Dysfunctional Intergration

A thread about sudden major life stressors/changes and the effects they have on the integration process. There was another sudden external stressor years ago that caused a lot of set backs and problems. The situation has many different factors involved. Trying to avoid the previous pitfalls and hopefully prevent present external stressors to cause further damage to recent internal progress.

I have no clue what I just wrote.
Just go with the title forget the rest. To be revisited...
In the meantime the floor is open for all to discuss, interpret how ever you all choose!
All thoughts, experiences, opinions, PoVs, etc...are more than welcome

I have read that even after integration is complete life major stressors or trauma can cause a temporary dis-integration.
We thought we were integrated (at least partially). 'Thought' is the key word here. This year we experienced great stress and BAM, we disintegrated everywhere. And that disintegration revealed that our 'integration' was a farce anyway.
C'est la vie.

in my location this term (dysfunctional integration) does not have anything to do with DID or dissociative disorders. in my location this term is the same as saying a person has a sensory processing disorder...

a person with this doesnt have the ability to process in their brain what their senses are telling them. think of it like having a lamp whos wiring has a short in it so that sometimes the light turns on and other times it doesnt.

people with dysfunctional integration in my location sometimes they can tell that they are touching a table, smelling an orange, seeing the color blue, hearing a bell ring. but then other times they are not physically capable of knowing what it feels like to touch, smell , hear, distinguish things they are seeing.

in my location people who have this problem are diagnosed with autism, and various learning disabilities, SID (sensory integration dysfunction) and other physical health problems where their brains do not have the ability to integrate feelings/ emotions, senses....

in the dissociative sense if you are talking about after a person has integrated something happens that results in their dissociating to the extreme of having alters again.... in my location this is not called dysfunctional integration. its called having DID.

in my location any documented with area mental health agency cases of where this happened its been discovered that though total integration was thought to have been achieved it was not. that there were alters that were not known about that after the others integrated were able to be noticed and near the surface.

I only know of one case in my location where a person dissociated to the extreme of being alters after integration. the person went though such extreme trauma that they will be in a rehab/ mental facility for many years to come yet.

when you think about it, an adults brain is much more capable of handling traumas that causes a child under 5 to dissociate to the point where the child mind becomes DID. in order for an adult mind to do this the extreme trauma has to be literally physically and mentally life threatening. this kind of extreme trauma results in things like organ failures, coma's long term hospitalizations both physically and mentally.

to wrap a mind around this concept imagine your worst fear, now imagine that worst fear actually coming to life causing both physical damage and mental damage to you to the point of where you fear for your life, you are physically and mentally in danger to which there is no escape.

in a childs mind its easy to see a child thinking and experiencing their trauma this way but an adult brain doesnt have this capability any more it has stored knowledge to understand reason use logic so it takes even more extreme to cause an adult mind to dissociate to this point of dissociating into alters after they have already been integrated.

tv movies and books makes it seem so simple and easy to become DID again after integration... the character goes through a situation and they are suddenly alters again but in reality it doesnt work that way.. theres much more involved in it then that.

