[FooZe]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

But do those in pain, or who have been in pain, who are reading this thread-opener, have anything else to tell us that could help us improve what we do when we respond to messages for help? A little bit more of this? A bit less of that? Or have we wound up in The Goldilocks Zone, as the astronomers say, where everything as it is right now is just right?

How about the (as Sly Stone put it, I think) Different Strokes for Different Folks zone?

[Caretaker Leo]

Have been checking in all day to see how others have responded to the original questions presented by Ygrec23 and I am glad this topic came up.

If this was still a very small community (100 or less), perhaps the answer might be a thread where new and returning members could post their thoughts about what type of assistance they are looking for. But this site is so huge that it doesn't seem realistic (to me) to try to do that.

So, I will continue on as I have from the start. I will welcome new people and let them know this is a great community full of support. I will visit the forums where I believe I might possibly have some experience with the issues someone has posted.

I will continue to read much more than I post. If I do respond, it will usually be in a way that lets a person know I have gone through a similar issue and here is what has worked for me or what I am trying to do myself to handle my issue.

Finally, I will continue to keep my posts relatively short. I would rather come back and post another short post than try to wade through long ones that remind me of college lectures. (No offense intended towards those who write long posts - just my personal reaction).

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by (JD)

When I first came to Psych Central I posted to people directly but in generalities, to try and fit in and also have my posts apply to more readers. I was condemned harshly And I was informed by the "concensus" that I was to make "I statement" so that it didn't sound like I was being authoritative.

So then I began making posts with "I statements"... and was promptly regarded as an arrogant snert who was so conceited she always put herself first and in the poster's position.

What to do? I stayed anyway.

hmmm, JD, perhaps post in the third person?

[elliemay]

I guess my single philosophy is that anything that carries the description of brutal - such as brutally honest etc... likely will not be received as supportive or helpful at all.

[arcangel]

When I respond, I simply tell the truth in what I see. If the poster isn't looking for honesty then I'm fine with that. The poster can and will find someone to share and reinforce their view and tell them what they want to hear. That won't help in the long run but apparently it does what the poster was hoping it would do.
If what I say rubs the "compassionate" and the "wise" the wrong way then I'm fine with that too.

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by FooZe

How about the (as Sly Stone put it, I think) Different Strokes for Different Folks zone?

Yes, the mere fact that we are all so unique there are always going to be different needs and ideas about how to handle those needs. Even in this very thread, look at all the different ways members experience this process offered to them by PC. I have to say it has helped me look at people from a very different perspective. Geez, wouldn't it be boring if everyone was the same, what would there be to talk about?

(I hope you keep sending me those pictures missbelle cause I really enjoy them)

( I still like the idea of a library Byz and many of your quotes are my thought for the day instead of ruminating on past events)

(I am still reading your advice and good links you put up madisgram)

(And I found a really nice warm place to visit where there is nothing but kind warm comforting thoughts greylove)

(JD, inspite of knowing what you deal with in the PTSD, I am insired that even though you have experienced a real brain injury you keep trying)

(Ygre23, it is nice to know some people can appologize and want to know how better to help others)

I could go on and on, but I do have to say Viva la Differance. ( I may have spelled that wrong but I just wanted you to know I know I am definitely not perfect and sorry to say neither are you) If we were, we would not be here.

Open Eyes

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by arcangel

When I respond, I simply tell the truth in what I see. If the poster isn't looking for honesty then I'm fine with that. The poster can and will find someone to share and reinforce their view and tell them what they want to hear. That won't help in the long run but apparently it does what the poster was hoping it would do.
If what I say rubs the "compassionate" and the "wise" the wrong way then I'm fine with that too.

Well, I'm very glad that you don't let your ego get in the way of trying to help. That indeed would be quite unfortunate.

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

The central aim and purpose of all of our activity here on PC is to write and post things that aid, succor and comfort new or older members who bring with them to these pages pain, misery and sometimes bewilderment for which we, as non-professionals, can offer some degree of compassion, sympathy and direction. Yeah. That's what we do, or try to do. In our several and different ways.

