Finding Meaning

So I have been reading this book called "Man's Search for Meaning" by Victor Frankyl. He was a psychiatrist and went to a concentration camp in nazi Germany. He is one of the few who survived. So many were killed, committed suicide, or simply lost the will to live and died.

He came up with a form of therapy called logotherapy. The main point of it is that we have to find meaning in our life. For everyone this is different. I was having a hard time reading it. For awhile now I have not been able to find any meaning. I feel like I am just existing.

Then I got to a section about suffering. About finding meaning in our suffering. In our culture suffering is not honored. We are expected to be happy all the time and if we are not we are expected to snap out of it or do something to fix it. His point is that suffering is a part of life. That if there is a way out of suffering and back to happiness then we should by all means do whatever we can. But there are cases where suffering cannot be fixed. Like a terminal cancer patient or a person with treatment resistant depression that they are in for years at a time.

His point is that we can find meaning in our suffering. That we can suffer bravely and with dignity. That in the face of no hope we can find meaning in our suffering. Our culture does not really embrace this way of thinking.

I don't know how to do this but this section of the book really resonated with me. I give him alot of credibility because of his life experience. In the concentration camps with everything saying he was going to end up dead he managed to find meaning and hold on to hope somehow.

I have no stunning wisdom to add. But perhaps part of our purpose is to be brazen about our depression. Not to hide it. But to be willing to openly tell others that we have an illness and we are WORKING, working hard on defeating it.

Thereby lessening the burden of future generations.

I am not saying that is our purpose... I do not know. But, if there was not the stigma that does exist.... wouldn't our battle be easier? Then perhaps I can be a small part of changing that stigma.

I feel the same way and am very open about my depression for the reason of battling that stigma. Maybe there is meaning in that. Thanks for pointing that out.

bump.

No one saw my philosophic post.
I thought it tied into Skeezys recent post.

EDIT- Except for UM

I'd never thought of needing to find meaning until recently, when I quite suddenly realised that it didn't matter that I don't have children, as I can't / won't be responsible for passing the gene (if it is genetic) or the risk (through poor nurture) to future generations. The fact that there are other depressed people in the world causes me more distress than my own illness, the possibility that I could inflict depression on someone else just by breeding is horrific. That's the meaning I have found.

I had a girl friend once who suffered from severe depression as I do. She got her tubes tied for all the very reasons you talk about. She was very secure in her decision. Whether she found meaning in that I do not know. I imagine she did. I should ask her.

I'm still young, so I have much to learn about and I don't want to say something stupid that you don't agree.
But I think there is no real meaning in life, in every people life. Sure there are great people to whom the humanity owns so much.
But first, which one of us will be remembered in the future, very few people from the ones who ever lived got in the history, much, much more were forgotten.
Second, eventualy the human race will disapear for ever, we are just like the other animals and extintion is a thing that surely is going to happen (I don't believe that someone is gonna find a nice planet for us to live when our sun won't shine anymore.

What I do believe that in order to be alive we have to find a meaning in our lives. But the real reason why we are here is because of evolution and because we have instinct to make us live (search for food, procriate...). I don't know if we are or aren't better than the other animals, but we can't forget we are animals.

For me, yes, we have to find meaning in your lives, but is that meaning really meaningfull?
And if people just will be on earth to suffer (like terminal patients) they have to find a meaning just because there is the need for everyone to have a meaning? And if even so they don't find it, are we going to make them finding it?

In my opinion what make us move, beside than instinct, is our capacity of imagine the future, wanting things, waiting for them to happening (or avoiding them to happen).

My country doesn't allows eutanasia, and well, **** of the meaning, there are meanings that aren't suposed to be found. If you find a meaning to live, that's great...but if you can't see a meaning, I just think people shouldn't be forced to find it. Are we so that important?

Sorry if I make someone think twice about what they are doing here. My sentimental side says to me that we should help people in order to make them feel the best is possible and treatment with dignity, not going around sending human to the garbage. But my racional side ask me many time if there's any meaning in having a meaning.

Please be free to disagree with me. And I really don't want anybody to feel bad about themselves because of what I said.

I can see where he's coming from.

