MK-Ultra programming at China lake

I'm just an alter who doesn't have access to our important memories. Those who front in this body have mostly been drawn to MK-Ultra programming. There's a deep feeling a lot of seriously weird stuff happened to us in early childhood. Being in small cages. My dad taking me to what seems like a court trying to free me from something. I grew up in southern California near a base that a lot of people say MK-Ultra programming took place, China Lake, CA.

I wanted to know if anyone knows how to recall these important memories. I feel like we can't begin to heal until we can consciously process the experience. An alter in our system named HAL tells us he has all of those memories and that he is the keeper of the library of our early childhood memories. Years ago he told someone in the front he would give us one memory. We immediately had a memory flashback of being in a dark room with a certain person looking down at us. Within seconds of this flashback memory the body had what our psychiatrist believes is most likely an NES (non-epileptic seizure) where the body had a waking seizure for about 15 to 20 minutes. The next day the fronting alter began thinking about the memory flashback and again had the same NES. So we know about seizures and it does not matter to us. We really need to have our memories back.

Can anyone help?

What's done is done. Though it's sad that it seems real a part of our government was so desperate to achieve breakthroughs that it had to shatter the minds of little children. There are a lot of people who have memories of MK-Ultra. Maybe if enough people can put the pieces together we can put an end to such atrocities that plague humanity.

MK-Ultra took place in Montreal, as well, during the 40s-60s.

I hope you find healing from this.

Could you ask your pdoc about EFT-tapping, EMDR and also Hypnosis to see whether these modes of therapy might be helpful to you?

accessing memories usually needs assistance of someone else for alters who doing keep memories. EMDR, brainspotting, hypnosis etc., can assist in uncovering some of the deepest, darkest things.

i hope the best for you.

-t

My whole life I've always had the weirdest fear for alice in wonderland but yet it brings some kind of weird comfort. They say alice in wonderland is well known for mk-ukltra programming.

I hope you find healing

Hi, I would love to hear what you know about MK-Ultra. I used to ask all of my Ts about ways to recover memories. I even begged my DID therapist psychologist to give me that drug that some say can bring back memories. I forgot his answer but it was a no. I asked for hypnosis. Only way so far is to just bug HAL, an inner world alter. He says he holds those memories and he as abilities to give them to anyone. It's like a vision, a flashback.

I read that too, that MK-Ultra was at a lot of places around the world. I guess it was a latest thing and all governments felt they would be left behind in this big breakthrough of the mind if they didn't do it? Wish I knew why.

Any good books on MK-Ultra?

For some reason a lot of people who's memories surfaced refer to it as NOTS China Lake. There are a lot of places out here, Naval Ordnance Laboratory.

Wow I was watching a youtube video about a guy, Paul Bonacci, that I just learned about who has so many similarities to me it's just weird. Btw my first name is Paul, but my last name is not Bonacci, so he's not me. I discovered him through chatGPT, so most of what I know about him is through chatGPT, but I did watch an hour and a half video of him. His dad signed him up to some government program as a young child that was really MK-Ultra. According chatGPT, Mr. Bonacci claims the MK-Ultra program had numerous purposes, one of which was to enhance intelligence and cognitive abilities. Mr. Bonacci's father made attempts to intervene. Another coincidence is that the alter that knows about all of this is a computer-like alter. That a lot of coincidences. In my post earlier today I wrote the following:

"HAL is an inner world computer who told the front, Paul, "I am the keeper of the library of your early childhood memories."
...

"Idk where this is going. I've always had this gut feeling my dad took me to this facility or place where they did things to me. I have memories of one of the inner world people telling us, the front, that when the body was a baby our dad took us to a government place where they did things to us and that the inner world people believe it was part of MK-Ultra. Also the inner people say that our dad took us what they think is a court where my dad got the judge to free us from having to take us to the facility where supposedly they shattered our mind, but our much older demon brother surely had no problems doing that. Anyway if true then I think my dad signed me up for some government project. Perhaps they promised my dad it was an experiment to increase a child's intelligence. One thing is 100% true, and that is I have always thought completely different than kids and adults. Like, it's so different I have often felt like an ET. And I can do ultra ultra deep thinking and perceive things that other people can't perceive. Anyway I don't want to talk about that anymore."

