[Mylifeisdepressing]

I decided to post this in Depression because I figured most of us would relate to it well, rather than another category... It might be kind of unrelated, but I really needed to get this all out, so it might turn into a rant. Consider yourself warned. Anyway:
Doesn't it bother you when people talk about someone who committed suicide and say that they were weak or cowardly for killing themself? For instance I was talking to my guitar teacher about Kurt Cobain and my guitar teacher said he shouldn't have committed suicide. "He had everything he wanted," he said. That made me so mad. Kurt was BIPOLAR. He DID NOT have "everything he wanted." He may have been a rock star, but how does that translate to having everything he wanted? He was still human, humans have problems and emotions. I hate it when people look down on others for killing themselves. You can believe that it's wrong, but for heaven's sake, don't criticize people for killing themselves. In no way does it mean that they are weak or cowards. It only means that they we'd going through a lot more emotional pain and turmoil than "normal" people, and it became more than they could cope with, so they took the only way out that they saw. I hate how people who have never experienced this kind of pain criticize people who killed themselves because of it. They have no right; they do not understand it. I say that people who commit suicide are brave for going through what they did, because it takes more strength to pull that trigger than most people could ever imagine.
What are your thoughts on the matter?

[Lexi232]

I think that is the same as disrespecting the dead, or saying bad things about someone after they are dead... But people tend not to see it that way, mainly because their words are clouded by hurt when turned into anger when then turned into the who are they going to blame for this death... greiving process...
But it does TAKE A LOT OF GUTS to commit suicide.. it does... it's not the greatest achievement in the world to claim, but it IS something that takes a lot of guts. and if we all had that kind of guts and strength we wouldn't all be here today .... (but those who survive through it, also have extreme strength.. what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger...)
I blame those who could of done something to help.. but instead they only made it worse, or ignored the person when they cried out in desprite pleas for help... not always- well most of the time it's not put in "please help me" terms, but there's an awareness now around the world about this topic, and people should help, not harm.. and one should NEVER tell another one to do it, or tempt them, or taunt them.. because that only tells the person "see? even this person doesn't care about me! even they want me dead!! they just said so!!!" ... <--- has been in that situation and has been the one with those thoughts, so is speaking from personal experience..

[Mylifeisdepressing]

Thanks for your answer, this is one of those things I just have to talk to people about because I feel so strongly about it, and kind of defensive I guess. And I can't exactly bring it up at lunch with my friends, they might get kinda concerned...

[whofitsin]

I completely agree with Lexi...people really should notice the signs, it's not like a new trend no one knows about. People should learn to love each other to the point that they wouldn't consider suicide...I would feel so much better to have someone just do something nice for me out of the blue.

[SoupDragon]

I read something recently "What other people think about us is none of our business" and after thinking about it for a while, I understood what it meant.

People (us included) will all have different perceptions about the same event and therefore make different judgements. Only someone who goes through with a suicide attempt really knows how it is for them and it is on some level totally irrelevant what anyone else thinks about it.

I absolutely agree though that someone can portray a successful happy existence on the outside, while carrying significant pain on the inside. I think it is tragic that anyone can be in so much pain that this is the only way they can see to find some peace and are unable to reach out to someone at that point.

[Raindropvampire]

See I'm on the other side of the coin on this one. I think it is a weak and cowardly choice but a personal choice everyone has to decide for themselves. I have heard the arguement before about how much courage it takes to go through with it. I just don't see it that way. I know how much pain, degradation, sadness, soul numbing despair etc.... every freaking day holds for me but I still get up and keep fighting. God it would be so easy to just kill myself but I'm not a quitter I'm a fighter. I don't know what makes that difference in people that some can hack it and others can't. Hell my sister killed herself. We were raised the same way with the same abuse and both bipolar with PTSD. She gave up and let them win but hopefully she found peace. I may not agree with it but I do hope everyone who makes that choice finds peace and not more pain. To each their own.

[Mylifeisdepressing]

I can understand that. I agree that people should not commit suicide, God no, but I do know that sometimes people just hit rock bottom and whatever is twisting up their minds is telling them that the only way out it just to end it. Everyone makes mistakes, and for someone who kills themselves, it is just their final and fatal mistake. However, I understand what you're saying, that they need to keep going and be strong through it all. And I agree with that. Actually, it's not so much that I think it's ok for people to commit suicide, and I definitely don't support it, I just think its wrong when people who know nothing about the persons experiences criticize them for killing themselves. I really respect your point of view, because you clearly know how hard it can be and understand what those people felt like. I know how hard it can be, I'm sorry you're feeling the way you are. You sound like a very strong person, I hope it gets better for you.

