[Fuzzybear]

((((( JD )))))

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

I can't say that is my central aim here. I am not sure I can say I have any central aim. My aim is probably off, anyway. One of the main things I have used Psych Central for is to write some of my thoughts, in an attempt to better understand what I think. But my posts are probably all over the place. Sometimes I have reacted to -- been triggered by -- what other people have said, and given replies that produce hurt. I even learn by that. Sometimes I do attempt to give support. I don't see any single thread of meaning to what I post. I don't have a posting philosophy!

Well, Pach, by "central aim" I meant to indicate the purposes set forth in the guidelines, which very baldly set out that the purpose of PC is permitting people to help others and which place limits on posting that isn't so directed. Of course, there are lots of posts and even forums and social groups that really don't have to do with helping others, but they're tolerated by the owner and admins as somehow complementary to the "central aim."

From what you write it seems that your main purpose here is self-development, which to me at least sounds perfectly consonant with the "central aim." And as far as concerns actually "hurting" others, well, we're all utterly human and we all make mistakes and sometimes hurt people when we really have no intention to do so.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean when you refer to "any single thread of meaning." To me, it seems that everyone here on PC posts about all different kinds of things within the rules: help other people if you can and don't hurt them intentionally.

As to a "posting philosophy," what I meant by that is a personal approach to the kinds of "helping" posts that are the essence of PC. A newby shows up and publishes his or her first post about his or her situation and problems. They are welcomed in responsive posts. Some people limit what they say very strictly. Others, who may have had similar problems, post more thorough responses. Some people appear to me to try to reduce or entirely eliminate from their responsive posts the insertion of personal details relating to themselves. Some prefer to give practical information about how to find and do things here on PC.

And it occurred to me that since we're all both posters and recipients at the same time, we all might have some ideas as to whether the way we do what we do (helping others in pain, mostly) might be improved. I don't think it's as simple as missbelle would like to imply. I'm concerned that there are hurting people hanging around here who we might better serve and help, though I have no ideas myself as to how that could be done. I myself do have a "posting philosophy," and that is quite specifically to give to others what I would like to receive myself. And for me that means putting a lot of myself into my helping posts so that they're not just cold words, but warm words, coming from a warm human being who does care about their misery.

You may well not think you have a "posting philosophy," but surely you'd like to help people if you can, and what you yourself consider appropriate when doing so is your "posting philosophy." You may think that different things are appropriate at different times for different people, and that in itself would be an eclectic "posting philosophy," but a "posting philosophy" nonetheless. Take care.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by missbelle

OMG....You have made something so simple so complicated. Give it a rest!

Is it really so simple, missbelle?

[lizardlady]

Ygrec, I've been following this thread and your one about titles. My first reaction to both was that you were being critical of others. That's more reflection of my "stuff" than what you actually said. I posted in another forum about how I felt about the need to offer others support. Part of my basic makeup is to try and take care of other people. It took me a long time and a ton of therapy to learn I can't help everyone all the time. I have to pick and chose.

I come to PC for a variety of reasons. I start threads and reply to posts for a variety of reasons. In the end I believe that is true of everyone here. I believe each of us (PC members) is doing the best we can at the time.

I have a high stress, emotionally draining job. There are times I come to PC looking for support of my own stuff. There are times I come looking for distractions from that stress and exhaustion.
I am better able to offer others support on some days than others.
There are some members I feel closer to than others.
There are some members whose posts I avoid because either I know the person posts about or says things that rub me the wrong way or trigger me.
I avoid some forums out of fear of being triggered.
I don't visit some forums because I have no experience with that subject and don't think I have anything to contribute.
I have limited time I can spend at PC. That puts a limit on how many forums/threads I can read and respond to.

I guess my "philosophy" about posting is that I do the best I can on any given day.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

I'm concerned that there are hurting people hanging around here who we might better serve and help, though I have no ideas myself as to how that could be done. I myself do have a "posting philosophy," and that is quite specifically to give to others what I would like to receive myself. And for me that means putting a lot of myself into my helping posts so that they're not just cold words, but warm words, coming from a warm human being who does care about their misery.

I'm interested in what prompted this thread in the first place... Any thoughts on that, along the lines of self-examination?