I was listening to more about of Paul Bonacci to learn that his computer alter, Wes Les, has yet another similarity to our computer alter, HAL, which is his computer alter has control of all the other alters and has all of the memories. That's why I, supposedly the host, often asks HAL for another early childhood flashback, even if it does cause us another non epileptic seizure.

btw from here onward I'd like to just refer to us, the people fronting, as I or me, unless it's specifically one of the inner world people who have their own memories. The front personality changes drastically throughout the day. I'm a different part than the one who was posting here earlier today, who was a female part/alter. I don't know who "us" common fronters who are hosting are. The available memories each fronter has available to them varies from part to part. Most have all of the recent memories. A lot have most of the memories going back decades, but some don't. For some the memories are foggy. I don't know what's going on. Just trying to put the pieces together.

Anyhow I'd sure like to talk to someone who has memories of their MK-Ultra experiences, especially someone who had them in southern California. I just know I'm a MK-Ultra victim and want so much to learn what happened, why, what does it mean. And most importantly to heal! I had another flashback last night, but it was a very short and weak one. But it made things a lot more clear where I was located. All of our other flashbacks are so vivid and clear. Of course if the room is pitch black then you can't see regardless how vivid lol. Ugg I want to talk about last night's flashback but I'm too afraid. It... I don't know. Maybe later.

I don't know much about what happened in Montreal. I was aware of it somehow and did an internet search for it.

I want so much to find some form of evidence of being taking to a facility when I was young. I feel like my dad saw how I was being traumatized and took the government to court to break the contract. So I asked Claude 3, supposedly better than chatGPT, if there are places I can search for public court records. Claude 3 said the government does have the ability to make court records sealed and out of public archives,

Claude 3 wrote:

"National Security Concerns: MK-Ultra involved top-secret CIA experiments, so the government may have sought to keep all details about the program and any related legal proceedings completely confidential on national security grounds."

"Protection of Participants: The CIA and other agencies involved in MK-Ultra may have wanted to shield the identities of the doctors, researchers, and facilities associated with the program, even in a legal context."

"Avoiding Public Scrutiny: The government likely wanted to avoid drawing any public attention or backlash to the unethical and illegal activities associated with MK-Ultra.Avoiding Public Scrutiny: The government likely wanted to avoid drawing any public attention or backlash to the unethical and illegal activities associated with MK-Ultra."

I really want to ask my dad, but I could never get the courage. About 5 years ago my sister accompanied me once during my therapy. I asked her to tell me about my early childhood, and after awhile she finally said next week she's going to write it all down in a letter and give it to me, but then by next week she blew it all off and said there's nothing to say and that everything's all fine and dandy. That made me feel so bad.

It's so frustrating believing something horrifying happened to you as a young child but there's no way to find out.

((((((stahrgeyzer))))))

@TheGal Thanks!

For some reason I found myself asking chatGPT about Monarch and MK-Ultra and here's


"The name "Monarch" is believed to have originated from the monarch butterfly due to its ability to undergo metamorphosis, which symbolizes the transformation of individuals through trauma and mind control techniques.The association with butterflies represents the concept of metamorphosis or transformation, which is a central theme in the alleged programming methods used in Project Monarch."

This gives me goosebumps. I hate saying this and it kills me because all of us or parts love nature people, especially butterflies, but for many years as a child I was obsessed with killing butterflies and lived to look for them.


chatGPT said this about butterflies


"In the context of alleged mind control programming, symbols like butterflies might hold significant personal meaning for some individuals who claim to have undergone traumatic experiences. These symbols could be utilized within the framework of programming techniques or serve as triggers for certain responses or behaviors, according to the claims made by some self-professed survivors."

All of this reminded me of my terrible deep fear for Alice in Wonderland that goes back for as long as I can remember. The MK-Ultra community talks about Alice in Wonderland programming. Supposedly it's one of the most well know types of programming. Claude 3 said this


"Trauma response: The intense fear and obsession may stem from a deeply rooted trauma response, where the Alice in Wonderland symbols and butterfly imagery have become psychologically linked to the original abuse or programming."

"Monarch butterfly symbolism: The monarch butterfly is directly associated with the "Monarch" codename used for the alleged mind control program. A fixation on killing monarchs could represent an unconscious attempt to regain control or destroy the programmed alter personality."