[Mylifeisdepressing]

Btw I'm very sorry about your sister.

[Raindropvampire]

Thank you. It was a long time ago and like I said I believe that she finally found peace. I don't know if I'm strong or just that completely stubborn. I know things will get better. I've learned one thing from having bipolar and that is what goes down sooner or later comes up. The depression never lasts forever it just flippin' feels like it. I hope you have a good night.

[Mylifeisdepressing]

You have a good night too . And I dont think you're just stubborn, because if you have bipolar and you're still alive, just the fact that you've held out through what you've been through means that you are a strong person. In my opinion.

[crazylife]

I think it's wrong to criticize people who have committed suicide to. In the end suicide is a permanent solution to temporary problems but the temporary problems was just to much for them.

Originally Posted by Mylifeisdepressing

.. I hate it when people look down on others for killing themselves. You can believe that it's wrong, but for heaven's sake, don't criticize people for killing themselves. In no way does it mean that they are weak or cowards. It only means that they we'd going through a lot more emotional pain and turmoil than "normal" people, and it became more than they could cope with, so they took the only way out that they saw. I hate how people who have never experienced this kind of pain criticize people who killed themselves because of it. They have no right; they do not understand it...

Originally Posted by Mylifeisdepressing

...I feel so strongly about it, and kind of defensive I guess. And I can't exactly bring it up at lunch ...

Originally Posted by Mylifeisdepressing

I can understand that. I agree that people should not commit suicide, God no, but I do know that sometimes people just hit rock bottom and whatever is twisting up their minds is telling them that the only way out it just to end it. Everyone makes mistakes, and for someone who kills themselves, it is just their final and fatal mistake. However, I understand what you're saying, that they need to keep going and be strong through it all. And I agree with that. Actually, it's not so much that I think it's ok for people to commit suicide, and I definitely don't support it, I just think its wrong when people who know nothing about the persons experiences criticize them for killing themselves...

Agreed. This is something that VERY much gets me worked up. Intellectually, I know that they don't begin to understand what's wrong with these kinds of comments, but still, I can't help it. What exasperates me the very most is the ignorant assumption that someone making such a decision is working from a "normal" state of mind and that's just not at all the case(!) Unless one's mind has lived in a state of that magnitude of distortion, it would be impossible to understand how very very hard the fight can be. Most of us make it. There's nothing to be gained by criticizing those who don't.

Giving up and losing the fight are not the same thing. It's a tragedy all the way around.

[Mylifeisdepressing]

"Giving up and losing the fight are not the same thing. It's a tragedy all the way around."

I agree with that. The problem is that some people treat it more like a crime than a tragedy. Th person didn't wake up and say, "I am feeling evil today, I think I'll kill myself." No, they spent a long time, years usually, going through the pain that their condition caused them, and finally they just lost the power to fight anymore. Thanks for phrasing it that way. It really helped to explain a lot of the things I was trying to say.

[vanessaG]

People, IMO that criticize suicide are ignorant. My mother commited suicide. 2 of my aunts commited suicide. My sister has attempted 3x. Ive attempted several and survived a very serious one if you heard the story you wouldn't believe I was up & walking around today.

Only a person that has been in so much pain that it is TRUELY unbearable to go on another minute feeling that pain deep down inside, that it is so much work to take another breath can really understand. To experience such hopelessness that they're clearly not thinking right but in their state they believe they are-someone who's been there....those are the peole that understand the desperation of suicide.

I don't think it's cowardly/selfish...I don't think it's the 'right' thing to do...and I don't believe a lot of those people really want to die by suicide...they just want the pain to stop already after suffering and to them, this is the ONLY way out.

It's probably hard for me to be objective about this topic as it hits rather close to home, but I personally think that people shouldn't judge another even if they think they've walked in the other's shoes. Yes it might be selfish to kill yourself and leave behind family and friends, but it's also selfish for family and friends to expect you to live in unbearable pain just to prevent their pain.

