[Puffyprue]

where People Go after they die?
Heaven or Hell Or Another place??
or them have reincarnation to become something else?
What will happen after people die?

[ariesmars]

I thought about those questions too. My answer would be nothing. I feel, after losing two cats recently, that they simple sleep away. I feel the process of dying is what hurts me the most. I can't possible feel or understand the pain or piecefulness of it, i don't know if it hurts the person (or pets) as much as those watching.

I doubt this is of any help, or if it even makes sense. I'm having a hard time myself and dont know if I make any sense.

[digdug]

I'm not religious, but I'll chip in my 2-cent philosophy on life to see if it helps. In a sadly ironic way, it has to do with my cats, so apologies to ariesmars (and condolences for your losses ).

Anyway, I look at my cats, and I see that they think they have things pretty together. They prance around and know they lay of their limited land pretty well (these are indoor cats). But the truth of it is, they don't anything about the world, at least not in the same way we do. They don't know that they're in a house, they know little about the outside world, they don't know what a world is, period.

And this is the important point: no matter what, my cats will never understand more than their brains can handle. They can't conceive of things on a scale that we can.

Now we humans think we're pretty important, but truth of the matter is that we're just as limited by our own minds as are my cats. Sure, we can understand more than they do, but it's pretty presumptuous of us to assume that we understand everything there is to know, or that we have the capacity to do so.

So maybe this doesn't answer your question, but it gives me hope, because it makes me realize that there's a whole lot going on around us that we simply don't understand. And that the things we take so seriously maybe aren't that serious. Remember, when cats are acting their funniest, they believe that what they're doing is important and serious business.

Anyway, hope this helps you a little bit.

P.S. I hope that this doesn't insult anyone's religious sensibilities. Though religions are based on belief, most are also in part based on mystery and mysticism and the unknown, so I think that my own beliefs don't clash with that kind of thinking.

[JudeeB]

Each one has to seek the answer to this question for themselves. As for me, I know where I'm going when I die. I accepted the promise and gift of heaven many years ago.

Judy

[stefano]

Being able to ask such questions is mankind's worst curse. I mean it.

[Capp]

didug, I really like your response!
it's also my belief that we actually know nothing yet claim to know much...
our little section of the world is just that...a small section of a larger and mainly ignored world/realm/whatever. I think many have been convinced by fear and by ignorance to deny the possibilty of its existence.
We box ourselves in at a great rate of speed, I believe.

Cap

[jbmorris2001]

I have asked that question many times and still do not know. I sometimes think there is a heaven and hell but that is only when I'm at the bottom and want to die. When I'm up and doing good I do not really think about it, and when I do it is simple sleep it away

[digdug]

Originally Posted by Capp

didug, I really like your response!
it's also my belief that we actually know nothing yet claim to know much...
our little section of the world is just that...a small section of a larger and mainly ignored world/realm/whatever. I think many have been convinced by fear and by ignorance to deny the possibilty of its existence.
We box ourselves in at a great rate of speed, I believe.

Cap

Thanks. The thing is, I think that if we did know more about the world than we do it would be quite scary, and we probably wouldn't be able to handle it. That's not to say it's bad - I hold this as an optimistic philosophy - but I just mean that it would be a bit of an overload to understand what's truly going on.

I think that's where the fear and the ignorance is from. We sense there's more but we don't know what to do with that thought.

Cheers.

[dirkp]

I think heaven is a real place because of all the spirits that have visited people in my family. Have had many people I know die and they came back and visited people in my family. Cousin's son shot himself in the head and came back as a spirit and talked to his pastor before his funeral so the pastor could relay a message to the family. Aunt died of cancer and visited a son. Uncle died of cancer and my cousin felt his presence when he was there to pick up his dying mother; it freaked him out becaues he's not a believer in life after death. A close cousin tried to kill himself and met his grandmother who told him it was not his time. A friend died in a car crash at 45. His about 6 year old son was injured and somehow saw the other side. The kid does dangerous things because he wants to be with his dad and he tells his mom, you live there or here what's the difference.Me personally, I've felt God's love for me a few times dramatically. I've also felt God's presence two times. One time I was praying and the answer was such a directed personal and unconditional love from God the father himself that I was shocked that he knew me, and I couldn't stop crying. The emotional message included many things but it also included one that said He was on my side and wanted the best for me. Despite the experiences I'm mad at them both for my suffering. Ironically I still have no intullectual or emotional doubt that they are both separate individuals that are very real and caring beyond human description. And with this, lots of reading life after death books and studying the bible etc, comes an associated belief that heaven is a real, beautiful, and peaceful place.

