[peaches100]

I'm feeling confused and nervous about my dissociation. I don't fit into the pattern of the typical DID patient who loses time. I don't lose time per se . . .i never "wake up" not knowing where i am, or not knowing what i did during the day. I also don't have alters that have names and i don't hear voices.

However, I am very forgetful. I can get so caught up in my head thinking about things that i can lose track of how much time has gone by. I am not very aware of my physical surroundings, and i also have alot of trouble figuring out how i feel about things. I can feel inside that i have different "parts" of myself that think and feel differently, which makes me appear wishy-washy because i often can't figure out how i "really" feel.

I have a very distinct childlike part of my personality, which is very different from the competent, adult way i present myself in my daily life. I was not aware that i had a wounded child part of me until after i had my breakdown. Now, i am very aware of it, but feel ashamed and try to hide this child part of me at all costs so nobody will know i have it. I am really good at hiding it, and usually the only time the child part of my personality slips out is if i get triggered in some way that reminds me of my past childhood traumas, or if i become under great stress. Because of this, nobody would guess i have dissociative problems. Only my husband and my t have seen me in my dissociated child state. (I also have other child and adult states, but the hurt vulnerable child state is the second-most prominant after my normal adult self).

My t has told me that i definitely have a problem with dissociation, but i took a test awhile back that seemed to indicate that i was only about halfway along the continuum between a non-dissociative person and somebody with DID. Because of this, i do not think i have the DID diagnosis. However, the more my t talks to me about allowing my feelings to come out -- and the more i loosen my iron grip and start expressing things -- the more it appears that i do indeed often think and feel as a child would. Not only that, but i often find myself saying things to my t (or emailing them) when i get into that child-type state that i later feel very surprised that i said and feel ashamed of. . .things that i would never say, or even feel, when i am in my regular adult mode. They truly do feel like different "parts" of me, even though i know they are all me.

Some time back, my t told me that she had listened to the voice messages i've left her over time. She said that it was very clear to her that i talked in two very different voices. Also, she told me yesterday that when i email her from my child-like state, she can tell because i make spelling or grammatical errors that i do not make any other time. She told me that i (adult me) should try to help (child) me with her grammar and spelling. She has been continually asking me to pay attention more to the parts of me and try to find out what they need rather than trying so hard to deny them or shut them up.

What's scaring me is the more my t talks this way, the more i think maybe i do actually have DID. Regarding the child-like emails with the errors in them, i would say that i "am" aware when i send her those emails and i also usually know that have errors in them. But it is like the child part of me is up front in the driver's seat, and for some reason i seem unable to correct the errors before i hit SEND. Somehow it feels wrong to me to correct the emails because it is the child trying to say things, and if the adult steps in and "fixes" the message, then it is really a message from the adult and not the child. Which makes the child feel like her way of communicating is bad or wrong. So it is like the adult me is watching and aware that the child is sending a message, but the message is not from the adult. Often, the adult part of me disagrees with what the child is saying and feels differently, but again, i let it happen because i can feel the child wanting and needing so badly to be heard.

I do not seem able to make the child show up. I can't will her to be present. I can't always feel that she is there when my t wants to speak to her. She shows up on her own, and i seem not able to control that. However, if she shows up, i can usually use sheer force of will to deny or push her out of awareness if i am in a situation where allowing her to surface would compromise my standing with others. On the few occasions when she shows up and is extremely upset -- and i can't control the outcome -- (usually when i've been triggered regarding past trauma), then i suddenly behave with all the intensity of a traumatized child, sobbing so hard i can barely breathe, losing my awareness of the present, and with no knowledge at all that there even is an adult part of me that i can turn to for help. Only my t and my husband have seen this -- and one time my in-laws saw it. My h has told me it was scary. My in-laws were totally shocked as they had never seen me that way and did not know what to do to help me.

So. . .I don't know what i'm trying to say here. I guess i just feel like i'm groping around trying to find some definite answer as to whether i have DID or not. . .or to what degree i am dissociative. Does it sound like DID? Is what i am describing very different from the way folks with DID experience their parts/alters? Or do i sound just a little bit dissociative -- but pretty much normal -- and not where it is a problem?