That's what happened before, basically. "Thought" we were intergrated....A few,of us were co-concious for quite a good spell and then Bam! It all started crumbling. And the part who was dominant on the outside at that time "thought" she was whole or something.. It was a bad time. After a,while I just detached from everything even my own conciousness... and then from what I have learned things just got worse,and worse and completely out of control. Then one day I wake up..with no idea that my last menories were from 5 YRS BEFORE!! But I didn't care. That was the best day! ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡... Now we're here. Now... and I am the front part...but I hardly feel at all like myself...I don't like it. I have access to a lot more info now...but I feel weak and icky..not the me part I was...so I'm worried that this portion integration and some vague Co con/ aware of a few other's is not right?? I don't think it should feel worse?? The more parts merge the stronger we should get??...And then the outbursts are getting really bad!! Everything is out of sync and feels like there is mass panic spreading!! I am having trouble holding the flood gates closed...but I can not allow myself to fade again!! And HQ taking the helm??!! I can not let that happen!! It makes sense that she thinks she should be front atm.. Chaos and Ruin are her comfort zone, but I can't unleash her on him..She and I have never agreed when it came to him...and I don't want to have to live in this terror and ick... but the part that I need most with me is now mostly merged with me..but it is empty feeling...and the the little bit that was left splinter off???? I guess??!! So whatever she is holding in..well she's regressed into a state of sheer terror and helplessness...it's why I can't sleep...I keep having these clips of memories? Or Nightmares?..they don't belong here. I'm sorry I shouldn't have written this...it sounds nuts!! But I am not telling stories or having issues with reality *except facing losing him I refuse that reality fully. I know I must sound like I'm in the outer limits here!! But, it's just the only way I can explain it??..does that make sense to anyone else??!!. Major upheaval and night mares and insomnia and complete physical and mental exhaustion..yeah, that's how I end up writing posts like this but it was time consuming so I'm not erasing it. It may contain something that is nessecary??!!!...but greatly obscured and impared. X (

Location schmokation! If you use the contextual cues of the original post it is readily apparent that the poster is not discussing any aspect of sensory integration issues and is instead describing her own experience.

Outer limits? Nope. Yeah it makes sense to me. We aint never had no times where we was thinkin oh yeah this is full integration boo yah! Nah. We had lots of what we call mash ups where some of us turn into one of us then we had a few who done went n integrate into the whole before. Never fails neither if we get to mashin up or integratin shtf like big time. Way i think on it is cuz its change. Dont know how you n yours roll but with us lots of times its easier to stick with the crap we knowin then crap we aint knowin even when the crap we been knowin is rotten n the unknown maybe lots better. Thats still reason to get all bent outta shape for us. We knowin what we know, you know. Plus to that stuff come packin a punch. Maybe one person inside do one thing real good like bein a angry one, but then them others who not doin that real good well its sure gonna send them into a tailspin. Go n add onto it that we get that to bout how one person deal with somethin one way but another one or maybe even more then one well they aint wantin to deal with that the same way n stressin how that gonna work done never help with keepin up smooth sailin. We argue bout that sometimes with that husband guy we got. That makes stuff more complicated once it go past how we gotta deal with us now we gotta deal with outside folk to and holy mess batman.

Sorry you n sleep aint bondin real good right about now. Hard enough to be dealin with all you got on your plate w/o addin nightmares/memories/icks to the mix. Hopin to for ya that you doin fine what with missin five years. Been there. Done that. Weirds me out. Soundin tho like you able to keep your cool bout that so good on ya. For real. I get to how one minute you one person then when ya open them eyes you not the same after all that time done past. Aint always easiest thing on earth to do to settle in your skin when you part you n part them.

Yeah so im tallkin lots n i quit it now but hopin you doin alright.

~Gwen~

yes Luse, I know you dont like it that I make sure my posts have the clarification of in my location, in my posts. but I would rather keep it in then to have the upsets not having it in my posts caused a few years back with the membership as a whole. now with it in people know that my posts reflect only what goes on with in me, my own city, my own towns, my own states and in some situations where things are different around the world what my own country goes by.

contextual clue yes I understood what the poster was talking about but in order for posters to know and understand my posts I do go that extra mile of giving the definitions that I and my own location uses. again a few years back many members asked me to take this extra step of including definitions when my location is different so that they could understand my posts better.

I stand by my post and the clarifying information in it that I included. it just happens that the original poster and I are talking about the same thing just calling it different things and I explained why ...because my location does not call it by the same name. their location calls it dysfunctional integration my location goes by the term dissociation and defines dysfunctional integration something else.

I am sorry if my making this clarification in my post has upset and offended you and anyone in your system.

