Curious about others experiences working with your therapist on identity splits. I've read a lot of post here, but strangely, despite that so many here have DID, no one really talks about the details of their experiences.

I'm starting to wonder about how my therapist works and what the other ways are that other therapists do.

For example, I have this introject/part that takes control over me when it wants to, it's really scary. But yesterday, it really hurt me. It felt like it was harming me except there was no manifestation of it. It was all in my mind. But i was sucked into the role of that part while the real me was observing and I couldn't escape. I was trapped while the other part was going about doing things that made things worse for me. And I had a lot of sui thoughts over this time.

if you had this issue and brought it to your therapist-what would your therapist do and say? Could you call him for help when you are stuck like this?

Is it strange to write about this stuff here? I have posted in the past about these types of things, and no one responds or has any answers. Excuse me if i have to delete this later.

[TishaBuv]

Mine is a CBT, so what he always says is "What were you thinking about your thinking? What were you telling yourself with your faulty thinking?"

[TrailRunner14]

My counselor, I believe, would ask me what that part of me feels. What am I feeling in other parts of my body? How do I feel about that part, and what do the other parts of me feel about that part.

It usually starts out with fear and anxiousness because we don't understand that part. I look for compassion and understanding. Curiousness. Why.

My counselor encourages me to open up to that part. I try to journal, unedited, what I hear and what comes to mind.

I have experienced what you are describing without the sui thoughts. It's more panic and brokenness.

He does answer emails that I send to a certain extent. When I need to voice what is going on, validate it, I can send it to him and we talk about it the next time we meet. It helps to be able to do that. It feels like I've given what's going on to a safe place until I can deal with it.

Kind of rambled, but I hope that was an answer to what you asked.

Not a CBT fan, but wouldn't you already know what you were thinking and that it is faulty? (not criticizing, just learning).

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Mine is a CBT, so what he always says is "What were you thinking about your thinking? What were you telling yourself with your faulty thinking?"

I think that's the difference, that's explains it...what seems to be missing. We talk about all that I feel, but we don't necessarily talk about the conflicting parts, as you describe, it as they relate to/feel about one another.

Well I talk about it to some extent, but my therapist doesn't question as they are separate aspects of my self. That's helpful to know. I'll have to try that with my therapist next time. Might be helpful to verbalize the different states of mind and how they feel about one another rather than just emphasize the one I feel distressed about. Which is what I think I'm doing instead.

Wish I could go to my therapist for safety when this happens. I feel alone in it all. I'm afraid he'll just think I want him to rescue me. He used to do that.

Originally Posted by TrailRunner14

My counselor, I believe, would ask me what that part of me feels. What am I feeling in other parts of my body? How do I feel about that part, and what do the other parts of me feel about that part.

It usually starts out with fear and anxiousness because we don't understand that part. I look for compassion and understanding. Curiousness. Why.

My counselor encourages me to open up to that part. I try to journal, unedited, what I hear and what comes to mind.

I have experienced what you are describing without the sui thoughts. It's more panic and brokenness.

He does answer emails that I send to a certain extent. When I need to voice what is going on, validate it, I can send it to him and we talk about it the next time we meet. It helps to be able to do that. It feels like I've given what's going on to a safe place until I can deal with it.

Kind of rambled, but I hope that was an answer to what you asked.

[Luce]

Hi, Skies, I am glad you are writing about this here. I would like to have more discussions about this kind of stuff - I think it is helpful not only for self but also for others on the forum.
I am not certain about what you are describing, but from what I can gather it sounds similar to some stuff we go through from time to time. We have a group of alters quite separate from us who punish a group of other inner ones internally... and it feels to me, when this happens, that I am aware of it in some way but quite unable to influence any of what is going on.
'In the moment' I have never been able to do anything or act in any way to change it at all, but I have told my therapist about it afterwards. My therapist and I are quite new to each other and although she is very good I don't believe she has had a great deal of experience with DID, so I don't know that she would know of any strategies to approach it. I can't even recall how she responded when I told her about it... I think it may have been glossed over as it was part of a larger situation.