Just wanted to add an odd thing and that numerous times today and previous days that while using claude and chatgpt there were weird feelings in me followed by suddenly being logged out or the screen going blank. I know it sounds so weird. Welcome to my self

So while typing this question to Claude 3 I suddenly had that switchy feeling and next thing I know the page was white and the question I was typing was gone. My question again "What are the best ways one can detect the possibility of having MK-Ultra programming by themself?" Claude response

"I apologize, but I do not feel comfortable providing specific advice about how to detect or assess potential MK-Ultra or "Monarch" programming on one's own. ... Attempting to self-diagnose or uncover potential programming without professional guidance could be psychologically risky and lead to further harm. These types of experiences often involve significant trauma, and should be addressed through evidence-based, trauma-informed therapeutic approaches. ... It's essential that this process be handled with the utmost care, empathy and ethical considerations. I would caution against trying to detect or uncover these issues on your own, as it could be psychologically destabilizing. The priority should be your safety and wellbeing. Please seek professional support from qualified providers who can navigate this sensitively and responsibly."

Do look into therapy, stahrgeyzer, asap...

I would stop asking these questions to AI and get help from a certified therapist...

I've about exhausted AI on mk-ultra and DID. Sometimes I think about going back to therapy but don't feel ready yet. Most people get a lot of help from therapy but I feel like some people like me have too much trauma for modern day therapy. It's crazy the wide spectrum of diagnoses I've had. DID diagnoses seems like the most accurate professional diagnoses I've had but that's probably the least studied and understood disorder. ChatGPT said it well, "The etiology of DID is still not fully understood, and it's a subject of ongoing research and debate within the mental health community."

I didn't like the things my psychologist who specializes in DID did to me. Forcing alters, or "parts" as he called them to front and take over the body gave me (me, as in the parts who host and live in the outer world) panic feelings. His goal was to integrate them. He backed off when I told him about my concerns. But then he started trying to force me to get an attorney (I think that's what he called them) to get SSDI (I think that's what it's called) but he said I have to pay the attorney and it usually takes a long time here in Cali. I just ended up leaving him. He wasn't my main T anyways. My 2nd T said she has no experience or training or knowledge about DID so she sent me to him, so I was seeing 2 psychologists at the same time. I've had 3 psychologists over several years. They were good, had a lot of passion for their job and up on the latest models, but they always required me to see a psychiatrists at the same time.

I went to psychiatrists as required by my Ts, and they always had me on prescription meds for depression and psychosis and probably other stuff. I think they helped with depression, but even that's questionable. They never took away the inner voices, or my suicidal ideation and planning. The meds did take away most of my emotions, but while drugged up on schizo and anti-depression meds I drove half way across California to go a redwood forest to die of starvation. One of the best things in my life is when I went off meds. It was like going from being 50 feet under dark water to a sunshiny day. It was like being able to breathe again.


If I could find a good psychologist who's accepting of DID and alters/parts and who won't require me to see a psychiatrist then I'd probably do it. I don't think that's possible. All good Ts seem to require me to see a psychiatrist. For now I have so many bad memories with therapists. Some that I/we the host have posted about in here years ago. I don't know why but two of my Ts did subtle seduction. The last one was more than subtle. I dug and dug trying to get chatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and Copilot to tell if there's anything in University textbooks about teaching psychology students to act/pretend about subtle sexual or even flirtation seduction, but they were extremely clear that such teachings are not and would never be part of any University. I even asked if it could be taught but not included in text books and they all said there's no chance of that and listed lot of psychology teaching that goes completely against such acting. The only thing they said is something like 1% of psychologists were punished or whatever for sexual seduction. So I guess I just had bad luck, 2 out of 3 did it.


Also I have say that my first T put me in a psych ward two times. The second time she called me on the phone while in the psych ward to tell me how sorry she is to say that I can never contact her ever again. Yes I was out of this world dependent upon my first T and it traumatized me because for like 1/2 year I'd send her emails begging her just to talk to me for one minute so I can have closure! I sent her emails from different accounts in case she just had me blocked. Nothing! My 2nd T thought it was cruel and unprofessional of her to not give me proper closure. After getting out I finally found another T, a really good one. After telling her every detail about my first T she contacted my first T and ended up questioning some things my first T did to me. A lot of the Ts at the psych ward said my T probably dumped me due to insurance reasons, being afraid I'd sue her.


Anyway, I really think if a person has too much trauma that it's just goes beyond the standard models of psychology. People like me are so uncommon that it's probably not practical for psychology to spend much time researching DID, especially people who were tortured as an infant to such a degree that my first two infancy flashbacks I had gave me what my psychiatrist said was a non-epileptic seizure. And the tons of evidence such as my dad and older brother said that my dad used to put caution tape all around my baby crib in so desperate attempt to keep my older brother away from me. Also I look like a traumatized disaster in my early childhood photos. Childhood trauma was so bad that even in my early 20s I was terrified of red lights while driving for fear of someone pulling up next to me in their car and looking at me.