Amanda- I had no clue dysfunctional integration was an actual term for anything(lol) and I am dxd with DID but our experience with this by DSM standards (which may I point out are only the standard in what?? 2 countries or something??) Whatever, guess in America OSDD would be the more accurate dx...but I ain't no doc..but a doc dxd us so whatda I kno NE wayz...oh yea, I kno I'm a freakin 14 yr old livin in a odd ash bod..umm not I kno like sum ish bout peeps inside n umm..idk ish that like happens outside wen, I'm out least..n stuff otha peeps tell me...n I kno r mum SUX!! N..umm that I get blamed 4 like evrythin! ! I mean like by my fam, n ish..n I kno ish no1 else does bout r past..umm not what like hapnd wen we wuz real little or nothin..but umm.like the ish thoz scumbagz did 2me in the bin...OMG! I'm saying ish I ain't spost 2...oops! GG- 14

I can relate to your post. After I started trying to get treatment for my dissociative disorder a bunch of normal life stressors happened to me. My Dad died, my Grandmother died, my Uncles died, my career was not working out, I had to move a lot, I lost most of my significant others for one reason or another, I could not find a mental health professional who new about dissociative disorders, etc. Eventually in 2001 I had a total mental breakdown and I have not recovered from it.

I do not know if all this caused me to have new alters, aka made the dissociative disorder worse but it made my mental health issues worse completely. Any one with a dissociative disorder is going to have borderline personality disorder, PTSD, anxiety, depression, Panic attacks, and many of us have substance abuse issues to self medicate, as part of their diagnosis. We have a lot of abnormal stressors to deal with so I am sure that for people with DID any new stressors could cause disintegration.

the DSM 5 is actually used in many locations outside the USA, not just 2. there are many americans in other countries that sometimes need help by people who know and understand the american way of diagnosing and treating their problems.

yes here in america there really is that word. you can google it and find lots of information on what dysfunctional integration is in all the different countries around the world

the rest of your post is not very understandable. suggestion maybe you can talk with everyone who is with you, and explain to them swearing and name calling makes it very hard for others to understand what you are trying to say in your post.

Woah! Sorry about that Amanda
That derailed before the train even left the station!
But I think I know what triggered that outburst..so that's a good sign...most clear understanding I've had in days actually!..which is what I am trying to say is that in the face of many combined new traumatic experiences and high stress of old triggers..our system has become dysfunctional. As in, regressing/eroding...to the point that I'm worried we are going to get hospitalized. And thank you L.P. for putting some of the thoughts,and feelings that have been cropping up into better wording for me. No we have never been fully intergrated, but there have been seemingly cohesive "mash ups" like you said... which I thought may be what the beginnings of integration would feel like. But now I see that what occurred in the past was crappy for me, but from ive learned,not total and utter chaos, like this time. And L.P. you gave a new perspective on why I feel weaker now. You're right 5yrs passing was shocking. But I didn't really grasp that when I first came back to, so to speak. I felt like myself. As in exactly who I was before. And even more so I guess. I felt like the best most competent me. But we were not Co conscious when I came back we were just functional. So now I'm starting to wonder, besides the external factors triggering parts to the extreme do to the levels of fear involved...I'm starting to wonder if maybe it's not the parts that have integrated or started to..causing me to feel weak/sick/icky not me, but facing the gravity of the time I lost and the damage that occurred to us and our marriage and our life during that time??
I actually think I am severely depressed! I know what that looks like because HJ has chronic severe depression...always has as far as my memory serves...but I'VE never felt it first hand I have never been depressed. Not truly deeply...but I'm starting to maybe think that is what I am feeling???
Please God No!! I don't like this...I want to go back. I don't want you to feel pain, heartbreak, despair....I am a protector. And I was always able to do my job because I was numb to things like that. S**T! HQ was right...I am different and I don't know how to be who I was before... CHANGE SUX!!!

