Any information about abuse by parents with PTSD?

Therein lies the problem; I have no power or influence because the abusers have it all, and make a point of diligently maintaining that power and influence, to the point where they have effectively made all of humanity their assistants - witting, willing, or not. That's why I say everyone abuses me; you don't have to know you're doing an abuser's will to do it effectively.

Also, I think there's some congruency with what is called rape culture - that's another facet of what I'm experiencing; except that's focusing (mostly) on women. But it's all the same pervasive, abusive environment set up by bullies, for bullies. Whether you're someone targeted for rape or someone targeted for ostracism, the environment is engineered to facilitate the actions of predators to do both. My abuse is not some one-off thing, executed by just my parents or a couple people - it is a constant feature of the environment, an environment that extends everywhere humans are. I can't go anywhere to escape the abuse because while the abuse itself is done by people, the environment facilitates abuse so much non-abusers can't survive, much less become a dominant force. The "caring people" you insist exist may as well not, because the environment prevents them from acting effectively. Their efforts and the results of which are erased just like all of my efforts and their results.

This is why it's so important to punish abusers to the point where they physically cannot act - the only way to successfully change the environment is to prevent abusers from maintaining it how it is or changing it back once we improve it.

And that is something that simply cannot be achieved. So you will fail again.

In addition, it ties you emotionally to them -- you feel they have all the power, you have none.

Punishing people just produces more people who want to punish in revenge... Unless you completely break all those who have damaged you. Can you do that?

The only way out that I see is to become independent of those abusers, so your life, and even how you react to them, is not determined by them. I have not found this easy to do, but I think it is the only way to succeed. When you can decrease reacting to them with fear and anger, you can start to see that, internally, they don't feel powerful at all. Just the opposite. They feel frightened, on the edge of disintegration. That is why they must react violently. It's a way to discharge the distress they feel.

It has nothing to do with "feelings" - it's a practical matter of physical numbers and strength. No single person can defeat a properly-executed dogpile. It doesn't matter what I feel; it matters what these people can do. If you still think emotions are a factor then you're underestimating the problem, and what these people can do.

But that's not punishment - punishment is strictly active discouragement of bad behavior; punishment itself is not bad behavior, therefore actions fighting against punishment cannot itself be "punishment" - those are simply defiant behaviors.


What choice do I have? It's literally kill or be killed - the people against me are trying to kill me, and will do so regardless of what action I take. The punishment I dole out is, for all intents and purposes, self-defense. The only alternative is letting them kill me, because they will perform no other action, no matter how I behave.

You're partially right, in that they feel frightened for their lives, but they simultaneously can't feel "not powerful"; the concept is literally beyond them. If they didn't feel powerful, they would have responded positively to my pleas for peace, but they only saw such negotiations as a weakness. They have one-track minds - I must be destroyed, even if that means destroying themselves in the process; they see my destruction as a moral imperative, a direct command from God.

They will not allow any "independence" from them; they will chase me wherever I run, they will tear down or vault any barriers or boundaries I set up. They behave like a platoon on a suicide mission. They will not allow anything to stop them - not the law, not my efforts, nothing. They are fanatics to their cause, blind with rage and delusional with false ideas.

I have been fighting for my independence since I was a child, but as long as I don't own my own land, grow my own food, cure my own diseases, and put up a physically-impenetrable shield of some kind, I will never be rid of these people. Every dependence on any human being is a route they can and do use to cripple me.

Yes, I believe you. Human beings definitely practice some very unhealthy behaviors where they can only see others who are different as a threat, even to the point where they want to eliminate and shun and reject. Class, race, culture, religion, political beliefs, social status, to name just a few of the areas human beings can look at others who are different as a threat and bad.

If you recognize this, then why are you arguing against me?

Can you relate one or two particular instances of people whom, or situations that you think are particularly bad examples?

I don't have episodic memory, so I don't remember specific events. All I remember are patterns of behavior.

What I'm describing are basic economic truths. I cannot participate in the economy or in society without consent from the people involved; if none of them consent, then I can't participate. Even if some members can overpower any who do consent, I can't participate. Only when those who consent can overpower those who refuse to consent, can I participate. Those who might consent will never have the numbers or economic or political power, even if they did exist - Not even you all deny the existence and will of the strongest objectors; they alone are sufficient to guarantee my ostracism.

