He doesn't deny I dissociate. Quite obviously. But before I started coming to him I was in multiple hospitals, some of which diagnosed me with DDNOS and some of which diagnosed me with DID.

After our third session, I asked him about the diagnosis, being worried about having something like that and hoping he received discharge papers. He hadn't. He told me "it was impossible that I had any type of dissociate disorder and that it was okay".

Okay fast forward four years. My therapist has major transference issues. Is constantly wanting to "care for me". Ignores cries for help because he wants to believe I'm "okay". We work through this. Meanwhile the cries for help are mostly over the fact that I get very "sick" at times and I don't think he'll believe me.

If I go too much into detail about this "sick" then I get "sick" all over again and so I can't give much information. It's not a physical "sick". It's just voices inside of my head start to take completely over my mind and make it impossible for me to function.

I've called crisis with no recollection of doing so. Received a follow up call and had no idea what they were talking about. I came to in the middle of a wooded area, hanging onto a tree for dear life, with my therapist standing next to me. He says that I took off and ran from him. Carved horrible sentences in my arms without remembering anything. And other things like this.

I mean I'm definitely not saying that my therapist isn't worried. Because I know that he is. But he's not a trauma specialist and he's still denying this. He won't even help me see a trauma specialist. And I'm doing terrible and have been for many months now and he keeps saying "what can stop this".

Proper help. And I've asked numerous times. But I think it's him having to take care of me that he won't allow me to see anyone else? He says it's my insurance, but I don't believe that for a second. Firstly because for four years they've (my team) has been saying "we'll get you another therapist when you need one". And now when I need one they can't. Secondly other clients of his have easily (with the very same insurance) seen other therapists. Heck actually in the very beginning I saw another therapist with him. Because I had an eating disorder and he didn't specialize. And thirdly my insurance company would easily cave with a doc to doc if they told them "pay for a therapist" or "pay for 15 more inpatient stays" it's up to you. Because that's exactly where I'm headed.

Is there some polite way to say "LISTEN TO ME. I'm seriously about to go off the deep end here and you're denying the very existence of why." I don't even want a "proper diagnosis". I would actually much rather not have it, because of the stigma associated with it. I just want him to accept and treat. Because the last thing I need is my therapist denying an entire entity existing in my head that I feel I have to keep silent from him. He's my therapist. Keeping it silent from say my parents is different. But it's getting harder each and every day to keep it from anyone, let alone him.

[Elysium]

I hear your frustration.

It must be very difficult to work with a T who needs to care for you in such a way that it does not allow him to validate your experiences or even listen to you effectively.

Is there any way that you could take the reigns and start doing more leg work to find yourself a new T that does specialize in Trauma? It seems to me, that for one reason or another, your T is not able to assist you in moving towards healing, and if I am hearing what your saying, it sounds as if you feel stuck?

It might be time to get out your insurance booklet or do some computer searches in your area for T's who specialize in what you need. Then you could call them and see if they take your insurance and if they do you could do a meet and greet with them and discuss your situation.

That is of course if you are to the point that you would be ready to start moving on from your current T. A T relationship can be difficult to move on from and if your T is as co-dependent as he sounds then he could try and sabotage a healthy termination.

[Irine]

Same here used to be with my now previous T. Well - Do you see any other way than leaving that stupid therapist?

[disguise123]

can i ask why do you not want to leave him? Im having a hard time understanding. Sorry im not trying to be rude, i would like to help

[Hunny]

((((((LydiaB))))))

Thinking of you and hoping for some 'good' resolution for you.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by LydiaB

He doesn't deny I dissociate. Quite obviously. But before I started coming to him I was in multiple hospitals, some of which diagnosed me with DDNOS and some of which diagnosed me with DID.

After our third session, I asked him about the diagnosis, being worried about having something like that and hoping he received discharge papers. He hadn't. He told me "it was impossible that I had any type of dissociate disorder and that it was okay".

