[TrespassersWill]

The more I think about it the grayer things get. My T did explain MPD to me. She said I dissociate, but that I don't have MPD. I think she said I don't have DID then. But isn't there more kinds of DID than just MPD?

How does one even get diagnosed with MPD? How does the T always know if you are more than one person? Does a person with MPD always know they are splitting off? Is it possible to not even be aware of it? I've contemplated that I might have MPD and never knew it. Like I sometimes suspect one part of me has Aspergers and the other doesn't. Even some of my doctors plainly see Aspergers in me and others swear I'm too social and give eye contact thus couldn't have it. Then there's other things like sometimes mostly in past I have gotten really angry with people and act unlike my normal self whereas I'm generally considered very calm and docile. So I've wondered if I might have MPD or if for instance I'm just simply still moody from the head injury because frontal lobe injuries often do cause a change in temperment. Its just that I can change so quickly from one mood to complete and exact opposite that sometimes it concerns me.

Maybe this will help?

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=89088

And this.

DID is believed to follow severe trauma including persistent psychological, physical, or sexual abuse. In this disorder, distinct, coherent identities (not moods) exist within one individual and are able to assume control of the person's behavior and thought.

DID is often difficult to detect without the use of specialized interviews and/or tests, due to:

1) the hidden nature of the dissociative symptoms,
2) the coexistence of depression, anxiety, or substance abuse which may mask the dissociative symptoms.
3) it is not uncommon for a decade or more to pass before a correct assessment of DID is made.

Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified

Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (DDNOS) is an inclusive category for classifying dissociative syndromes that do not meet the full criteria of any of the other dissociative disorders.

A person diagnosed with Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (DDNOS) typically displays characteristics very similar to some of the previously discussed dissociative disorders, but not severe enough to receive their diagnoses.

http://www.strangerinthemirror.com/dissociative.html

[TrespassersWill]

Thanks. That other post helped some to explain it. I still don't know how I can know if I have DID. I certainly dissociate I know that much. But I've had a lifetime of neglect, abuse, trauma and such to need to escape from. I think I also dissociate because of chronic pain from medical issues. So in that sense I don't see how dissociation is a bad thing since it does what prescription meds have not accomplished which is escaping physical pain. I even fell once and broke right leg and left ankle but somehow managed to crawl over rocks and part of the way even walk to my car then drive 45 minutes to get medical care because I was all alone out in the wilderness. Tell me that's not good dissociation!

Originally Posted by TrespassersWill

I still don't know how I can know if I have DID.

Ask your T to do some screening tests.
Here's a few.

Dissociative Experiences Scale (DES).
Dissociative Disorders Interview Schedule (DDIS)
Structured Clinical Interview for Dissociative Disorders (SCID-D).

This is the current criteria.

Ooops, sorry TrespassersWill, I meant to answer this before.

Originally Posted by TrespassersWill

She said I dissociate, but that I don't have MPD. I think she said I don't have DID then. But isn't there more kinds of DID than just MPD?

There are different kinds of dissociation, but not different types of DID.

Dissociative identity Disorder formerly known as MPD is one disorder.

There are other dissociative disorders (which is where a lot of confusion comes in because people hear dissociation and automatically think DID) that I'll list here.

What are Dissociative Disorders?

Depersonalization Disorder - a feeling that your body is unreal, changing or dissolving. Strong feelings that you are detached from your body.

Dissociative Amnesia - not being able to remember important personal information or incidents and experiences that happened at a particular time, which can't be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.

Dissociative Fugue - there is severe amnesia, with moderate to severe identity confusion and often identity alteration. For instance, a person travels to a new location during a temporary loss of identity. He or she may assume a different identity and a new life.

Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) - this person may experience flashbacks, reliving the trauma repeatedly, which causes extreme distress. This, in turn, triggers a dissociative, numbing reaction.

Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (DDNOS) - different types of dissociation may occur, but the pattern of mix and severity does not fit any specific dissociative disorder.

Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) - sometimes called Multi-Personality Disorder (MPD). Someone with DID experiences shifts of identity as separate personalities. Each identity may assume control of behavior and thoughts at different times. Each has a distinctive pattern of thinking and relating to the world. Severe amnesia means that one identity may have no awareness of what happens when another identity is in control.

Hope I'm helping and not confusing.

