[misscath007]

I have the results of my MRI and Leed suggested posting the results on here. My doctor is heavily advising spinal fusion surgery and I wonder how many members here have gone through back surgery. I am in a lot of pain and am pretty incapacitated right now. I have already gone through a short course of physical therapy and am thinking of getting a second opinion.

Summary of MRI:

L1/2 left posterolateral disc herniation.
L 2/3 No HTP or stenosis
L3/4 Disc bulge with facet spurring(bone spur I think)
L4/5 posterior disc herniation with annular tear, facet spurring & mild central stenosis
L5/1 Disc bulge with facet prominence
Findings consistent with spasm.

[kindachaotic]

Have lower back pain but is probably the garden variety OA.
I've had many surgeries, at bear minimum I would get a second opinion.
Also consider a second MRI read by a different radiologist or done at a different facility.
From personal experience this was THE difference in decision on shoulder surgery. Had surgery, tough recovery but never regretted it.

Wishing you the best in your decision.

[misscath007]

Thank you for your response!

I cannot afford to pay for an MRI out of pocket. my insurance paid for the first. I am thinking of getting a second opinion, even if I have to pay out of pocket, because insurance won't cover something not medically necessary. Even though I am leaning toward getting the surgery, it will not be a cure all by any means. I could still have back pain.

[Leed]

Just my UNEDUCATED OPINION, but looking at that report, I doubt that any eithical surgeon would recommend surgery. I think your doc is wrong unless there's more to the report I'm not seeing. He MIGHT as "elective" but he wouldn't think it really "necessary." I believe if he were an ETHICAL surgeon he would recommend physical therapy as the best means of pain control, or pain management. It doesn't suggest any canal problems, or any nerve, severe stenosis, or foramen problems, so there's nothing to indicate that surgery is iminent. I'd certainly avoid it as long as I could and take all conservative methods as possible. A second opinion is always a good idea so I'd get one. I sure could be wrong and i hope I am. Hugs, Lee

[misscath007]

Sorry, but since when is it "unethical" to operate on someone with a herniated disc that is causing them a large degree of disability? As far as I know lots of people get operated on for this same problem. Sure, it's not a cure all and it sure isn't my first choice by any means. Which is why I am getting a second opinion. I do not agree that he is unethical & I feel that your choice of words was a little strong.

[Leed]

Sorry -- maybe I did use the wrong words, but these days too many surgeons are all too ready to do fusions on patients when they should be recommending either pain management or therapy. The result is failed fusions, broken instrumentation causing more surgery, and much more pain. I've talked to THOUSANDS of people who have had fusions, plus I've done alot of research, so I'm not just blowing smoke. Sorry if I offended you.

[lizardlady]

Misscath, would your insurance pay to have another doctor review your MRI results? IMHO, it's always a good idea to get a second opinion before letting a doc cut on us.

I don't know your whole story so please forgive if I suggest something you've already tried....

Have you tried seeing a doc other than a surgeon? Docs tend to want to solve problems based on thier own specialty. Surgeons want to operate. Chiropractors want to adjust. etc.

I have a herniated disc between L4 & 5. There was talk of surgery, but I had one doc who suggested I "learn to live with it." I was ticked because I thought he meant learn to accept the pain. What he meant was learn to adjust how I did things so as not to aggrivate the problem. Maybe something other than surgery could help your problem?

Be sure to get as much info as you can about the planned surgery - what are the possible complications? What's the probability it will improve your situation or make it wors? How much help/relief is it likely to give you. Find out what the doc is proposing for surgery and research it.

Good luck to you whatever route you take.

[misscath007]

Thanks Lizard Lady. I am looking into getting a second opinion although my insurance will not pay for it. I have heard all the disadvantages of surgery, oh boy, it is not my first choice by any means. I know that it is not a cure all and in fact may not do anything or could make the other discs flare up. Guess that is why I am so depressed.

I am feeling lots of anxiety over this right now. I can barely walk, let alone get my daily life activities done. It's hard to depend on my dad but I told him that he needs to help me out. I did have a short stint of physical therapy but I am not any better. Unfortunately even if I wanted to continue with the PT, insurance will not pay for it. It's crazy isn't it?...they will pay for an operation but not for physical therapy which is less of a cost outlay.

