Is the "Chemical Imbalance of the Brain" theory open to challenge?

Not even sure I should post this, but this is how I feel.

I would rather think my brain is broken than me (my mind). At this point I can't think of my mind being broken, but I can handle my brain is broken. Physical things can be fixed (my brain), but the mind(the thing that makes me me) cannot be fixed. Yes I do believe therapy can and does help me to deal w/ the everyday, but if my brain wasn't broken, than my mind wouldn't need fixing.

This gets at something that I think a lot about. It seems that a lot of people would rather think that their brains are physiologically disturbed than that they have something wrong with their thinking.

I think that some people with psychic problems are afraid of being blamed for those problems. If we can say the cause is biological, then it makes us less responsible.

I look at it different. I have suffered many years with serious depression. I really don't think there is anything wrong with my brain. (Well, I do understand that being depressed can adversely affect the brain.) I think it is my maladaptive traits and the trauma of some unfortunate experiences and being conditioned to react badly to certain stresses and fears that has caused my depression. That doesn't mean I am saying it is all my own fault. We are no more responsible for the influences that affect us and the things that happen to us than we are for the genes and wiring of our brains and the chemical forces at play in our heads.

I do believe there is something wrong with the way my mind works . . . not that that is easy to change. I'm starting to think that mental damage can be just as permanent as physical damage.

An antidepressant did help me a lot . . . but I still had bad problems when severe stress came into my life. Then pdocs wanted to put me on all these medications. I tried them hopefully. They didn't help. Now I think that pdocs way overestimate how much of the problem resides in the brain itself. I've given up on most of the toxic meds they were so sure would help me . . . but did not.

I believe a lot of the problem causing my depression resides in the way I became conditioned to react to life. Not all of our behavior is totally a product of choice . . . that I do believe.

I think you're exactly right; thanks for this.

No, I am always responsible for my actions. That's not what I am saying. I am 100% responsible for my behavior, even w/ an imbalance. And I'm not saying that we can't learn to control those behaviors. But what I am saying is that the mind is different than the brain. The brain is the cells, neurons, and the chemicals our bodies produce, but the mind is the experiences that we experience. One can be helped w/ meds (w/o meds, I would probably be dead), and one can be controlled through therapy.

Let me put it this way: if your brain (physical part) is producing a certain chemical way more than it should, then other cells will produce other things to level that they shouldn't have. Much like a diabetic's pancreas under produces insulin b/c other cells say that is enough, they can't take in any more sugar, so their bodies stop producing insulin. So, I believe our brains are the same way. We start over producing some things, and under producing others.

I'm bipolar, and my T and pdoc think I have bpd. Meds help me.

I'm no biologist. I'm a computer geek.

Well said. God, I lived with and went to a partial program with schizophrenics and that is the worst thing I have ever seen in my life. That is the worst torture I have ever seen and my heart sinks when I see someone like that. They are broken and I wish someone could help them but they are stuck in an abyss. How could a Higher Power ever let this happen.

I was an inpatient with a 24 yr old female teacher who just started experiencing schizophrenia and I felt for her and her mother was so shattered. I felt so bad for her. Her mother had loss and sadness written all over her face and there was nothing she could do. She was a very bright girl and she was on an emotional rollercoaster which I have never seen before.

Rose, I understand your point. And I think that's the whole part of therapy along w/ meds. Therapy teaches responsibility, while the meds help to balance the brain chemistry. I believe they work hand in hand, and not separate.

W/o the meds, I don't think I would be here today.

That is sad you think this.

Having problems is not a character flaw... It's sad many people with issues have this distinction "either I have broken brain, or I am a bad person".

Depression happens. Often it's result of series of tiny little events that weight us down.

That we can do a lot for ourselves is not to say "you are not doing enough"... it means that there are many ways you can help yourself. People feel awkward these days taking somebody else's ideas and philosophies to apply to their own lifes... as if we should just come up with everything ourselves...

Learning to live is learning just like anything else. Ever learned a language? Did you master it without bumps? Probably not. You probably didn't find the right hairstyle or right colors to wear on the first try either... so life philosophies and ways to live are the same... we all make mistakes and it's okay.

And often we feel sad for reason. Sadness is warning something is wrong with our lives... and we should explore it, rather then numb it with a pill and go on with our unsatisfactory life...

You are not broken. You are just troubled. The most intelligent, prolific and talented people out there were troubled. And would you call Churchill a broken brain?

When you are in love, brain produces too much of some chemicals and it's been claimed by some scientists, that being in love lowers your IQ. Yet nobody calls it "illness". Why other forms of mind intensity are illness?