Two things: First, there are reasons why threads are started. Second, opinions are subjective perceptions. No one has a monopoly on truth (even if there were a consensus about what "truth" is).

This thread has been visited by well over 200 and responded to by 30 +. It has got people thinking. If the point of the thread is to improve support, I am for it. I am not sure, however, whether there will be a consensus on what should be done to make the improvement.

[Ygrec23]

The Byzantine said:

Two things: First, there are reasons why threads are started. Second, opinions are subjective perceptions. No one has a monopoly on truth (even if there was a consensus about what "truth" is).

Yes as to all three assertions.

This thread has been visited by well over 200 and responded to by 30 +. It has got people thinking. If the point of the thread is to improve support, I am for it. I am not sure, however, whether there will be a consensus on what should be done to make the improvement.

The point of the thread was, you're right, to improve support, and I think that starts with, as you say, getting people thinking. As to a consensus, I very much doubt that it's possible, as you've pointed out, with so many subjective perceptions on such a subjective topic. If at the very least it keeps people thinking harder about what they're doing when they're replying to someone in pain, then the thread has done a job. It would be nice to be able to do more, but that's enough. Take care.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

I'm interested in what prompted this thread in the first place... Any thoughts on that, along the lines of self-examination?

Good question, Pach. I'm sure I read twenty posts for every one I answer. Some I don't answer because I don't understand what the poster is saying. Some I don't answer because I don't know what to say or how to respond. Some posts deal with subject matter (bipolar, schizophrenia, etc., etc.) with which I'm not familiar at all.

So it occurred to me that other people here on PC (not all other people, just some) might have a better and more effective way of grabbing hold of all different kinds of posts and responding to them in a kind and effective manner, so that they didn't wind up with such a large percentage of "no comments" as I have.

It's kind of hard for me to believe that recipients are satisfied with plain one-liners such as "We're glad you're here and feel your pain." I wouldn't be happy with such a response to me, so I generalize from that and try to do something more personal. But it's difficult. So I wanted to find out how other people approach the problem. And through your posts now I have and continue to have more insight into how others shape their responses.

Take care!

[Ygrec23]

LizardLady said:

Ygrec, I've been following this thread and your one about titles. My first reaction to both was that you were being critical of others. That's more reflection of my "stuff" than what you actually said. I posted in another forum about how I felt about the need to offer others support. Part of my basic makeup is to try and take care of other people. It took me a long time and a ton of therapy to learn I can't help everyone all the time. I have to pick and chose.

I'm glad you found out that I wasn't trying, in either thread, to be critical of others, in any way, shape or form. I blew it in the other thread and I get the feeling I've done a little better here in this thread. For someone who does as much yattering on keyboards as I do, there's an irreducible minimum of times when I wind up with my foot in my mouth. And that was the case in the "titles" thread. I failed to foresee how my choice of words would affect other people reading my original post, and I should have foreseen it, it wasn't very hard to foresee it, but I didn't. I screwed up. On this thread I think I'm doing a bit better, but just a bit. I have no answers to the questions I've posed. This thread is a search for other people's ideas and thoughts and experience about responding to pain posts, from which I (hopefully) will be able to improve my own performance.

I come to PC for a variety of reasons. I start threads and reply to posts for a variety of reasons. In the end I believe that is true of everyone here. I believe each of us (PC members) is doing the best we can at the time.

Without a doubt. But the guidelines tell us that, while we each may personally have our own reasons for participating, the general aim and goal is to help hurt people feel better. And it's hard for me to believe that our individual ways of doing that are all entirely different, like snowflakes. That we're doing our best, I agree entirely. Whether that best can be improved is to me an interesting question.

I have a high stress, emotionally draining job. There are times I come to PC looking for support of my own stuff. There are times I come looking for distractions from that stress and exhaustion. I am better able to offer others support on some days than others. There are some members I feel closer to than others. There are some members whose posts I avoid because either I know the person posts about or says things that rub me the wrong way or trigger me. I avoid some forums out of fear of being triggered. I don't visit some forums because I have no experience with that subject and don't think I have anything to contribute. I have limited time I can spend at PC. That puts a limit on how many forums/threads I can read and respond to. I guess my "philosophy" about posting is that I do the best I can on any given day.