[Capp]

digdug, first...I am so sorry that I misspelled your name in my previous post.

what works for me is knowing that as I'm ready then more knowledge will come to me...might be a tiny bit or a whopper, but when my heart/soul is fertile and questioning, I believe there is guidance coming to me.

I also believe there is a more gentle and loving place than where we are now...I personally do not call it heaven and I do not believe it the destination.
But I do believe we see and feel bits and pieces of its beauty many times.
Fact or fiction? Does it really matter? As long as we are not hurt by thoughts of it, it can bring much hope to our lives.

[digdug]

Originally Posted by Capp

digdug, first...I am so sorry that I misspelled your name in my previous post.

what works for me is knowing that as I'm ready then more knowledge will come to me...might be a tiny bit or a whopper, but when my heart/soul is fertile and questioning, I believe there is guidance coming to me.

I also believe there is a more gentle and loving place than where we are now...I personally do not call it heaven and I do not believe it the destination.
But I do believe we see and feel bits and pieces of its beauty many times.
Fact or fiction? Does it really matter? As long as we are not hurt by thoughts of it, it can bring much hope to our lives.

Capp, hey, I didn't even notice the misspell...it's funny how your brain fills in the letters for you when they're not there.

Agreed with all you say. There's a great like from Ubik by late great sci-fi writer Philip K. **** that describes what you're saying. I don't have the book on me right now, but I'll dig it up next time I get my hands on it.

[ghosty72]

I think we die & that's it.

[Capp]

I'd like to read that book, digdug...I like for my mind to be challenged, and many times when I read differing views is when my prejudices come to light...a learning process that can sometimes embarrass me when I see how closed-minded I can be!

ghosty, I can understand your pov...we have no concrete evidence of what really happens when our bodies die.
for me, I can't imagine "that's all there is..."

[nowheretorun]

this is a powerful question for us since we can not know the truth until we arrive.. it allows us mystery and direction... if we choose a healthy destination for the unknown times in our lives, even tho it is unknown and completely not supportable except in spirit, the guiding light of its health will continually feed and nourish our own inner souls.... choose an everlasting spirit for your own afterlife if able, and that single choice will be your mast in the storm.. gather and build strength for your choice from the sources available...

interesting that a topic of afterlife extends into the period of time which appears to proceed it.. do we know there is no Judgment Day? we can make each day of our lives a personal judgment day (the definition of self consciousness), and we can choose a damning fate or a forgiving attitude towards our souls... forgiveness allows us to extend our existence further into a better place and time.... best to all always

[Capp]

...and that is a powerful answer.

it pointed out somethings to me that I was vaguely aware of them running through my mind.
many, if not most of us, are prompted to try and keep a positive attitude--shoot! lump most of those platitudes together. they may have nuggets of wisdom but I don't use them very much.
however, I do believe that our mindset will make a difference in our daily lives, and in the sum of our lives.
if we seek only negative and non-productive actions, that is our reward.
the same is true of the positive, I believe.
**obviously there are things we cannot control, but we can attempt to regulate our reactions**

Once I dropped my membership in The Church of Never-Ending Guilt, I knew more peace and hope than I had known in the last twenty years.
I believe in personal responsibility, but I do not believe in hellfire and damnation.

"Religion is for those who believe in hell, spirituality is for those who have been there."
~~unknown~~
attributed as unknown due to the number of attributions

Cap

[digdug]

Good discussion going here...I enjoy hearing everyone's perspectives and ideas.

I do often get the sense that the decisions we make have a more profound effect then we can understand...I mean from a moral point of view, or however you want to phrase it. This goes for big decisions, like career and family, as well as small ones, such as letting a stranger cut in front of you in line at the supermarket because they only have one or two items.

It's hard to explain, because I don't subscribe wholeheartedly to ideas such as karma or an omnipresent God...but I do think that the decisons we make have a resounding importance that we can't quite understand.