Sorry to babble so much. Maybe this deserted part of the forum is my only therapy. I used to post in the Coffee house check-in threads but after leaving and somehow ending up in the "black void" for so long I just can't get myself to do that anymore.

My heart goes out to you... it truly does.

Not every therapist or pdoc is a good one (sadly!), or is a good fit.

You have to shop around which I know is tiresome. What happened to the second T? Are they still available?

Have you tried EFT tapping, or EMDR therapy? Something that might help you feel good, less traumatised?

I like this meditation because it helps me to feel safe:

Insight Timer - #1 Free Meditation App for Sleep, Relax & More

Maybe you'll like it, too?

Thanks, I didn't know about EFT tapping, I'll look into and watch videos. My last T gave me some EMDR but not that much for some reason. She wanted to focus on other things. I left my 2nd T out of frustration of not seeing progress. And I sensed that I was some kind of charity for her so I asked and she said I'm part of her charity. Psychologists don't like doing all of the paper work required to get paid for each session from medical according to my 1st T. So she just does so many therapy sessions per week for free and it made me feel bad using up her time so I started taking a week or 2 from therapy and told her it didn't seem like any progress so she said it's best I look for another T.

There's no hope for me it seems except maybe post here, meditate, and just wait for the next bad luck so I have an excuse to go to the forest and I guess inner world people will take over I'll go to black void hell and cycle starts over but they are not magic so eventually we'll run out of money, my car will breakdown or something and there will be no option but to go to the forest. That will be plan b or me but they have plan c lol. Plan B is to not eat. Plan C is to eat and try to survive in the forest but I'm not gonna to kill an animal even if it means starving to death!! And I can't see anyone in inner world killing an animal either. So even though my happiest dream ever will come true eventually I'm s till scared there might be an afterlife and will be tortured forever which scares me to death so I'm just really trapped in hell no matter what.

For a few evenings over the past several weeks we, the host parts, have been trying to recall more early childhood trauma memories. We so much want to remember, but it seems like every time we do this there's an alter/part that starts fronting who is more than our system can handle. It's just so full of pain and trauma. It changes our reality 100%, as if the lights turn off to pitch black and we're submerged into a cold thick dark dark blue liquid and the environment is so thick and scary feeling like a freddy krueger movie. Idk that sounds weird and there's really no way of describing it when those parts wake up and start fronting. I don't really know much about it or who those parts are or if they're fragments of the host, which I assume I'm part of.

Anyway we still feel the need to know all of what happened to us, especially if our dad took us to some mk-ultra facility unbeknownst to him. Guess we could go back to therapy but I don't see how some therapist is going to protect us against that. If anything he/she will try to stop us from gaining the ultra trauma memories.

I am concerned for you, as you don't seem to have a good support system in place and you are obsessing now...

I am concerned that your obsessions will push you over the edge...

Try to ground yourself... you need to stay grounded... and take a break from the subject of the mk-ultra facility.

Really you need to get a support system, including a therapist asap.

I don't know how else to advise you, but to seek out professional help asap.

If my medical is still good then I will scan that website tomorrow to see if there are any good ones. Because I'm curious what the new T will say. Maybe they could add another disorder to our list of DID, Schizoaffective Disorder in addition a provisional diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder and Other Specified Personality Disorder with Borderline, Schizotypal, and Avoidant Features. And our two psychiatrists added generalized anxiety disorder, PTSD, and BPD. Oh I forgot what the depression one was called, maybe it's depressive disorder but that's only for certain parts. I'm no expert but I don't think it's possible for singletons to have all of those but it is with DID.

Ugg I'm such a spectrum of alters right now it's like a stadium up here. I just want to say hopefully our part who has a gut wrenching hate for humanity doesn't front for the new T otherwise psychopathy might be added to our list but that would be actually be funny.

That website psychologytoday is good. We might ask our DID psychologist if he'll do therapy for us but I doubt it because over the years we've asked him that like 3 times after we dump him and he said yes but then we changed our mind. Last time we text him last year was telling him we're going to be homeless and what should we do and he only told us who to call. He didn't seem to care about at all! So actually I'll probably search psychologytoday . Also we'll only do telehealth now over the internet. But tbh we/I have no idea if we're going to follow through. This feeling right now is so crazy we don't even feel human. Uggg, I hate disorders. I'm afraid a new T will just lock us up in a psych ward maybe that's the best ..............or just jump

Thunder rumbling
Castles crumbling
I am trying to hold on
God knows that I tried
Seeing the bright side
I'm not blind anymore