But closer reading of tens of thousands of PC posts reveals that different members have different philosophies (conscious or unconscious) of HOW it is best (or most desirable, or most effective) for us to offer that compassion, sympathy or direction.

There are many, many, different kinds and levels of helpful posts. Some writers prefer what might be called a minimalist approach, enclosing in their messages as much practical information as possible but as little of their own personal feelings as they can. Others restrict themselves only to their own feelings, their sympathy, their compassion. Still others spend significant time describing how they too have experienced situations and feelings similar to those expressed by the writer of the call for help.

From the point of view of the RECIPIENTS of such aid and comfort messages (probably the majority of us at one time or another), the point of view of new members or old members posting the original calls for help, are any of these different modes of responding better, more helpful than others? Is it a matter of personal taste on the part of those who are hurting? Or are all of these different types of responses equally helpful in informing those in pain that there are folks here who truly feel not only for them but with them?

Of course, the vast majority of PC members do their absolute personal best to compose and post messages as helpful as possible for those in pain and distress. But do those in pain, or who have been in pain, who are reading this thread-opener, have anything else to tell us that could help us improve what we do when we respond to messages for help? A little bit more of this? A bit less of that? Or have we wound up in The Goldilocks Zone, as the astronomers say, where everything as it is right now is just right? Take care!

Unfortunately, I think the "Goldilocks Zone" is somewhere close to Oz and not accessable to us, mere mortals. Nothing will ever be "just right" as we all have different wants and needs.
I believe that, depending on the person in need of support any or all of the above can help.
Good post!

and re reading my post I feel like puking...It's all subjective. If someone gets comfort from what we say, then, good. If not, that's life. I'd personally like it if certain threads actually SAW me there; I don't really care what they say to me, but to be acknowledged is important.

Effective communication is a skill that takes work, experience and perseverance to achieve. A question always in the back of my mind is what is the communication intended to achieve?

The Community Guidelines tell us: "This is, first and foremost, a self-help support community. That means if your message (post or PM) isn't about offering support to another person or asking for it, it's potentially not appropriate for our community."

"Offering support," therefore, is a requisite to posting philosophies. There are many definitions and nuances to consider when determining what "support" means in the context of this site: http://www.onelook.com/?w=support&ls=a

The lack of consensus about what it means to "offer support" makes improving the level of support being offered more difficult. I view offering support as help and kindness that you give to someone who is having a difficult time. If I cannot be helpful and kind, I do not respond.

These links may pique your interests in the context of philosophical approaches to support:

http://www.mentalhealthpeers.com/pdf...portUnique.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_support

[Yoda]

Byz, you always seems to find helpful resources to post. I like that.

[Open Eyes]

Well I did read the article Byz and it did have some good suggestions, but sometimes there is so much about the educational aspects of this Specialist went here and did that, that it can sometimes be a brain weight, I really like to get to the message.

And I think about that when I read posts or post myself, and I do think about trying to provide someone with opting out of how they have somehow made a decision they are no good anymore and are going to be doomed for life and so on.

To be honest, sometimes members present some strong ways of defending their illnesses and life views that are negetive. And often I would like to say to that person, "Your message today is very negetive, and even extremely suggestive of how life is forever going to be terrible, could you please try to put out more incentive provoking thoughts?"

I have to admitt that I don't always say it directly to the person and I do try to present some thoughts that person could read that may incourage that person to change that presentation on their own. Some people, as I have found with children,
can be very stubborn about changing their negetive outlooks. It sometimes draws a picture in my head of that person standing as a defiant child saying "This is my bad mood teddy bear and don't you touch it, it is mine".

I have often taken on children that are stubborn about learning and making efforts to give themselves the right to try, or courage to try. My own daughter presented that to me many times, as well as to her teachers, especially about reading. She would walk by a message board put up to encourage the class to read and simply say, "Oh, I am not going to read that" and walk away, and not even try. And the truth was that my daughter had a disability that made that task very hard. Her brain could not do this task in a normal way, and even though she was young somehow she knew it.