But, *I* know a lot about DID (theory, personal experience etc) and here's what I would do... recognize that those parts are doing a job for a reason. They wouldn't do it if it didn't, at some point in time, serve some necessary purpose. They were likely created in childhood too, so for all their might and bluster they are - at the heart of it - simply children that are doing their best to stay alive in the best way they know how.
With introjects they can sometimes punish other internal ones to 'keep them in line' in order to avoid further abuse (from outside people). Finding out more about the parts that do it might lead you to more insight and understanding about how to find a solution.
We used to have one particular one that had a sui plan that she would go through when certain things triggered it. It used to terrify us once we gained a little co-concsiousness with her because she had true intent on carrying it out and we fully believed she was going to do it when she got on her triggered cycle. But then over time we realized it was never allowed to happen - she would go right up to the cliff, so to speak, and then she would be switched out. And over time, over many many times of this happening, we began to trust that it was safe - that we could just let her go through what she had to do, fully intending to sui, and that once she had done what she had to do she would go and everything would be okay. (I think I have forgotten the reason why I am writing all this!!)
Ummmm... I don't know. I reckon tell your therapist when you are not in this state and look at it together. Because it serves a need. However obscure. If you can figure out the need you may figure out what is needed to deal with it when it happens. Who punishes? Why? Often behind the anger there is simply a frightened kid who is trying to survive.
Our sui one who used to do all that stuff, we were really surprised to see her handwriting in our essays this week. We didn't know she helped us like this. She used to do all that stuff we said above and now she helps us writes essays when we are overwhelmed. That's pretty cool, eh?

[Luce]

Oh, yeah, so my ex therapist would have asked questions about it like I wonder who is doing this, and why might they be doing it, and does this alter remind you of anyone, when do you first become aware of this one, can you talk to them, what happens if you ask inside now? does anyone else know who this one might be? can anyone else talk to them? what happens if you try to talk to that one inside right now? can they hear you?

So basically all about communication nd finding out more about this part and what it needs / wants / believes / feels / remembers etc.

[finding_my_way]

how my therapy works is that i usually talk about what has come up symptom wise, trigger wise, alter wise, etc. if i'm talking about an alter (they don't fully come out or talk to the therapist), it's usually about the situations they came around in, how they felt, thought, acted, etc.

with more difficult alters, i have learned that it's best to wait until the alter is not in control as much or the situation isn't as intense and then will talk to them. they don't really usually respond, but i will talk anyway. i will talk to them and let them know that what they did (if it was negative/harmful) was not really okay and explain why and try to get them to see a different way of thinking about it or alternative ways and how it could be more effective. that was one thing the therapist has had me do too and reminds me that it is important with each alter to talk to them about their specific things to help them and me with healing.

it can take a long time because a lot of mine can be quiet for a while, but i did recently have an introject or else just a confused alter that i believe was partly influenced by another one in the background. they became increasingly difficult with harmful images, feelings, thoughts, urges, etc. and took control in that way. it made it really hard for me to deal with. finally, i was able to figure out why they were that way, what purpose it served, and explain why it was not okay and tried to get their perspective to change..that was hard because they didn't appear to have the ability to, but i was able to get things sorted out eventually so that they went quiet again and don't cause the issues they did.

i talked through it all with the therapist even though it was very difficult to. the therapist was very understanding. even when i find it hard to talk about the others, the therapist lets me and never responds in a way that makes me/us feel like it's unsafe or not okay to. it really has helped because i have judged myself so much for some things, and being able to talk so open has been something that has been needed.

Thanks for all the information Luce. I'll try what you suggested. I'm going to tell my therapist we need to work on this more.

So this weekend, I was talking to a new therapist who I contacted when my therapist and I were in a big rupture (she was on vacation then and got back to me). We talked on the phone and she didn't seem scary as most female therapists do. Well, following that call, ever since she contacted me to set up an appointment, this introject comes out and feels like it's controlling me, and preventing me from seeing this therapist and it sent her an email to basically go away.