(yes, love renders some people infunctional too).

Just cause meds help doesn't mean you have imbalance. Redbull, guarana and barrels of coffee helped me to get through university. I don't think I have caffeine deficiency though. Just as few drinks do away with my dance anxiety... psychdrugs are designed as mind altering substances... they SHOULD make you feel better.

I never said that having a broken mind made someone a bad person. You are saying that. What I said was that if MY brain wasn't broken, I wouldn't need help fixing my mind.

Depression happens. Often it's result of series of tiny little events that weight us down.

You are right depression happens. Happens to people who have normal brains.

And often we feel sad for reason. Sadness is warning something is wrong with our lives... and we should explore it, rather then numb it with a pill and go on with our unsatisfactory life...

I disagree. Sadness is not a warning, it is a response to an event. Someone you love dies, you feel sad. How is that a warning? My meds have never numbed the way I feel. I still feel the feelings, but what they do do for me is take the intensity away from them so that I may function w/ the rest of society, and figure out why I feel that way.

Sometimes I can cycle from happy go lucky to wanting to die several times a day. Are you saying that I should explore those feelings? Hell, they nearly kill me.

Feelings are neither right nor wrong, they just are. It's how we deal with them that matters.

You are not broken. You are just troubled. The most intelligent, prolific and talented people out there were troubled. And would you call Churchill a broken brain?

I never said I was broken. My brain, the physical part that sits on my shoulders, doesn't function correctly, but me, my mind, is not. However, it is dependent on the brain, the physical.

Again, remember, the brain is the physical thing, but the mind is what makes me me.

do you have a diagnose of brain damage?

No I haven't. But has a child that has diabetes been diagnosed w/ pancreatic damage? I think not. They were born that way. And I do believe that some people are born w/ brain abnormalities that leave them prone to mental health issues.

well, this is what this thread discusses... if we believe there's brain chemistry/structure fault or not.

It's kinda like arguing if there's a God at this point. The brain scans are not as conclusive as presented (look at who's using pretty brain pictures the most - pharma and proponents of forced treatment).

here's interesting article http://www.psychologytoday.com/colle...new-phrenology

Unfortunately, the science is not clear, that's why the world theory is used. Hopefully, one day, there will be a test to say yes or no, and then treatment can be targeted at that specific thing.

I've just finished reading your recent thread about the "chemical imbalance of the brain" theory.

As one who was prescribed antidepressants, for major depressive disorder, I continued taking them for the better half of fourteen years on the advice of my T.

I can't speak for everyone because each person's circumstances
is different, but for me, taking antidepressants just wasn't working anymore. I stopped taking them a littel more than a year ago and find myself more in touch with my feelings. When I was on meds I felt like I was in a bubble emotionally. I was always tired, I gained weight, my cholesterol levels went up, I lost my hair to the point that I decided to shave my head. I had a decrease in my sex drive. In the very beginning it seemed to work but as time passed I noticed that the meds were not improving my overall mood. I still felt depresssed, frustrated and angry.

We live in a society where there's a "magic" pill for just about every human condition.

So, no, I don't advocate taking meds for depression..... It may work for some fortunate individuals, but for the vast majority of people, including myself, it does no good.

That's my take on it..... Thank u for sharing the article and i look forward to receiving more inforamtion on the topic in the near future.

Thanks again....

i mean, my point is, even if there is a chemical imbalance in some people's brain or body, if you don't know what to do with it, and doctors don't know either, then what's the point to even care about it? just go to therapy, be honest with yourself, don't hide anything. That's the most you can do. i don't exactly get the meaning of this thread. we don't come nearer in solving our problems, we can just make up stupid excuses for it.

I think chemical imbalance can certainly be a factor, the brain makes lots of chemicals that effect all kinds of bodily and mental functions so I don't see why something couldn't go wrong there under the right circumstances. But its a factor then there are other factors like environmental, biological and social I imagine those factors can influence how ones brain develops and what issues might arise.

As for anti-depressants or any other medications, all they can do is treat symptoms..I think they get pushed as a cure all and are over-prescribed probably due to the pharmacutical industry. But they do have their place....and of course everyones brain is different so the same medication won't help everyone with the same mental disorder, especially since a lot of people have different combinations of disorders as well.

I also think its possible different factors can cause the same disorder, like maybe not everyone with depression has it due to the same factors, so not sure they even would be able to isolate specific causes of each mental disorder that could be clearly seen on a brain scan for instance. From what I've learned with my own reading and taking psychology before i dropped out of college mental disorders are very complex.

in my opinion every medication or biological "treatment" may only be good to treat the symptoms. But the symptoms will rise again, if treatment is stopped, because you have to change your coping mechanisms and have to face the real problem to really conquer depression. I can cope with the symptoms now. Because I know they will fade when I get stronger mentally.

