to deal with it.

my 2c.

I did a search a while back on youtube, and found at least one video that dealt with borderlines and that also introduced some men who suffered from the disorder. I remember one in particular because his wife mentioned that he would cut himself.. and that it provided relief.

Originally Posted by shakespeare47

I have some borderline traits, and I'm a pain in the ***. If anything, I overcompensate at times because of the trauma and pain I've experienced.
But, I do remember feeling really bad during a few breakups when I was in my 20's. And was laughed at by other men because I let them know it bothered me.

I think the reason there aren't many males that identify as BPD is because most males won't ask for help. They're out there drinking or using drugs or just putting everything into their work. They cause problems, refuse to take responsibility, then just tell everyone else to deal with it.

my 2c.

I did a search a while back on youtube, and found at least one video that dealt with borderlines and that also introduced some men who suffered from the disorder. I remember one in particular because his wife mentioned that he would cut himself.. and that it provided relief.

Yes, so from whatever you've said, it sounds like you do (at least partially) agree that men admitting that they're borderlines can be tough.

You said "They cause problems, refuse to take responsibility, then just tell everyone else to deal with it.". Don't you think this is unfortunate ?

I saw the YouTube video you mentioned - Back from the edge. Great video !

Originally Posted by JadeAmethyst

Well this hasn't been my experience with the males I have been in contact with. It could be also an age and cultural difference possibly. I would add the diagnosis of BPD isn't one size fits all, regardless of gender.

Jade

True, it's not one size fits all ... totally agree. I also agree that culture does play a part. I grew up far from the US, and over there, it was more acceptable for men to cry than it is here, stateside. But, generally, I feel that men are supposed to put on this facade of strength and the superhuman ability to deal with all problems, and I hate that.

[shakespeare47]

Yes, it is unfortunate that more men don't get help. I don't know how that is ever going to change.

[shakespeare47]

Another problem with men is that they have this idea of what a real man is. For most men, their image is of a person who doesn't show emotion or weakness. If other men start to show signs of emotion or of what they decide is "weakness" then they will withdraw, because they don't want to "catch" whatever is wrong with the guy, and/or they don't want to be friends with someone with so many problems.

It's wrong, and it needs to change..

my 2c.

[widgets]

I think ALL men can identify with this in one way or another, that it's still socially unacceptable to show your emotions. Even non-bpd men find that they have to find other emotional outlets like violence, crime, excessive working or exercise, self harm, crime or drugs and alcohol.

I am female but had an in depth conversation about the gender demographics of BPD... I think BPD traits are very female, i know that non bpd females tend to understand and relate to the specific symptoms I have, even if it's not a struggle for them... I also think that BPD is under diagnosed in men because of the way they express themselves.

I feel that if you have the diagnosis you should be treated exactly the same as if you were female with no pressure to put a brave face on, especially in front of professionals...

Speaking as a woman though, in my day to day life I still feel I have to pretend to be strong and put a brave face on like I am coping and feel that people think I am weak if I cry or am emotional. Also people may also think that women are simply being 'pre menstrual' or over the top. But if a man were to do the same then that would be ok. So there is a flipside to it.

I agree there is not enough research or reading material on bpd in males. It must be hard for you to always identify with women as the basic life challenges are different. I would really be interested in seeing the difference between the two.

Sorry I haven't helped. I hope things start to change

[Notoriousglo]

Lmao @ your nons rejection. 😝 I think the statistics say less men because less men are talking about it. I never have felt men struggle less, though.

[shakespeare47]

I suspect that BPD occurs just as often in men.. But, it is just under-reported.

Originally Posted by shakespeare47

I suspect that BPD occurs just as often in men.. But, it is just under-reported.

Very true. I'm sure this is the case.

[Phreak]

Men tend just to face extra challenges in life anyway TBQFH

[shakespeare47]

Yeah. we die sooner... have more health problems (at least I think that second one is true, lol, I haven't taken the time to check my assumptions)...

Originally Posted by Phreak

Men tend just to face extra challenges in life anyway TBQFH

Dating is harder for men coz we have to make all the moves, but then we don't carry babies in our stomachs for 9 months

[Phreak]

I'd rather have the babies, and the higher pain tolerance

[shakespeare47]

Women don't know what they want from men... act confident, and you're a jerk... be too sensitive, and you're a wimp... you can't win.

[widgets]

Men can be tricky creatures too!

I just wanted to say that yesterday I was upset and I was thinking to myself how stupid and weak and pathetic I was for crying and trying to put on a strong front in front of others. So I am not saying you don't have it harder but it's something that happens for women as well. I would be mortified to cry In front of people

[ifst5]

Sorry but it needs to be said - it's not a picnic for women, BPD sufferers or not. Just off the top, lets look at family issues: we're meant to somehow balance biological clocks with the normal desire to actually be someone and have a career. Then it's a case of having an understanding employer who's ok with maternity leave not to mention life long family commitments thereafter. The pay gap between men and women is still appalling and we're expected to simply accept that because after all we're not men and so we deserve less money for the same skill set. Then there are other societal expectations - if a man doesn't want marriage or children, he's a bachelor, if it's the same for a woman she's either a b**** or plain abnormal. Then there's the amount of women who do want children but have had to sacrifice this so that they can make enough money to live and get on in life as a single person because they haven't met Mr. Right at all or in good time. Or the women who did find someone, were perfectly happy in their long term relationships/marriages and stable in their careers - only for their partner to turn around and say they don't want children when the time is better to start a family. So then a woman has to make a very difficult choice and if she chooses to be alone again they have to start everything from scratch and sometimes start a family without a partner. Then we get down to actual child bearing and motherhood. Which can pretty grim but mothers are supposed to be 'natural' parents and if they're anything but they can't possibly love their children.

