[(JD)]

I don't mind the advertisements here... I know they are an integral part of keeping PC free to it's members... but the scrolling ones, and the ones that "move" are really taking a toll on my screen and my eyes! It makes the rest of the page vibrate. I've tried scrolling down when it's above, but then there's another one below and so I can't find a full screen without a moving ad! I know this is fairly new addition to the site. Just wondering if there's any control over it?

[Christina86]

What advertisements?

...

Must be because of my pop-up blocker that I don't see any on this site. Could you try that? My settings are up so high I have to manually override most of them (just by pressing some keys on the keyboard so it isn't that bad) ... but it works for getting rid of 99.9% of popups.

[Raynaadi]

I see them right down by the quick reply box. I don't like them either. They seem to make the quick reply box freeze up sometimes. It was really bad on my backup slow as molasses laptop.

Sometimes hitting reload will make them go away, like right now I don't have a scrolling one, so maybe when you see one, reload the page.

You don't see any advertisements on the site?

WOW, I wish I could do that!!!!!

I'm opposed to medication advertising in general... I think that if we want INFORMED consumers and doctors then the data should be presented in an accessible way. I think that ADVERTISING isn't INFORMATION so much as PROPAGANDA, however. It encourages people to make decisions on the basis of cognitive biases and emotional associations that everybody is subject to.

I think that advertising to people who are in distress is particularly appalling because it constitutes 'taking advantage' of peoples who are vulnerable and willing to do just about anything to obtain some relief. I know that we are subjected to it on television and so forth already, but I don't think that sites (such as this) should use the 'but everybody else does' it excuse. Things won't change unless people take a stand...

But rant aside... I surely wish I could block the darned things...

You really aren't getting them? Most of the ones I get are banner adds. Pictures of attractive people and phrases such as 'Multiple Strengths can help customize a treatment plan to manage symptoms of acute manic or mixed episodes of bipolar disorder.' That is the one I'm seeing under the 'continue' and 'check spelling' links at the bottom of the post box that I'm entering text into now. If I click the 'Learn More' on the ad I find:

'About GEODON® (ziprasidone HCI)
GEODON is a medicine for the treatment of some mental illnesses. It is used for acute manic acute bipolar mania or mixed episodes associated with bipolar disorder.

Doctors believe GEODON helps balance certain natural chemicals in your brain. This, in turn, helps treat your symptoms of acute mania acute bipolar mania or a mixed episode. And that can help you feel better.

What are the signs of acute bipolar mania or a mixed episode?

During acute mania acute bipolar mania you may:

Feel overly happy
Feel hyper
Feel grouchy
Feel restless
Have difficulty concentrating'

So... 'happy, hyper, grouchy, restless, difficulty concentrating'. I'll offer a million bucks if you can find me someone who hasn't felt one or more of those things at some point in their life.

But what the hey, on with the pathologizing of normality - ho!
No wonder we are having (or working our way towards) an 'epidemic'.
Which is self defeating when it comes to parity and the like, but who cares so long as the drug companies get a little richer...

In case people are sceptical about the effects of advertising, rates of bi-polar have soared (in the US in particular) since drug companies have started to target bi-polar symptoms (helped along by the talk about removing 'borderline personality' from the DSM so that clinicians are now starting to cast that as 'rapid cycling bi-polar' or 'bi-polar II').

The phrase I have the most difficulty with is this one:
'Doctors believe GEODON helps balance certain natural chemicals in your brain'.

Really? I'd like to see the survey results on what it is that doctors believe. People should have to reference such claims when they are offering them as 'information'. Surely the appeal to authority is misplaced at any rate as it is what SCIENTISTS (who study the nature and effects of Geoden) rather than what DOCTORS believe (who don't study the nature and effects of Geoden) that is relevant to whether or not Geoden actually does help balance neurochemistry.

The use of 'natural' is strategic (any chemical whether 'naturally occuring' or 'artificially made' has to work on the receptor sites that brains actually have. And really... They are making the chemical in the lab rather than finding it in nature - aren't they? How is the active ingredient in Geoden anymore natural than the active ingredient in morphene or crack??? What the hell does natural mean (in this context?) The use of 'natural' is a buzz word that has warm and fuzzy and 'its okay' emotional connotations without actually meaning anything.

