Is the "Chemical Imbalance of the Brain" theory open to challenge?

I sincerely believe that the brain alone is not the cause of mental illnesses. I believe the cause is much more illusive and may even be in the DNA. The drugs that are available currently target the brain chemistry and over all they do not lead to a healthy life much less stability. The side effects can be horrible and deadly.

OK so the brain chemicals are different when you have an mental illness but did it start with the brain?? We do not know the trigger that starts this action, for all we know it could be an action on the part of the endocrine system that starts this process. Which came first? The endocrine is just getting understood now. Myelin sheaths are getting looked at now too and there is so much unknown that we can not rule it out. Along w/ these there is so much else we do not know, to say that brain chemistry is the cause is simplest and dangerous. Heres a couple of articles that might help to explain why I feel this way it is not just my experience w/ the psych world or drugs there is an entire movement of scientist that say there has to be a better answer.

http://medicalwhistleblowernetwork.j...s-side-effects-

http://www.whale.to/drugs/Jackson.pdf

Thanks for this link.

I think these kinds of assumptions are more damaging than anything when directed at someone for having their symptoms treated. I would disagree that using medication to treat symptoms is running away from problems. Are people just supposed to suffer and tell themselves, if they do anything to alleviate their symptoms they're running away from their problems?

I just don't get this attitude, but I certainly see it a lot.

I heard it a lot in AA. But I've never had a problem taking meds if they help.

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I believe the "lack of serotonin" theory on OCD because it sort of worked for me. But on the other hand, i still have major depression. I can't just take another ssri. this really sucks.

I just think that a lot of the discussion going on in these forums are acutally to "alleviate" the symptoms.

I don't really see the deep talking, and the deep support that really helps. We are making threads about chemical imbalance, to try and explain our depression. I think it's absolutely going in the wrong direction, and that's someone saying these assumptions who is actually coming out of the hole, and made a LOT of progress. So I let myself be honest and cruel because I have the experience and fundaments for it.

If it really was a depression forum to help solve the problems, we would actually be talking about deep psychological stuff with each other. But I don't see that here anywhere, just all the talk about the pain and the meds. I been there too. And I know that mentality only lead me to become even more depressed.

I think most of the people in these boards are just too scared to admit they have issues, and try to solve them.
And you guys blame EVERYTHING else BUT yourselves.
I'm not saying you guys should blame yourselves, because it's only normal that we react with depression and anxiety to certain traumas and events. But I really believe that those who really want to defeat depression, you have to change this mentality of always saying just "hugs" and "supportive things" to each other. On the surface you may think it helps, but it really just helps to keep eachother in this hopeless situation.

Yes I do think Jeffro needs to dig deeper in his self, and stop worrying about biology and medication. And I will always keep this as my opinion, because I know that this is the mentality that actually helps defeating depression.

Not the hugs and the meds.

Perhaps if you made so much progress you wouldn't feel the need to be cruel as that does not solve anything. Like I said I think there are various factors and one includes people implying its 'wrong' to get help for mental illness symptoms and that only treatments that treat 'causes' when its actually a combination of various factors that contribute to mental illnesses and disorders...its already hard enough without getting people on your back about which treatment options you choose.

I don't see why people have to be so pushy about their opinions, I don't go telling people the ought to be on meds if they are uncomfortable with it...or anything like that. I've had bad experiances with them, so I can see why people are hesitant to want to go that route and why people encourage other potentially healthier treatment options but it should be an individual choice with no stigma either way.

Let's not forget that honesty without compassion is brutality.

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You have the sound of the newly initiated. Whether it is addiction, religion or psychology a positive change or break though in ones life often brings a fanatical belief that this one way will work for everyone. The thing is there are many ways to transform and most people need more than one way and at different points along their life time. People need to do what works for them.

I'm glad that what you are doing has been working for you however none of us knows anyone else here enough to make any kind of judgment on another person. With time and experience will come tolerance.

Newlifeyeah,

I am glad that you are feeling better and are making improvements. Yay for you, good going. Some of what you are saying is true, it is always very "helpful" to admit problems and talk things out and exchange ideas or advice.

