[Whisper888]

I think manipulation should be listed as one of the 7 deadly sins....
Its such a subtle, quiet attack. You don't even realize its happening at first, and then when you do, you ignore it, or just follow along so the boat doesn't rock. Often the manipulator is trying to get you to do something mundane...so you pick your battles and just give in. You take that subtle hint to get up from the dinner table to get the milk from the fridge...
No biggie right?
Wrong. THe problem is...this technique worked for them, so they use it to get more and more from you. And even if you recognize what is going on...it usually doesn't stop, they just change tactics. I decided to quit taking the hints, the subtle play on words meant to make me feel guilty so I would do what my husband wants, I thought...I'm through with this. Ill just quit playing the game. The thing is...everytime he tries to manipulate me. Its like having your ear flicked. It doesn't really hurt. But you notice it, and its annoying. By the end of the day...you have had your ear flicked 40 times. Now it hurts, you are angry and annoyed. BUT THE WORST PART...is they claim innocence. It wasn't a direct attack...so they didn't do anything wrong. It makes you feel like maybe your wrong, or exaggerating. This is their ace in the hole...they can manipulate you into doing or feeling what they want...without getting caught or putting up a fight.
I'm a fairly intelligent woman, good at assessing social situations, I actually never thought I would be a victim of manipulation. There were times I knew my husband was doing it, I just thought...I wont participate. There, problem solved. I guess it doesn't really work that way...it actually only takes one person to play the game of manipulation.

Hi,

You have figured him out. His cover is blown ... what do you want to happen next?

I just saw your other thread that you are divorcing. It is very hard and my marriage sounds similar to yours...my ex did those things. I figured him out after many years.

Getting divorced from them is difficult as they make everything difficult for us, if they can. I kept contact through the attorneys only. Hang in there and know you will get through this. You'll be free. Take care.

[xraychick01]

I'm a little unclear as to what manipulation entails. I think my recent ex was one but I'm not sure. Can someone clarify how manipulation works? Give specific examples?

[Whisper888]

Originally Posted by xraychick01

I'm a little unclear as to what manipulation entails. I think my recent ex was one but I'm not sure. Can someone clarify how manipulation works? Give specific examples?

Well...manipulation is when people use indirect ways to make you feel a certain way, or act a certain way. For example...if I'm tired and getting ready for bed. My husband says " sigh..well, good night then"
See...subtle. it's his way of showing that he is mad that I'm going to bed instead of spending time with him. But...he's done it to make me feel guilty. Which isn't right. If you want someone to spend time with you, just ask. You shouldn't try to subtely make them feel badly.
That's just...mean. in my opinion.

[OfficeWarrior]

Manipulation is a pretty broad concept.

Children manipulate all the time, and their parents manipulate them. At work you are constantly being manipulated, and manipulating other people. It's unrealistic to think that it would never happen between partners, even though in a perfect world, everything between adults in a loving relationship should be communicated openly.

Manipulation is not the same as expressing feelings. Even if those feelings are negative, frustration, grief etc.

But you're right, if he wants to spend time with you, he should just ask.

[LeeeLeee]

Originally Posted by Whisper888

I think manipulation should be listed as one of the 7 deadly sins....
Its such a subtle, quiet attack. You don't even realize its happening at first, and then when you do, you ignore it, or just follow along so the boat doesn't rock. Often the manipulator is trying to get you to do something mundane...so you pick your battles and just give in. You take that subtle hint to get up from the dinner table to get the milk from the fridge...
No biggie right?
Wrong. THe problem is...this technique worked for them, so they use it to get more and more from you. And even if you recognize what is going on...it usually doesn't stop, they just change tactics. I decided to quit taking the hints, the subtle play on words meant to make me feel guilty so I would do what my husband wants, I thought...I'm through with this. Ill just quit playing the game. The thing is...everytime he tries to manipulate me. Its like having your ear flicked. It doesn't really hurt. But you notice it, and its annoying. By the end of the day...you have had your ear flicked 40 times. Now it hurts, you are angry and annoyed. BUT THE WORST PART...is they claim innocence. It wasn't a direct attack...so they didn't do anything wrong. It makes you feel like maybe your wrong, or exaggerating. This is their ace in the hole...they can manipulate you into doing or feeling what they want...without getting caught or putting up a fight.
I'm a fairly intelligent woman, good at assessing social situations, I actually never thought I would be a victim of manipulation. There were times I knew my husband was doing it, I just thought...I wont participate. There, problem solved. I guess it doesn't really work that way...it actually only takes one person to play the game of manipulation.

The key to resolving it is finding that non-threatening way of bringing it up. He might not realize he's doing it. I know it seems impossible but he learned it somewhere along the line as a communication style.

My adult daughter always wakes me on mornings I'm home. She doesn't drive due to anxiety but often needs rides to work. I'm usually happy to help but I've noticed that if I don't offer, she'll start making a little extra noise and saying under her breathe.."oh shoot I'm going to be late..." Kind of hinting that she needs a ride again....KINDA MANIPULATIVE RIGHT?
I decided to address it. I said, "Hey, if you need a ride, just ask. No need to hint about it. Also, you should ask me the night before so I don't have to rush around and get ready last minute."

The behavior stopped for the most part. I catch little things here and there but I love a happy home so even though it's frustrating to encounter subtle manipulation sometimes, I nip it in the bud with a little good humor and it helps a bunch.

Good luck.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by xraychick01

I'm a little unclear as to what manipulation entails. I think my recent ex was one but I'm not sure. Can someone clarify how manipulation works? Give specific examples?

The examples listed already on this thread are good ones.