I guess i know in my heart that something about this is not normal. And my t and i do talk about my "parts" alot. But sometimes, i get scared about it all. And at those times, i start fishing around for proof that maybe i'm not dissociative at all and that maybe it only "seems" that way.

Can anybody help shed some light on this?

[peaches100]

PS - With regard to my past history, I came from an alcoholic home where there was yelling and verbal abuse but no physical abuse. I had SA from a neighbor. I also remember being very upset often as a child and not getting any help to deal with it. I had a number of smaller traumas (abandonment fears because my mom took alot of business trips, and constant moving from place to place). But still. . .it doesn't seem like i've had enough bad traumas that i would end up with DID. And since i don't fit the normal DID profile, I just feel confused about this. . .

[Fuzzybear]

((((((((((((((( peaches )))))))))))))))

Here listening

I am not going to comment on whether I think you have DID because it seems here that is the wrong thing to do. I suggest you look at the criteria and what is known scientifically about true cases of DID to answer your question.
Some of the main criteria for DID are loss of time, not knowing about the actions of alters until communication is developed between alters, and the inability to control alters, because they have been behaving as their job for years...that is why they were created. In addition, there are several "alters" that are believed present in all systems. They are so common, that many T's who are truly experienced with DID won't diagnose DID unless they are there.

You also seem to remember your "traumas" and that they occured. What people forget is that alters were created to handle the traumas. So, it is common that people do not remember everything, because as a child a "switch" occurred that did the job to protect the host child from experiencing the trauma. So, literally some people with DID do not recall their childhoods or again have lost lots of time and years of childhood. The host starts recalling things when communication among alters begins.
Some DID people do recall some parts of their traumas, because it was constant and repetitive and "switching" was not always possible, but their childhood is usually filled with holes.

There is also something called an inner child and regression. This is not DID. Many believe everyone has an inner child that can behave, act, feel, etc as child when a person is regressed. Regression occurs in therapy.

But, in regards to your T.....are you the person who's T does Internal Family Systems therapy? If so, then it is common to use "parts" lingo, because IFS actually believes that everyone has parts, but DID is extreme.

So, it would be common for someone in IFS therapy to say "a part of me wants to hurt myself, but a part does not." But, the person does not have to be DID.

It would also be very common for T to "want to speak with that part" or talk about the "parts" of people.

IFS is ALL ABOUT PARTS! It was not created for DID, but it deals with the multiplicity of the mind, but the "parts" are not as extreme as the "parts" of DID.

So, yes, it is very normal for your IFS T to talk about parts.


I don't think your answer will be found here. I think it will be found by either looking at what is known about DID or directly asking your T (if your T is trained and has had experience working with DID)

Best.

Tollhouse, I liked your responce and I agree with what you said..

Peaches, only a qualified therapist can diagnose DID, but some T's do some inner child work. I would think that the more work you do in therapy, the more clear it will be what your dissociation degree is.

For us, it was an insider coming out and identifying herself and after a couple of sessions with her, our T put alot of pieces together, "interviewed" me and we began the journey of working with insiders and all that is involved with that.

I hope that you will not let the questions get in the way of your healing journey and let things evolve as they do not forcing anything or having any real kind of mind set that you are either "this or that".....in time that will become clear. IMO, the work that goes into healing is more important than the diagnosis.

[complic8d]

((((peaches))) Wow! I feel like I could have written what you just did. After reading the reply asking about IFS therapy, which is what I am doing with my t, I did a search and found your posts on surrendering. I am right in that same spot, how do I nurture my inner child when I didn't receive it, how do I get that from t and how much?.... just about everything you posted. I am very confused about how to do this work and that never ending aching need that is there all the time. I don't even think I am making sense, but I am feeling like there is someone who can finally understand.
I also have dissociative problems that are along the scale somewhere, and I did receive a DID dx after my last 2 hospitalizations although we're not sure about that. I guess I don't really care what the actual dx is, just what to do to help me.
I am really interested in discussing this therapy with you, we seem to have so many of the same issues. I get confused with all the "parts" stuff too.
I'm sorry if I am rambling, I just feel I can relate so much.
Please take care of yourself, and pm me if you want, I really think we can understand each other.

