[vital]

That's what it says here

Why Antidepressants Don't Work for Treating Depression*|*Mark Hyman, MD

following an article in the New England Journal of Medicine.

[kaliope]

thanks for sharing

[shabur]

I haven't read the article, but I have a hard time believing that. I don't think I would be here if it weren't for anti-depressants.

[Insignificant other]

I agree with Shabur .. I'm on Effexor and feel better.
It's a matter of finding the right one for you .. don't give up.

[vonmoxie]

Based on my own lack of success with them, if I continued the rest of my life believing that it's just a matter of finding the right one, I would end up becoming a statistic myself.

I have a hard time believing that any of those studies are even able to reliably quantify success. Many of them, being more under the scope these days, are only able to now report a 30% success rate, and I even question that. Myself, I've had a 0% success rate with them, and don't consider the long-term effects to have at all been worth my taking them.

It's just so dangerous that prescribers and fans will so often purport their usefulness to be such a sure thing. It's great that it works for some people but it does not mean that it will work for everyone; for some it's absolutely counterproductive to experience continued failures with anti-depressants whilst already depressed, based on the dream that there is an anti-depressant out there for everyone, like true love, and just to keep trying more and more of them. It is not for everyone, and the numbers show this quite clearly.

I do especially agree with the article's author that working towards resolving underlying causes of depression, instead of focusing on depression itself, is a much more effective approach. Talking to my therapist about, and focusing on my depression always seems so besides the point, and for me I think that medicating the depression can very much contribute to a sense of running in place.

[Altered Moment]

The article doesn't say why they don't work and doesn't have a link to the study.

The low efficacy of AD's and the simplicity or fallicy if big pharmas theories is pretty well established. What is a much more interesting question is why they work so well for some. What is going in that causes one to work in someone?

My results have been mixed. The one I am on now, Fetzima, has worked like a miracle since last April. My problem is that the ones that work quit working at some point. That is the case right now. I will increase the dose but at some point I will be done. What caused it to work so well these last nine months is what should be researched. And why some get 0 results. Build on the knowledge we have. Medical arts are trial and error and always have been.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vital]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

The article doesn't say why they don't work and doesn't have a link to the study.

Here's the study that the article refers to:

Turner EH, Matthews AM, LInardatos E, et al. Selective publication of antidepressant trials and its influence on apparent efficacy. N Engl J Med. 2008;358(3):252–260.

MMS: Error

[Kathleen83]

I haven't found a med that "cures" my depression. I HAVE found meds that help me deal with how I am, when I'm sinking fast. As it turned out, so far, the best med for me wasn't an anti-depressant, it was an anti-anxiety med. And surprisingly to me, Magnesium has proven to be very effective in stabilizing my moods. I still have crazy swings, but not as bad, not as intense, not as long, when on Magnesium. Having fought depression for 35+ years....I've reached the conclusion that there is no cure for depression...but there are many many MANY different tools to help fight it, tools that will allow me to have some good days. So now, I ignore studies, and I ignore docs who tell me things I know aren't helpful, and seek out the ones that are.

[shabur]

My meds have pooped out on me several times. I am fortunate that I have a pdoc who has a vast understanding of meds and has been able to make the appropriate changes. My depression is inherited, so there is no curing it for me. My meds, coupled with therapy, help me to maintain so I am able to function relatively well.

[vital]

Hi. Are you doing anything besides meds and therapy? - v

[co146]

I disagree medicine changed my life when I was on them. I enrolled in school and got my associates degree all because I finally felt good. I stopped my meds due to an insurance issue and everything is falling apart and falling apart fast. I started treatment again last week so I am looking forward to the day I feel better again. Stay strong and safe.

Cassie

[eaglegrafix]

I did some more research on the doctor that wrote this article and it turns out he peddles something called "The Ultra Simple Diet". Decide for yourself if someone who benefits from those who follow his tune is doing you a favor or not.

Google his name and you will find plenty of links. I can't post links yet.

[flewby]

of all the anti-depressants I've taken only prozac worked for me and not that much and it's effect seemed to wear off after a while. I do notice a difference with exercise and supplements and changing my diet. but I am still depressed despite all the things I'm doing. I'm not sure there is a magic cure

[vital]

Originally Posted by eaglegrafix

I did some more research on the doctor that wrote this article and it turns out he peddles something called "The Ultra Simple Diet". Decide for yourself if someone who benefits from those who follow his tune is doing you a favor or not.

Google his name and you will find plenty of links. I can't post links yet.

Hi eagle,

I think you've made a big mistake with your conclusion. You can see wikipedia for his references, but he is a very distinguished MD. Here is a recent talk he gave which I think is very interesting

About 13:44 in, he talks about depression specifically and points out the any of the following can cause it:

1. Gluten -> Autoimmune disease thyroid
2. Acid reflux -> acid blockers -> vitamin B12 deficiency
3. Vitamin D deficiency
4. Took antibiotics -> Altered gut flora -> Changes the way peptides and neurotransmitters are produced
5. Love Sushi -> Mercury poisoning
6. Hate fish -> Omega 3 deficiency
7. Love sugar -> Prediabetes

Every one of these things causes depression, the treatments for each are different and none of them will be helped by antidepressants.

It's true that Dr. Hyman writes bestselling books and goes on TV and such, but how else is he supposed to reach millions of people? I think he is passionate about what he's doing and he wants to make a real difference.