Lately, all I can think about is meaning. Having a purpose. I don't know what triggered it, but something inside me was definitely triggered within the past few years. I woke up and realized I do the same thing, every day... and as a wise man once said... doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome that's madness. So, it got me thinking about meaning, purpose. I honestly believe that humans need to have some kind of purpose. For some, that's raising children. For others, that may be raising horses, or dogs, or fish. Still, for many, it might be a career. Teaching, healing, what have you. And day in and day out, I sit wondering what my purpose is.

I guess that might be why I got so lost this year. I was trying desperately to find my purpose and have been unsuccessful. I wonder if, maybe, this suffering is - in a way - my meaning. I'm a writer. I have a way with words. My mother has told me that I always have, since I was a child. I can never adequately express myself in spoken words... but give me a pen and a paper and I can tell you everything that's wrong with me. I often wish that therapy could work like that. Unfortunately, only my first psychiatrist accepted that kind of therapy. Every other one has desired me to speak. Anyway, the point is, lately, I've been wondering if maybe my purpose is to write it down. Document it. Every thought, every feeling. That way I can let someone know they're not alone. Thinking this makes me think that in the end, there may be a point to my suffering.

I really do believe that having some kind of sense of meaning/purpose is important.

I wish I could be open about my mental illness, and maybe one day I will be. For now, though, I mostly sit in my room and contemplate these things until they drive me mad.

That book sounds amazing. Thanks for giving me something new to add to my reading list. I love encountering new ideas and the feeling I get when an established paradigm of mine gets shifted.

Thank you again

Mulan. I think the author is more talking about very practical and mundane things. Like maybe there is meaning in just posting in this forum. After all the whole world can read our posts and maybe it is helping people we don't even know about. Or finding meaning in your studies and wanting to be whatever you are studying for.

Whether there is any meaning in meaning. Or that maybe life is just meaningless is more a philosophical and existenial question. Maybe we are just born, metabolize, act on instinct, procreate and die. The only meaning is passing our genes on only to become extinct at some point. Whats the point?

There has been a huge debate raging on this very issue for some time. People like Richard Dawkins, a very prominent evolutionary biologist believes that we are just biological machines acting solely on instinct and external stimuli. That free will is an illusion. That if we just knew enough about biology and physics your every thought, feeling, and action could be predicted.

I believe in evolutionary biology. I am not a "creationist". But I believe very strongly that the mind transcends the body. That there is such a thing as spirit and life after death. I believe that there is so much more to this universe than our limited senses are able to percieve. Look at quantum physics. They are coming up with some very bizarre theories that totally defy logic and go against everything we have always believed in science.

I agree. We are animals. But primates suffer from depression and form very social bonds. Even dogs do. So who is to say there isn't a doggy heaven. There is so much we do not know about this universe and our perception is so limited. I believe there is much more to the story.

Maybe there is, I think is unfair the existence (has some believe) of life after dead for humans and not for other animals.
I don't want to discuss this subject because it's a sensitive one. And there is almost a different believe in every different people, even they suposely believe on the same thing. I am not against the idea of life after dead, but there is so much question without answers on the both sides that I prefer to be neutral. Like if it exist how is your soul going to be after that...like for the ones who always were mentaly sick. What is soul anyway? If it is our way of thinking and our prespectives are we going to suffer because our mental ilness even after dead? Just existencional questions. (but forgetting all this and don't discussing this anymore)

I understood that I was getting behond of what the autor wanted to say, but how this is a thing that frequently crosses my mind even when people who not suffer from any ilness (if this condition exists). I expressed it. I will just get for me the thought that we have a meaning even when we don't find it (mundane one).

They are very difficult questions. Finding meaning in the mundane sense and in the existential sense is difficult for anyone. But for us it is even harder.

I do not know if this is relevant, but I found this yesterday, and some tools there may have some potential Action for Happiness

Looks to be very relevant. I will have to check it out further.

So far I have come up with helping others who also suffer. Very powerful.
See this post by 20broken17
http://forums.psychcentral.com/depre...ping-hand.html

All of us by posting on these forums for the whole world to see I am sure is helping others.

Being very open about my disease to others in order to reduce the stigma and increase understanding. I have been doing this for along time but never really acknowledged it had meaning for me.