There are a lot of things that can cause the symptoms of "depression". I had debilitating depression that was caused by an implant of a drug to stop my menstrual cycles because I had laser surgery for endometriosis. That drug depleted my system of estrogen which lead to debilitating depression. I had to be given estrogen and I had Zoloft too and it took about two months until I felt better.

In light of that, all the therapy or deep discussion in the world would have not helped me, so I am careful to make sure I "respect" those that are challenged with depression, it may take something "more" than a deep discussion to "feel better".

Aside from that, I will say that often depression can take place from "fear" and "anxiety" or "stress" or out of a situational challenge there is no "quick" remedy for. It can also be some negative messages sent to us as children that added up to struggling with low self esteem and lack of motivation. It can also come from "social pressures" too. There is no shortage of "critical people" and they look for someone who might be shy or sensitive so they can find a way to "put them down" so they can gain some sense of "empowerment".

One of the things that not enough time is spent on in "education" is discussing what kind to behavior patterns are "unhealthy" to self and others. And often not even parents have a clue on what it takes to "raise a healthy minded child". The busiest forums are this forum, depression, and the "relationship" forum.

One thing there is a shortage of is "healthy role models" for many of our youth today.Ummm, is Justin Beiber (not sure of sp) a healthy role model? He is around 19, has more money than probably all the members of PC and then some put together, and he is heading for a big "crash" of some kind.

Our youth of today often feel they have to know who they are and what they are going to be in life and god forbid they don't know that by 19 and even early 20's. They also don't realize that when someone works as a paperboy, then maybe a babysitter, or bust boy/girl, or a waitress, or even at McDonalds, they are "gaining something", experience that is going to "help" in their development.

I remember working as a cashier at a big department store when I was around 17ish. I learned a lot from that job. I learned the cash register, and to count out and balance and I learned a lot about "what people like to buy" too. I liked to move around to the different departments too, makeup counter, records, housewares, coats, men's department. Everywhere I went in that store, "I learned things". I didn't think of it as "just a cashier", because I was always "learning".

Our youth of today, the generation of "late 20's and even early 30's now, all think that if they don't make big bucks and have "important jobs" that they don't have "value". And with all the things we can see now that go on in the world, these upcoming generations tend to get "overwhelmed" too.

In my country of USA, the theme is "change". My country is in "huge debt" now because we need to "change" somehow. I think that the rise in "depression and even suicide" is definitely "changing for the worse". Change really comes from something small somewhere that slowly catches on and grows. Two young kids in a garage fiddling with computers. Look at what you are typing on or holding in your hand, did that change start "big"? Did our country go into huge debt to "just make what you are typing on just "happen"?

I think the biggest part of depression is "fear". And we "do" need to have some "deep discussions" about that. We need to also learn how to "admit" the "fear too". People are even afraid to admit they are "afraid".

One of the things I have noticed in my life time is "people are afraid of the truth too". That's the other biggest challenge that tends to lead to "depression" the inability to "trust". It is not only "trusting others" but also "trusting self too".

Believe, there is another one that leads to depression. If we don't have "trust" how are we going to "believe"? People do not know how to "believe in themselves anymore". And it doesn't matter how much money one has, you can't "buy" it. You can "teach it" and you can "learn it". But, it starts "small" and many people do not understand that now. Believing comes from honesty, and that has been on a big "decline".

What I hear a lot from people is "I don't want to be honest about what is bothering me because they might put me away and give me drugs or think I am crazy or something".

A big part of "depression" is struggling to "think". Who can "think" when they are "afraid", don't believe, and can't trust, and struggle with "being honest and knowing others are honest".

Oh, I could go on, but you did ask for some "discussion" so I gave it a shot.
I can be very "long winded".

OE

Ah, that was a serious issue I had when I first started having my depression issues which came into play after the anxiety of loosing my career & the local huge earthquake that we had in LA that January which destroyed my drive to work. Started off on medical leave for my anxiety which was completely OUT OF CONTROL & they as time went it evolved into depression & suicide attempts & anorexia.

My Pdoc tried every AD available but I had horrible side effects to all of them & ended up having 24/7 migraines when it was all said & done.....I asked my pdoc what the AD's would do.....he said fix the chemical imbalance in my brain......but my argument was that the AD's didn't change the situation that was making me depressed & without changing the situation, my depression wasn't going to go away.....& the fact that I had bad reactions to every AD proved my theory.