[TrespassersWill]

Thanks Orange Blossom. Don't worry about confusing me if there is any confusion it is on my part to begin with as I try to wrap my brain around this concept. Do you think if my T had met an alter that she would keep it from me? I just don't know if I have alters. My first introduction to MPD was from a former co-worker who told me she was 6 people and well it was all very complex, each person had a name and identity. Was all very confusing and I couldn't comprehend how someone could be so many people because it would be hard for me to even remember all their names. And how could they all have different names? I mean wouldn't you all have the same name aside from say a child alter who went by a childish nickname? So when I look at it from that perspective I'd say I don't have DID.

But then things like Dissociative Fugue make me second guess things. Because I have no recollection of most of the 1980's and early 1990's. I mean it just seems like there is a veil or curtain blocking out that time in my life. I remember bits and pieces, but its so unclear yet I remember vividly things before that time period so I don't know if I can chalk it up to just being forgetful. But my life is complicated as I had 3 head injuries in early 1990's. So they headbanging could have knock loose some memories perhaps? It was also suggested by a neuropsych that something he read in another doctors report, of my having olfactory hallucinations, suggests I have had temporal lobe seizures and not even know it. So if I understood the info on the chart in the first link things like head injuries and seizures are suppose to be taken into consider before diagnosing with DID. So I'm not sure where that leaves me standing.

[possum220]

I took a couple of tests with one p'doc and its didnt show me as having many symptoms of DID. Four years later I saw another P'DOC. I didnt do any tests with this one. But I really trusted him. (Trust is a real key in any with counselling.

Eventually other parts came forward and it was weird. Other voices parts came out of my mouth. Why? - because "they" trusted him.

There is no way you can force things to happen. You can always get a second opinion. You are you, and things will happen if and when they happen.

Relax...........

Think of nature...... everything happens in its season.

Possum

[TrespassersWill]

Originally Posted by possum220

Eventually other parts came forward and it was weird. Other voices parts came out of my mouth. Why? - because "they" trusted him.

Wow that is really freaky! And really cool too!! Did you know when "they" came forward or did he have to tell you?

[TrespassersWill]

What tests exactly? My T never has "tested" me for anything. I've had several neuropsych evals and none of them mentioned dissociating in any form. So I don't know if they tested for it. But I did just have a lengthy eval a few months ago and that neuropsych didn't come up with it. But they all miss my OCD too which is fairly obvious to me that I have it yet no dr ever picks up on it so I just never bring it up. So point being could the neurop's miss DID too? I cannot think of any questions they asked that would pertain to DID.

[possum220]

Hi Again - In OB's 4th post on this thread it mentions criteria and tests. Some are written. Some will show up in your behaviour. My current P'doc said he didn't believe in tests. So we just talked. I wasn't looking for voices. I wasn't even looking for DID.

The first voice that showed up with my current P'doc just kinda pushed its way out of my mouth and person who normally is at the front got pushed to the back. It was freaky. And weird. I don't know what each part is saying and am still struggling when the others push their way through. One voice is harsh/demanding. One is kinda rough/loud and sometimes stays out for long periods which can be embarassing when I am not talking to my p'doc. One is very very soft and the kids havent showed themselves to my pdoc but I can hear their chatter in my head. And they talk to me in the car. One part is not able to talk and just makes my neck spasm (often painful). One part just grunts. (maybe they are babies who haven learnt to talk??)

They didnt all turn up straight away. It has taken 4 years so far to tell. Like I said the kids still wont talk to him but I know they are there. They are close though.

Sometimes things get switched when I am talking to strangers who trigger a part. Sometimes when people who dont know me see it happen, get scared. It doesnt happen often with strangers - but it can be very embarrassing. Sometimes parts also switch when I am talking to friends. I also stutter at times and I dont know if it it me or a part that is trying to protect me.

My p'doc doesnt specialise in DID. He doesn't tell/ask the voices to come out. We just chat. And if another part wants to chat it will. Only one part can talk at a time. When this does happen my mind feels very 'Expanded'.

Maybe you could try and find a P'doc who specialises in DID. They might be more helpful. But like I said b4 trust is a key and try not to force yourself into a box. You are still you - regardless of some label. If you have DID you don't have to go looking for it, it will find you. Personally I'm not even sure what a Neuropsych does - I just found a normal garden variety psychiatrist.

DID is a coping mechanism that our minds put into place years ago . My doctor told me it is an intelligent mind that splits in oder to cope with trauma as its the only way it knows how to survive at that time.

Take care

Possum

Originally Posted by possum220

You can always get a second opinion. You are you, and things will happen if and when they happen.

I agree with possum. It sounds like you're questioning your T's dx and believe that a dx of DID would be a better fit than another dissociative disorder. It's perfectly within your right to get a second opinion, maybe from a p-doc who specializes in DID like possum said. If T told me tomorrow I was ABC or XYZ it wouldn't change a thing. Healing is healing no matter what I have or don't have. It's a very personal journey. I do want to add that a dx was important to me when I first started in therapy so I could educate myself.

