[Viuam]

I'm at the airport waiting for my flight. I have time to spare, start walking around, and see a chapel. Now, I'm completely agnostic, the only reason I don't say that I'm an atheist is because there is no evidence to deny the existence of a god, in whatever form. I would say I'm a 6.8 on the Dawkins scale, for anyone who has read the book. Yet, I actually walked into the chapel and prayed. Nothing traditional, because I was raised in a pretty religion free household so I don't know any formal prayers. But for some reason I just sat there and had a conversation, more like a negotiation, with the "entity" that may or may not exist. I basically told It that if the remote possibility of Its existence is possible, then damn dude, you screwed me over. Then, with complete knowledge of the remoteness of that possiblity, I requested that It at least not throw evil people in my way for a bit (especially men) and if It had any special powers at all, to please give me the strength and focus to get my **** together. I think that this is a sign of complete desperation on my part. I have never prayed for real, I just sit there and look around whenever there is a wedding or a funeral that requires a religious service. Do any of you pray? Does it help? And how if it does?

Edit: I thought of posting this because I was reading the recent thread on meditation and I thought that maybe people do this for a similar reason, or get a similar result?

In my OPINION.................... (for whatever that is worth)

God could not care less about "formal" prayers versus simply talking to Him.

I hope this is your first step in a long journey. Obviously I hope for your safety and peace on this life. But more so I hope for peace for you for ever. (and for everyone else here).

** Done - and I am NOT looking for any pro/anti religous war.

[Altered Moment]

"There are no atheist in fox holes."

I was raised catholic but I am not religious as an adult. I never go to church. I would however say I am a spiritualist. I pray a lot. I meditate a lot. I believe in a power greater than myself that I cannot understand. I don't believe there is this god that looks down on us and intervenes in our lives and says ok you get depression and you don't. Or that directly answers our prayers. I do however believe there is a power that we can tap into. All that it takes is willingness.

I have read some of Dawkins books on evolutionary biology and he is certainly one of the best in his field. I am on the totally opposite side of him on the god question. The debate between the materialist and spiritualist is a fascinating debate but I am clearly in the camp of the spiritualist. Look at some of the discoveries in quantum physics and string theory and it will blow your mind.

It seems Dawkins and his "God Delusion" and the materialist have gotten much more publicity than the spiritualist. I think this is because Dawkins argument is much easier to make. It is more in line with human perception and more logical. I believe that human perception is very very limited. There is a whole lot more to the story than we perceive. We get glimpses. There is much more that is unknown than is known.

We will probably get in trouble for discussing this in this section. Hopefully the mods will leave it here.

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by Viuam

I have never prayed for real, I just sit there and look around whenever there is a wedding or a funeral that requires a religious service. Do any of you pray? Does it help? And how if it does?

Well, I'll be honest. I'm an atheist through and through. I do not believe in some higher power... though if I was to entertain the idea, however remote that would be... I very much doubt such 'power' would have any real interest in us.
That's not to say that I don't want to believe... it just completely evades me.

With that said... I do on occasion go to church, 100% of the time in moral support of or under duress of my wife who is a devout Catholic. Like you I don't follow the doctrines of the whole, standing up, kneeling down... or even singing as I consider it hypocritical of me to 'pretend' for the sake of appearances.

However, when I go, I find it very peaceful... it's a time to collect my thoughts and think about stuff through in a situation where others around me are doing their thing.

I've even been to the odd chapel on my own, I love the statues, the stain glass of windows and the general ambiance of such places.

I don't think it's odd or desperate for you to pray. As said you are agnostic... so there is that scepticism on both sides of the coin... if it felt right and it helped you collect your thoughts... gave you a moment where you were open to possibilities and it eased your mind then good on you!

I am not mocking that in any way, I have a lot of respect for those with faith... just take at it at your own pace and see what unravels

[Fuzzybear]

[SeekerOfLife]

Talking to God as to a friend.

[Altered Moment]

Vium update us on how you are doing in a new city.

[Pierro]

I was brought up Catholic all my life, but one memory that sticks out in my head is the corpus cristi procession. I made my communion in May and then we walked in the procession in July (I think!). For the whole two hours we walked around singing, praying and freezing in the pouring rain. I thought to myself (being 7 yrs old), would God let children go through this. For what purpose does it serve? After that I spent two weeks in hospital, all for religion... On the other hand my father is a devout Catholic and as he says it has got him through some very bad times. The way I see it is praying doesnt hurt, in whatever form you pray in. As for me I am more along the lines of the Dalai Lama. Live a good life, try to help people, and dont judge.

[mulan]

In think prays work in two ways: you may have the luck that your prays come true or you believe them so much and you want them so much that eventualy they come true.
I don't believe that prays really help, I mean, I don't believe there's someone looking at you and hearing your prays. I mean, if there was a god like that you wouldn't need to pray. For me it sounds like a feeding to the lord's ego. If he was caring and nice he would look to your suffering and he would help you without you to ask something or give anything.
Even so, believing is good for the soul and for the spirit. I'm in medical school, and one thing that sometimes we have to ask, is the person religion, because among other things, it can help us to give strenght to that person.
I grew up in a very religious family, even so my father is not religious. So I grew up hearing the two sides of the story and chosing my one. I know a lot of pray, I used them sometimes, but they only work if what you ask was suposed to work.
I mean, I was once stupid enough (at my 12) to walk for hours on my knees while praying, and the ground was rough. So it hurted, my mother lighted lots of candles for me, in my country biggest santuary, and what? Really, this situations make me laugh because, they are so ridiculous. But it didn't help at all, here I am, 10 years later still struggling.

[Faking sane]

When I left Christianity, I did a lot of seeking, looking for something I could believe in. When I had explored all the options and settled into Paganism, I finally realized that what prayer, or meditation or casting spells does is all the same. It focuses the senders' energy on the problem at hand and the solution they'd like to see come out of it. What I liked about pagan traditions was the way it used symbolism to remind casters of their goals. Catholicism, Hinduism and the oral traditions do much the same, praying to the deities or saints that represent the outcome they seek. I no longer try to fit into any organized religion. I belong to the Universe that created me and I understand that what goes around comes back around. But I do think there's something Divine in that

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