*Willow*

[simon1974]

Originally Posted by mylifeisdepressing

i decided to post this in depression because i figured most of us would relate to it well, rather than another category... It might be kind of unrelated, but i really needed to get this all out, so it might turn into a rant. Consider yourself warned. Anyway:
Doesn't it bother you when people talk about someone who committed suicide and say that they were weak or cowardly for killing themself? For instance i was talking to my guitar teacher about kurt cobain and my guitar teacher said he shouldn't have committed suicide. "he had everything he wanted," he said. That made me so mad. Kurt was bipolar. He did not have "everything he wanted." he may have been a rock star, but how does that translate to having everything he wanted? He was still human, humans have problems and emotions. I hate it when people look down on others for killing themselves. You can believe that it's wrong, but for heaven's sake, don't criticize people for killing themselves. In no way does it mean that they are weak or cowards. It only means that they we'd going through a lot more emotional pain and turmoil than "normal" people, and it became more than they could cope with, so they took the only way out that they saw. I hate how people who have never experienced this kind of pain criticize people who killed themselves because of it. They have no right; they do not understand it. I say that people who commit suicide are brave for going through what they did, because it takes more strength to pull that trigger than most people could ever imagine.
What are your thoughts on the matter?

totally agree,it takes guts to take one's own life-end of the day,i just don't think they are emotionally intelligent as us"abnormal" ones.

[Mylifeisdepressing]

Thanks, simon1974. That was a really good point, that "abnormal" people are maybe more emotionally intelligent than so called "normal" people. I hadn't thought about that but it's a very good way to look at it. Thank you, I'll remember that.

Originally Posted by Mylifeisdepressing

"Giving up and losing the fight are not the same thing. It's a tragedy all the way around."

I agree with that. The problem is that some people treat it more like a crime than a tragedy. Th person didn't wake up and say, "I am feeling evil today, I think I'll kill myself." No, they spent a long time, years usually, going through the pain that their condition caused them, and finally they just lost the power to fight anymore. Thanks for phrasing it that way. It really helped to explain a lot of the things I was trying to say.

I disagree actually. Not everybody has gone through years of pain before attempting suicide. Some people can kill themselves on impulse, without even having depression. For example, take a guy who's GF dumps him out of the blue. He jumps in front of a train an hour after hearing the bad news. You get some men who kill their kids and then themselves just to get back at the wife. That's not so much about depression as it is about anger and getting revenge.

Suicide bombers don't suffer from depression. Well I assume they don't, maybe soe do. They kill for religious and/or political reasons. It's not true that everybody who commits suicide is depressed. How about someone with a terminal illness who decides to end it?

I don't think committing suicide is cowardly. I think it can be selfish under certain circumstances. If you're a parent with young children and you kill yourself, then that is selfish, there's no getting away from it.

[Mylifeisdepressing]

In response to Lycanthrope's reply, I was talking about people with depression. I guess I should have clarified, but I didn't mean suicide bombers or anything like that. I meant people with Bipolar or depression, or I guess other mental diseases. Not crazy insane terrorists or anything, because I think that's just wrong. And that's more along the lines of, "I'm feeling evil today, I think I'll go kill myself." I think that this is a very evil and selfish way to waste a life.

[BlueChris]

I've been reading the responses to the post from Mylifeisdepressing. Interesting to see the different perspectives disclosed.

I don't know if it's "courage" that causes one to take his or her life. My dad took his life. I know he was in a lot of emotional pain after years of downward spiraling. I chose to look at it as his means of stopping the pain. I didn't understand it at the time but after experiencing bouts of depression myself as an adult I probably understand more now what that feeling of despair is.

My biggest regret is that my then 12-year-old brother found my dad and that has scarred him for life. Decades later he still won't discuss it, and is still trying to "protect" others in the family from that horrible experience. We all ended up scarred from it. Sad, sad thing.

[likewater]

We cannot commit suicide because suicide does great harm and robs everyone of the gifts our presence would have given. There is a reason each one of us is here and the universe is incomplete if we leave prematurely. That's what i believe.

[dragonfly2]

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

I don't think committing suicide is cowardly. I think it can be selfish under certain circumstances. If you're a parent with young children and you kill yourself, then that is selfish, there's no getting away from it.

You may not always know the back story to parental suicides. Some cases may be an (albeit misguided) attempt to make life better for the children, as was the case with me.

I had Postpartum OCD after the birth of my second child and had distressing intrusive thoughts of hurting them. It got to the point where I felt I had to kill myself in order to protect them. The attempt landed me in cardiac intensive care, but I eventually overcame the OCD. But at the time, it seemed like my only option. I had been in treatment and was getting nowhere and was terrified that I might do something to harm them. This was all before I understood what was going on and that women with PP OCD generally are not a threat to their kids because they are actually repulsed by the thoughts and go to great lengths to avoid hurting them.