While the real me is left helpless. It felt like this introject was trying to "kill me off", and i don't know if that is symbolic, like when you're a child, the part takes over and other part ceases to exist temporarily. But I don't know why I felt so horrible. IT made me feel I literally needed to kill myself and die.

You said they try to keep us safe, but I have one who torments me too, Adn I i don't know which one this is. Is this one trying to keep me safe, or is the sadistic one trying to keep me with my cureent therapist because it sees how much pain it is causing me? That's the one that laughs at m.

I really don't understnad your other thread Luce, I don't understand about parts that dont' form out of trauma, doing homework and stuff. I guess I don't have the type of dissociation you have, mine are all associated with trauma and terror feelings.

It's hard to bring this up to him, I wonder if he will just say-if you want to go to another t herapist, why talk to me? Then be mean to me.

I'm so confused and so hurting.

Because it serves a need. However obscure. If you can figure out the need you may figure out what is needed to deal with it when it happens. Who punishes? Why? Often behind the anger there is simply a frightened kid who is trying to survive.

What's the difference between an introject and an alter?

Thanks for explaining that...that's how it's going with me too.
My therapist and I always talked about them after they came out, and after a while, mine went quiet too. So I thought they were gone or integrated. That's another reason it was so distressful when this one came out.

it can take a long time because a lot of mine can be quiet for a while, but i did recently have an introject or else just a confused alter that i believe was partly influenced by another one in the background. they became increasingly difficult with harmful images, feelings, thoughts, urges, etc. and took control in that way. it made it really hard for me to deal with. finally, i was able to figure out why they were that way, what purpose it served, and explain why it was not okay and tried to get their perspective to change..that was hard because they didn't appear to have the ability to, but i was able to get things sorted out eventually so that they went quiet again and don't cause the issues they did.

[elevatedsoul]

my understanding is that an introject is an alter created from the outside to take on the role of an abuser... i would be interested more in having a greater understanding of it as well... maybe introjects aren't just abusers..?

http://www.igdid.com/h145-what-are-introjects

[L.P.]

Several in my system do not trust therapists so we do not have one at present. I am not certain how past therapists would have responded or dealt with us. I have never in my life experience spoken to one.

From my perspective (which could very much be technically incorrect as I dismiss medical/mental health professionals) an introject is someone within the system who either arrives due to programming from an abuser, or a system member who for whatever reason takes on qualities of an abuser to 'attack' one or more other system members or the body.

Lily, for example, is a fifteen year old sociopath in my system. I would consider her an introject as she takes on not only distinct speech patters which directly resemble the odd speech patterns of one of our abusers, but she also has similar behavior patterns, and the only time Lily seems happy in life is when she is lashing out at others in our system and does so in ways reminiscent of this abuser. Lily is generally fond of this abuser holds anyone in contempt who does not sing the praises of this particular abuser.

Gwen, for another example, is a slider in my system. I would not have considered her an introject, despite the fact that there was a time in life where she actively sought to harm others in my system. Gwen split off from another system member (Edie). Edie was a protector who broke. Edie became aware that there were others in her body and she hated them for leaving her alone to endure what she did. She wanted to hurt them but could not, so Gwen came to be and acted on the rage Edie held. In her own way, Gwen came to be in order to protect Edie, so Edie could continue to protect the others.

During their times, both Lily and Gwen did serious damage. Both hurtful, but different intent and different ways of coming to be. That is the difference to me, between introject and other system member.

Amsterdam

Originally Posted by Skies

Curious about others experiences working with your therapist on identity splits. I've read a lot of post here, but strangely, despite that so many here have DID, no one really talks about the details of their experiences.

I'm starting to wonder about how my therapist works and what the other ways are that other therapists do.

For example, I have this introject/part that takes control over me when it wants to, it's really scary. But yesterday, it really hurt me. It felt like it was harming me except there was no manifestation of it. It was all in my mind. But i was sucked into the role of that part while the real me was observing and I couldn't escape. I was trapped while the other part was going about doing things that made things worse for me. And I had a lot of sui thoughts over this time.

if you had this issue and brought it to your therapist-what would your therapist do and say? Could you call him for help when you are stuck like this?