Do you think your doubts about your dx might get in the way of you trusting T enough to have your alters come forth? Without alters presenting your T won't be able to "officially" dx DID. It could be that she suspects it but has to rule out a number of other disorders first.

If she rules out PTSD or BPD or any of the other disorders in which dissociation is pretty common and you still don't meet all four requirements for a dx of DID, she might dx you with DDNOS.

So maybe T is just watching and waiting. If dissociation is seriously interfering with your life, I would talk to T more about it or maybe look for a specialist or ask T to consult with one.

Furthermore, dissociative experiences are among the diagnostic criteria for acute stress disorder (ASD) and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) as well as borderline personality disorder.

Moreover, dissociative psychopathology is found in a wide variety of mental disorders (e.g., schizophrenia, affective disorders, obsessive- compulsive disorder and somatoform disorders) and has been associated with distinct personality traits.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1525127

[possum220]

Sorry I couldn't let this pass

Originally Posted by TrespassersWill

Wow that is really freaky! And really cool too!!

Ummm Really Cool having DID.....???? Being unable to control what comes out of ones mouth and what haunts them in their mind...........??? Its not really cool. People who have this are not a circus act. They are human beings.... Fractured human beings.

Possum

[wanttoheal]

You are brave TresspassersWill. I refused to believe that I had DID when I was first diagnosed. I searched for reasons as to why I wasn't DID instead of the other way around. Even now I deny it sometimes, but I'm better at acceptance now than I was a few years ago. I guess it's part of how DID works for my brain though- deny, dissociate, hide, avoid. I do it well, even to the detriment of my physical and mental health, lol. I think it's great that you are so open to knowing.

If you can, don't worry about the diagnosis so much, but if you really want to be sure, I agree that you should see a T who can give you tests to see what's going on. It sounds like you had tests that determine the physical aspect of what is going on for you? Perhaps you can take mental health tests from someone. If your T can't give them to you, perhaps she can refer you to someone who can? There are tests they can give you that will also help in diagnosing things like OCD too.

Orange has some really good information. Dissociative disorders cover a lot of area and one doesn't have to have the extreme side of it (DID) to experience interference with one's life. DID is pretty specific in its criteria but they have other dissociative disorders that cover pretty much every place on the spectrum.

I started therapy for something completely different. I had no clue about the DID. Sometimes I wish I still didn't. Life with DID is not a death sentence by any means, but it is very difficult at times (many times). I've never thought it cool, though there are times I am thankful it saved me (and other times I wish it hadn't).

Personally I hope you don't have DID because the way to get DID oftentimes is through extreme and long lasting abuse so horrific that no child should have ever had to have endured. It causes such disruptions in my life that some days I struggle to do what I need to do. But if you do, there's hope. DID and dissociative disorders are a learned behavior and can be healed.

Best of luck to you as you walk your path.

[Quorrah]

Trespassers--

Hi. How strange for me to see posts from someone that sounds so much like me.

I, too, have been diagnosed (recently) w/dissociative attributes. I do not have MPD. There is a question as to whether it went that far previously, but it's uncertain.

I have sustained permanent brain damage. I have physical pain too.

Dissociation is not always bad. This is just how some of us have learned to cope. I'd say the end-result is more important. If we dissociate while driving and cannot "come back", that could be not so great. If we dissociate in order to survive, as you did when physically injured, what's wrong w/that (unless it lead, also, to negatives as well as positives--differentiate between the two, if you can).

Please look @ the info that was supplied re: PTSD. This is my main trouble. As you do, I have huge portions of my life missing. In my early 30's, some of this info came back. I called it 'remembrances'. Sometimes while sleeping, sometimes while awake. I still have trouble telling the difference between these, dreams, and reality at times. Part of PTSD can be memory loss. I still lose times/faces/days on occasion. It used to scare me a lot but now I realize that this is normal for me and I will be okay.

Diangosis doesn't mean as much as what you know you feel.

I also have BPD. Sometimes diagnoses are multiple (actually oftentimes).

Good luck!

[TrespassersWill]

Originally Posted by possum220

Sorry I couldn't let this pass


Ummm Really Cool having DID.....???? Being unable to control what comes out of ones mouth and what haunts them in their mind...........??? Its not really cool. People who have this are not a circus act. They are human beings.... Fractured human beings.