I once asked in therapy because it's one of those words that gets tossed around.
When I was a young teenager when my father was dating my stepmom, he had told me(I'll save commentary on whether that was a good parenting choice on his part) that she believed that I was manipulating him and that no he and I could not have one on one parent/child time. That's actually an example of manipulation, fyi, as it changed how he and I related, granted it was his choice.

My therapist explained that people who are manipulative are not Direct in asking for things or in expressing themselves. His example which I cannot pull clearly from memory this morning involved a conversation about someone with an addiction and how they covertly get their way. They will spin the conversation/demand in a circle and manage to get what they want. Whether it be money or something else.

[eskielover]

It's interesting how the symptoms of some Dx's play out in a way that comes across as manipulative & passive aggressive. Where it's not actually a behavior but the way their brain works that comes across that way. Makes life hell to live with someone like that though. I lived with more 1/2 truths or silent lies because he honestly thought that it was the way he said it was.

I found that whether someone does something intentional or not, the resulting hurt is still the same.

I remember every time I would talk about getting a divorce, my H would go out car shopping & we would end up getting committed to a new car loan rather than getting a divorce.

Honestly getting out of the warped way his mind thought was the best thing I ever did for myself but it took 33 years to finally get out. I saw the warped way his mind thought before I ever got married but I didn't have the understanding at the age of 21 to actually grasp what it meant. He had told me that he got lousy grades in college in the classes that he thought he was smarter than the professor in because he thought it was a waste of time for him to put any effort into the class. Then after graduation, he didn't bother to interview with other companies on campus because he was SURE that the bank he worked for through college would hire him into their computer department. They didn't hire him because he didn't have a high enough GPA. He got angry & said that his GPA didn't show his capability........the sad thing is that IT DID SHOW HIS ATTITUDE....but I didn't have the words to sort through it at the time I told my mom I really didn't want to get married to him. I manipulated my own thinking telling myself that someone with an education & a good solid degree couldn't possibly be irresponsible like my own dad was without an education. (ah, even manipulation of our thinking). He always placed the blame of something else rather than taking responsibility for his own behavior.

The priceless one was when he tried to convince our T that he failed in his engineering career because he only went to a state college rather than Cal Tech. I graciously pointed out to our T that his brother had gone to the same useless state university & had received his masters from there & was a successful assistant director on a local power company & I highly doubted that it was the University's problem. Manipulating blame was a perfection of his not wanting people to see who & what he really was.

[Maksim kanareikin]

Originally Posted by Whisper888

Well...manipulation is when people use indirect ways to make you feel a certain way, or act a certain way. For example...if I'm tired and getting ready for bed. My husband says " sigh..well, good night then"
See...subtle. it's his way of showing that he is mad that I'm going to bed instead of spending time with him. But...he's done it to make me feel guilty. Which isn't right. If you want someone to spend time with you, just ask. You shouldn't try to subtely make them feel badly.
That's just...mean. in my opinion.

Our culture is such that we often can not Express their desire openly. So we have to resort to the hints. But if you felt guilty, so in your opinion, do you did something wrong.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Maksim kanareikin

Our culture is such that we often can not Express their desire openly. So we have to resort to the hints. But if you felt guilty, so in your opinion, do you did something wrong.

But in this case, the husband may not actually have the desire to spend time with the wife. He just has the desire to make the wife BELIEVE that he is depriving himself to accommodate her selfish desires (a point for him if youre keeping score). This way, she "owes" him one. When in fact he is cheating.

[Fuzzybear]

[Whisper888]

Originally Posted by Maksim kanareikin

Our culture is such that we often can not Express their desire openly. So we have to resort to the hints. But if you felt guilty, so in your opinion, do you did something wrong.

Hmmm. An interesting statement. I think the key here is intent. Whether u do or say something indirectly or straight forward. What is the intent? My husband's intent was to make me feel badly enough that I would do what he wanted. In my thinking....why would you do that to someone you love and respect? He is fine with hurting my feelings to get what he wants. That is the core of the matter. And it doesn't happen once in a while...it happens fairly frequently.
And the comments don't make me feel guilty in a way that I have some inner guilt about doing something wrong...they actually just make me angry and mad. And hurt. I guess the better phrase would have been...he is manipulating me....rather then saying guiltily me.
Don't get me wrong. ..people manipulate in a daily basis, it's part of dealing with people and relationships. But what happens when it is done with I'll intent? Is this still ok?
I'm sorry..but I still say no.

[Maksim kanareikin]

Originally Posted by whisper888

hmmm. An interesting statement. I think the key here is intent. Whether u do or say something indirectly or straight forward. What is the intent? My husband's intent was to make me feel badly enough that i would do what he wanted. In my thinking....why would you do that to someone you love and respect? He is fine with hurting my feelings to get what he wants. That is the core of the matter. And it doesn't happen once in a while...it happens fairly frequently.
And the comments don't make me feel guilty in a way that i have some inner guilt about doing something wrong...they actually just make me angry and mad. And hurt. I guess the better phrase would have been...he is manipulating me....rather then saying guiltily me.
Don't get me wrong. ..people manipulate in a daily basis, it's part of dealing with people and relationships. But what happens when it is done with i'll intent? Is this still ok?
I'm sorry..but i still say no.

You think he's doing it deliberately? Then he really is manipulating you. But he was like this. It can not be undone, although you can try. Try to smile in response and that relieving myself of the guilt. And with him in the open to talk about what you feel bad when he tries to get her way, without taking into account your wishes.

I'm sorry if something is not clear. I am from Russia and use the translator.

[Maksim kanareikin]

Originally Posted by unaluna

But in this case, the husband may not actually have the desire to spend time with the wife. He just has the desire to make the wife BELIEVE that he is depriving himself to accommodate her selfish desires (a point for him if youre keeping score). This way, she "owes" him one. When in fact he is cheating.

We don't know what he wants. All our assumptions about our fantasies.