Doc gave me a DVD on the procedure but I still can't make up my mind. I would rather go the non surgery route, who wouldn't but I don't think it's going to get better in fact I am feeling worse. Wish I had a crystal ball so I could see into the future.

[misscath007]

Originally Posted by Leed

Sorry -- maybe I did use the wrong words, but these days too many surgeons are all too ready to do fusions on patients when they should be recommending either pain management or therapy. The result is failed fusions, broken instrumentation causing more surgery, and much more pain. I've talked to THOUSANDS of people who have had fusions, plus I've done alot of research, so I'm not just blowing smoke. Sorry if I offended you.

I am not offended Lee, it just took me by suprize. I know that lots of people are against surgery and I am not crazy about the idea myself. I am just very sensitive right now because I don't feel good. Wish this was the only issue I had to deal with right now.

[J1b1a2]

Hi MissCath, I had surgery in Oct 2011 after 5.5 years of pain. Unfortunately,my surgery failed and now I have to go have surgery again in Germany this August definitely do as much research as you can before making any decisions... And 2nd, 3rd,&4th med opinions can't hurt. Best of luck to you!

[avoice]

Hi I'v had three back surgery's, Foot surgery on both feet. After my third back surgery the pain was agony. Tried all kinds of opiates nothing left me in a wheelchair. Than I wanted the spinal cord stimulator implant. It works for the most I have started physical therapy to see if I can get up out of this wheelchair. Had my feet operated about 6 weeks ago. That was tough. Hope you get to feeling better soon.

[jax01]

I had a spinal fusion, t-5 to t-11 in 2002. Total failure. pain was as abd and got worse than before the operation.
now that my spine is fused and i have already been operated on no one will touch me. many Docs won't even talk to me. I can under stand theres no surgical option due to the fusion area one big bone. but obviously the operation missed the real cause, and it's still there.
but none of that means anything.
you should get a second opinon. maybe a third. make sure you have exhuasted your non surgical options before you think about surgery. surgeons like surgery. that's to be expected. they also tend to think things should be solved through surgey.
but the one thing you cannot do, is undo a surgery. and you don't know how it's going to turn out untill it's over. go for it too soon and it may make other solution impossible.
I knew the risks. I'd seen more than one doctor about it. I knew what the odds of success were, and i hurt so bad. So I said yes.
and now it's ten years of pain and frustraion later, so believe me when i say make your choice carefully, explore other avenues of treatment. do surgey as a last resort.
No matter how good the odds look, sometimes when you roll the dice, you lose

I wish you all the best, and a complete and speedy recovery if you choose sugery. I do realize there may be no other choice for you but surgery.
But like the old knight said in indiana jones 3, "choose wisely."

A Loser called Jax.

[Skully]

I have never had back surgery but I have had 11 surgeries...everything from wrist to knee to feet to ankle and a gallbladder removal. There are a lot of factors when discussing recovery. Age, weight, activity level, etc. I hope all works out for you!!!

[Leed]

Hey Jax -- Won't ANYONE do a REVISION?? Won't anyone help you since something obviously is wrong??? It seems to me that if your pain is THAT much worse, SOMEONE would help you, especially now!

Have you tried a teaching hospital? Many times they will help, especially after this many years and if something is definitely wrong! Is there a teaching hospital anywhere near you? If there is, I'd try them and see what they say. Living in this much pain is terrible, and I'd sure want to know WHY doctors are so willing to let a patient suffer THIS much. I know they've thrown the Hippocratic Oath out the window long ago, but still -- what about compassion? Have they thrown that out too? Must be.

When is the last time you tried to get a doctor to take a look? Hugs, Lee

Originally Posted by misscath007

I have the results of my MRI and Leed suggested posting the results on here. My doctor is heavily advising spinal fusion surgery and I wonder how many members here have gone through back surgery. I am in a lot of pain and am pretty incapacitated right now. I have already gone through a short course of physical therapy and am thinking of getting a second opinion.

Summary of MRI:

L1/2 left posterolateral disc herniation.
L 2/3 No HTP or stenosis
L3/4 Disc bulge with facet spurring(bone spur I think)
L4/5 posterior disc herniation with annular tear, facet spurring & mild central stenosis
L5/1 Disc bulge with facet prominence
Findings consistent with spasm.

My T had spinal fusion surgery, but she still has chronic pain.