Everytime I worked with these difficult situations I gave options and presented positive ways of getting around the "BAD TEDDY BEAR" and trying anyway and, "OK, YOU CAN BRING YOUR BAD TEDDY BEAR WITH YOU BUT LETS SEE ABOUT TRYING THIS BECAUSE I SEE SOME REAL POSSIBILIES IN YOU DOING MUCH BETTER WITHOUT THAT BAD TEDDY BEAR."

I have to admit that one of the most difficult forums that I see here is the forum for DEPRESSION. And I did make the mistake of going there last night because I saw a name that I really care about. And basically the list of people there and the line after line after line of discussion about this one very "BAD TEDDY BEAR" was a bit overwhelming for me. And there were "NO" encouraging thoughts "AT ALL".

Now, I DO know personally how very difficult this area of "MENTAL HEALTH" can be.
I do stuggle with MY OWN TEDDY BEARS, but I also know that "IT IS NOT A WARM FUZZY TEDDY BEAR AT ALL" so I do my best to try not to "HUG IT AND GIVE IT AFFECTION". So, even though I had my own way of describing my Teddy Bear,
I could not bring myself to "HUGGING IT WITH OTHERS". Instead I talk about different ways that Teddy Bear came to me and how I am working my way through even though it is there. If anything I really try hug to hug a different "TEDDY BEAR THAT IS HOPE, MUCH MORE PROMISING, AND THOUGH IT MAY NOT BE FULL OF STUFFING, I AM WORKING ON "SLOWY" STUFFING IT AND MAKING IT MORE HUGGABLE.

As a support person here at PC ask yourself how you may contribute to that as well.
The one thing that did resinate with me amongst all the hooplah of studies and credentials in that article that is presented by the Byz., is just a few lines that expressed possible ways to do exactly what I am talking about and try to do.

Yes arcangel, I do understand your weariness in seeing some people only talk about
"THEIR TEDDY BEARS EVERY WAY THEY CAN AND HOW THEY CONTINUE TO HUG IT AND DEFEND IT". "BUT" I also know that sometimes just being honest and direct doesn't work. Are you being direct and yet in being direct "HOLDING ONTO YOUR TEDDY BEAR JUST AS TIGHTLY?" Or is your approach to that person just another invitation to give them more reason "TO HOLD THEIR TEDDY BEAR TIGHTER?"

All members have to consider "WHERE WE ARE" when we come to PC. And arcangel, I am often a challenging case, but you "CAN" and "HAVE" had the "SKILL TO ENCOURAGE ME TO LET GO OF MY TEDDY BEAR".

Open Eyes

[Perna]

I try to read the original post and reply to that person only or, in longer threads like this one; I might read more of the original poster's responses, to see if the original poster has moved further on in their thinking or circumstances but I think I am often tempted by the "subject" and other responses rather than the original person's question or concern.

I think in longer threads things can get muddled and those who don't read to get a sense of where the original poster is can confuse and create difficulties for all readers by responding to other than the original poster (and not making that clear) or responding to something in themselves that the subject matter or other responses elicit which isn't germane to the original poster's interests or need.

[Open Eyes]

Ygre23, you have presented a topic that is really taking on a way to think about what our personal clicking and tapping can mean.

And I did thank you for stuffing my "POSITIVE TEDDY BEAR THAT REALLY NEEDS SOME STUFFING". And I have seen "QUALITIES" in many different members of PC that can do just that. And I have named a few of those people but there are others too that I could easily mention.

In my first few weeks here at PC I met someone who was really struggling. And that person said to me "I feel guilty, I hug my computer that holds PC every day like a teddy bear, maybe I shouldn't do that, what does that mean, am I that bad....sobbing?" And I could understand what she was saying because I was doing that too and wondering if it was such a good thing and had I gone crazy? And my reply to her was, no, you must really need and if that is the case give yourself permission to fill your own needs.

And little by little I saw this person giving herself permission to embrace PC like a "TEDDY BEAR" and proceed. And little by little she quietly talked about her struggles and I could see some positive ideas and solutions being presented to her. And little by little she was very thankful and kept trying. And I was doing the same and then I started hearing some support myself and meeting some members that presented some options and even some challenges to me. And because my "BAD TEDDY BEAR WAS HUGGING ME, AND I WAS ALSO FRIGHTENED", for probably the first time in my life I truely began to "SLOWLY" work on adding stuffing to
a much better teddy bear. And one thing I had in common with this woman is that we were both very good at handing out "GOOD TEDDY BEARS TO OTHERS" but somehow were slowly taking the stuffing out of our own "GOOD TEDDY BEARS".