Is it strange to write about this stuff here? I have posted in the past about these types of things, and no one responds or has any answers. Excuse me if i have to delete this later.

Hi skies.....I do believe I have written about my experiences....but they seldom get replies because they are more of a report lacking any questions for responses. They just get read. Sometimes when they don't get responded to...it can make us feel ignored (?). I wouldn't worry about it though (as I tell myself that), I'd rather hear more details of experiences myself along with the therapy talk. It helps one to validate their situation when compared to others experiences because we go through denial still too to some point.

I'm not seeing a therapist because of the lack of decent insurance....but we do try to maintain a level of inner sanity.

To us, it takes a certain one to report our happenings (me) because we are very timid and shy with fear of judgement within and out....always embarrassing or offending an Other. We have deleted more posts then posted. Just a less then few Others get on here anymore every now and then. So please don't feel rejected or ignored....we here are so mixed up....we are just afraid of saying something stupid. Take care.

Originally Posted by elevatedsoul

my understanding is that an introject is an alter created from the outside to take on the role of an abuser... i would be interested more in having a greater understanding of it as well... maybe introjects aren't just abusers..?

What Are Introjects

thanks, that helps. I'm starting to see i don't know what all exists inside.

There is one that torments me, that seems to be my brother.

[finding_my_way]

Originally Posted by Skies

What's the difference between an introject and an alter?

Thanks for explaining that...that's how it's going with me too.
My therapist and I always talked about them after they came out, and after a while, mine went quiet too. So I thought they were gone or integrated. That's another reason it was so distressful when this one came out.

an introject is still an alter. from things i have read, they are thought of usually as being created to model an abuser in an attempt to either protect the abuser and/or system somehow or keep control over the system/certain members of it and/or keep the abuse a secret. there have been some confusing things i have read, so i'm not sure if it's always like that for every system. an introject of an abuser can be either how that abuser actually was or they can take on certain behaviors and/or things they said and be similar in those ways.

it is confusing to me because my therapist said that the recent one i struggled with was an introject, but it did not feel that way to me. they did cause harmful thoughts, images, etc. but it wasn't an intent to cause harm as opposed to one other one who enjoys/enjoyed scaring the whole system because it gave them a sense of control and power. they got very confused about things and thought that because of how something was for them/other parts that it was how it would be for others. i had to do a lot of talking to them in the process of figuring out what their purpose was.

i had one in the past that held me hostage inside and wanted to k*ll me. it was terrifying, and i never did figure out why that one was there. i had struggled for years with severe depression and urges/thoughts of harm, etc., but this particular time was different. it stopped me from being able to speak or move for several hours and tormented me inside telling me i had to end my life and it was the only way, etc. i hope to never encounter them again. i don't think i'd call them an introject either though and think they maybe were more a kind of protector of...something..though destroying me wouldn't have 'really' helped.

a lot of things are very difficult to figure out. and the fact that these are created in childhood by a child's mind is both sad and scary to me. i have no idea when a lot of my others came around, but i am trying to keep in mind that how things appear to me and how i think they should be usually is not the case. i have to keep an open mind and think of all these other options..like a detective of sorts trying to piece together this ongoing mystery.

[unaluna]

That was not my understanding of what an introject was. It was more like what the igdid page below referred to as "programming", but not exactly. I see introject as a well defined psychological term with a certain meaning; the way "programming" is used in this article is much more casual. I cant reconcile that flipflop between scientific and casual. That is, i cant find it convincing or accurate.

Im not convinced of kathy hoady's authority in this field. She may be sincere in her desire to help, but even that needs to be analyzed.

To me, the idea of an introject "meeting" the original abuser is ... why? I cant see it having the effect in the article. That seems like a fantasy to me, and its dangerous for a t to put it out there. Imo.