And now i'll pause for breath. We're supposedly living in a far less sexist society that champions gender equality to the hilt. Um, not quite.

Getting back to the topic, I think it's disturbing that any amount of people are being under diagnosed for personality disorders. It shouldn't be the case that if a man is showing particularly aggressive tendencies that's just who he is, or if a woman appears overly emotional she's just 'hormonal.' Personality disorders wreck lives. The sooner they're picked up on the better for everyone involved.

[shakespeare47]

Well, I love women.. at least I love my wife... and she is pretty dang tough, and funny, and just a cool person... And I don't want to take away from the challenges that women have... There is still a glass ceiling, and it isn't right. But, men do face special challenges from being male and also BPD...

[strangeskies]

Ah, if borderline males are percieved as soft or gay then that would explain why some psyhciatrists asked on the first session: 'do you have homosexual tendencies?'.

However I think we all have it rough. I think it all evens out. Maybe women have it easier in ways and men have it easier in other ways but in the end it evens out. Unless you're a billionare, of course.

Originally Posted by shakespeare47

Women don't know what they want from men... act confident, and you're a jerk... be too sensitive, and you're a wimp... you can't win.

Wimps certainly lose, but I think that, given a choice between 1 - confident but humble, and 2 - confident + an asshole, women always go for #2. That's the impression I get.

My computer couldn't even count how many assholes I've known who always won and how many wimps I've known who always lost.

Originally Posted by ifst5

Sorry but it needs to be said - it's not a picnic for women, BPD sufferers or not. Just off the top, lets look at family issues: we're meant to somehow balance biological clocks with the normal desire to actually be someone and have a career. Then it's a case of having an understanding employer who's ok with maternity leave not to mention life long family commitments thereafter. The pay gap between men and women is still appalling and we're expected to simply accept that because after all we're not men and so we deserve less money for the same skill set. Then there are other societal expectations - if a man doesn't want marriage or children, he's a bachelor, if it's the same for a woman she's either a b**** or plain abnormal. Then there's the amount of women who do want children but have had to sacrifice this so that they can make enough money to live and get on in life as a single person because they haven't met Mr. Right at all or in good time. Or the women who did find someone, were perfectly happy in their long term relationships/marriages and stable in their careers - only for their partner to turn around and say they don't want children when the time is better to start a family. So then a woman has to make a very difficult choice and if she chooses to be alone again they have to start everything from scratch and sometimes start a family without a partner. Then we get down to actual child bearing and motherhood. Which can pretty grim but mothers are supposed to be 'natural' parents and if they're anything but they can't possibly love their children.

And now i'll pause for breath. We're supposedly living in a far less sexist society that champions gender equality to the hilt. Um, not quite.

Getting back to the topic, I think it's disturbing that any amount of people are being under diagnosed for personality disorders. It shouldn't be the case that if a man is showing particularly aggressive tendencies that's just who he is, or if a woman appears overly emotional she's just 'hormonal.' Personality disorders wreck lives. The sooner they're picked up on the better for everyone involved.

True. I think this is all part of the expectations that society has prescribed, or gender roles, if you wanna call it that. And I think it's all a pile of horse droppings.

Originally Posted by shakespeare47

Well, I love women.. at least I love my wife... and she is pretty dang tough, and funny, and just a cool person... And I don't want to take away from the challenges that women have... There is still a glass ceiling, and it isn't right. But, men do face special challenges from being male and also BPD...

Detracting from the topic here, but dude, you're pretty darn lucky to have a cool wife whom you love, no ? Of course, this is coming from the mouth of an absolute recluse who has more inanimate friends than human friends.

But I mean ... how many of us can say we're in good marriages ? We normally hear horror stories on these forums.

[shakespeare47]

^well, it ain't perfect by any means... but, I do love being married, and I think I have the better end of the deal.
I'll say that for a while there, I didn't think I'd ever get married.... I was 33 when we tied the knot.

But, back to the topic at hand. Men and BPD. I showed some of the traits when I was in my 20's. I remember having a good male friend, and started showing some of the "I hate you- don't leave me" attitudes. and it just brought on some self-loathing. No one else even noticed it.. But, it made me feel like an idiot. Like I wasn't a real man because I was letting it get to me... It just brought on shame and self-doubt.. and I wondered what was wrong with me.. every other man I knew acted confident, like they didn't have a care in the world, in regards to friendships. But, again, I didn't get much grief from others, it was all self-loathing.

[dillpickle1983]

Originally Posted by strangeskies

Ah, if borderline males are percieved as soft or gay then that would explain why some psyhciatrists asked on the first session: 'do you have homosexual tendencies?'.

However I think we all have it rough. I think it all evens out. Maybe women have it easier in ways and men have it easier in other ways but in the end it evens out. Unless you're a billionare, of course.

I've never had that question asked actually, but I am gay and have BPD. I can tell you my BPD symptoms are somewhat different than that of most of the female friends that have bpd that I know.