Two days ago I suddenly saw her in a different light, I could really see that even though she was only just slowly stuffing her "GOOD TEDDY BEAR",
there was enough stuffing in it and she was really starting to "HUG HER NEW TEDDY BEAR". I was really impressed by how much stuffing she had managed to put in that new teddy bear. And I made sure I told her how much I admired that "NEW TEDDY BEAR". And today she is taking that "NEW TEDDY BEAR WITH HER ON AN INTERVIEW FOR A JOB THAT DEEP IN MY HEART I KNOW WOULD BE PERFECT FOR HER". And I really hope she will do well as she so deserves it, but if she does not get that job, it is my hope that she will continue to "STUFF THAT NEW TEDDY BEAR". Because I am seeing a "REALLY BEAUTIFUL TEDDY BEAR". And, it is reminding me
to keep stuffing the teddy bear that I am working on too.

So Ygre23, maybe a good thing to do as anyone decides to enter in their code to bring him/her to PC everyday, before he/she does that consider what "TEDDY BEAR" that he/she is hugging onto that day and how that person can talk about "THE BAD TEDDY BEAR" and how he/she is making efforts to continue to stuff "A MUCH BETTER TEDDY BEAR". How do you bring and present and reinforce and even stuff "THAT BAD TEDDY BEAR"? How can you make attempts to truely add stuffing to a better bear "FOR YOURSELF THAT DAY" as well as encouraging others do "TRUELY" do the same?

Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by Perna

I try to read the original post and reply to that person only or, in longer threads like this one; I might read more of the original poster's responses, to see if the original poster has moved further on in their thinking or circumstances but I think I am often tempted by the "subject" and other responses rather than the original person's question or concern.

I think in longer threads things can get muddled and those who don't read to get a sense of where the original poster is can confuse and create difficulties for all readers by responding to other than the original poster (and not making that clear) or responding to something in themselves that the subject matter or other responses elicit which isn't germane to the original poster's interests or need.

Yes Perna, long threads can be difficult to follow and can lend to a slow brew. And sometimes a thread can lend to an array of personal arguements and slowly get off topic, and sadly the thread is closed because of that.

But I have noticed that you have the ability to bring it back to topic many times and you are a valuable member by doing that. I always like to read what you have to say.

Open Eyes

[lynn P.]

I'm with missbelle - this is all too complicated. My responses are varied and depend on the thread topic.

[Open Eyes]

Well lets ask the op and see what he thinks Lynn. Ygre23, are we all providing you with good answers to your thread? Are we tiring you out and complicating a simple process?

Because if I am not adding anything helpful, I will put my efforts elsewhere and we can just end right here with Lynns statement. Basically just post a varied response to different threads.

Open Eyes

[lynn P.]

My response isn't to your post Open Eyes or to anyone's really. It's to the OP and too hard to put it in a neat box. No offense intended.

[Open Eyes]

Thank you Lynn, but that was my point, there is no neat box. But there are a lot of neat ideas here and some good suggestions. And an opportunity for members to state some of what goes into the way they post, look at posting, and try to accomplish that may be of a supportive nature to both the op and the person posting to that op.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with the OP's question. I actually admire him for even asking instead of just assuming his way of posting was the best way of posting and participating in PC.

Your a good poster Lynn and it comes natuarally to you and you don't have the personal issues that others have, maybe that is what makes it easier for you in some ways. But for some (and I did look up Ygre23's issues) it may just be more of an effort and this thread can put them at ease in some way, it did put me at ease.
And it also allowed me to get to know Ygre23 better, and you know what, I like him and I have seen a good side of him that just wants to be a better member. And I am very impressed that he has admitted some errors he has made.