I was hoping you could relate some instance where you personally were ostracized. It might make it more concrete for me to visualize.

Again, no episodic memory; they all get blended into the same pattern-matching system. My mind makes a point of de-instancing memories; per-instance solutions are too costly to test and implement one-by-one - if I can't generalize a solution, I can't afford to implement it.

What is with everyone's obsession with instances, anyway? Nothing I know came from instances; everything I have learned I know from generalized principles. I only memorized times tables for the sake of speed; every math function and every other fact of life I know from generic instruction, not specific example. Details are just useless noise and people who obsess over meaningless details are toxic.

If you're asking for "concrete instances", you'll never be in the right mindset to "visualize" or understand anything about me or what I've been through. My life is a life without meaningless, resource-sapping detail.

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Originally Posted by TheUrOther What is with everyone's obsession with instances, anyway? Nothing I know came from instances; everything I have learned I know from generalized principles. I only memorized times tables for the sake of speed; every math function and every other fact of life I know from generic instruction, not specific example. Details are just useless noise and people who obsess over meaningless details are toxic. If you're asking for "concrete instances", you'll never be in the right mindset to "visualize" or understand anything about me or what I've been through. My life is a life without meaningless, resource-sapping detail.

People are asking for examples because you cite some very extreme reasons. "Being killed" people out to kill you...those are extreme. Knowing why you say these things or at least an experience helps us better understand. Its not useless noise.

I find it ironic that people consider "extreme" what they themselves made common.

Someone threatened to throw me off a balcony in front of witnesses because they thought I was a threat to their girlfriend. That's the only outstanding incident I clearly remember, and that's the depth of detail that I remember for it. This was during college.

((TheUrOther)), it's very hard when a person is struggling so badly that they can't even share the "episodic". You are reflecting a person that has NEVER experienced a presence that was concerning and helpful with you. This can most definitely lead to feeling that because no one helped you that everyone is failing you. I don't want to disrespect that imense hurt you are experiencing.

My concern is that you have so much anger that you may harm someone who really doesn't deserve it, either someone else or yourself. When a person chooses to act out their anger and resentment, it doesn't do anything to "help" the problem you loath so much, and more than often it can make it even worse.

What conclusion can one logically derive from a life where zero people demonstrated "a presence that was concerning and helpful with you" other than any future person will also refuse to be "concerning and helpful"? There is NO evidence to suggest that a future person will behave in any way different than people in the past, especially given the near-perfect consistency of behavior and complete and perfect absence of dissenting behavior. If every sample of a group taken has the same characteristics over a large enough number of samples, it is safe to assume all members of that group have the same characteristics. If one pulls one-thousand wooden cubes out of a bag and all of the cubes pulled are red, it makes logical sense to assume all future cubes pulled out of that bag will also be red.

On top of that, the cost of having to deal with a differing person has now exceeded any possible gain I could derive from that person being different. Every new person injures me, no matter their behavior.

Humanity had forty years of opportunity to earn the right to not be harmed, and it refused to take advantage of that opportunity. Humanity chose to deserve punishment of its own free will. By refusing me any excuses for not living up to their impossible standards, humanity has painted itself into a corner it cannot get out of - I am forcing them to deal with the unreasonable standards they enforced upon me, and as such there are no and can be no person who "doesn't deserve it". There is no excuse anyone can make for humanity that they have not denied me, therefore they likewise must be denied such an excuse. You cannot allow humanity to successfully exercise a double-standard or they will exercise double-standards against everyone, and the very concepts of healthy human interaction become a farce. If they are not punished now, they will never treat another human being in a healthy manner - they'll never have an incentive to.

The only way to make sure people treat others in a non-toxic manner is to punish them when they behave toxically. They have no incentive to behave well otherwise.

Buy It ... Read It ...

May you find the information contained therein useful and helpful ...

Sincerely,
Pfrog!

I admit I have not read the whole thread, but both my parents have PTSD. My mother has cPTSD and my biological father has combat-related PTSD (supposedly). They both inflicted abuse on me and were very violent, I suspect as a result of each of their disorders. I have cPTSD myself (diagnosed).

I am interested to see if you found any articles.

My condolences; and I'm sorry I have not found anything.