Originally Posted by finding_my_way

i had one in the past that held me hostage inside and wanted to k*ll me. it was terrifying, and i never did figure out why that one was there. i had struggled for years with severe depression and urges/thoughts of harm, etc., but this particular time was different. it stopped me from being able to speak or move for several hours and tormented me inside telling me i had to end my life and it was the only way, etc. i hope to never encounter them again. i don't think i'd call them an introject either though and think they maybe were more a kind of protector of...something..though destroying me wouldn't have 'really' helped.
.

That's similar to what I'm dealing with too. So what happened to it, as you say it was in the past?

That was not my understanding of what an introject was. It was more like what the igdid page below referred to as "programming", but not exactly. I see introject as a well defined psychological term with a certain meaning; the way "programming" is used in this article is much more casual. I cant reconcile that flipflop between scientific and casual. That is, i cant find it convincing or accurate.

I don't think this person is an authority either, but I make my conclusions based on all different schools of thought, vs. most who write about that stuff sort of fit it into the context of a single box. I use introjection a lot as a verb, but don't really have a clear definition in my mind of what it is when it's a noun. Are you thinking of 'identification with the aggressor" or similar concept?

I don't think any of this stuff is cut and dry at all. Regardless of what it is called, I was trying to see different approaches to working with this in therapy. Whatever it is, it's something split off from my self, that takes over and has a mind of it's own with it materializes, while keeping my real self hostage. When I first became aware of it, I felt it to be encapsulated into a little box in my chest. Then it came out and the only way to describe it as I felt 'possessed', literally, which is how I feel when it rises to the surface.

It antagonizes me, is sadistic, and tries to kill me or get me to kill myself. I thought it was my brother because he is a sadistic sociopath (I also have PTSD from him from an adult situation). Scary, very scary. It derailed me for 2 days this time, and I am really struggling.

I'm going to talk with my therapist about working more with the introjects (or whatever they are) becaues I am starting to realize this is behind a lot of different things, including depression, perhaps.

I'm not seeing a therapist because of the lack of decent insurance....but we do try to maintain a level of inner sanity.

Does it come out more when you are in therapy? Or is it always there in the background?
Sorry you cannot get help that you need.

Originally Posted by Skies

Does it come out more when you are in therapy? Or is it always there in the background?
Sorry you cannot get help that you need.

I'm totally not sure what you are asking.

[TrailRunner14]

There is a part of me that my counselor and I have talked about being an introject. It's image in my mind is a swirl of negative words and questions and it seems to come to me loudly when I am triggered and feel scared or if I'm in a situation that I have no one to talk to that understands. It also is loud when I'm working really hard to understand myself and what I've experienced. It make me feel stupid, alone and attempts to want to make me feel hopeless. That's a hard battle to fight against.

It is coming to my mind, reading the post here, that I wonder is it's the voices I thought in the moments in the past. At the times that other parts of me came to be, I wonder if that introject is a remnant of a part of me that was left there in the moment.

Sorry if that was too much. It just came to me and I wanted to share my thought.

[unaluna]

My first experience of experiencing the voice as a separate person came when i read "life without Ed" by jenny shafer, where Ed is what she calls her eating disorder. It was portrayed so accurately in the book - i.e., her Ed sounded SO MUCH like my mother and fathers voices in my head - that years later, when i started with current t, i dug out this book and brought it to him to read. Its been a while since i thought about this. I should probably refresh myself on it.

But basically, our work together has been to change my reaction to when he asks me, "and didnt that make you feel good?", like if i took a shower or went swimming or had fun with a friend. My old reaction was always, no, its scary, now im gonna hafta pay for it somehow. Its about letting me have good things.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by unaluna

My first experience of experiencing the voice as a separate person came when i read "life without Ed" by jenny shafer, where Ed is what she calls her eating disorder. It was portrayed so accurately in the book - i.e., her Ed sounded SO MUCH like my mother and fathers voices in my head - that years later, when i started with current t, i dug out this book and brought it to him to read. Its been a while since i thought about this. I should probably refresh myself on it.


But basically, our work together has been to change my reaction to when he asks me, "and didnt that make you feel good?", like if i took a shower or went swimming or had fun with a friend. My old reaction was always, no, its scary, now im gonna hafta pay for it somehow. Its about letting me have good things.

