[sorrel]

I am saddened by the amount of 'bashing' of people with personality disorders that is going on around the forums, particularly of symptoms on the Narcissistic personality spectrum.

It makes me feel that here is another forum where it isn't safe for people who have those kinds of early developmental wounding.

Hello, sorrel. You have the option of reporting those who ignore the guidelines.

[FooZe]

Sorrel, if you'll point out some examples of what you mean, we'll be happy to check if they're within guidelines or not. You can either PM someone on the Community Support Team or click on the "Report" button (the or icon at the left of every post).

[sorrel]

Because some have been around a while, I assumed that they were seen as ok. But I'll do so for the more recent ones, thanks.

[StrongerMan]

Just my opinion, but... I do not see how bashing the disorder and its toxic behaviors is personally bashing the people who have it. That said, I will choose more wisely where I post my negative opinions of this disorder. But I will not walk on eggshells around here and worry that someone will take my opinions personally. I've walked on enough eggshells due to N's in my life.

[sorrel]

Thank you for expressing your perspective.
You do need to bear in mind that, for the most part, this is a site for people living with and sometimes struggling from their own mental illness symptoms. And, just like you, we are sensitive.

Originally Posted by StrongerMan

Just my opinion, but... I do not see how bashing the disorder and its toxic behaviors is personally bashing the people who have it. That said, I will choose more wisely where I post my negative opinions of this disorder. But I will not walk on eggshells around here and worry that someone will take my opinions personally. I've walked on enough eggshells due to N's in my life.

Just a thought... Why don't you express your negative feelings about a specific person with that disorder (not necessarily using their name, but indicating that it is a certain person), instead of generalising the behaviour?

[Flooded]

or go to therapy where you can vent your spleen and your therapist can help you with your hurt feelings..

[lynn P.]

I'm not taking sides here but I think I know what's the problem - there are some members who've been hurt by people IRL who have personality disorders. Then there's members who may have PD's who are seeking support in the SAME forum who also need support. Also typically ...some PD's have a stigma of taking advantage of some people IRL. So the question still remains - how to balance the two.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by lynn P.

I'm not taking sides here but I think I know what's the problem - there are some members who've been hurt by people IRL who have personality disorders. Then there's members who may have PD's who are seeking support in the SAME forum who also need support. Also typically ... some PD's have a stigma of taking advantage of some people IRL. So the question still remains - how to balance the two.

I agree with lynn. There's a fine line distinguishing PD's and the people suffering from them. It's entirely understandable that some people may feel aggrieved by those who have a particular PD. And express that resentment here. Fine. That's quite different from taking it out on real individuals (particularly members of PC) who suffer from that PD. If you have a problem with a particular PD as a diagnosis, why not make that plain? If your problem is with a particular individual suffering from that diagnosis (who is in all probability NOT a member of PC), why not so state?

I've got a PD myself. But I haven't faced this problem. However, I can well understand the situation of those who have faced it. And it's really not fair. Not fair for them to be blamed for the conduct of others. There are entire universes of individuals within every single diagnosis. We're not dealing with McDonald's hamburgers here, people. God's little snowflakes, you know. How would YOU like to be treated? Let's chill and think about how best to treat each other on a supposedly mutual help site like PC!

[Rose76]

Sorrel,

I haven't seen the postings which you are referencing. However, I am aware of the stigma that often gets attached to Axis II disorders, i.e. Personality Disorders. I think it is one of the biggest problems in mental health care.

I want to thank you for choosing the following words: ". . . early developmental wounding." That is a phrase I had not heard before. I think it very sensitively and accurately characterizes what has happened to those suffering from personality disorders, especially narcissistic tendencies.

I also want to thank Ygrec23 for the phrasing: "God's little snowflakes," which is a beautiful metaphor that I had never heard before.

I once heard a mental healthcare worker suggest that any one of us could very possibly qualify for, at the least, a diagnosis of PD NOS. That suggestion resonated favorably with me.

[lynn P.]

In the Relationship section there's a subforum for Partners With Personality Disorders, where partners or former partners who've been adversely affected by a person with a PD could vent there. This is located here:

http://forums.psychcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=132

The other forum ideally would be for members who have a PD and wants support or who wants to learn more about it. This same conflict has happened in the antisocial forum and psychopath forum.

[sorrel]

Thanks for your thoughts and support everyone. It means a lot.

[Christina86]

If you find anyone discussing something you feel is against guidelines, please do "Report" the post or PM a moderator or administrator with a link to the post so we can examine it.

The Personality Disorders subforums are for people dealing with them (personality disorders) themselves, not for others to be discussing the issues of dealing with a person who may/may not have that disorder. If someone wishes to discuss the issues of dealing with someone who has a personality disorder, it should be done in the Relationships forum or the subforum that has been created there if applicable (we also have a Caregivers forum as well). The forums are for mutual support, not for "bashing" someone who has a personality disorder - or any other issue either. I hope that helps.

Cheers!

[sorrel]

Thanks Christina.

I did report the recent ones.

[Travelinglady]

As someone who grew up with parents with personality disorders (an "N" as I see people calling the person here and BPD), I personally know the pain they can cause. I also developed a personality disorder (BPD), and I have struggled in years of therapy to try to overcome it. I've seen it as a worse diagnosis in a lot of ways than my bipolar. There's so much stigma attached to it. Even by clinicians.

I'm trying to remember if I have ever said anything here that might be offensive. I hope not. I try not to.

I am glad that people such as you with these disorders are seeking help and support here. I agree that "bashing" them and thus me, too, is particularly heinous.