Of course none of us is perfect...we all make bad decisions, and we all cut people off in traffic, etc. But that's all part of being human.

I wish we could have more of these kinds of discussions here, but I guess they tend to provoke arguments. Still, I find that there are a lot of open-minded folks on this forum.

[nowheretorun]

a lot can be discovered with peaceful communication thanks everyone

[GorgeousGhost]

I would like to believe that the deceased go to a better place. I have been surrounded by so much death in my life and so much of it on a personal basis that if for selfish sanity reasons for myself alone, I would like to believe that there is a glorious place of sorts for all the people that I loved to go to and be happy. I have recently lost 4 more people (within the past 3 months) and as Christmas approaches, I just know there will be more people to leave. It is always that way with the people around me, Christmas seems to be the time when people are letting go more and more.

So yes, for the sake of all those left behind, I say that our loved ones go to a beautiful place where there is no pain, anguish or troubles.

[Capp]

Gorgeous Ghost, I also believe there is place of serenity and health when we cross over. Like you, I have lost family members and want them to have some kind of "reward" for what they endured in this realm.
Both my parents are deceased as are both my brothers. When my mother crossed over, I had a vision of one of my brothers escorting her to my father and my second brother was standing with him. My parents then began to waltz to the music they heard...
One of my brothers died from brain cancer most likely due to Agent Orange exposure. The physical remains of my other brother were left in Vietnam; his name is on the Wall.
Semper Fi!

Is it a foolish/wishful thing on my part? Perhaps. Could it be a short look-see about our spirits after they leave the body? Perhaps. It does give me comfort in many ways, anyway. It harms no one for me to feel this way...

Christmas can be a time when sick loved ones will give up. I've seen that in my nursing career. They just don't want to have another holiday where they put on that mask of bravery and so they choose to slip away...
On the other hand? Some of these folks will hang on because they want another holiday. I had one old woman tell me she wanted to see every bit of the holiday--along with whatever gifts were given to her...lol. That year her family didn't buy her anything useful, they used their imaginations and gave her some fun stuff. The best--at least to me--was a male stripper doing a modified strip! She clapped her hands in delight and grinned the whole time...that grin was still on her face when she left us.

Ain't life grand?
Cap

[Capp]

digdug, in many ways I do not believe we fully grasp that every decision we make does affect others. Obviously, major ones will. but small ones can have a tremendous affect also.
During one of my battles to find hope, the thing that broke that strangle hold on my spirit was a piece of gum. An old man was sitting on the other end of the park bench. I knew he was looking at me, and I wanted to bark at him to mind his own business. He chose to take out a piece of peppermint gum and offer it to me.
He may as well have offered me a huge present--why? I was not invisible to him. For a few minutes, I was a human being. I was not being ignored, told to get over it, etc., but I was a worthwhile woman because he felt I deserved that piece of gum.
I still have the wrapper...
So yeah, I believe our actions have positive or negative consequences. I try very hard to show others the respect that I expect from them.

Many years ago, for my sanity, I gave up the traditional idea of God...I let go of the fear that God was a granddaddy in flowing white robes...spending the day deciding who was going to get a dreaded disease, what kid would die and early death, and took perverse pleasure in our frenzied prayers.
I was raised in an environment that taught you got to heaven if you said just the right amount of prayers at the exact right moment, didn't fart sideways on Tuesdays, gave lots of money to The Church even if it meant your own loved ones went hungry...

Repeating myself, but I believe in personal responsibility.
I believe in a Loving Presence, a Sacred but not a punishing and threatening entity.
If I subscribe to the idea of paradise for living a good life as judged by anothers description and demands, then I absolve myself from making decent decisions and taking loving actions.

Truly, I hope discussions such as these will remain respectful and a source of shared ideas without the expectations of conversion to any belief system.

[nowheretorun]

hi Capp..

i like the way you've summed up and elicited others thoughts... its been a positive discussion about some unknown things and the open mindedness and consideration of others thoughts here are a great example of kindness and gentle spiritual exploration...

i think every has a choice of where they go after they die. I myself, love the thought of coming back as another person of an animal. its as all how you look at it.

[digdug]

Wanted to bump the thread, since it's such a good one, and Capp's contributions in particular are very moving.