There's nothing you've written in the foregoing paragraph that doesn't apply to me or very probably to the large majority of PC members. But when you DO come to grips with the post of a person in a bad situation, mental, physical or social, do you just respond on auto-pilot? Or do you think about what you're doing and saying so as to create a certain pacifying effect on the person to whom you're writing? It's really that "thinking" to which all of this is addressed. Is writing a response automatic? Is it considered? If considered, what are the considerations? There are many things we all do automatically, without thinking. Though some do think. This is a situation, for me, in which I'd like to proceed from being on auto-pilot to thinking about what I'm doing and possibly doing better. That's all.

Take care!

[lizardlady]

I'm glad you found out that I wasn't trying, in either thread, to be critical of others, in any way, shape or form. I blew it in the other thread and I get the feeling I've done a little better here in this thread. For someone who does as much yattering on keyboards as I do, there's an irreducible minimum of times when I wind up with my foot in my mouth. And that was the case in the "titles" thread. I failed to foresee how my choice of words would affect other people reading my original post, and I should have foreseen it, it wasn't very hard to foresee it, but I didn't. I screwed up. On this thread I think I'm doing a bit better, but just a bit. I have no answers to the questions I've posed. This thread is a search for other people's ideas and thoughts and experience about responding to pain posts, from which I (hopefully) will be able to improve my own performance.

You are definitely doing well in this thread. Can't and won't speak for anyone else, but I appreciate that you've shared of yourself and your reasons for posting this thread in this thread. I think this ties in with a discussion we had in another forum. Hats off to you for taking the risk and asking others in order to learn.

There's nothing you've written in the foregoing paragraph that doesn't apply to me or very probably to the large majority of PC members. But when you DO come to grips with the post of a person in a bad situation, mental, physical or social, do you just respond on auto-pilot? Or do you think about what you're doing and saying so as to create a certain pacifying effect on the person to whom you're writing? It's really that "thinking" to which all of this is addressed. Is writing a response automatic? Is it considered? If considered, what are the considerations? There are many things we all do automatically, without thinking. Though some do think. This is a situation, for me, in which I'd like to proceed from being on auto-pilot to thinking about what I'm doing and possibly doing better.

There was a time in the past that I answered posts immediately with whatever came to mind. I was in a different place mentally and emotionally at the time. As a result I often said things I shouldn't or said them in a way that made matters worse.

Today, my answers are not automatic. I might reply as soon as I read a post because I can say something helpful without having to go off and think about it. Other times, like this thread, I have to take time to process what I read before I respond. Then there are times I just don't respond. Either I can't think of anything useful to say or, as someone else said earlier in this thread, I just want to verbally slap the person. "Slapping" the person would be against PC's reason for exisiting and would not help the poster.

You asked what considerations go into responding.... very good question. I guess I first try to figure out what the poster is looking for. Do they just want someone to say "there, there"? Do they want specific information? Do I know something that might be helpful - a link or some other resource. Depending on all of that I decide how much of my own life/situation I share with the person. Does that make sense?

Oh yeh, I almost forgot. In some forums/threads I'll post "fun" or "silly" stuff because that's what the thread is about.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

HOW it is best (or most desirable, or most effective) for us to offer that compassion, sympathy or direction.

I think there is no one BEST way. Different people want different types of responses. Also, different problems call for different types of responses. If someone really sounds in crisis, I may briefly express support or offer hugs and ask if they are safe. If they don't sound safe, I will suggest they call a friend, therapist, crisis line, etc. There are some people who are super super sensitive and can interpret well-intentioned responses negatively, and I tend to shy away from posting to those people for fear of "making things worse." Sometimes a person's situation seems so complex, I can't think of anything helpful to write, so I offer hugs or "keep going" types of short responses. At least they will know that I read their post and am thinking of them. As others have said, people are often looking for affirmation that they have a valid concern, so I may post something like, "it sounds like you had a really hard time at the doctor's office." At least that lets the person know they've been heard.

