[nija43]

In general. In a marriage. Is there a difference?

[connect.the.stars]

Love can mean a lot of different things for different people.

My definition: I believe love is first and foremost selfless. We are willing to put ourselves on hold for the other person's sake and give whatever we can to them for their happiness and well-being.

• You can see this trait in a parent who loves their child when they take the day off work to take care of their sick kid.
  
• You can see this trait in a friend who loves their best friend when they drop whatever they are working on to be on the phone for hours at 2 am in the morning when they call crying in despair.
  
• You can see this trait in a spouse who loves their significant other when they plan surprises for anniversaries or even work extra shifts to earn a little more money for a nice romantic/meaningful present.
  
• You can see this trait in a teacher or coach who watches their student develop when they go to support the child at every game or tournament and are willing to invest their time in really understanding the child's journey through life.

It is not always about self-sacrificing. But I find that through love, we are willing to do anything for the ones we love. So in that sense, there is not a difference in the definition of love among the different types of love.

[nija43]

Sorry for the delay in answering. I was really thinking about what you wrote. You provided some very good examples. Love is often not easy. Put the other person's feelings before your own.

I pretty much agree with what you say. Guess I just needed some reassurance. There's a situation in which I'm trying to figure out whether things are being done because of love or because of a subtle controlling being done by the other person.

Thanks again.

[connect.the.stars]

Originally Posted by nija43

There's a situation in which I'm trying to figure out whether things are being done because of love or because of a subtle controlling being done by the other person.

Is it manipulation or a way to push you in the direction they think will be better for you?

It can be very hard to find the line between those two ideas. But basically what I have found is that it is never a good idea to try to "control" another person. No matter how well-meaning the act was intended. It is better if the change comes about from within rather than someone else's pulling of strings.

[HowDoYouFeelMeow?]

Baby don't hurt me...

Sorry.

[nija43]

Absolutely true.

My therapist has been using the word "controlling" and I was never really bothered by that concept. This past week she used the word "manipulating" and I got really angry that someone was actually trying to change me against my will, be it subtle or not.

Yes, I am having my strings pulled. But since I have let the other person do so for such a long time, I find it very difficult to make it stop.

An exert from my digital journal that I keep since I want to contribute to this topic but don't want to retype everything lol. I've thought about this very topic for countless days.

Love is selfish because it is nothing more then an evolutionary illusion designed for our survival and to get us to procreate. If a child didn't love and respect their parents, his or her survival chances would diminish because the parents would be more likely to abuse or abandon the child. When a couple formulates a relationship, the love between the two isn't unconditional; it's similar to a mutual business transaction where both parties benefit. When a couple “loves” each other, they generally desire to have children to pass their genes on.

Without love, procreation wouldn't be possible and we would be extinct as a species.

[connect.the.stars]

Love could be considered selfish if you believe that human survival itself is selfish. I am not sure existence and wanting to be alive is selfish? All species would by default be selfish by mere existence and consuming air/resources.

But then again there are many different theories/opinions for human existence/ species evolution. How that relates to love, well love is a social aspect and yes connections and relationships keep us alive. So if the assumption is equating alive = selfish, then yes love is selfish. But if not, then I'd say it's not always selfish.

[connect.the.stars]

Originally Posted by nija43

Absolutely true.

My therapist has been using the word "controlling" and I was never really bothered by that concept. This past week she used the word "manipulating" and I got really angry that someone was actually trying to change me against my will, be it subtle or not.

Yes, I am having my strings pulled. But since I have let the other person do so for such a long time, I find it very difficult to make it stop.

The first step is awareness. It's never a pleasant thought that what we have been doing wasn't our own idea. But maybe take a step back and ask yourself if you would have wanted to do those suggestions on your own free will. If not, you may need to ask yourself why were you convinced? Was it because it was something you were considering doing but needed an extra person's suggestion for?

[BLUEDOVE]

For God's sake don't allow this! Controlling another
person is making that person a NON-PERSON;
whats worse is if you allow it,then YOU are making self a NON-PERSON.

I tend to agree with with DarknessIsMyFriend. It is an evolutionary trait to push us to breed and keep our descendants, as we are pushed to eat and drink. Between a man a woman "love" pushes us to have sex. Between parents and children "love" pushes us to keep the genes. That is why I think there is a natural love from parents to kids but not the opposite. I think the word love is an invention for something doesn't really exist. Having said that, this idea is not welcomed and almost all people like to think of love as something divine.

[nija43]

Originally Posted by connect.the.stars

But maybe take a step back and ask yourself if you would have wanted to do those suggestions on your own free will.

No need to step back.... I definitely would not do these suggestions. I do not want these changes to be made.

Originally Posted by connect.the.stars

If not, you may need to ask yourself why were you convinced? Was it because it was something you were considering doing but needed an extra person's suggestion for?

I was not considering any of these suggestions. So, why let myself be manipulated and convinced? Guilt. Pure and simple. A major part of my therapy is about the guilt I place upon myself because of episodes in my life. Basically, I allow myself to be "guilted" into doing these things that I don't want to do.

These changes are, in and of themselves, very minor. Almost unnoticeable, in fact. But over time, these little things have made my guilt grow into the proverbial elephant in the room.

The only definitive way I can see of getting myself out of this relationship is to walk out. Leave. Go live my life in my own way and on my own terms. But I would feel guilty if I left. See? Guilt if I stay; guilt if I leave.

[nija43]

I agree. I am, in effect, doing this to myself because I am allowing it to be done. But I have not found the answer to make it stop without weighing myself down with guilt.

On the the plus side, therapy is slowly working for me.

[nija43]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

If a child didn't love and respect their parents, his or her survival chances would diminish because the parents would be more likely to abuse or abandon the child.

Conversely, if the parents didn't love and respect their child, his or her survival chances would diminish because the parents would be more likely to abuse or abandon the child.

[nija43]

The word "sorry" made me think of the wildly popular saying in the 70s (I think it was) -- "Love is never having to say you're sorry."

It became so popular, I wanted to gag every time I heard it. Why? Because I thought it was not true. Love is not having to say you're sorry; love is never having done in the first place what you say you're sorry for.

[connect.the.stars]

I'm sorry you're going through so much nija. I understand what it is like to be guilt tripped constantly. My entire life has been me trying to avoid guilt. Do what so and so says so that they won't be angry or disappointed in me. I'm glad your therapist is helping you work through this.

[OliverRaw]

I believe, that love is something primal. Like, evolution of some instict. We were animals at some point, And I believe, that with evolution of our minds instict, that drove us to find a pair became more intellectual, thus love appeared

The term love is not clearly defined. It is used on daily basis but without clear definition. Is love emotions or decisions and actions? I think it is more convenient to connect love with decisions and actions rather than emotions. That is why I think the divorce rate is so high, because people think their emotions constitute what is known as love, while they are just activation of sexual hormones that fade with time.

In any relationship, it is not healthy to go with the other person just for the fear of feeling guilty to let that person down. This will make that person has control over your life, which will ruin your life because no one wants to be controlled. This is a given. You may allow some minor things to flow against your will if it means something to the other person, but not all the time. Manipulation is the worst in any relationship. Honestly is a key in any relationship. This isn't love. Love is a compromise, that both of you find a common ground on what satisfies you both and will progress your joint interests. Empathy and affirmation are both necessary in any relationship. Having said that, walking away is not the only answer.

[Fuzzybear]

Very interesting thread, thanks ..