Okay fast forward four years. My therapist has major transference issues. Is constantly wanting to "care for me". Ignores cries for help because he wants to believe I'm "okay". We work through this. Meanwhile the cries for help are mostly over the fact that I get very "sick" at times and I don't think he'll believe me.

If I go too much into detail about this "sick" then I get "sick" all over again and so I can't give much information. It's not a physical "sick". It's just voices inside of my head start to take completely over my mind and make it impossible for me to function.

I've called crisis with no recollection of doing so. Received a follow up call and had no idea what they were talking about. I came to in the middle of a wooded area, hanging onto a tree for dear life, with my therapist standing next to me. He says that I took off and ran from him. Carved horrible sentences in my arms without remembering anything. And other things like this.

I mean I'm definitely not saying that my therapist isn't worried. Because I know that he is. But he's not a trauma specialist and he's still denying this. He won't even help me see a trauma specialist. And I'm doing terrible and have been for many months now and he keeps saying "what can stop this".

Proper help. And I've asked numerous times. But I think it's him having to take care of me that he won't allow me to see anyone else? He says it's my insurance, but I don't believe that for a second. Firstly because for four years they've (my team) has been saying "we'll get you another therapist when you need one". And now when I need one they can't. Secondly other clients of his have easily (with the very same insurance) seen other therapists. Heck actually in the very beginning I saw another therapist with him. Because I had an eating disorder and he didn't specialize. And thirdly my insurance company would easily cave with a doc to doc if they told them "pay for a therapist" or "pay for 15 more inpatient stays" it's up to you. Because that's exactly where I'm headed.

Is there some polite way to say "LISTEN TO ME. I'm seriously about to go off the deep end here and you're denying the very existence of why." I don't even want a "proper diagnosis". I would actually much rather not have it, because of the stigma associated with it. I just want him to accept and treat. Because the last thing I need is my therapist denying an entire entity existing in my head that I feel I have to keep silent from him. He's my therapist. Keeping it silent from say my parents is different. But it's getting harder each and every day to keep it from anyone, let alone him.

if this was me in this situation I would bypass the therapist.

I would first contact the insurance company and have them send me their handbook or pamplet that tells all about the insurance plan I was on including what treatment providers are included in this insurance plan.

after recieving the pamplet/booklet abot the insurance plan and which treatment providers this plan utilizes I would call those treatment providers one at a time to see which ones have openigs and which ones have waiting lists. those with wating lists I would be placing myself on them. theres no charge in the USA for being put on waiting lists and then deciding not to go with that provider.

Those that have openings for new clients I would be setting intake appointments so that I could meet with someone, discuss the important factors such as costs, and what types of problems they treat, and give them a hypothetical situation that I deal with to find out how they handle such problems. If I liked their bedside manner and information I recieve at intake I would schedule a few appointments to see how things go. if after a few appointments I dont like how things are going I would pull out the insurance plan again and contact another treatment provider.

I would do this process until I find someone that "fits" me and my problems.

Here in america adults who are in treatment decide who they want to see. sometimes they are limited by which treatment providers accept which type of insurance, their own finances and the type of problems they have. some adults are also limited if they have been court ordered or have a court appointed guardian making their health decisions for them.

But its not the place of the treatment providers that say you can or cant see anyone else. In america you have the right to seek treatment and the right to decline treatment and the right to change treatment providers at your own digression.

Originally Posted by rapidcycla

can i ask why do you not want to leave him? Im having a hard time understanding. Sorry im not trying to be rude, i would like to help

(and everyone else who asked)

Maybe I should have added this. But I thought it would confuse people.

I haven't left him yet because he is part of an ACT team. If you don't know what it is... here is a link http://www.actassociation.org/actModel/if I leave him I leave a lot of services outside of him. I have to currently get my medications delivered daily to me. I would not receive that outside of them. I have a lot of physical issues related to my mental healthy (narcolepsy and endocrine disorders) that I need a psychiatric nurse for. I would loose her. I would loose groups. I would go from three ICMS to one normal case manager. I would loose 24 hour assistance. And all this together is what's kept me in the community. Otherwise I would be in hospital after hospital like prior to going to them.