Agreed!!!

[kecanoe]

Originally Posted by Skies

Curious about others experiences working with your therapist on identity splits. I've read a lot of post here, but strangely, despite that so many here have DID, no one really talks about the details of their experiences.

I'm starting to wonder about how my therapist works and what the other ways are that other therapists do.

For example, I have this introject/part that takes control over me when it wants to, it's really scary. But yesterday, it really hurt me. It felt like it was harming me except there was no manifestation of it. It was all in my mind. But i was sucked into the role of that part while the real me was observing and I couldn't escape. I was trapped while the other part was going about doing things that made things worse for me. And I had a lot of sui thoughts over this time.

if you had this issue and brought it to your therapist-what would your therapist do and say? Could you call him for help when you are stuck like this?

Is it strange to write about this stuff here? I have posted in the past about these types of things, and no one responds or has any answers. Excuse me if i have to delete this later.

My ts would possibly call that a flashback-where I am feeling harmed but there is no actual harm. But I don't have introjects (at least as far as I know).

T1 would want me to get to understand the part that was doing the harm. What injury does she carry? What feelings does she carry? Who is she protecting? What kind of things upset her? What parts does she like? Who on the outside does she like? Those sorts of questions. Basically being curious not scared. I journal or talk to T. I have found that the parts that seemed mean are actually just doing their best to help me survive. They were vitally important at getting me through some stuff at some point. Understanding and appreciating those parts has helped.

T2 would want me to do grounding exercises. Depending on my situation, I might try eating something very sour, rubbing an icecube on my forearm, putting lotion on, concentrating on breathing, feeling the floor, petting my dog. Those sorts of things can help me stay present, which helps with the scary thoughts.

[finding_my_way]

Originally Posted by Skies

That's similar to what I'm dealing with too. So what happened to it, as you say it was in the past?

that particular part eventually over a few hours and then days seemed to disappear. i was going through a very stressful time in life and felt really hopeless and didn't think i would make it out in general, so that might have been the trigger for it. once that episode with them lessened, they kind of just went away. i don't know if it is for good or not as there are always times that variations of 'the end' comes up, but they aren't all the same part related to it which makes it more difficult to sort out.

i kind of had to also build up extra support through that time, and had people around me assuring me things would be okay, etc. though it's not easy to believe that when things are so chaotic and scary. i also just knew i'd gone through so much already that maybe, just maybe, i would make it through that too.

each part differs for me in how long they are around for, how intense they make things, if they come around once or multiple times, etc., so i have to deal with each one as they come up and find ways to get through it or else talk through it in therapy and hope to come to some kind of conclusion to resolve something.

it is important to find out the why behind them if you can because that then allows you to start coming up with plans of how to cope and help them, if possible.

[just2b]

Luce .... great post! I agree with you.

Mine therapist would take a grounding approach I think. She would say what is the benefit of having this part take over now? What is their role? Then would say does this part know they are an adult now with choices? Does the adult know she is this part also! There is one mind one body.

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Skies

I really don't understnad your other thread Luce, I don't understand about parts that dont' form out of trauma, doing homework and stuff. I guess I don't have the type of dissociation you have, mine are all associated with trauma and terror feelings.

Uh, I probably didn't explain it well, not that it matters. But one of the parts helping with the work was most definitely born out of trauma, thus my surprise discovering that she had been helping with the course. She was a previous tormentor, one who regularly destroyed all our stuff, severed our relationships and was hell bent on killing us all. She was our suicide gal whose only aim, when triggered, was to destroy and to kill (us, her, no matter).
And yet here we are, years later, and it turns out when I was unable to cope with the course work she stepped in and helped out. I knew whose writing it was but I had no idea why she would do that. Then my friend suggested asking her and I did, and I found out why.
So I guess my reason for posting that is to show that ones who torment and abuse us are - at the very heart of it - there to protect us as well. Even if that isn't evident from the torture and torment they both experience and put us through.
Twenty years ago this one routinely tried to kill us.
Now she helps out with frikkin essays.
Go figure...