I could understand about how therapy could help...but AD's did absolutely NOTHING & even the anti-anxiety medications didn't help because the situation that was causing me the anxiety wasn't under control either & I was trapped in a bad marriage on top of it (something I didn't realize how much it was effecting me at the time).

You through the picture of your whole surroundings into the mix without fixing those problems.....no amount of band-aids in the form of medication is going to help IMO.

Almost 20 years later.......I finally ended up getting through the suicide phase alive.....but I never felt the compete peace that I needed to feel until I moved 2100 miles away from my H & left him....best therapeutic thing I did for my life. I went through a trauma 2 year before I left my H with the home care person when my mother was dying of cancer....& was on high dose of seroquel to sleep & keep the nightmares away.....now I don't need anything more than the natural sleep aids most of the time.......

I truly can see where it's my environment that truly controls how I feel.....but I did understand that sometimes those environmental stressors can change the chemical balance in the brain also.....causing one to feel even worse about the situation than is really appropriate....but looking back....I don't think what I was feeling was really an overreaction to the situation I found myself trapped in.....& would probably have similar feelings if the same thing hit me now given the same circumstances I was in at that time.

I believe however that there are both types of depression....that depression which is usually inherited & is a brain chemical issue....but there is also situational depression which I don't believe is.

I want thank everyone who has replied. I knew I kicked over a hornets nest, but I was being honest. I do like the honesty that I have received, although I have now way of knowing for a fact, but I trust my gut.

Yes I still need to learn a lot about me, but after 30 years of therapy, I know more about me than even my own mother. I know what my triggers are; I know what my issues and problems are. They are all related in some kind of way. Do I still need to work on them? Yes I do, never said I didn't, and I still am. I work on them everyday that I'm blessed to be on this earth.

I've held people children in my arms and watched them die. I've been stabbed, and killed people trying to save my friends. I've seen children being beaten for asking a tourist for some food. I've seen way to much in my 40 years. I've been told I'm a no good SOB. That I wouldn't amount to anything. I've been homeless twice thousands of miles from home. I tried to cure my problems w/ alcohol, to wash away everything, but at 22 I realized that didn't work. I spent 4 years in prison. I came back from that.

It's not situations or challenges or stressors in my life. It's how I react to them. After years and years in therapy, w/ no sign of improvement, I had one doc try AD's and a mood stabilizer. Did it take away the feelings? In my case no it didn't. I still felt the same. However, the difference was that it allowed me to really analyse why I was feeling the way I was, and to deal with the feelings. I can't change people, places or things. They will be what they are, but I can change the reaction to them that I have. And that's where the meds come in. They slow my thinking enough to allow me to react in an appropriate manner.

I've heard from a lot of people in AA, who think that they have an MD, say that if you are taking AD's or any kind of meds, that you are not sober. I've also have seen a lot of people die because of that. I've seen friends get so depressed off there meds that they kill themselves, or go out and start self medicating w/ alcohol/drugs, that they never come back.

Are meds for everyone? No I don't think so. Do certain people have a physical issue w/ their brains? Yes I think so. And my reasoning is this. The mind and the brain are 2 completely different things. The brain is the physical, the mind is who we are. The mind cannot exist w/o the brain, but it's not the other way around. Is there a test for it? Sadly, there is not. I wish there was. Maybe then my doc's and I can come up w/ a solution. Oh by the way, for those of you think I need to look deeper, I see 2 therapist and a pdoc every week. We are exploring every thing that has ever happened to me.

My background is in computers, but I have a strong base in science. And that allows me to analyse information w/ an unbiased eye.

I know that there will be people, and I won't call any names, that will say I still need to dig deeper, but their problems w/ what I say is more about them than me.

I haven't written this in haste. I thought this over, and talked w/ a very good friend about it. I wanted to make sure that the part of me I don't like didn't take over and do the talking. I want to remain rational.

I hope everyone does has had a good night, and that maybe, somebody can take something away from this.

Iso you have intense trauma issues and being depressed is pretty much the only humane reaction. Do you believe if you brain worked right, you'd be able to shrug this off?

(why do many traumatized people insist it's all about brain chemicals or their brains not working right?)

I still don't see the point of your brain/mind... chemistry... I don't get what you are trying to say. And I certainly don't see it as proof of rightness of chemical imbalance theory.