It's really an unfair situation that I cannot choose my therapist, because not everyone works well with everyone. He pulled me through rough times in the beginning, but now I've outgrown him and nobody seems to care about that.

Parts of me have considered leaving the team, getting a trauma therapist and seeing where that goes, but I also have to consider that if I try and leave the team that I may be involuntarily committed. And quite honestly I probably wouldn't fight it. I have fought those far too many times and lost. Sometimes even my defender takes their side. Infact I have NEVER won a 302 case unless the doctor backed down, ONCE.

I have talked to my team leader and my psychiatrist about getting another therapist. One got upset I questioned my therapist's ability and the other was excited but now says insurance won't cover both ACT and an outside therapist.

NOT EVERYONE in America has their decision of practitioners. I do not. I am owned by a mental health system that sorely underestimates my intelligence.

[disguise123]

Ok this situation is difficult.
But given the things u have described
How did ur T explain them?
And based off these situations it seems poor practiCe that they wont allow you a second opinion, even within the team

[krisakira]

find a T that DOES believe in DID, because some still have stuff stuck up their arses and wont believe it, thinking its "made up" like they thought in the 70s and stuff. what a bunch of bs. get a T who understands it. otherwise you will never be able to work on your DD or DID whatever you have.

Edit:
sorry. i have read that it would be difficult getting another T.... so i am not sure of what you can do at this point. sorry

Originally Posted by rapidcycla

Ok this situation is difficult.
But given the things u have described
How did ur T explain them?
And based off these situations it seems poor practiCe that they wont allow you a second opinion, even within the team

This is what he says for those types of situations. "There is a spectrum of dissociation on one end you are completely mindful on the other you have dissociative identity disorder. You fit on that spectrum but you're not at the other end. DID is very rare".

I got really confused and left it alone because doesn't everyone fit on that spectrum??? I don't want to "force" something on him that's he's not educated about. Or he's not comfortable with.

The night before I got really desperate and said to him "you're one of those therapists that don't believe in this ****, aren't you?". He said "I do, in extreme circumstances". I asked him "will you just treat whatever it is and stop labeling stuff and then maybe we won't have a problem". He said fine. But nothing has changed. We have another patient in at the office who has DID, who is really severe. She's in a trauma inpatient right now. You can often find her unable to control who takes over her and who doesn't and in one conversation you may talk to 15 different alters. THAT is DID to him. Not what I have, not what most of us on this board suffer with. He's not even a trauma specialist and he thinks he can make calls like this... it's so frustrating...

[disguise123]

Can u ask for a trauma specialist to be added to ur care?
I dont know how to help u. I dont know tthe system your dealing with well enough.
Im sorry.

[Irine]

sorry to hear that

Originally Posted by rapidcycla

Can u ask for a trauma specialist to be added to ur care?
I dont know how to help u. I dont know tthe system your dealing with well enough.
Im sorry.

It's okay rapid you don't have to know how to help me. I'm just venting more or less. I'm sorry if this left you feeling helpless. But I hope that you trust that I always follow my own heart and find my way out of many trials and tribulations

ladymacabeth- I'm really glad you found your way away from this...

[(JD)]

Dissociation is defined as a disruption in the usually integrative functions of consciousness, memory, identity and/or perception (DSM-IV-TR, page 519).

The very nature of dissociation means you are NOT fully mindful.

I understand your reluctance to leaving the T and the team...that's big.

However, I also understand the reasonings behind why a T won't refer when they are knowingly in over their head. I won't go into them here.

Unless the T has agreed/admitted that T is seeking further education in trauma so as to better help you, it would be best for healing to find someone who is trained and understands trauma and dissociation. It's ok if your T doesn't know everything, but T must be working at learning all T can to help you, otherwise it's unethical for them to keep you on as a patient..imo.

...what is the DX your T has given you? If it's contrary to DID, then that would help clarify T's thinking...