Another situation where I had planned to end my life was after I became unable to work and we were facing foreclosure and homelessness. I won't go into it all here, but I have bipolar disorder and had a period of extreme illness in the past that tore my family apart for a period of time. Here I was, getting that sick again and facing another possible catastrophy. Then I saw that my life insurance would pay for suicide. The house and all our debts would be paid for with a significant amount of money left for my husband to live on. My family would be spared homelessness and the turmoil of my becoming extremely sick again. A disability decision in my favor saved my life.

Now, as I said, these reasons may be a bit misguided, but they are in no way selfish.

[Imgettingbetter]

I don't think it is possible to EVER judge why someone is so desperate that they end their life.....
I have been in a position when I thought it was a good idea and I got help, but other people may not have the support they need. I spend every day trying not to let the depression win.

[notablackbarbie]

Originally Posted by Mylifeisdepressing

I decided to post this in Depression because I figured most of us would relate to it well, rather than another category... It might be kind of unrelated, but I really needed to get this all out, so it might turn into a rant. Consider yourself warned. Anyway:
Doesn't it bother you when people talk about someone who committed suicide and say that they were weak or cowardly for killing themself? For instance I was talking to my guitar teacher about Kurt Cobain and my guitar teacher said he shouldn't have committed suicide. "He had everything he wanted," he said. That made me so mad. Kurt was BIPOLAR. He DID NOT have "everything he wanted." He may have been a rock star, but how does that translate to having everything he wanted? He was still human, humans have problems and emotions. I hate it when people look down on others for killing themselves. You can believe that it's wrong, but for heaven's sake, don't criticize people for killing themselves. In no way does it mean that they are weak or cowards. It only means that they we'd going through a lot more emotional pain and turmoil than "normal" people, and it became more than they could cope with, so they took the only way out that they saw. I hate how people who have never experienced this kind of pain criticize people who killed themselves because of it. They have no right; they do not understand it. I say that people who commit suicide are brave for going through what they did, because it takes more strength to pull that trigger than most people could ever imagine.
What are your thoughts on the matter?

Yes it bothers me. A LOT.

I UNDERSTAND that ones suicidal intentions are dysfunctional and irrational and unhealthy and distorted...but also still RELATE to the pain and hopelessness and logic that everyone/thing else and life would be better if they were gone. It is just not fair that people could reduce all of that pain to "what a pathetic asshole". At the very least, comments like that just proove the point that the person wasnt worthwhile. At a personal level, this just adds to more anxiety/fear... what do others see; what could they say; and while i am a screwed up repulsive mess now, how worthless and hated would i be afterwards.....

Its sick, i know...but thats the point right? That we are sick too, not just bad? right?? I understand that MANY, many people are just overwhelmed with this idea of suicide. Still, its not fair to dismiss or reject others pain, suffering, or their responses/reactions - such disengagement from others just limits the diversity and potential of humanity (kinda along the same vein as likewater). Plus - on top of everything else - who are *you* to judge, and why that way...?

I still struggle with these desires and its exhausting that this struggle does consider what/how others could think/say/react/judge AS WELL AS the shame, guilt, fear, self-hatred, memories, triggers, worries, what-ifs, shoulds, to-do lists, expectations, comparisons, pain, anger, sadness...

((((to everyone here))))

Originally Posted by dragonfly2

You may not always know the back story to parental suicides. Some cases may be an (albeit misguided) attempt to make life better for the children, as was the case with me.

I had Postpartum OCD after the birth of my second child and had distressing intrusive thoughts of hurting them. It got to the point where I felt I had to kill myself in order to protect them. The attempt landed me in cardiac intensive care, but I eventually overcame the OCD. But at the time, it seemed like my only option. I had been in treatment and was getting nowhere and was terrified that I might do something to harm them. This was all before I understood what was going on and that women with PP OCD generally are not a threat to their kids because they are actually repulsed by the thoughts and go to great lengths to avoid hurting them.

Another situation where I had planned to end my life was after I became unable to work and we were facing foreclosure and homelessness. I won't go into it all here, but I have bipolar disorder and had a period of extreme illness in the past that tore my family apart for a period of time. Here I was, getting that sick again and facing another possible catastrophy. Then I saw that my life insurance would pay for suicide. The house and all our debts would be paid for with a significant amount of money left for my husband to live on. My family would be spared homelessness and the turmoil of my becoming extremely sick again. A disability decision in my favor saved my life.

Now, as I said, these reasons may be a bit misguided, but they are in no way selfish.

Point taken.