The use of 'balance' suggests that the drug works by restoring an 'unbalanced' state to a 'balanced' one. Medications don't target whatever is wrong by fixing it, however. How come? Because they affect transmission in sites where those transmittors are NOT unbalanced (the effects are too non-specific) and of course the side effects of medication show that it isn't merely 'turning unbalanced into balanced'.

Until the 'false advertising' or 'misleading advertising' laws make it such that advertising isn't a matter of exploiting peoples natural cognitive biases (e.g., natural = good for me) advertising shouldn't be allowed in situations where it is important for people to make INFORMED and RATIONAL decisions (most notably in health care).

I get the scrolling ones sometimes. Most notably on Doc John's blog. Sometimes on the index for the forums. If you accidentally hover your cursor over the ads then they kind of enlarge themselves on the screen (not a popup) so that you get even more 'information' or 'misinformation' or whatever about whatever medication they are trying to market now...

Maybe my problem is that I'm from New Zealand and while I was there drug companies weren't allowed to advertise directly to the consumer. Maybe that has changed now.. I know the drug companies were lobbying for a change in law.. Arguing that advertising results in 'better informed' consumers.

'Better informed' my ***.

If we could sue (or if the government would sue) for false advertising (making claims they know to be false or making claims that are misleading) then sure, I'd be all for the informing of consumers and doctors too.

But the false advertising really is unbelievable... And they aren't accountable... And that shouldn't be allowed IMHO.

Anyway... End rant...

It is just that the first time I ever encountered DTC advertising for drugs... Was on these boards. I was horrified, I'll admit. Couldn't believe it. Felt like the old days where intersections were inundated with advertising billboards... Then the laws changed because you can prevent quite a number of car accidents if you prohibit billboards within 500 meters of traffic signs / lights etc. They distract the driver... Often with disasterous consequences...

[Raynaadi]

Unfortunately these adds fund this site. So while they may be annoying, they keep this site free.

[Christina86]

Hmm... I believe I made an error in my understanding.

Yes, I see advertisements. But they don't seem to affect me ... sorry for the confusion.

There aren't any alternative sources of funding?

I would have thought the association with NIMH etc could have got a little something rolling in...

Or are there profits as well?

Is there a financial disclosure for this site somewhere?

How much does it cost to have the site hosted?

Three hundred bucks a year???

How much revenue is generated from current forms of advertising?

[(JD)]

Ok (((Canders))) I don't mind the regular ads at all. There are even some that change lines but they aren't scrolling or flickering, flashing etc. It's the Abilify? one mainly now that I went back to see

I need pop up allowed for chat, but I have regular pop-ups blocked for all sites. PC is on an allowed list, so I see, like the PM notice come up, but then it drops out.

Anyway, is this scrolling ad new? Maybe that's what's messing the site up for me? Hmmm have to see if there's a setting on my computer to counter the issue. I don't see how though.

Edited to add: Geodon is another scrolling ad. One of theirs just changes line script and that one doesn't bother the screen.

[Mystry]

How about this _Sky...under tools...internet options...advanced...scroll down to multimedia and you will see a place to turn off animations in webpages...after you are finished here just recheck it or you can leave it...I hope that helps...

[(JD)]

Ok thanks, I was wondering where that was. (I keep having to go look.)

BUT I do like the emoticons here. It's just these two (mainly) ads right now. Maybe I'll do a search of where they show up and avoid those forums for awhile?

TC!

[Perna]

I don't much care if the ads move or not but I keep accidentally having my cursor resting too close and inadvertently calling them up and that makes me unhappy. I don't need a "Colon Cleanse" thank you :-)

Alexandra, the site is privately owned and operated by DocJohn (and has been here for five zillion years -- I've been online since 1991 and think he was here before there was an online :-)

http://psychcentral.com/welcome/

(Sorry _Sky, off topic)

Found this too.

How PsychCentral Works

[DocJohn]

While indeed some of the advertisement are more information-filled than others (a requirement of the FDA, I might add, who regulates all pharmaceutical advertising), they do indeed serve the purpose of funding this site and the people it employs.