Personally, I like to see what others think about how they use PC and what it means to them or even someone who has been here longer and might learn a new approach that may help him/her utalize PC better and maybe look at it differently. I think this is a good thread to anyone new or fairly new or even members who have never really been validated somehow here at PC. I would have liked to have read it when I came here, I like reading it now. Sometimes a simple question in a thread can be like an open door for an opportunity to get to know other members better and also learn some things. And I really liked how Ygre23 talked to each poster and considered their input. And to me that is being a good host and a good example of how to socialize within a group by including everyone in that group.

And actually, that is what a good therapist would do because that is good therapy.

Open Eyes

[lynn P.]

Well I never said its not a good question and its just my opinion - that's its difficult to encapsulate all the different styles.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by FooZe

One thing I like about a dialogue is that we do sometimes get to hear from points of view outside whatever might be the mainstream view at the time.

And for me that's the point: gathering understanding and tips from others on different ways of attacking the problem that I hadn't thought of before, or had prejudices against. I take the guidelines here seriously, would like to put them as effectively into effect as I can, and that probably means learning to support people in ways I haven't yet thought of. Hearing about not only how others do it, but their reasons and thinking for doing so, is a tremendous help! Take care.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by (JD)

Probably a very important understanding is that there ARE different posting philosophies! So then I began making posts with "I statements"... and was promptly regarded as an arrogant snert who was so conceited she always put herself first and in the poster's position. What to do? I stayed anyway.

Dear (JD),

Exactly! We all ought to have available to us information from everyone on the different ways of writing support posts, with the understanding that there IS NO ONE WAY. We're all different in many different ways, and I'm sure no one at PC is trying to make us all conform to one single way of thinking or doing things. (That HAS happened at other such sites I've participated in!) Take care!

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by Caretaker Leo

If this was still a very small community (100 or less), perhaps the answer might be a thread where new and returning members could post their thoughts about what type of assistance they are looking for. But this site is so huge that it doesn't seem realistic (to me) to try to do that.

I wonder, Leo, I really wonder. What you are talking of here sounds to me really like a suggestion box, and I think it's a great idea. I must say that I can't really see why a suggestion box wouldn't work, even with a site as immense as PC. After all, no one would be forced to contribute. It would exist simply as an outlet for those who are less than entirely satisfied with the way they are not only welcomed, but informed about the basic topography of PC and what it has to offer. I would LOVE to read the contents of such a box!

I realize full well that almost all of us find out about PC and what it has to offer simply by wandering around and investigating. But I'm conscious of the fact that such a manner of proceeding may not be appropriate for those who when they first arrive are hanging on to reality by the tips of their fingers and may need more help than most of the rest of us. And when and if they DO stabilize they can perhaps give us some interesting pointers to help others in their situation when they first arrive here.

Please rethink your idea, flesh it out, and come back and post it here! Take care!

[Ygrec23]

I think it IS that simple if you want to limit yourself to your own way of thinking and doing things. But there's a world of PC people out there, all different, with different ideas and methods and insights. I'm not so happy just sticking with my personal way of doing things. I'd like to know about others' ways of doing things so I can supplement what I do based on others' insights. To me, that's how to grow and progress. But there's nothing wrong with simply sticking to your own way. Take care.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by arcangel

When I respond, I simply tell the truth in what I see. If the poster isn't looking for honesty then I'm fine with that. The poster can and will find someone to share and reinforce their view and tell them what they want to hear. That won't help in the long run but apparently it does what the poster was hoping it would do.

I'm with you, arcangel. T may have to tell them what they don't want to hear. I don't think that's our job as fellow members of PC who are neither professionals nor in a professional setting. If someone arrives in bad shape, as many of course do, what they need at that instant can be very different indeed from what they may need from T six months later. In a sense, PC is more related to an ER than to a T's office. And a long distance ER where all we have to go on is what the newby has to say for themselves.

If what I say rubs the "compassionate" and the "wise" the wrong way then I'm fine with that too.

Why would you anticipate a "wrong way" response? Is there a "wrong way" response when providing verbal comfort and support to someone in distress? Other than the "brutalities" that someone has already mentioned in this thread and ruled out, I would think that almost anything goes. No?

Take care.