[Luce]

Hi Peaches. Are you familiar with the theory of structural dissociation at all? If not, look it up. It seems to be the direction that scientific thought about dissociative disorders is heading.
Basically the theory of structural dissociation suggests that in dissociative disorders the personality is dissociated not as a result of splitting, but rather a result of failing to integrate in the normal way. What the researchers are saying is that human beings are born with a fragmented set of emotional states (angry, sad, content etc). In the course of typical development (with appropriate parenting) they learn to integrate these emotional states and form a single cohesive sense of self. (ie, parents teach their children how to express and process their emotions appropriately and thus return to a stable emotional baseline state, aloowing the child to 'own' all emotional aspects of the self).
When this goes wrong (parents punish emotional expression, emotions are ignored, child is abused or maltreated with no corrective experiences, child is abandoned (the list goes on)) the developing child is unable to integrate these emotional states. Unable to be processed or integrated into the child's everyday experiences, these emotional states remain separate, undeveloped and unaccepted by the child.
In the case of severe or repeated abuses these emotional states are aroused and unprocessed, time and time again. They are disowned by the child (the child has not been taught the skills to cope with them) and yet they are repeatedly needed to function as a part of the child during abusive experiences. The only 'solution' to this dilemma is for the child assign them their own sense of identity and 'block out' all awareness of them (knowledge is a threat to emotional survival, as the child is unable to cope with the experiences or emotions). According to this theory that is roughly how DID comes about. Not as a result of 'splitting' or external possession or any other myriad of things that some people believe, but as a result of the failure of normal emotional states to integrate, due to abuse and / or long term emotional neglect.
But there is that continuum: The emotional states can fail to integrate without the need for them to assume a fully independent self-identity. This sounds to me what might have happened for you? The emotional states remain separate and unintegrated, but you don't experience the loss of time or identity states that are typical of dissociative identity disorder. According to the theory of structural dissociation severe abuse is not a prerequisite of dissociative disorders. The emotional states can remain dissociated and unintegrated as a result of something as 'simple' as a parent who punishes the expression of anger, or is emotionally absent from the child.

What do you think?

Hm. Luce that is interesting.
IFS, looks at "parts" as not always existing because of trauma as well. The more extreme a part becomes, such as in DID, where the dissociative barrier can be great, is usually resulting because of trauma; BUT parts that all people have can be out of harmony because of relational experiences in childhood, etc.

Here is a link to some idea behind IFS:
http://www.selfleadership.org/node/7285

IFS quoted:
"The IFS Model views a person as containing an ecology of relatively discrete minds, each of which has valuable qualities and each of which is designed for, and wants to play a valuable role. These minds, or parts, are forced out of their valuable roles, however, by life experiences that reorganize the system in unhealthy ways ....What circumstances force these parts into extreme and sometimes destructive roles? Trauma is one factor, but more often it is a person's family of origin values and interactional patterns that create internal polarizations, which escalate over time and are played out in other relationships."

IFS holds that there is a Self that is calm, mindful, and peaceful. By getting your parts in harmony, you free the Self. Schwartz (the creator of IFS) uses an orchestra as example, where something sounds beautiful when everything works together.

It sounds as if this theory of structural dissociation has some elements similar to IFS thinking. It is good to see science moving to better understand the occurrence of DID and dissociation as well as alternative methods for treating.

[peaches100]

Hi Tollhouse,

Thanks for responding. With regard to remembering my traumas, I don't remember all of it. With at least 2 major memories (one of them being my SA), I can remember what happened only in chunks. When i recall the experience with my perpetrator, i'll recall things we did up to a point, but the rest will be completely blank, as though the memory of it has been chopped completely away. I do remember some things about my childhood, but a great deal of it i can't recall. Other than a few memories here and there, I recall very little of my life before the age of 10.