When I start a thread, I like people to respond to my question, but I also kind of like people to share from their own experience, in relation to what I posted. It helps me to hear how others handled similar issues in their own lives. (I know some people don't want to hear about others' experiences as they consider it off topic, but I don't mind it, especially if they can relate it to my topic.) I am not bothered if people in a thread of mine respond to each other. I figure their discussion may be helpful to me if it is on topic, and may be helpful to other readers too. (OTOH, if they get in a fight on my thread, I prefer they take it elsewhere.) I also like other types of responses, such as the brief, "wishing you well" or "hugs" responses. It says a lot to me that the person cared enough to respond.

Originally Posted by Omers

there are few here that offer quantitative help for me

Omers, what is quantitative help?

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

What do you think about anything to avoid?

Insults, condescension, dismissive retorts, minimizing the poster's concern, quantitative comparisons to their own issue (e.g. I have more problems than you, I have a harder life than you, I wish I had your problem--that's nothing, etc.). Also, when people post something like "stop discussing this" or "you've beaten this into the ground" or "enough, already", then it is very offputting. I have seen people post that in others' threads and I wonder why they bother reading and responding to the thread if it is offensive and tedious to them? If I am not interested in a thread or can't offer a helpful response, I don't read it or respond to it. That is a type of support, IMO. If enough people don't respond, then the thread dies a natural death and falls off the first page and is forgotten. I don't understand the need to post admonitions to not discuss anymore--that just keeps the thread on page 1.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

In the beginning when I first came to PC I was so bad off that by answering questions that I could answer from my life experiences helped me take my mind off of the long days of terrible anxiety that I just had coming at me and did not always know why.

Not to contest at all how bad off you were (or felt you were) but... the part about answering questions for other members doesn't sound to me like a reflection of being bad off, so much as of doing what works -- to support you and others.

I don't know you personally. I'd think, though, that doing what you could in those situations wouldn't just have taken your mind off your real problems while you were waiting to deal with those problems by some other means. I picture it, instead, as an important part of dealing with those very problems.

Imaginary internal dialogue
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I've got all this stuff going on. Meanwhile, I'm
still answering questions, responding to people's
concerns, finding out what it's like for them,
seeing what works for them and what doesn't.
If I can do all that... how bad can my stuff be?

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

And even when I try to make an attempt to ask a question and I put a personal struggle out there, I have to be honest, I don't get an answer.And it is not just an inability of PC members. I presented the same question to my therapist and all he did was say I was in a sad position and it is sad that most of my life I have actually been a lonely person dealing with the issues of others that were just forced in my way. And I really didn't want that answer of recognizing that about me, I already know that, I was really hoping for him to come out with a strong answer that would be helpful, but as always that strong answer was just not there.

I tend to think that for all the most important questions, there are no answers -- at least, none that we're able to recognize as answers till after we're done addressing the question ourselves. I picture a child asking, "How do I grow up?" -- clearly an important question but (imo) better left unanswered.

It's possible that what you mean by a "strong answer" is different from what I would. On those occasions when someone's given me what I've seen as a strong answer, more often than not their answer has proven helpful to me only indirectly. Through trying to follow their advice, I've discovered how it didn't work for me, learned where not to bother looking for answers, and (eventually) gained a better understanding of the question.

Partway through my first year of college I found myself overwhelmed with assignments, falling behind in everything, and worried (privately) about my near-total lack of a social life. The problem as my father saw it was that I was undoubtedly spending too much time socializing and not enough studying. His advice one evening was to go upstairs, wash my face with cold water, say my prayers, go to bed -- and in the morning straighten out and fly right.

For me, the best "strong answers" have mostly been not about what to do or not do, but about where to look to climb out of some rut I was in and start getting a better perspective on the question.

Btw, I don't have a strong answer for how to apply any of the preceding to posting at PC.

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by missbelle

OMG....You have made something so simple so complicated. Give it a rest!

One thing I have learned missbelle, is something that may seem so simple to some may be very difficult to others.

I actually am glad that it was brought up, I looked at myself in a different way, even realized some things that I had not really recognized about myself before. And, to be honest? I have enjoyed seeing the things that concern others and what they post to and think about.

And when we talk about the process of the forums and what it means to different people, it gives anyone the opportunity to see what it means when someone posts or not to their thread. And now, when I read someone's post it makes me think about what that person may be feeling about my question or those questions of others. By reading this I am getting to know more about the people who give their personal opinions here.