BTW, I am so thrilled to report that my last two therapists and most recent psychiatrist say they do not perceive me as having BPD anymore. I still have some remnants, such as extreme sensitivity to rejection, but not enough to still be labeled.

Despite even what some older clinicians want to claim, personality disorders can be treated!

I agree with much of what's been said here. Like Payne, I grew up with dysfunctional parenting. A narcissistic mother, a (probably) bipolar father, and a whole string of alcoholic/addict step-fathers and other men in my mother's life, who never officially tied the knot and became a step-father, but who lived and slept with her, and therefore were afforded the same rank and privileges. I don't even know how many there were, in total. All of them were abusive, physically in most cases, emotionally in all cases, and sexually in one case. Why did she allow it? Because she didn't care what was happening to her children as long as she had a man in her bed at night. She was also delusional enough to think she could take some random alcoholic bum and turn him into a suitable father figure. Several of her men, in fact, had been literally taken into our home off the street, and then suddenly here we were, expected to call this drunken stranger Daddy and do what he said.

So, given this experience, it's hard for me to be sympathetic to N's. After all, one very nearly ruined me for life. And the only way I can stop her from continuing to damage me with her subtle cut-downs is to banish her from my life altogether. Since I have moved 3,000 miles away from her, and her influence, I have improved greatly.

This said, I do understand about stigma and bashing. BPD gets its share too. There are even therapists who won't treat us, because they consider us "gamey" and manipulative.

And above all, I agree with what Payne said, about how personality disorders can be treated. It's been my experience that personality disorders are the result of dysfunction in early life, whereas a person can have every advantage and the best of upbringings, but still end up with a psychiatric illness such as bipolar or schizophrenia. IMO that's the difference between a personality disorder, which is learned adaptive behavior and can be cured, and a psychiatric illness, which is brain chemistry-based, and can be managed with meds and therapy, but is there to stay.

[Rose76]

LovebirdsFlying,

I read your post above with interest. IMO, it may make a valid distinction, maybe. I'ld have to think on it more. But - good food for thought. I think you use the term "learned adaptive behavior" in a credible way.

Sorry you had such a dreadful childhood to endure.

The one thing I would throw out is that I suspect that the people who exploited/harmed you had more wrong with them than narcissism. That point might be academic, depending on what one means by narcissism.

I happen to know someone who is severely disordered in a narcissistic sense. This person would not harm anyone. There is a narcissistic orientation, natural to children, that some never outgrow. It can result in a person so expansively self-absorbed that one would rather eat thumb tacks than be around them, but they are not necessarily mean people.

Thank you for your feedback, Rose. In my case, the only narcissist in my past is my mother, who put her own needs for partnership ahead of the safety of her children, and allowed all of this to go on. The other adults in my childhood, yes, there was much more than narcissism going on.

I have dealt with a lot professionals who have over the years changed my diagnoses many times. I have asked them if I have been "cured" of the previously diagnosed disorder. The usual response was what I call "spin."

We all are different. Treatment that might "cure" one may not "cure" another. It would be tremendous if we each fit neatly into discrete disorder slots and one treatment fixed all. Maybe someday?

[Travelinglady]

I agree, Byz. It would be wonderful if there were a one-treatment-fits-all for every mental disorder, especially personality disorders. I have gone through many psychiatric drug combos for my bipolar even.

I comfort myself that personality disorders are mainly created because we learn to respond to certain unhealthy factors in our childhood environments in ways that help us to survive at the time. Then we carry these responses as our "personalities" into adulthood, when they are no longer appropriate or productive. For example, BPD is associated with some form of consistent severe abuse in childhood--emotional, sexual, and/or physical. We learn to fear being abandoned because we WERE in some way.

I know much of what my mother went through as a child, and it wasn't pretty. I'd be surprised had she not turned out the way she did.

It does particularly hurt, then, when we have these personality disorders, and then are made fun of, criticized, bashed, and rejected. It hurts much more than being made fun of because of bipolar disorder, I can tell you.

Okay, I guess I've had more than my say. Thanks. I just wish somehow that other people could understand, Sorrel.

[sorrel]

Thanks everyone.

Bottom line, if members here see me as 'A Narcissist' or 'A Borderline' instead of a human being who is learning to understand, navigate and manage her emotions and relationships, a woman who is seeking herself and her place in this world, then I won't continue posting on this forum.

[lynn P.]

Originally Posted by sorrel

Thanks everyone.

Bottom line, if members here see me as 'A Narcissist' or 'A Borderline' instead of a human being who is learning to understand, navigate and manage her emotions and relationships, a woman who is seeking herself and her place in this world, then I won't continue posting on this forum.

I think many in this thread do see you as a human who wants to improve and we do understand your POV. You have full right to post here at PC and I hope you will continue posting ((sorrel))You were correct to state how you feel and I validate your feelings.

[sorrel]

Thank you Lynn.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

We all are different. Treatment that might "cure" one may not "cure" another. It would be tremendous if we each fit neatly into discrete disorder slots and one treatment fixed all. Maybe someday?

I shall hope not. Otherwise some day somebody could treat me of liking women or voting for the wrong party (I already read studies on how liberal and conservative brains are different...).

We all are unique and not all of our quirks are disorders. And let's be honest, some of them ARE character flaws... And we should work on these. Be it character flaw or "disorder". I find it funny how people are ubersensitive when it comes to them and everybody has to walk on eggshells, but than they go in havoc mode... using their labels as get out of trouble free card. Not saying everybody does it, but so certainly do. And if you are hurting people and refuse to make up for it... then I have hard time feeling sympathy for you.