Am I truly no longer fit to lead??...as in hold front??? This can't be happening....none of this can be..I have had no problem dealing with who we were ever in our lives...disagreements sure, but accepting what was NEVER!..it just was!! That was fine, normal
..This...this is not...and I don't understand it..and that makes me not very eager to accept it either. :sad:

"Zulus don't get lost in the woods." Leon Russell

cool, i can totally relay to the dysfunctional integration part of feeling and seeing or hearing...
my therapist mentioned sensory processing disorder before so perhaps i dont dissociate but just have a bad processing processors

edit::
Its funny though because I was actually in advanced classes in school (while I was in school) one would think that I would of had to be in special education but perhaps I do dissociate and am capable of handling things in other senses...
Sometimes I wish I could go back so that I could be smart again... Everyone says I'm smart and used to call me a genius but I certainly don't feel that way... Never have

Is it possible for Alters to have sensory processing disorder while others dont? or to have Autism, or even retardation and other things while others don't?

From my life experience, E.S., anything is possible when it come it dissociative issues! This past year we had neuropsych testing done and the results were all over the map....which I guess is to be expected being that each test administered would have probably been completed by whatever part (s) were or felt like they were most suited for? I guess?...I have been told by many people including some mental health workers that I display symptoms of Aspberger's ***AND YES I KNOW AMANDA!! THAT THE DSM5 has renamed it "High functioning Autism"*** I think that was a mistake personally because Aspberger's pre-dates Autism, to my knowledge..if I'm remembering correctly?... regardless, we still need to get neuro imaging done and a sleep study and then review testing, but the initial results in the developmental /learning area only confirmed ADHD...but that's because it was the first dx we were given when we were young. So without any family, school, or other early childhood information, I think it is hard to assess learning/developmental disorders that may have been overlooked in school years because as we grow we learn to adapt to our deficiencies...unless, they are on the extreme low functioning end of the spectrum or are part of a serious/larger neuro disorder/disease such as Huntington's or Down Syndrome or untreated Lyme's or something...I'm just spit balling ideas here..I have no real expertise to be discussing...so excuse me if I'm wildly off base here -J

It can be hard to tease it apart because dissociation is by its very nature similar to sensory processing disorder in some ways. in both aspects of experience (sensory perception - sound, sight, touch, sensation, etc) are not effectively processed, experienced or integrated. Somatoform symptoms are common in dissociative disorders. We have lots - we don't process, feel or experience pain from injury, there are times when visual or aural input is blocked or dissociated from our awareness (so we effectively cannot see or hear certain things), and we have lots of both positive and negative body symptoms (ie sometimes we feel pain that isn't there, other times we do not feel our body at all).
So yeah, perhaps you have sensory processing disorder or perhaps you have dissociative somatoform symptoms. Hard to tell without a full diagnostic work up.

LITW, I think it is common for things to go along smoothly for a while with ANPs coping adequately in a restricted kind of lifestyle (it was that way with us, anyway)... but then extra stressors come up that push the ANPs beyond their current coping ability and things start to decompensate. That is exactly what happened with us this year. A bullying work colleague triggered us left right and centre and we fell apart, started losing time and freaking out all over the place. An old friend with DID got back in contact with us this year as that is exactly what happened to her too. In her case person who reminded her of an abuser moved in to her apartment block and her system decompensated too. So after a period of relative calm and stability we both have ended up back in therapy and doing more system work to get ourselves back up to functioning standard again. We're not there yet.

We too were diagnosed with ADHD, although as an adult (whilst not disclosing any trauma history or dissociative issues ) so our t is organizing for a full psych diagnostic re-evaluation to be done. There are no psychiatrists experienced with DID in my little city so she is flying in a specialist from another city to assess us. (Seems like overkill, if you ask me!)

I want to add about the decompensation - when the ANPs are getting on with normal life, trying to keep an even keel and just get on with things, if triggers come up that trigger out the EPs (eg a situation or person reminds them of abuse) then the whole intrusion / avoidance cycle between flashbacks and aversion gets started again. That's the decompensation part - ANPs trying to get on with normal life but they get floored by traumatic intrusions from the EPs. It can seriously interfere with their ability to cope with life. It floors ya.