I myself believe that "life" in a never-ending process. I don't mean the life once is living at the moment, of course. But I'm not sure if I'm talking about reincarnation, either...reincarnation is in an interesting idea, but I find it's too simplistic an explanation for what I'm thinking of.

I just feel that what makes us us keeps going and going beyond this mortal life, whatever that is worth. And I feel that those little moments, like the one Capp described - those little choices - play a major role in shaping how we navigate through whatever it is we're going through.

Also, somehow, though, I feel like we are guided in a way we can't understand. Quick story - many years ago, I was at a low point in my life and I felt the urge to do something drastic. I bolted out of my parents' house ready to do...well, I don't know what - something bad to myself. But before I left, I did a few incredibly stupid things - stupid in the sense that they prevented me from accomplishing my goal. I threw my car keys out of my pocket, along with most of my money. I also forgot to take the phone number of a very dear friend of mine who was living out of town, which I had written down (the # had changed recently so I didn't know it from memory). If I was going to do something to myself, I wanted to speak to this person first. But I could not go back and face my parents...I was stuck wandering through town.

Things got even weirder, though. I tried calling 411, but still I could not get my friend's new number, as it was unlisted. Then I thought I could e-mail her...there were 2 Internet cafes in town at the time (remember this is many years ago...also remember these were the days before everyone had a cell phone). I went to the first one and it had gone out of business. I then went to the second, and it was inexplicably closed for the evening - just that evening, for whatever reason, it closed early. And since I had no car, I was walking/bussing around town, and the whole experience just wore me out so much that I went back home and faced the music. It was tough, but after that day I no longer felt such a strong urge to harm myself.

It was just such a strange series of coincidences that I still think about today. Why did I drop my car keys and money? Why was it impossible to contact my friend, by phone or by e-mail? Why, at the lowest point in my life, was every obstacle thrown in my path to prevent me from doing something really bad to myself?

Anyway, just wanted to share that, and see what people thought. Cheers.

[Capp]

digdug, thank you for sharing this important event in your life...

For me, it solidified my believe that there is more going on then we realize--behind the scene so to speak. There is no absolute proof of it, but things like this sure do make ya stop and think!
There were too many coincidences to make it a natural progression. Did it have an feeling of whoa, something is going on that is scary but I'm grateful?
I hope so--things like this can plant seeds necessary for an attitude adjustment...at least it works that way for me.
Shoot, I get so involved in trying to make sense of it that my original purpose/action pales while I dissect What Just Occurred. (being easily distracted has its perks)

My gut feeling doesn't run to thoughts of cherubs protecting me. I don't like cherubs. I do like the idea of intelligent beings calmly putting up those roadblocks.
Will I ever move beyond this realm and be one of those beings? Perhaps. I'm not getting entangled in something that has no answer...I have hopes and the desire to move beyond some of my selfish ways but it doesn't mean that I will.

Weird litmus test for me. Would I freely give my chocolate to another person...that person may be hungry or just in need of a treat.
No, I'm not being funny...I love chocolate enough that I have to ration it.
It would be an act of love for me to not share it, but to give the whole darn thing to them. The nearest I've come is secretly licking it before giving it away...lol

It's just my way, but I cannot make blanket decisions about these things...it's one thing at a time. I'm not heading for sainthood or any type of accolades, so that means there will be times I won't share, I'll be cranky if you ask, and I'll fly away if you pick at me.
**Gasp!** I'm human
I do my best to be kind and helpful, but I will not be a doormat.

Cap

[nowheretorun]

as a child i made easy decisions about life and knew i had time to discover the unknowns (pretty assumptive of me)

when i began questioning i realized there was quite a bit of studying involved if i expected to find answers..

books can give us insight but it is our imagination that makes it become a physical reality for us..

there are so many ways to worship and appreciate this thing called life..

somehow we might believe that healthy thoughts in life will somehow assist us after we pass on to the other side..

it cant hurt to try imo, since we know healthy thoughts are what make life more smooth, it stands to reason that healthy thoughts make the afterlife more smooth as well..

and frankly, if there are avenging gods on the other side, i dont want to make any of them angry..

it works for me to give sacredness to all things, in life and death also...

we can find a seed of light in any object or thought we fall into.. the trick is knowing where the rope is when we fall into the abyss..

a positive and supportable belief system can anchor us in these times and give us solid ground to stand on when storms rise...