I know you have been here a long time missbelle and you contribute many nice things (I can't tell you how much your pictures sometimes make my day) and in that this whole process seems very easy and a 1,2,3 process.
But here, it is something people think about and proof that there is more than meets the eye here in black and white. And for you, well, you know how to put up those pictures and are way more computer savy than I am. And it is not that I can't learn that some day but my priorty at the moment is to work through my issue which has proven to be very challenging.

For example, I have learned something more about pachyderm that I didn't know before and pachyderm is one of my friends that I don't know really well and now I understand the reasoning behind pachyderm's posts. I really like that.

And, as I see Ygre23 taking time out to address each person that is coming forward to post on his thread, well, I like the fact that he has taken time to address each person here, thats really nice.

Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by FooZe

Not to contest at all how bad off you were (or felt you were) but... the part about answering questions for other members doesn't sound to me like a reflection of being bad off, so much as of doing what works -- to support you and others.

I don't know you personally. I'd think, though, that doing what you could in those situations wouldn't just have taken your mind off your real problems while you were waiting to deal with those problems by some other means. I picture it, instead, as an important part of dealing with those very problems.

Imaginary internal dialogue
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I've got all this stuff going on. Meanwhile, I'm

still answering questions, responding to people's
concerns, finding out what it's like for them,
seeing what works for them and what doesn't.
If I can do all that... how bad can my stuff be?

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I tend to think that for all the most important questions, there are no answers -- at least, none that we're able to recognize as answers till after we're done addressing the question ourselves. I picture a child asking, "How do I grow up?" -- clearly an important question but (imo) better left unanswered.

It's possible that what you mean by a "strong answer" is different from what I would. On those occasions when someone's given me what I've seen as a strong answer, more often than not their answer has proven helpful to me only indirectly. Through trying to follow their advice, I've discovered how it didn't work for me, learned where not to bother looking for answers, and (eventually) gained a better understanding of the question.

Partway through my first year of college I found myself overwhelmed with assignments, falling behind in everything, and worried (privately) about my near-total lack of a social life. The problem as my father saw it was that I was undoubtedly spending too much time socializing and not enough studying. His advice one evening was to go upstairs, wash my face with cold water, say my prayers, go to bed -- and in the morning straighten out and fly right.

For me, the best "strong answers" have mostly been not about what to do or not do, but about where to look to climb out of some rut I was in and start getting a better perspective on the question.

Btw, I don't have a strong answer for how to apply any of the preceding to posting at PC.

Wow Foolze, thanks for your time in giving your thoughts on my post here, you had some good points and some of your points I definitely agree with. And you did give a strong answer here, at least what my meaning of strong was. Because you didn't just highlight something and pat me on the head and say so sorry. You talked about it and what it meant to you, even if you had a different point of view. And your last statement is what I do try to do, suggest "where to look" to climb out of some rut. Because that is what I did, I often looked everywhere I could.

Thanks for your thoughts, they were much stronger than you thought.

Open Eyes

[Omers]

Quantitative is a big word for measurable... So often I want to hear "if you do "x" then "y" will happen". Like when I was in CBT... you are having flashbacks then you do grounding techniques, over time it gets easier and they go away. Unfortunately I am currently in a far more complicated place in my healing journey.

Sorry about the big words... I am not feeling well and tend to intellectualize more and hang in my head more... which leads to saying things in much more complicated ways than are helpful.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by Omers

... So often I want to hear "if you do "x" then "y" will happen". Like when I was in CBT... you are having flashbacks then you do grounding techniques, over time it gets easier and they go away.

Sounds like it worked for you (and apparently has for many others as well). Did you know it would work for you the first time you tried it, though? Or did you only find out through trying it what a grounding technique even was and how to tell when you were doing it right?

I picture trying to tell someone else about grounding techniques, only what they hear is different from what you're trying to say, so maybe they come out of the situation saying "Don't tell me about that grounding techniques stuff! I tried it and it didn't work!" Maybe sometime much later they try something under a different name, it does work for them, and they find themselves saying, "Hey, that sounds kind of like those 'grounding techniques' Omers was trying to tell me about. You don't suppose...? Nah, it couldn't be! "

Unfortunately I am currently in a far more complicated place in my healing journey.