Well that is why therapy in combination with the medications is more effective. However not everyone is able to change their coping mechanisms enough to reduce the over-all symptoms so that would determine how long they might need assistance from a drug/medication.

The way I see it my symptoms and pain don't have much to do with strength or lack of it. I used to think that was it, so I hated myself even more because I could never toughen myself up enough to overcome it all...and blamed it on myself. But to each their own, the mental problems I have will probably be a lifelong struggle. So my focus is more on trying not give up on life over it and trying to treat the symptoms as well as look into eating healthier and other things for my well-being so its bearable rather than an end to to the symptoms.

With risk of self harm I don't always have time to do a bunch of soul searching and talk therapy trying to figure it all out or the specific roots to everything when some of it might not even be purely psychological could be those mythical brain chemicals screwing with me, sometimes I need more immediate relief or it gets dangerous.

And if the brain chemistry is off due to some genetic factors, then by taking meds to even the chemistry out you are actually treating the cause, and not just the symptoms.

Problem here is we don't know when (or IF) there's imbalance. And since very few can simply pop a pill and be well without any other intervetion... it seems that if there is such imbalance it's very very very rare.

There's been actually article about test for depression here on Psychcentral that brought up the issue.... what if person feels and act depressed... but their brain would come healthy and chemistry balanced on the test?

I think it would be great if we as society could acknowledge that emotional problems and emotional pain are pretty real too. No need to pretend it's definitelly medical.

Medical model increased stigma of MI. Is it right to push it even if we don!t have proof?

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Yes. There is genetic testing available now for genes that cause some to
lack two enzymes in the stomach that metabolize folic acid (vitamin B9)
into folate, a form of the vitamin that can cross the blood-brain barrier
and improves brain chemistry.

I very much like the idea of treating the causes and not the symptoms,
but as everyone has suggested, at this point in research the best treatment is often the use of at least some small dosage of medication, although many are able to control things with diet, supplements, etc.

For those who can't metabolize folic acid correctly, a food medication called Deplin is a
help---it's a concentrated form of folate that can cross the blood-brain barrier.

This has been a very honest, open, and fair thread, and I've enjoyed it.

Wish you all the best.

So, and I agree, the science has not progressed enough to be able to tell, but if the possibility exists that it is of biological in origin, do the docs withhold medications that can help? To me that is inhumane treatment.

As to your example, there are some mental health issues that are purely psychological, and others that are based in biology. So, yes you would get people that wouldn't test positive for a chemical imbalance, but still show the signs of depression, but medicine can still help them get over the hump.

Personally, I went more than 6 years taking a mood stabilizer and ad w/o a problem, and no other intervention. I was just fine, until I decided to stop taking them, and started the swings again. I've been fight this for 30 of my 40 years, and I would be a fool not use every thing I can get my hands on to fight it.

I'll ask you the same question, is it right to withhold it if we don't have proof?

Are doctors really WITHOLDING meds? Really? To my knowledge, many of these drugs are fully legal and widely prescribed. Usually if you go see a shrink, you end up with some med on your hand. If not you can see other shrink.

There's actually opposite problem. Not enough of informed consent. Not enough warning about the risks (side effects, withdrawal). Not enough of info on alternative treatments. Not many shrinks will want assist their clients with coming OFF their drugs.

Btw, I like drugs. I would legalize em all. Prozac or weed... pick and chose, when you are informed about pros and cons. Just be aware you are taking mind altering subtance. I am not fan of "vitamins for brain" and simmilar phrases.

I think you're running away from your real problems

In my view, the ultimate answer is being pro-active in our care, whether it takes the
route of current pharmaceutical trends in research of medications that relieve symptoms
or whether we go with an orthomolecular approach with a combination of holistic
and medications in treatment.

What's important to know is that we are still treating symptoms until we learn (maybe through genetic testing) what the real causes are. If we are students of ourselves, we learn pretty
rapidly what works to help and what to avoid that we have experienced with foods and
medications.

If a doctor tells you that all you need to do is to take an aspirin, I'd be inclined to take it,
frankly, even if it did mean that we had to be very careful about the kidneys in using
aspirin. We so often work around the need to take medications, and I wholeheartedly
agree with that because of knowing how side effects cause such problems for many.

I think stress and wrong foods play a much stronger role than is generally thought in
mental conditions. Stress is a big one.