We're always keeping an eye on ad sizes, and ensuring advertisers meet our guidelines for such advertising. However, if you find a specific advertisement particularly troublesome (for technical or editorial reasons), please feel free to email us:

talkback@psychcentral.com

If we receive enough complaints about a specific ad, we will work to have it altered or removed.

DocJohn

there wouldn't be other ways of funding the site than relying on profiting from big pharma???

Uh... Is there financial disclosure??

I mean... It isn't like the site is employing a few people at a million bucks a year or something like that - is it?

There wouldn't be other ways of funding the site?

[DocClyde]

Alexandra,

Please feel free to PM Doc John to ask these questions, as it may be easier to keep the original subject of the post running, (i.e. the actual advertisements) than the financials and that kind of thing.

Thanks,

Clyde

[(JD)]

I'm wondering if one of the scrolling ads is the reason I keep getting the chat login page brought up front, away from the chat window itself. I'm trying to make note of which ad is there when it happens.

Anyone else having that problem?

So far, I only see Geodon and Abilify ads as problems, but I'll keep working on it till I figure something definitive out.

> it may be easier to keep the original subject of the post running, (i.e. the actual advertisements) than the financials and that kind of thing.

My thought was that the scrolling advertisements (the most attention capturing and hence annoying) were probably the ones that generate the most revenue.

Since revenue was cited as the reason for the advertisments I was wondering about whether the present state of advertising is necessary for the site, or not.

There could be other sources of revenue (e.g., charitable donations). Though charitable donations might only apply if this place is considered a charity rather than a personal business.

Alternatively, it might be possible that the site could run just fine if the advertising was minimised (no scrolling advertisements, for example).

This is very much on topic, I would have thought...

So... How much do you make, Clyde??

;-)

Don't the posters have some kind of right to know whether this place is a business or a charitable trust kind of organisation or quite what is going on?

If it was a charity then I would have thought financial disclosure would have been par for that course.

If it is a personal business then matters might well be different... Is there are board of investors or something like that?

This is just about figuring out whether the advertisements are necessary (at present levels or if at all) or whether there might be alternatives.

To know whether there might be alternatives would require needing to know how much revenue the site generates, however...

[DocClyde]

Alexandra,

I am typing this from my yacht near the Bahamas as I read this, and dreaming of going to the Loire region in France tonight

LOL--I am just a volunteer, myself, but I do not see any big deal about financials. I mean, the way I looked at it is if Doc John wanted to tell you, anyone or me, we could PM him and ask.

If you think there is a different way of paying for the site, go to the investors site here, hopefully you, I and a few others can invest in the site so we dont have to have these ads...I will give some if you want to give some...

[kimmydawn]

If you, or any poster, would like more information on that including ways to work the advertising, please put this *administrative issue* in PM or email to DocJohn.

The forums are a part of Psych Central that are offered *strictly* for support in the self-help setup.

KD

[(JD)]

Yeah back to the topic... I have no problem with the static ads on a .com site. What I'm trying to track down is whether others are having similar issues with the scrolling ads or not, and whether the scrolling ads are really causing the problems I'm experiencing here technically.

I was switched again in the chat format... out of the chat window to the chat login page again. (Not OUT Of chat) and the ad there was not a scrolling one, but the survery pop up had just tried to pop up. Does anyone know the link on that? I asked Mcafee to analyze the site and it found 2 cookies, one being the doubleclik.com one. I know from a game site that doubleclik.com has pop up ads. just trying to figue things out as best I can first.

Used to be I could delineate between allowing pop ups for chat but not for psychcentral forums. That isn't possible now, and if it never was, I don't know how I did that.

[kimmydawn]

Hmm, sky.

I don't have that problem. It sounds like something in settings though. It's like your browser is picking up the "movement" (activity) and pushing that back up to the forefront when that's happening. I've had that happen rarely when I've had more than one thing open. Just like when doing something and someone IM's...the IM comes up first and foremost due to the activity.

I've had that rarely happen outside of IM, but never with the site and while in chat.

That would be a bit frustrating if it happened alot.

KD