[TenzinG1970]

Might be worth asking if a microdiscectomy might be a better surgery? Basically they shave off the part of the disc that is pressing on the nerve. The problem with multiple disc problems is when you fuse 2 levels of the spine together is causes more pressure on the next 2 levels of the spine (above and below) I was told that I wouldn't find a doctor that would do more then a one level fusion because it would be a never ending processes of continuing fusions (does that make sense?)

I had the micro done at L3/4 and it along with a SCS (spinal cord stim) gave me a few years of mostly pain/med free time I now have to live with spinal stenosis. So your story might be different. But having only one level of fusion (IMHO ) with all the different levels of injury won't give you much, if any success. ( I am not a doctor, only a washed up paramedic nursing student) but I have been living with my back pain for over 10 years now...

Hope this helps,and let me know if you have any other questions / Rob

I tried to post a link to microdiscectomy , but I don't have enough post to do that yet, I urge you to look it up.

[jax01]

Originally Posted by Leed

Hey Jax -- Won't ANYONE do a REVISION?? Won't anyone help you since something obviously is wrong??? It seems to me that if your pain is THAT much worse, SOMEONE would help you, especially now!

Have you tried a teaching hospital? Many times they will help, especially after this many years and if something is definitely wrong! Is there a teaching hospital anywhere near you? If there is, I'd try them and see what they say. Living in this much pain is terrible, and I'd sure want to know WHY doctors are so willing to let a patient suffer THIS much. I know they've thrown the Hippocratic Oath out the window long ago, but still -- what about compassion? Have they thrown that out too? Must be.

When is the last time you tried to get a doctor to take a look? Hugs, Lee

Sorry, haven't checked this forum in a bit. so i missed your responce.

so! umm... no, no one will touch me. because of a prior failed surgery. because of the fusion, itself. I was told by the last doctor I went to see about surgery, that there is no surgical solution. the fusion is good. it's solid bone.

I live in New England. There are lots of big medschools well within easy travel distance. I have tried.
I did find one doc who wanted to go to work on me. his big plan was to fuse more levels, and replace the existing hardware with larger more invasive hardware. stuff that would come very very close to my S. cord.
I can still walk. I'd like to continue. that guys been all over the news for big big mistakes during his surgeries.

honestly, there are plenty of Docs who'll leave a patient in pain. and plenty who will call you faker, and drug seeker, too.
even when tests prove the pain is real, and couldn't be faked this well.
plenty of docs will turn you down flat because they see you as a law suit, not a patient.

though i admit, it is not easy or even possible sometimes to fix someone elses work. there's no money in compassion I'm afraid.

I can't even get mad about it anymore.

i don't like doctors as a rule. Mostly beacuse I've seen so many. But I do have issues. And the pain has made the pych issues a problem.
/sigh

oh, yeah the last doc i saw was another pain specialist three weeks ago.
you know, i don't expect miracles. really.

jax

[JenniLiv]

Hi misscath, I've just had surgery-I had chronic back pain for 22 years. Then 7 years ago I picked up a full suitcase and my body got stuck Sidewards! It eventually came out of spasm but I'd slipped a disc. L4-L5. Since then I've managed to slip L3-L4, L5-S1 aswell. I'm taking so many drugs from fentanyl 75mcg to paracetamol..the cocktail sends me crazy. Anyway-my docs gave up on me so I contacted a pain specialist in London who was trialling a new spinal cord stimulator. I met the criteria, so emailed him. 5 months later I'm just out of my last operation. I hav zero back pain. I cannot believe it. It has such great results-check it out if you want..I can PM you the details. Nevro SCS. Wonderful. Hope this helps, much love xxxx

[shinty]

I have found that if you have leg pain resulting from a pinched nerve, etc., then surgery is a great option. I speak with some experience, as I've had 10 lower back surgeries. i have had 2 fusions, and both of them were worth it, and helped me a lot. Everyone's different though. Explore every option and trestment before even considering surgery. I'd get that second, and even a third opinion. Good luck,
shinty

[Grey Matter]

My dad had spinal fusion done in 2003, and unlike a lot of the people posting, he had amazing results. He was out of work for three years due to it, was not walking well, etc. The draw back of his surgery was the timing, as he had a massive stroke in 2004 that set him back a long while.

Second and even third opinions are important with any surgery. I have gotten six surgeries done, none on my back so I can't say for that reasoning, but I made sure to get multiple sources of opinion that medicaid was willing to pay for.

Wish you all the best!