Until the T actually experiences two or more personalities, T cannot embrace DID...but if your T doesn't "believe in it" that's a huge problem to begin with.

Now... if you insist on staying with the T...then the sessions will probably work around the individual issues you are experiencing, hoping to help you gain more "remembrance" of things you don't now recall. Some Ts who accept that DID exists still refuse to treat any individual part separately, but deals only with the main person/patient. It can work.

Find out exactly where you and your T stand. What is the dx and what is the treatment plan?

[disguise123]

thinking of you today
Xx

Originally Posted by (JD)

The very nature of dissociation means you are NOT fully mindful.

I understand your reluctance to leaving the T and the team...that's big.

However, I also understand the reasonings behind why a T won't refer when they are knowingly in over their head. I won't go into them here.

Unless the T has agreed/admitted that T is seeking further education in trauma so as to better help you, it would be best for healing to find someone who is trained and understands trauma and dissociation. It's ok if your T doesn't know everything, but T must be working at learning all T can to help you, otherwise it's unethical for them to keep you on as a patient..imo.

...what is the DX your T has given you? If it's contrary to DID, then that would help clarify T's thinking...

Until the T actually experiences two or more personalities, T cannot embrace DID...but if your T doesn't "believe in it" that's a huge problem to begin with.

Now... if you insist on staying with the T...then the sessions will probably work around the individual issues you are experiencing, hoping to help you gain more "remembrance" of things you don't now recall. Some Ts who accept that DID exists still refuse to treat any individual part separately, but deals only with the main person/patient. It can work.

Find out exactly where you and your T stand. What is the dx and what is the treatment plan?

I am diagnosed with C-PTSD. Along with everything that would fall under it. OCD,(that comes and goes) Eating disorders (that come and go, not currently here), social anxiety (that comes and goes), generalized anxiety (that's always present). MDD (that comes and goes). Although they are not main diagnosis and fall under my PTSD.

On wednesday I went in and was completely honest with my therapist. I told him in a really gentle way that I felt he was playing "caretaker" and that I didn't need it at the moment. I needed support.

I started with giving him a situation of a person in my life who tries to caretake over me and then an example of someone who just supports me. He says in return "Care taking is more about control and support isn't"

I said "Right". Then I went on to say "Sometimes I feel that you try to play caretaker in my life". He responds with "Well only when you're in a really rough spot and I have no choice". (For example forcing me to take my daily meds because I'm too depressed). And I returned with "Yes but sometimes you do it for no good reason. Like the time you told me I wasn't allowed to babysit someone's cat, because you didn't want me to. I was not in danger then and I knew what was best for me. You should have trusted that". Of course that's just one example. There are many others. I followed with "I am not completely naive to the fact that the majority of therapists in general are rescuers. And my care may seem like it needs rescuing. But I really need you to remain neutral".

He didn't say anything. And then he sighed and agreed that it was not beneficial to protect me. Which is why I am concerned he denies the diagnosis in the first place. Because he doesn't want to believe I could be "that sick". Or he doesn't want to turn me over to another therapist, because he would no longer have control over my treatment. Then I said to him "would it be appropriate for me to see another therapist?" He said "if you would like to". And I just had to ask "Does my insurance cover both?". "Yes, why wouldn't it". I got really solemn and said "Because you told me it wouldn't". He answers "Right, well it does".

I wanted to ask "Why would you lie to me?" But I already knew the answer and so did he. However this doesn't mean I will get a new therapist anytime soon on his account. I will still have to fight a good bit to receive it.

Originally Posted by rapidcycla

thinking of you today
Xx

Thanks Rapid

[(JD)]

You're right when you include many of those dx's under the umbrella of PTSD. (I won't debate the "C" element as it isn't in the DSM. If you wish to discuss this with me in PM, I can.) PTSD is an anxiety disorder and can have an element of dissociation.