Yup. Totally get how you come to n its all wtf? Then you gotta go n what live some life some other she who aint me done set in place? Like woah i didnt pick n choose this so how come i gotta be the one to live it? I get flat out irate over that type thing. Hadta deal with not only what other folks done went n did to us but stuff we done did to ourselves? Like addin insult to injury imho. I cant compplain tho. Veda worse bout dwellin on what coulda been then me. Its a real prob for a couple of us.

Wanna talk a sec bout autism. We got a few who got a ppdd-nos dx. It was rough gettin that dx. Sincerely. Lots of autism symptoms mirror abuse or neglect type symptoms. We ended up at UofM once o try get all that figured out n they put us in pdd-nos camp. Thing is tho some of us wouldnt never get that kinda dx what with how we act/think/feel/react/whatevers. One of us maybe got bad sensory overload stuff n another well lights sounds motion dont bug em at all. Go figure.

I shoulda pull a quote box thing for this:

"It can seriously interfere with their ability to cope with life. It floors ya."

^qft. sincerely.

~Gwen~

Yes it is possible for alters to have sensory processing disorder that said since alters with DID are there from before the age of 5 your treatment providers and schools would have documentation to the affect that you had trouble as a child in things like having problems in the school activities that require you and your alters to use your senses, elementary schools around the world routinely test or document and then ask parents to take the children to ENT (ears, nose, thoat) and other specialists when the student is unable to do things that require using the senses like eyes, ears nose, mouth, being able to touch and distinguish testures...

my suggestion is contact your schools and obrain copies of your public school records.

also if you have this problem your last psych eval would have documented it due to psych evaluations test for things like this built into the psych eval testing. example a basic psych eval question is how do you feel about having to take this test, do you know why you are here, and other basic questions on the test would chow whether you and your alters are using your senses.

suggestion contact the doctor that did your psych eval last january. they can show you where on the exam you and your alters were using your senses correctly and where you have disabilities in your senses.

another suggestion re read your past posts. look for feelings and sensory words if you can find them then you and your alters do not have sensory processing disorder (if you did you and your alters would not be able to post whether you are feeling happy sad and other emotions. what your meals tastes like, what you are hearing, what you smell....

Im guessing since your posts very clearly show you and your alters can use and process your senses you can relax (eyes, ears nose mouth, touch you can even type your posts here that takes being able to process your fingers touching the letters in the correct order...)

thanks.. the psych wrote in the paper that i have a high functioning cognitive impairment , or disorder... i cant remember..
whatever it means... but i just figured it was the adhd he was talking about...

next time i see my case manager im going to try to get her to help me get those files so we can review them and stuff...
i have a lot of trouble dealing with people alone...

I have to respectfully disagree with this.

ES, I strongly suggest you do not rule out any possibility based on whether or not you have used particular words in your past posts. Sensory processing disorders and sensory integration issues involve not an absence of taste / sight / sound / sensation etc, but the ineffective processing and interpretation of sensory perceptions. And it affects people in a multitude of different ways. Some people are exquisitely sensitive to sound, so that noises of a normal volume are perceived as being intolerably loud, while others might be under or over responsive to touch sensations. Those who are under responsive seek and crave touch sensations (such as dirt, slime, pressure, heat, cold etc) and others avoid them (won't touch something sticky, can't stand labels in clothing etc).

But people who have sensory processing disorder will absolutely be able to use words to describe their sensory experiences.

i don't like reading my old posts

its scary.. just like i dont like reading that journal i wrote in the beginning of the year...

my therapist says i dont remember them things for a reason and maybe its a bad idea to go back and read things right now until i can learn better coping skills...

my therapist mentioned sensory processing disorder because of the ways i am with sounds... (and maybe being touched, but who likes to be touched when you were sexually abused...)