I don't know exactly where you are or what you're dealing with, but I wouldn't be surprised if what you needed to do next turned out to be as simple and obvious (once you'd found it and done it and were looking back) as the grounding techniques are for you now.

I usually describe what I do as "putting one foot in front of the other". I suspect, though, that that's just what I focus on at the time so I won't interfere too much with whatever I'm really doing "in the background" to get me through the situation. A grounding technique, if you like!

[(JD)]

I said: Quote:
I think one of the main drawbacks --other than the lack of support which all need-- and one reason why I'm participating here is that others see and read the countering of views and then they fear posting. (for surely if I have been here so long, etc and this occurs to me, they don't feel they could do it)

ygrec said:

An important point! Some people may well be scared away from a thread in which people feel free to disagree with each other. They'd be hurt if someone disagreed with their ideas. That's a very, very common trait in our society (and it does differ from society to society). I think those people who fear being contradicted should follow such threads and see what happens. No one really gets hurt in such a back-and-forth. No contrary comment is a put-down or insult directed at the person, the self of a poster.

It's like playing volleyball, where now and then members of the same team on one side of the net bump into each other. The point is getting the ball back over the net, not hurting fellow team members. So after reading several such "discussion" threads I would hope the fearful person realizes that it's not such a big deal, that there really isn't any real danger, that just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they hate you or even dislike you or look down on you. "You" are not equivalent to "your idea."

Thanks!

Unfortunately this does occur

No one really gets hurt in such a back-and-forth. No contrary comment is a put-down or insult directed at the person, the self of a poster.

and I think it's an important point. Everyone who has been on any social forum website has experienced direct put downs. DocJohn made PC different in making those against guidelines.
However, anyone who has mixed it up here has been the brunt of such attacks, and probably shared in giving some out, whether intentional or not. It happens.

I think most of us, in general, try to ignore the comment and see past it, trying to give the poster an excuse for "misswording" their post? Even when it occurs again from the same member, or group of members, if things are going okay in my life, I can still over look it. There have been times when I'm told to put someone on ignore when I didn't realize there was any issue at all...so obviously in that case, it's about the other member.

Omer said

I am not feeling well and tend to intellectualize more and hang in my head more... which leads to saying things in much more complicated ways than are helpful.

I identify with this. I live with chronic pain and while there are days my pain is manageable, it's still there. I do think some take offense or are confused from some of my comments because of this.

If a negative comment from someone who disagrees with the whole thread and really ought not to be posting in it, hits me hard, then it's down hill from there for me. On days when I'm really feeling unfit for human consumption I try to not be here...just so I don't get into conflicts. But often those are the very days I NEED to be here and have some company.

I try to use the "mood" indicator and read others too...but since it's so new to the site, I don't think everyone is really using or paying attention to it. Just like the epitaph of "I told you I was sick" makes a point, anything I say that is taken offensively should be exonerated if I have a warning Mood indicator showing.

One thing that in my POV is good is to take every post at face value. Don't try to think that what the person is saying is not true ... or anything other than what they post. If I know the member and know they post "like that" alot (as if I can recall!) it should not have any bearing on their need for support from that post itself. I try to accept that what they are saying is true for them, how they are feeling is real to them, and it really doesn't matter if it is otherwise... a supportive response accepts the post at face value, and not read into. (Don't try and read between the lines to what you think they are saying...ask them!) Sometimes I'll couch it in a question, "Did you really mean to say that..."

Another thing that occurs is other telling another member what they (the other member, not herself) are doing and why they are posting etc. That's called "mindreading" and it's a cognitive distortion. It falls on the heels of not taking a post at face value. Regardless of the thread, if someone posts trying to tell me what I was thinking and the "hidden message" behind my posts, well sometimes it irks me and sometimes it makes me shake my head in laughter. But it doesn't support.