I also wonder if there are some traumas that are affecting me that i just cannot remember. I say this because there are times when i can feel some young part of me inside that is filled with terrible pain almost to the point of being hysterical. However, while i can feel the discomfort in my body, i have no idea why the pain is there or what it's about because mentally, i am not thinking about anything. These are some of the things that make me continue to wonder about whether i may have DID.

Tollhouse said,

There is also something called an inner child and regression. This is not DID. Many believe everyone has an inner child that can behave, act, feel, etc as child when a person is regressed. Regression occurs in therapy.

Yes. I guess that's one thing that adds to my confusion. Maybe what I'm describing is simply an inner child part of self that's pretty common among people. Maybe therapy is causing me to regress and just feel like a child?? It's a good point, and i don't know the answer. Maybe it is this and not DID.

But, in regards to your T.....are you the person who's T does Internal Family Systems therapy? If so, then it is common to use "parts" lingo, because IFS actually believes that everyone has parts, but DID is extreme.

So, it would be common for someone in IFS therapy to say "a part of me wants to hurt myself, but a part does not." But, the person does not have to be DID.

Yes, my t does IFS, among other things.

Thank you for your informative answer. It makes sense.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by white_iris

Tollhouse, I liked your responce and I agree with what you said..

Peaches, only a qualified therapist can diagnose DID, but some T's do some inner child work. I would think that the more work you do in therapy, the more clear it will be what your dissociation degree is.

For us, it was an insider coming out and identifying herself and after a couple of sessions with her, our T put alot of pieces together, "interviewed" me and we began the journey of working with insiders and all that is involved with that.

I hope that you will not let the questions get in the way of your healing journey and let things evolve as they do not forcing anything or having any real kind of mind set that you are either "this or that".....in time that will become clear. IMO, the work that goes into healing is more important than the diagnosis.

Yes, hopefully things will become clearer in time. I know that it's not necessary to have a diagnosis in order to heal, but I'm the type of person that wants definite answers to things. . .i guess in this case, i may have to live with uncertainty.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by complic8d

((((peaches))) Wow! I feel like I could have written what you just did. After reading the reply asking about IFS therapy, which is what I am doing with my t, I did a search and found your posts on surrendering. I am right in that same spot, how do I nurture my inner child when I didn't receive it, how do I get that from t and how much?.... just about everything you posted. I am very confused about how to do this work and that never ending aching need that is there all the time. I don't even think I am making sense, but I am feeling like there is someone who can finally understand.
I also have dissociative problems that are along the scale somewhere, and I did receive a DID dx after my last 2 hospitalizations although we're not sure about that. I guess I don't really care what the actual dx is, just what to do to help me.
I am really interested in discussing this therapy with you, we seem to have so many of the same issues. I get confused with all the "parts" stuff too.
I'm sorry if I am rambling, I just feel I can relate so much.
Please take care of yourself, and pm me if you want, I really think we can understand each other.

Hi Complic8d,

Wow! It sure does sound like we have alot of similarities! I'd also like to discuss this further. I'll PM you in a few days, once i get some of my thoughts together. Or, PM me if you'd like!

[MissCharlotte]

Hi all,
Interesting conversation of how to look at something from different perspectives and "languages."
Luce said:

but rather a result of failing to integrate

I recall early on in therapy that T said I was "left unintegrated." At the time I had no idea what he was talking about.

Several months ago I said to T, "Clearly there is something more than depression going on with me." (As that was always my official dx!) He sort of nodded and I said, "Well is this a dissociative disorder?" T looked reflective for a moment and then said, "That sounds so scary. People used to say repression." And we moved on to something else. It simply wasn't important for me to have the "official" dx. Oh yeah--he once mentioned complex ptsd so I knew where we were headed and through reading I have come to realize I am somewhere on the spectrum -- a different point--to be honest with you all--on any given day. So I don't think the state of the union (LOL) is static. I think it's a dynamic condition that changes from moment to moment.