I used to very active in AA and a huge part of that philosophy is helping the new guy or gal who comes in the door. I feel I need to get back to that. Just can't get myself to go though.

Then there is my 20 year old daughter who I am very close with and she needs me. I am having some issues about my financial state and my inability to help her in that regard. Brings up alot of shame.

Facing and fighting this disease takes alot of courage and resilience in the face of no hope. As Victor Frankyl suggests I guess I can find meaning it that.

I guess being there for my family which I am very close to but I feel like more of a burden then anything. Gonna have to work on that one.

When I am not depressed I have always been very into nature and wild life photography. I have found much meaning and enjoyment in this. I love nothing more than sitting in a blind all by myself being with nature. I wish I could show you guys all my photos. Problem is when depressed I have no desire to even look at my camera.

I could list a lot for when I am not depressed and feeling really good. The challenge is finding them when in a deep depression.

Can you make this it's own post? I think many more of us would see it.
And thank you for sharing, Clara.

There seems to be no POSITIVE meaning in my life, as I have struggled but can never find anything to do that makes a difference. People say to do whatever little thing you can, but I see that people get wrapped up in meaningless little missions that are too little too late. I'm talking about in the area that I care about. It's nothing to do with people, but rather conservation of parts of the world for their own sake, not for what people can get out of it directly to benefit themselves. I guess it's a small minority view of meaning. Even the best and most creative and clever conservation efforts seem to me such a drop in the bucket against the mainstream machine that is human "civilization."

I'm willing to help people often, but that's just because I'm a moderately decent person. I'm not just a taker. And helping people is not my purpose in life, because overall as a species we are takers. I don't like it, and I don't encourage it. I don't mean to be judgmental, but I can't help feeling that most of human endeavors are utterly pointless at best and many are destructive to everything I value. In short, there is no real place in the world for me. Sure, I am not paying rent on a trash heap like the Cambodian family in this story Where Children Sleep photographs from around the world | Mail Online but there is no real meaningful place for me, even though I have it relatively easy in a material sense.

"Man's Search for Meaning" is a life-changing book. There is a saying about Buddhism...that the Buddha's purpose was "to learn to come joyfully into suffering".

So there is no hope for humanity? Are we not able to change and adapt? To see the error of our ways and change for the better. I have to disagree. I am optimistic about human evolution.

Have you heard the saying that when a butterfly flaps its wings it creates change in the whole world?

Maybe that one small thing you do causes enormous change that is just beyond your perception. You can make a difference.

My optimistic view doesn't help me to much with finding personal purpose and meaning I must say though.

Yeah I thought a lot about Buddhist philosophy when reading the parts about suffering. Especially the parts about when nothing can be done about suffering. So many of us suffer from deep deep depressions where nothing can be done about it. Nothing works. You are just left with your suffering. Even then you can find meaning a purpose in your suffering. You can come into it joyously. That part of the book helped me the most.

When I'm feeling optimistic about human evolution, it means I'm looking forward happily to our extinction. That's about as optimistic as it gets. After all, we're an arrogant and benighted species that just can't get enough. We're here not 200,000 years and we're doing our best to wreck the entire planet. Could humans change? Anything's possible, but I see no sign of it.

Yes, it's interesting about the butterfly effect, and yet we tend to be blind to the fact that the things we do are seriously changing things everywhere.

I am a writer too. I found journal therapy to be particularly useful to me. You can google journaling therapy and find a few resources. What I did was to thickly describe my trauma, which included my earliest memory at a child of 5, waking up in the hospital after a coma. My mother was there, briefly, before she had to return to work. As soon as she left the nurses started pricking my fingers to take my sugar levels (the cause of the coma).

After writing in acute detail everything I could remember I also wrote about how it made me feel in detail.

Then I wrote about how those memories and feelings still haunt my behavior and feeling today: sense of abandonment, lack of control...it all led to attachment disorders with my mother and other woman with whom I became intimate with as an adult.

Strangely, after writing my way into and then out of those feelings, I no longer felt like I needed to smoke cigarettes. For some reason, smoking alleviated my anxiety about being abandoned and when I came to grips with the underlying issues my desire to smoke was greatly diminished.

Hope this helps a fellow writer.