Of course, no one is perfect, and I am in that grouping. (And I don't just say that...) If I were totally able to consistently give great responses, I would be back in private practice making a living. Sometimes I do mix concepts up in my mind; I'm sure other members do as well. Ygrec, you are doing a great job on this thread...and I'm glad those participating are in general trying to add to it and cooperate. But I also identify with those who feel "if I started this thread" or "if I said that" it would have become argumentative and the thread locked. It's the nature of the beast of some disorders I guess, once you picture someone as a friend or enemy, it's difficult to find a different perspective perhaps? It's not whining, it's just the truth. It happens. (Which may also lead to a part of the topic we can't discuss, but that we have to remember that the ways and methods of the community moderation team are also contingent on what kinds of day they're having IRL and at PC.) They are human too.

I really do try to separate the disorder from the member, in my mind. No one, imo, is their disorder. I even work at not falling into the habit others have when talking about themselves as being "bipolar" or whatever. No, to me they are a person with bipolar disorder. Disorders are not who we are, and I think supporting that perspective can help the member regain some control.

I guess the bottom line for me in responding is determining just what kind of response is wanted, and trying to give them positive regard along with a tidbit to move them forward (and hope it's accepted.)

[Ygrec23]

Sunrise said:

When I start a thread, I like people to respond to my question, but I also kind of like people to share from their own experience, in relation to what I posted. It helps me to hear how others handled similar issues in their own lives. (I know some people don't want to hear about others' experiences as they consider it off topic, but I don't mind it, especially if they can relate it to my topic.)

Yes. I agree, Sunrise. I like to hear about other people's experiences. It's very helpful to me. And I hope it's helpful to them when I share my own experiences. In fact, I think it's more helpful than anything else they could say. It's more helpful (to me) than any there-there, pet-pet comments. And it's a LOT more helpful than being told: here, go read this article (insert link). Of course, I have to agree with you when you said that any comment at all is a plus, just in the sense that someone else cares enough to stop and say anything!

Take care!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Omers

Quantitative is a big word for measurable

Thanks for explaining, Omers. It's not so much that the word is too big but I didn't know what that would look like in a response to a post--the type of response you like to get. I thought maybe it meant you were looking for a large number of posts in response to yours, but I see now this is not it. If someone responded to you in the quantitative way that you would like, what would it look like? I think that is really the question I meant to ask the first time around. From what you wrote about what you like in therapy, it seems like would you like someone to post something in your threads like, "Omers, if you are having anxiety, meditate quietly for a short period, then see if your anxiety has gone down." That would be suggesting an approach with an outcome that can be measured. Hope I have understood now!

[Open Eyes]

I have to say, this has been a really good thread I have been wondering a lot of things in my journey here at PC and as I read through these posts it has really put me at ease about a lot of things. I have to be honest that because of the way this PTSD has manifested in me, it is also a depressive disorder or brain injury or whatever (I am still trying to define it) but sometimes when I post there is this little thought in the back of my mind that says "Why do you bother, no one wants to hear what you have to say, your stupid". And through therapy and looking back I know where that comes from and how that developed and it makes me very depressed and angry too because I realize how much I struggled being the youngest of two abusive siblings and there is so much that is so hard to look at. So, I actually know intimately that personal battle of to say or not say and what if and how, as Foolze puts it one sometimes needs to hear more of a possible way to pull out of that pit? I know that I have a lot of triggers that circle around my efforts to express myself and what I think and I have noticed in therapy that they have been there pretty much all my life.

In my married life alone, having a child,and being married to an alcoholic and all that entailed, I had to present such a strong presense in so many ways, but inside, I was truely terrified and so insecure. So when someone conveys that they are lost and alone and frightened and overwhelmed and even depressed, I can really relate to what they are feeling, how much I needed someone there, how much I would have loved to have someplace like this to come to.
I prayed and prayed for a voice like the voices that are here in PC and I did that so much in the last 31 years of marriage, and many difficult years before that.

And when I post, as others have mentioned here, I give what I so needed at different times in my life. And Foolze, your right, it works both ways for the one that posts and the one that is asking for help, hopefully both fill a need in the exchange.

There is a lot more to the simple process of posting a question and posting an answer, no, it is more than just a click and a tapping of keys.

I look forward to all input here in this thread.

Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

Sunrise said:

Yes. I agree, Sunrise. I like to hear about other people's experiences. It's very helpful to me. And I hope it's helpful to them when I share my own experiences. In fact, I think it's more helpful than anything else they could say. It's more helpful (to me) than any there-there, pet-pet comments. And it's a LOT more helpful than being told: here, go read this article (insert link). Of course, I have to agree with you when you said that any comment at all is a plus, just in the sense that someone else cares enough to stop and say anything!

Take care!

I don't always agree with you on this point Ygrec, because I do know a couple of people that have answered questions or have seen a couple of people conveying the same issue and stuggling and the poster put in a link to read and it was a really good link. And what I respected about that poster is that they didn't just take the information in that link and make it like it was their own knowledge or advice. They were honest and in some ways said, me too, heres what helped me and then posted the link.

I have noticed that some members here that have been here longer have really taken to heart some common questions, even some of their own questions, and researched and found really good links and articles addressing solutions to some issues. And I consider them extremely valuable members that take extra time on their own to research and find possible solutions and studies. Some of those articles really helped me a lot. And it provides something more than just answering cries for help on a personal level it brings in real information and things to ponder for all.

Open Eyes

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

I don't always agree with you on this point Ygrec, because I do know a couple of people that have answered questions or have seen a couple of people conveying the same issue and stuggling and the poster put in a link to read and it was a really good link. And what I respected about that poster is that they didn't just take the information in that link and make it like it was their own knowledge or advice. They were honest and in some ways said, me too, heres what helped me and then posted the link.

I have noticed that some members here that have been here longer have really taken to heart some common questions, even some of their own questions, and researched and found really good links and articles addressing solutions to some issues. And I consider them extremely valuable members that take extra time on their own to research and find possible solutions and studies. Some of those articles really helped me a lot. And it provides something more than just answering cries for help on a personal level it brings in real information and things to ponder for all. Open Eyes

Sorry, Open Eyes, for what I said. I appreciate your explanation and have changed my mind based on what you've written above. I too have posted links here (regarding medication costs) and I do hope they've helped some people. You are quite right. Links can be very helpful indeed. Take care!

[Open Eyes]

Ygrec23,
What you just did now is also an excellent post. If only others in my life had the courage to do that, think, consider, and come back and not only say, yes, I was wrong, your right, but actually say what was said wrong. That is a validation that many people that come to PC look for in their lives outside PC. I felt it so many times in my life, and I hear others say that in PC in so many different ways all the time, even in the self talk forums.

And that is another kind of post I answer, I always try to validate those people in some way, because I know how deeply they need that.

Open Eyes

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

If the point of the thread is to improve support, I am for it. I am not sure, however, whether there will be a consensus on what should be done to make the improvement.

For all I know, having a good dialogue about it could make as much difference or more as reaching a consensus.

Stoopid example: Once upon a time there was a consensus that the world was flat. Well, maybe there wasn't really, but when I was in grade school there was a consensus that there had been. The world always has been, and always will be, whatever shape it is. Our consensus about it doesn't affect it at all, only makes us feel better about knowing whatever we know (or think we know). It seems as though we've managed to learn a lot more about the shape of the world during the times we've disagreed about it than during the times we've managed to reach and hold onto a consensus.

I figure that whatever we come up with as the "rule" of how best (or worst) to support someone, there'll always be the occasional exception. Fairly often, I've found myself in the position of the "exception." For instance, I've arrived at some sites to a feisty welcome or even unwelcome, staked out my claim to be there, and later even felt that much more a part of the site for having fought my way aboard, as it were. Other times I've been kindly welcomed, felt like I was being treated with kid gloves (what the heck are kid gloves, anyway?) -- and soon lost interest.

One thing I like about a dialogue is that we do sometimes get to hear from points of view outside whatever might be the mainstream view at the time.

[(JD)]

Probably a very important understanding is that there ARE different posting philosophies!

Fooze said:

later even felt that much more a part of the site for having fought my way aboard, as it were.

When I first came to Psych Central I posted to people directly but in generalities, to try and fit in and also have my posts apply to more readers. I was condemned harshly And I was informed by the "concensus" that I was to make "I statement" so that it didn't sound like I was being authoritative.

So then I began making posts with "I statements"... and was promptly regarded as an arrogant snert who was so conceited she always put herself first and in the poster's position.

What to do? I stayed anyway.