Possum

Possum,

I'm sorry if I offended you. I wasn't trying to make light of DID. Its just quite fascinating and amazing that people can even do that. Or that their mind can do that. Even T's will tell you DID people are more fascinating to counsel than the average patient who are just woman who complain about their boyfriend watching too much football. Most people cope with trauma by drinking or taking drugs; very few people can split personalities in order to cope. I think it does take a higher IQ person to do that. And despite its consequences its probably a better way to cope and survive than substance abuse. Its amazing that humans evolved enough to do that.

[TrespassersWill]

Wanttoheal- I live in a somewhat isolated place meaning there aren't many T's to chose from and there aren't any other towns nearby that have docs. So its not like other places I've lived where I could easily pop over to the next big city to see a specialist. The next big city is 250 miles away. I also further limit the selection of T's because I won't/can't go to a male because of issues I have with that. I have a real hard time even verbally communicating with others so changing to the T I have now was extremely difficult. I think I'm still overcoming trust issues with her. Heck I'm even dealing with learning new things like expressing myself. I mean nobody ever asked me how I "felt" about anything until I with to counseling. I grew up not being allowed to feel, had no feelings as an adult other than sadness, anger, fear and hurt but kept it bottled inside. I got into adult relationships and friendships that mirrored that same sort of thing. So I'm still learning how to just talk openly so changing T's would be devastating. Plus overall I like the one I have now though there's a couple things she makes me angry about, not understanding certain issues. That said I found it weird when I realized I was somewhat disappointed when my disability caseworker called me to say the mental exam was being canceled. Actually that's a good sign for my case. But instead I was feeling a little bit sad I wouldn't get the chance to talk to a different T to see if she had a different take on things and it be paid for.

Quorroh- Maybe I didn't mention it in previous posts. Honestly I don't remember for sure. But I also have multiple diagnosis of complex PTSD. That's one dx I'm very certain on. I'm not sure the dissociation is related to that. I really don't know. But this dissociation is multiple times a day. I lose hours of time where I space out at home. I even get angry if someone disturbs me during those times ie: phone call. Then I also get triggered easily, more easily, during those dissociating times if say UPS knocks on the door to deliver a package. Yeah having someone knock on the door (why do men bang on the door so loud?) sends me reeling. My T says this is why I am so hard to help heal because I keep getting re-traumatized and triggered. I've even been told to avoid certain people because they re-traumatize me. I'm even freaking out because I just got a call on my cellph from an out of town number I don't know. No one has called me for days now I get an unknown caller. I couldn't answer it so am trying to get brave enough to check the voice message. I always feel like someone is after me.

Originally Posted by TrespassersWill

Possum,
Its just quite fascinating and amazing that people can even do that. Or that their mind can do that.

Yes, and very sad that they have to.

very few people can split personalities in order to cope.

Only children are capable of fracturing to that extent yet most people are well into the third and fourth decades of life before they're even diagnosed.

Dissociation is a common defense mechanism against childhood abuse.

There is no adult onset of Multiple Personality.

Only children have the flexibility, to fracture off from the "core" personality and escape the traumatic and painful memory.

The common belief among most professionals is the personality splintered or fractured before the age of five.

http://allpsych.com/journal/did.html

[TrespassersWill]

From that link:

Symptoms

• Voices_ Approximately one third of patients complain of auditory or visual hallucinations, it is common for these patients to complain that they hear voices in their heads but are merely the personalities within, communicating with one another. Often times, the MOD is misdiagnosed as a schizophrenic due to “hearing voices”, but the multiple personality hears the voices inside their head in contrast to the schizophrenic which hears from the outside of themselves. Often a multiple before diagnosis will speak of noise or clatter inside making it difficult for them to concentrate. It is possible for the multiple to hear many distinct and separate voices, of all ages talking at the same time.

I have that going on. I just never admit to it because I didn't know what it was and didn't want to get diagnosed with schizo because I'm quite sure I'm not. Because the voices are inside. Comes and goes, not all the time.

[wanttoheal]

Sounds like you should find someone to test you then. It might be worth the 250 mile drive to find a testing place. It doesn't mean you have to go there for therapy; you could just go and get tested and bring the results back to your T.

[multipixie9]

T.W.

I hope you can find the information and help you need. I went for counseling due to severe depression and my T started telling me she could see me dissociating when I came to see her. She did a test on me and then we went back and forth on this issue for years. I do have alters and some of them have the job of denying that anything bad happened to me. Others deny that certain memories are really true. Their job was to keep me acting and looking as normal as I could, to avoid negative attention and further abuse. I do have many parts with different jobs and they helped me survive a hellish childhood.