As I said... meds/drugs are mind altering subtances. Hence yeah... they will make you feel different. I feed on natural mind altering dope myself...

I am glad you are looking for the deeper solutions... but I still think that all the obsessing about brain chemistry is not helpful. If something helps you, than it helps... no need to justify it with unproven theories. You are very lucky drugs work for you.

Jeffro, don't take this as attack on you. I just feel the "something wrong with my brain" thing is self-demeaning in too many cases. You been through a lot... so hard to except to bounce back, same as before. For traumatized ones... the challenge is to learn to live with the past and possibly accept it may linger there to a degree. Blaming it on brain seems to me as form of self-hatered...

You're absolutely right, I was being too pushy, and I did try to force my opinion on others.
Which is obviously not right. I just feel, I made so much progress, and seeing some posts here, remind me of some of the "mistakes" I made in the past months. But of course I know now, that these "mistakes" had to be made, for me to discover which is my road to recovery. And that might only be true for me.

But since this is a depression forum, I thought I share my thought about what seems to be working for me, and I'm on the way of defeating depression.

I know that I can't force my opinion on others, and I don't want to. I just felt a bit angry, because I thought, that lots of people are coming here for support, and they don't get it if we talk about chemical imbalance, and not real life problems.

This thread has gotten ten times more views, than any other thread, where people are actually talking about their real life problems. And this shows the desperation, and the "blaming of outside circumstances" that are always huge parts in people dealing with depression.

I just felt it's not going in the right direction, and I'm glad that I've gotten some long, detailed and deep responses. Now I will never ever going to even think about "insulting" Jeffro, or anybody else.
But now Jeffro's questions and posts make much more sense to me, now that he's given some backround on his condition.
I know that these are deep, personal stories, and traumas, and one might not want to share it, but here, we are anonym, and we can go "naked" in front of each other. And that's what I wanted to point out, that in my opinon helps a lot in curing depression, and not just to ease the symptoms.

I'm sorry for being cruel and pushy, I know that's not the right form of support either.

you're absolutely right. however it has nothing to do with religion.
it's basically about finding myself, and knowing who I really am.
(I don't know yet, but I'm on the road
thank you, and sorry if I went out of line.

I havent read this whole thread and I hope people willkeep in mind that my mom is dying while I write this and its affecting my thoughts a lot. I know we are all different and so what works for one, doesnt work for all. I agree with a lot of what newlife has said in his other posts and Ive often felt similarly that sometimes we only support each other in staying down with echoing each other in how badly we feel. This isnt a judgment because I know having others who can relate really helps us. I just dont want newlife to feel that hes wrong and I dont want anyone else to feel that either. Feeling wrong about feeling bad never helps anyone.

don't worry. Seeing "younger and dumber version of myself" is trigger to many.

And I do sorta agree sometimes this forum is too much of "call you pdoc" instead of actual advice on how to deal with life's troubles. And then there's so much of "I am ill, I can't" and too little "I shall overcome". Learned helplessness maybe?

Feeling 'wrong'about feeling 'good' is even worse than feeling wrong about feeling bad. How are we supposed to get on our feet when people discourage our success?

that's often ingrained in the person, sadly. "don't deserve happiness" or feeling there's limited amount of happiness in the world... so if others are happy, you can't be. Or feeling invalidated by other's success... feeling offended by it, instead of taking it "as I can do it too".

Thanks venus, Im just feeling really raw right now and Im saying things I wouldnt normally say and I hope I didnt offend anyone. I wish we all could feel better.

Imho, there are many involved in this controversy, I believe, w varying agendas, and and not all with their main concerns being mental health improvement. I have a feeling, and some of this may be good for the patients, or should I say medical consumers, that this argument will be around a good while now. I am actually old enuff to remember many more treatments other than pharmacology, and insurance not playing a major role here. So, now we may be having another shift for a while. We do live in interesting times!

ty for a good little laff here!

ty for a good little laff here!

Haha! Glad I could help Thanks for your previous reply too, we do live in interesting times indeed.

I think there may be a time and a place to be blunt, but most folks don't benefit from an extra trigger and don't visit pc for that. just my tw cent...but there certainly at times in dealing w reality and moving forward w that, just wise to be prudent here, I think