I'm pretty new myself, but welcome to the forum. - v

[eaglegrafix]

Hi Vital,
So you understand what my conclusion actually is this is it: I find the good Dr. very interesting and I respect his knowledge very much. I have learned a lot and am changing some of my dietary habits because of what I have learned from him.

Yes, he does appear on TV and sell books - my point is that he also sells supplements for his diet.

It is his article about how antidepressants don't work that I question, not his knowledge about contributors to depression.

[Nammu]

There are quite a few studies available now that have researched the low effectiveness of anti depression medicine and the great difficulty in withdrawing from meds that artificially flood the brain with chemicals. As someone said above the success of AD is only in the 30% range. The more interesting question is why they work so well for that 30% and not for the rest.

For my part ADs were horrible and made my life much worse off and all I heard from Pdocs was that the side effects were in my head, side effects that are now accepted as real! "let's try this one or this combination" they didn't have a clue. They just played Russian roulette with my life. It wasn't until I grew a pair and said no more that things starting getting better. Eating right, quiting sugar and artificial stuff helped a great deal and when I did need medicine it wasn't ADs but mood stabilizers that helped.

[Altered Moment]

There is more discussion in this thread-
http://forums.psychcentral.com/psych...epression.html

The most comprehensive study I know of is the Star*D by NIMH that said 65% after six months. It emulated real world clinical practice. The numbers are all over the place though in many studies.

I too am very curious why they work for some and not others whatever the percentage.

I don't have any problem with the doctor and his approach to "functional medicine". Who can argue with a patient centered holistic approach. Who can argue with unbiased evidence based medicine. No scientist or researcher is totally unbiased. That is why we have the scientific method and peer reviewed publishing. Debates can go on for years before something is agreed upon fact. Actually medicine has been moving toward this for some time as far as patient centered holistic approach. I do have a problem with the title of the article since neither the article or the NEJM study says anything about "Why Antidepressants Don't Work", but that is the media today. A title to get you to read it.

My mental health clinic has a motto of "Patient Centered Recovery". You are expected to be an active participant in your treatment and recovery. To have a say in your treatment. You are required to have a medical doctor and to see them. They do all there own blood work in house and do the standard blood test to check thyroid, cholesterol, sugars, etc. They make recommendations on what to address with your medical doctor. My pdoc has full access to my medical doctors records. I can call a psyche nurse any time. I have a therapist. They have a ways to go in my opinion but not to bad for a clinic with tight budget constraints.

[vital]

Originally Posted by eaglegrafix

Hi Vital,
So you understand what my conclusion actually is this is it: I find the good Dr. very interesting and I respect his knowledge very much. I have learned a lot and am changing some of my dietary habits because of what I have learned from him.

Yes, he does appear on TV and sell books - my point is that he also sells supplements for his diet.

It is his article about how antidepressants don't work that I question, not his knowledge about contributors to depression.

OK eaglegrafix. And YAY about your diet!

[vital]

Originally Posted by sidestepper

The more interesting question is why they work so well for that 30% and not for the rest.

Watch out! It doesn't mean that antidepressants work great for the 30%. You have to check the definition of "working." If I remember correctly, "working" means noticeable improvement in at least 50% of the symptoms. That's really not good at all.

[Musica91]

Hey Everybody,

This is just my own take on it, but anti-depressants never have worked well for me, and I've always just fought things naturally.

However, I've known many people (as some of you have said), that would not be here if it weren't for anti-depressants.

My own take on this is that its just individual.

And I just wonder if success or not on anti-depressants doesn't depend upon individual body chemistry?

Just a thought for whatever its worth.
Musica91

PS - nobody in my family takes anti-depressants well either, which leads me to believe there is some genetic predisposition there. But that doesn't mean its the same for everybody - because its not. (Whatever works - do it!)

[TheLastChapter]

My ex believes that anti-depressants are just placebos and that it is all in our heads. He has depression as well. Although he has found comfort in alcohol, while I have been on anti-depressants for a while now and I was quick to say the same thing, until I started to feel better. So I will not say it was all "in my head" because I was very unsure about it all. But I guess you need to believe in what you need inorder to get better.

[vital]

Originally Posted by TheLastChapter

My ex believes that anti-depressants are just placebos and that it is all in our heads. He has depression as well. Although he has found comfort in alcohol, while I have been on anti-depressants for a while now and I was quick to say the same thing, until I started to feel better. So I will not say it was all "in my head" because I was very unsure about it all. But I guess you need to believe in what you need inorder to get better.

Hi TheLastChapter,

I'm really glad you're feeling better, whatever the means although your husband finding comfort in alcohol sounds very ominous.

Your comment about believing yourself into getting better is interesting. It reminds me of the real but really surprising placebo effect. For something like depression, if you give someone a placebo, about 30% of them will get better, even though what they took does nothing at all (I supposed that this doesn't work for something like a broken arm!?). In a way, this huge effect represents in at least a partial way, your ability to somehow heal yourself.

-v

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by vital

Hi TheLastChapter,

I'm really glad you're feeling better, whatever the means although your husband finding comfort in alcohol sounds very ominous.

Your comment about believing yourself into getting better is interesting. It reminds me of the real but really surprising placebo effect. For something like depression, if you give someone a placebo, about 30% of them will get better, even though what they took does nothing at all (I supposed that this doesn't work for something like a broken arm!?). In a way, this huge effect represents in at least a partial way, your ability to somehow heal yourself.

-v

The Placebo affect is an amazing phenomenon and one they don't really study. It really is mind over matter but I don't think it is conscience.