Not sure you read it but until your therapist sees and interacts with at least two "parts" of you, he cannot give you the dx of DID, so it may not be that he doesn't "believe" in it. Also, he appears to be very careful in not leading you into a diagnosis, or causing you to believe something that might not be so...not just with the DID. I see he is not arguing with you at all, and I think that's wise, for it's not the place of T to argue when a patient is sure of what they think they heard or know. Part of you might need a caretaker, had you considered this? Your T is responding to all of you at different times, whether he knows it or not, or whether he's shared it with you or not. If you're ready, have this discussion. But be prepared for some non-answer answers if your T is being really cautious to not upset you or your system.

You have dissociative times and it's possible that what you think you heard the T say may be from the memory of another part of you and not actually your true memory. It's difficult at best at times to work with dissociative patients. He has to be increasingly aware of not promoting or pushing or making suggestions about diagnosis or such...because you might be very susceptible to such, more than you realize. That's being ethical, to me.

Now that you and your T have this in the open, I personally think you should stay with this T unless something truly unethical occurs.

Originally Posted by (JD)

You're right when you include many of those dx's under the umbrella of PTSD. (I won't debate the "C" element as it isn't in the DSM. If you wish to discuss this with me in PM, I can.) PTSD is an anxiety disorder and can have an element of dissociation.

Not sure you read it but until your therapist sees and interacts with at least two "parts" of you, he cannot give you the dx of DID, so it may not be that he doesn't "believe" in it. Also, he appears to be very careful in not leading you into a diagnosis, or causing you to believe something that might not be so...not just with the DID. I see he is not arguing with you at all, and I think that's wise, for it's not the place of T to argue when a patient is sure of what they think they heard or know. Part of you might need a caretaker, had you considered this? Your T is responding to all of you at different times, whether he knows it or not, or whether he's shared it with you or not. If you're ready, have this discussion. But be prepared for some non-answer answers if your T is being really cautious to not upset you or your system.

You have dissociative times and it's possible that what you think you heard the T say may be from the memory of another part of you and not actually your true memory. It's difficult at best at times to work with dissociative patients. He has to be increasingly aware of not promoting or pushing or making suggestions about diagnosis or such...because you might be very susceptible to such, more than you realize. That's being ethical, to me.

Now that you and your T have this in the open, I personally think you should stay with this T unless something truly unethical occurs.

I really, really appreciate this reply. It was honest and straightforward. And it made me feel a little less like running away from him. Hopefully things will work themselves out eventually and I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. Expressing my concerns to him.

As far as the "caretaker". I've been questioning this much lately, because I thought that a "caretaker" would just come naturally, but I don't feel like I have one, as things just bounce around like crazy.

[Alurea]

I am curious which is more important the diagnosis or being understood? Being understood is such a big deal to me cause it sometimes feels like noone does. Is there a way you can talk to your T and you know how sometimes they will say everything back to you that you just said and then you can correct him if something is off? That sometimes helps me feel understood. Or drawing a picture of what its like in my head. But also, I think sometimes its important to just try to trust. Your T is the one who can see the big picture when we can't and maybe he knows something you don't just yet.

Originally Posted by Alurea

I am curious which is more important the diagnosis or being understood? Being understood is such a big deal to me cause it sometimes feels like noone does. Is there a way you can talk to your T and you know how sometimes they will say everything back to you that you just said and then you can correct him if something is off? That sometimes helps me feel understood. Or drawing a picture of what its like in my head. But also, I think sometimes its important to just try to trust. Your T is the one who can see the big picture when we can't and maybe he knows something you don't just yet.

Exactly the diagnosis doesn't matter to me. I've even said that to him "you don't have to label anything, just listen. Please". But then he still labeled. "Well it's ego states". "you dissociate but you don't have dissociative disorder" "it's just your mood". And everytime he labels it I get upset. But I just kept talking, because like you said I just want to be heard. At one point he said "do you think you have DID?" I said "please STOP labeling, diagnosis do not matter". I mainly don't care. I would rather NOT have the diagnosis, because there is such crappy judgments about it. Labeling it "ego states" doesn't really give it a voice either. Everyone has ego states. It completely discounts how I'm feeling. I mean maybe it's DDNOS, maybe it's DID. I don't know, I don't care? I just want it resolved and it won't happen with him like that.