It is definitely a good idea to avoid reading back over things... the dissociation IS there for a reason. We can now sometimes read back over things our others have written, and sometimes not. If it is not in any alter's best interests to read a particular thing it simply won't be able to happen, no matter how hard they (sometimes I) try. We involuntarily and uncontrollably repel ourselves away from the not-to-be-known material or we automatically switch. I used my knowledge of this to video us: I set the video then read aloud from things I knew I could not read. When watching back over the videos I was able to see exactly what cue words or topics made me switch. It was useful information and I will likely use that technique in therapy when we return.

The other thing I wanted to say is that sensory processing things can definitely also be a part of dissociation. For instance sometimes our senses of vision and hearing are blocked. I can suddenly be unable to interpret speech or make any sense of what I am seeing. It isn't like I am blind - I still have vision. I am not seeing blackness. But I am unable to make any sense of the visual sensory input - that is to say I cannot process the sensory information. In me it is the same process as the physical inability to read what another has written. Visual and aural information is simply blocked from being processed by my brain. In me this is a sensory processing symptom that is caused by dissociation.
The other sensory processing issue we have with sound is that when we are in a triggered state we are hyper-reactive to sounds. Every sound is amplified many times over and is like a knife or attack. This hyper-reactiveness to sound is really common in PTSD.

I am not saying there is a total absence of the senses what I am saying is that here in america this is a medical condition where there is a physical problem with the brain and the nerves associated with the senses. because of this there is a certain way people with sensory processing disorder words things, a certain way they walk, talk, write, interpret what their senses are trying to tell them.

Im also talking from personal experience. I have MS (Multiple Sclerosis) because of this I have sensory processing disorder. short version my nerves and how my brain interprets what my senses are telling my brain is a bit off. I can touch the keyboard and type but I can not tell you in physical feelings words how the keys feel on my fingertips. logically I know the keys are hard substance and the letters on my keyboard are raised. but physically and mentally I feel no difference between touching my keyboard and touching a table top. I can say my table is smooth and dark brown varnished knotty pine. but I can not tell you how it actually physically feels. it all feels the same because my brain does not process the sense of touch. this is the point I was getting at. with sensory processing disorder there is a certain way the brain processes the information.

Also since sensory processing disorder here in america is a medical health problem (nerve connection problems, brain neurons and receptors and other physical problems associated with this) it does show up on medical tests like nerve conductivity tests. ENT tests and others.

anyone who thinks they may have this problem can talk with their medical doctors and their medical doctors will be able to help get you set up for any physical health tests needed to diagnose the problem.

Elevated .. in a post in this thread you said...
thanks.. the psych wrote in the paper that i have a high functioning cognitive impairment , or disorder... i cant remember..
whatever it means... but i just figured it was the adhd he was talking about...

next time i see my case manager im going to try to get her to help me get those files so we can review them and stuff...
i have a lot of trouble dealing with people alone...

here in my location high functioning cognitive impairment is just another way of saying the person is starting to show a.... sudden decline in memory and skills that they didnt have a problem with before........it comes with things like

Alzheimer, and early onset Alzheimer which is a problem that elderly people get when their brains physical functions decline. there are tests for this that can tell you whether you have this or not. the tests measure things like brain waves, how much fluid your brain has between the receptors and neurons, whether the receptors and neurons in your brain are working correctly. the tests are called MRI, MRA, CAT Scans, if you have this problem there is limited treatment but no cure. eventually you will need someone to care for you because as you age your functions will continue to decline.

a sudden decline like this can also be found in normal situations like college students who do a lot of researching and study to the points where their bodies start declining and taking on the problems that they are reading/ studying about.

it can also be found in childhood. schools routinely test a childs memory and skills as do medical doctors when they are doing the routine yearly physicals, and physicals for school and sports. this kind of high functioning cognitive impairment does not change better or worse. your doctors and teachers and school records can tell you whether they documented that they found your brain wasnt working right and you went to a doctor for the brain scans/ tests for all the childhood problems that this comes with like cancers, mental retardation, cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy and other childhood brain damage problems.