I've found it difficult to believe I had DID. I just want to be like other people - with one voice in my head, just one. I know that DID is just an extreme of what we all do. It is normal for people to zone out for a bit of time when stressed/bored etc. But the extremes of this are their own form of misery. I lose time and my husband (who doesn't believe DID exists) will get angry when I can't remember a movie we saw or something we did. He acts like I am mentally lazy or something. It's not fun to suddenly change from my upfront middle-aged life to feeling like a sad 4 year old or a pissed off teen. I make so many plans to do something "healthy", like exercise more and eat a bit healthier and then later that day someone switches places so they can get something "yummy" and unhealthy to eat because that makes them feel calmer and there goes my plan for health that day and if the adult me gets angry with the little me there can be a mental storm that lasts for a few hours and that is just ONE of the sub-level scenes going on in an average day. There are many days when I have all sorts of scenarios going on in my mind and various parts of me seeking to control the body for their own purposes and needs and worries....

I don't mean to beat this point to death, but I just want peace and continuity in my head. I no longer believe I can force this to happen and that I have to let everyone get their needs met so we can actually heal and perhaps become a singleton inside.

Could it be that you just want very much to figure out what is wrong in your life and how to get some peace??

I do hope you find what you need - a place of healing and release and peace.

Leslie and her Pixies

[possum220]

Dear TW

Ty for your apology. I was just kinda shocked that some-one would think it was cool. It seems you are searching so hard to help yourself. Australia is a bit of a backwater in having Doctors who know how to deal with this stuff. They don't teach it at much at Medical Schools. So it it hard to find some-one who can deal with it let alone be comfortable with that person too.

I wish you well in your journey. Maybe if you stop pushing so hard the voices/alters may feel comfortable talking with your current therapist. Therapy for DID isn't drugs, just lots of talking. Next time you are at your T's and you hear voices in your mind why not try and tell your T what you hear?

I wish you peace and answers hun.


Possum

[Quorrah]

Re: comments about DID--I think the mind is brilliantly amazing; however, it's sad when the mind has to practically turn intself in loops in order to survive. I have to wonder sometimes: What kind of a world is this where children are forced to be so self-reliant??? I guess, as we get older, we can then begin to take a look at how resourceful we've been and go on from there.

Note: When I was still fully planted in 'victimization mode', I had a harder time. What I mean by this is that I would jump easily, constantly wonder what others were trying to do to me, scared (literally) of males, etc. I still have the initial jumping reaction...actually, I still have ALL of these but I am learning to control my responses and to try to stay level-minded (instead of all emotions or all logic--I tend to get stuck in one or the other). I tried DBT (Dialectical Behaviour Therapy). It's mainly for BPD individuals. I even tried a male therapist for a while. (The male didn't work and DBT did; point is, I tried both.)

Voices can be heard through a number of different diagnoses. I stopped trying to figure out WHICH diagnosis was doing it and, instead, centred on how to fix it, if possible. I found this was the most direct approach for myself and that I spent the least amount of energy w/the largest 'answer'.

Yes, I agree w/the other responses. Please do seek another T opinion.

I hope my comments are helpful to someone and don't seem pushy.

Thanks. Quorrah

[TrespassersWill]

Well I see T on Monday so I'll see what comes up in conversation. Sometimes something else comes up if she asks me something first thing other than what I had planned on talking about. I may ask her if she has seen me dissociate because now I wonder if she has though I'm not exactly sure how she could tell when an alter come up with a client. I think I am still trying to totally grasp the DID concept.

Here's a question for you all- Anyone find slips of paper with a name and phone number laying around your home or in your pocket and wonder where did this come from or who is this person who's number I have? I used to have that happen a lot a few years ago. At the time I just chalked it up to being so busy with work and then having short term memory loss from the head injury and that I was just "forgetting" where the slips of paper came from. I have been thinking there may be another reason I don't who those people are.

[multipixie9]

TW,

Yes I do find information/names and numbers around and wonder "what the heck"? It happened just the other day and then I remembered my general doc's nurse gave me the name and number of an orthopedic surgeon...I think. That is the freaky part, I think what I just wrote is the correct explanation but I have no memory of her giving me the note with the information on it and I know it is not my handwriting. So... sounds similar to what you said/asked.

Being dissociative is seldom boring. Some days I long for boredom! It beats the three-ring circus going on in my mind most days!

Leslie

[TrespassersWill]

For me the main complaint is losing so much time. I mean I dissociate probably minimum of 6 hours a day but I think more like 12 or more a lot of days. I mean I can't get anything done for zoning out or whatever the heck I'm doing. I don't even know what I'm doing all day if someone asked me.