However updated last week he did stick up for me when my psychiatrist tried to put me on antipsychotics for the voices. I didn't want to mention them to him, because I knew what his solution would be. Anti psychotics don't help DD. It took an hour of me sobbing in front of both of them that I didn't want to be on them, until he asked me to leave and later told me he let my psychiatrist know that the voices were not psychosis, but rather dissociative and that anti psychotics wouldn't help. He knows I don't like to be on meds I don't have to be.

[Hunny]

LydiaB

Sometimes the road has a light and then other times it's like walking along in the dark.

Do the groups you are in (I think you mentioned before) seem to help?

[Fox]

In my own opinion I strongly recommend that you start looking for a new T on your own. Just give them your insurance info and they'll tell you if they accept that insurance or not. Talk to your insurance company and let them know you're looking for a new mental health provider for counseling. I hope this helps you some, you should not be having these issues on top of your own mental health. You're an amazing strong individual who deserves the best that is offered.

[Elysium]

I am in agreement with Fox, sweetie!!

You are right in that the label itself doesn't matter. I told my T, who had little experience working with pts with multiples, that she could call it "pizza" if she wanted to, but it wouldn't change the fact that I still had the experiences and perceptions that I had. She encouraged me and assisted me to find a T who specialized in DD disorders because she wasn't skilled enough to work with DID, in her opinion.

The thing is, I feel there's a difference between diagnosing and labeling. To me, labeling is more of a black cloud that follows you around where as a diagnosis is simply stating a name for what afflicts you. In my opinion, a T who refuses to diagnose for not wanting to label, yet still continues to label (by labeling your signs/symptoms as "ego states") is not helping but hindering in the fact that they are INVALIDATING your experiences, whether they intend to or not, by refusing to allow you to be comfortable in your own skin.

You say that the diagnosis doesn't matter to you, but you also state that you get frustrated when your T just calls it ego states. That to me sounds like you are feeling like your T is not hearing you and is, in a way, disregarding YOU by doing so.

When I became co-conscious, before diagnosis, I asked my T to help me find someone who specialized in DDs so I could get an interview and appropriate diagnostic tests to rule it out/in. I don't think she liked it, but she assisted me and I eventually went to work with a T who does specialize in DID. Now, when I work with her, we do not spend our sessions focusing on the label or the diagnosis, in fact we hardly even mention it. We do, however, spend a lot of time on accepting my experiences and perceptions for what they are and focusing on how to work with them as opposed to working against them and how to have the most comfortable and healthy life I can with them.

I know I haven't said much about your post but I have been following....and a common theme I hear, if I read between the lines of what you write, is that you do not feel validated by your T and you do not feel heard. These two things are very important to have in a T/client relationship.

Remember, you own your therapy. You do not need your current Ts permission to seek out a second opinion or to see a T who specializes in DDs. And you don't need your insurance companies permission either. It is your right, and your responsibility to take the reigns and seek out what you need. It is perfectly okay to research Ts and have an appt with one or two to see if they may be a better fit for you and to see if they may take your insurance.

I don't think your current T is bad, but I do think he is harming you nonetheless, however unintentional as it may be.

Thank you Fox, that's sweet.

Elysium- You are very correct when you say I feel invalidated. I most definitely do. For him to say my experiences are just average is basically like saying "just get over it, everyone else does it just fine". I just want help. I want someone to explain how to "work with them". I want to connect to them. I don't want to leave them behind, because for as long as I've done that I've been very ill. Mostly I want to be understood. I don't want to feel so alone anymore. I want someone to tell me I am not crazy. Someone to accept them, because I can barely accept them myself. And by accept them I mean accept me. "Us". (I don't like using a plural wording as it seems very foreign and makes me feel too attached.)_ Like you said, "call it pizza". Whatever the name, I don't care, just help me. I am slowly dying.