Thank you for the opportunity to work this through. It was helpful.



But Peaches, if it's important to you, then you should pursue it, from the angle of someone whose work comes from that lens. Best.

Hi Peaches,

There is something called co-consciousness, whcih may relate to what you are describing. I used to have some links to info about this, but I can only find this one at the moment: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/8089/multi2.html

I spent time researching this because of my own experiences. When I am under great emotional stress I will sometimes experience a change in consciousness. I can feel it coming on, my brain seems to spin inside my skull, my eyes don't want to stay open, and if I make them I can't see properly. Sometimes I will feel like I don't understand English. I usually find some way to pull out of these experiences because they are very frightening (standing up and moving around, or forcing myself to read something often works). If I don't do that however, I will find myself becoming 'younger'. My posture, body language and speech, even my thoughts will no longer be my own, but the me I usually am is aware of all of this, and is watching from somewhere in the back of my head. There are several ages of younger me, each with a different feeling tone. The youngest seems to be preverbal. Two are boys. Once one of them is in the foreground, I can usually regain control by putting whoever it is to sleep.

I do everything possible to avoid these switches, and I seldom talk about them. I am not even sure I have said anything to my current therapist about it. Sometimes I am curious to know what these kids (that's what I call them ' 'my kids') have to say, but the whole thing is so scary and feels so absolutely out of control...so I don't go there.

Hope this helps...

Oh...I have no memory of trauma that seems significant enough to have created this...but then who knows really what causes what?

[peaches100]

Hi Luce,

Thanks for your very informative post! My t has never talked to me about structural dissociation before, but in discussing my problem with dissociation and my emotions, my t has mentioned some of the same things you did, including this:

human beings are born with a fragmented set of emotional states (angry, sad, content etc). In the course of typical development (with appropriate parenting) they learn to integrate these emotional states and form a single cohesive sense of self. (ie, parents teach their children how to express and process their emotions appropriately and thus return to a stable emotional baseline state, aloowing the child to 'own' all emotional aspects of the self).

When this goes wrong (parents punish emotional expression, emotions are ignored, child is abused or maltreated with no corrective experiences, child is abandoned (the list goes on)) the developing child is unable to integrate these emotional states. Unable to be processed or integrated into the child's everyday experiences, these emotional states remain separate, undeveloped and unaccepted by the child.

My t has pretty much let me know that is the cause of my issues. My t says my problem is that i was neglected emotionally by my parents and they failed to nurture me enough and provide guidance and help me aquire the skills and experiences i needed in order to grow up emotionally healthy. My SA by my neighbor is an issue for me also, and i think is tied in with my dissociation too, but it's probably a secondary issue.

Yes, i think what you say below applies to my situation:

But there is that continuum: The emotional states can fail to integrate without the need for them to assume a fully independent self-identity. This sounds to me what might have happened for you? The emotional states remain separate and unintegrated, but you don't experience the loss of time or identity states that are typical of dissociative identity disorder. According to the theory of structural dissociation severe abuse is not a prerequisite of dissociative disorders. The emotional states can remain dissociated and unintegrated as a result of something as 'simple' as a parent who punishes the expression of anger, or is emotionally absent from the child.

Thanks again for helping me understand this.

luce, thanks for your very helpful post. you are a wealth of wisdom.

Originally Posted by Luce

In the case of severe or repeated abuses these emotional states are aroused and unprocessed, time and time again. They are disowned by the child (the child has not been taught the skills to cope with them) and yet they are repeatedly needed to function as a part of the child during abusive experiences. The only 'solution' to this dilemma is for the child assign them their own sense of identity and 'block out' all awareness of them (knowledge is a threat to emotional survival, as the child is unable to cope with the experiences or emotions).

is this the same as repressing one's emotions? i've been wondering what the difference is between repression and dissociation of emotion. i don't have any loss of time or memories but sometimes i have emotions come up that i had no idea i felt about an earlier event in life.