porn, porn, porn! these are the words that echo my mind whenever I do it. I hate watching porn in secret. I don't seem to have any choice. My computer is in my room at all times and I can't put it out in the living room for others to watch what I'm doing. I've been trying to get rid of the internet so that i wouldn't have to deal with all this crap.
isn't it true that porn alters your brain chemistry?

[Travelinglady]

Heyitsme, it is I again. I see no one is responding. I suggest you google this topic. I did that and saw some places, sites that addressed this topic.

[IchbinkeinTeufel]

I imagine people are too embarrassed or something. :P I'll just give my view:

Doing... what you do... is pretty much natural, assuming you're not, IDK, into... as my brother jokes: PRINTER PORN! Hah. So yeh, it's a natural thing! We all have a certain level of needs, we're all human, and we all experience lust. If you're generally obsessed with watching porn, then perhaps you should go with PAYNE1's suggestion. Oh, also, try to use your own imagination for stimulation, once in a while, because I think it's unhealthy to rely on visual/audio stimulation alone.

Oh, one more thing, if you're too young, like, young young, then I'd stay away from it, because it's my personal belief that it's unhealthy... the softer stuff like images of beautiful women, or hunky men, depending on how you work and your gender, I imagine are perfectly understandable and not at all damaging. Haha. Lets just say that when I was younger, I wish I had used such innocent forms of stimulation. :P ...Ah, the old days had it sussed.. now there's just too much creepy crap. The Internet is full of seriously disturbing crap, crap that you seriously don't want to see, especially when browsing for stimulation...

I'm no sexpert or porno nerd, but I'm human, and therefore feel my response is justified. :P Plus, it was amusing. xD Not often I see the subject of porn on this site. :P

[NoCake]

Yeah too much porn can screw with you. In some cases guys that get addicted to it find themselves unable to get of to normal sex because of it. It basically messes with your preferences I guess. That can be fixed by giving it up. Usually a month without it undoes everything.

You might try setting up an internet blocker and using it to block all porn sites. Give it an annoyingly long password that you can't just remember so that it's more difficult to get access to it.

[High Treason]

Originally Posted by heyitsme7

isn't it true that porn alters your brain chemistry?

The first thing you have to understand is that absolutely everything you do or experience alters your brain. Everything. However, it sounds to me like you have run across some sort of propaganda somewhere.

If porn is causing you distress, then it is a problem and you should do something about it. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it. Watching porn (for most people) is one of the most harmless things you can do.

[Dreamer11]

There's accountability software that notifies another person each time you access porn. You could set that up with someone...would make it less of a secret. It would also put someone else in the position of being able to offer you support for kicking the habit.

As far as how porn affects your brain, here is some food for thought.
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marr...aphy_lies.aspx

[High Treason]

Originally Posted by Dreamer11

As far as how porn affects your brain, here is some food for thought.
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marr...aphy_lies.aspx

Consider the source on this. Focus on the Family is one of the most despicable propaganda spewing organizations around.

For example, here are their views on "curing" homosexuality: http://www.focusonthefamily.com/soci...-position.aspx

Go here to see them argue that the USA should become a theocracy: http://www.focusonthefamily.com/soci...-position.aspx

Bottom line... before you believe some list you find on the Internet, make sure you know where it's coming from.

Originally Posted by Dreamer11

There's accountability software that notifies another person each time you access porn. You could set that up with someone...would make it less of a secret. It would also put someone else in the position of being able to offer you support for kicking the habit.

As far as how porn affects your brain, here is some food for thought.
Pornography Lies - Focus on the Family

Well, that software sounds like some seriously batshit crazy behavior. Why would anyone do that to themselves? Why would anyone do that to other people? No. Just no.

And the "porn is degrading to women" argument is weak. Sexual fantasies are not about equal, loving, moral relationships. I don't know which world you live in, but behaving in a way during sexual fantasies that is contrary to what our values in modern society dictate is perfectly normal. I have seriously ****ed up fantasies. That is not because I'm a seriously ****ed up person, immoral or because I dislike women (wouldn't have been if I was straight either). Women need to deal with porn, that's all there is to it. It's not about women and so-called feminists need to find some real issues to care about. Let people have their fantasies.

So yes, I'm saying: We should watch all the rape porn we want. It doesn't hurt anyone.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Dreamer11

As far as how porn affects your brain, here is some food for thought.
Pornography Lies - Focus on the Family

Hmm... I have just read this highly enlightening piece of writing...

One of the five points its two co-authors make is...

"Lie: Women are property. It's common to see pictures of the slick car with the sexy girl draped over it. The unspoken message is, "Buy one, and you get them both." Hard-core porn carries this even further. It displays women like merchandise in a catalogue, exposing them as openly as possible for the customer to look at. It's not surprising that many young men think that if they have spent some money taking a girl out, they have a right to have sex with her. Porn tells us that women can be bought."

And I thought that women had been considered property until very recently in most jurisdictions and but "very recently" ended in most jurisdictions roughly in the 19th century, BEFORE the advent of the Internet in general and Online porn, in particular. Apparently, the authors of his enlightening piece of writing would contend that online porn RETROACTIVELY influenced the world's history to treat women as property. You need to believe in some sort of super powers or magic for that, but if online porn is so powerful, I am willing to grant the possibility that it has magical powers as well.

One of the many translations from the Bible says:

"
◄ Exodus 20:17 ►

New International Version (©2011)
"You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.""

It is very clear - crystal clear - from this quotation that women were treated as property at the time of the writing of this particular portion of the Bible.

Were the creators of the Bible influenced by online pornography or did they conceive of making a list of items of property and including women in this list completely independently and on their own?

Caveat: per the Exodus quotation, not every woman is a piece of property but only somebody's wife. So I can see how online pornography went above and beyond the Bible in making EVERY woman an item of property regardless of her marital status.

Apart from discussing all of this highly entertaining stuff, heyitsme7, you really should do something that does not involve being in front of the computer - not reading the Internet, not posting on the Internet, not masturbating to online porn, not anything Internet-related. I reiterate my suggestion to go play badminton or tennis.

I have also explained to you many times that porn is a huge industry by numbers, which means that lots of people use it - I personally do not because I do not understand what is enjoyable about it, but in a market economy a big industry cannot exist without consumers. So clearly many people find it enjoyable. So just by looking at the numbers ((1) porn is a huge industry, and (2) the world has not come to an end ==> conclusion that most people can handle porn fine)) it is clear that most people can handle porn just fine, without asking questions about how to stop their porn use on a daily basis. I believe that you can become one of those people if you stop trying to stop the activity of watching porn altogether but simply diversify your whole portfolio of activities - see the badminton suggestion above.

I do not know what porn does to the brain. Probably, it does something because everything does something as High Treason succinctly pointed out. Most likely it does not do anything permanently.

I do know for a fact that exercise does great things to the brain. So, for a third time, log off the computer and go play badminton or tennis.

Also, if you are concerned with the effects of various things on your brain, you may want to buy fish oil. It is not certain that it affects the brain positively, but there is enough data to suggest that it does, and since it is cheap, it is worth taking even without waiting for the final verdict on its effect of the brain.

There is also some evidence that pomegranates affect the brain in a beneficial manner.

[hamster-bamster]

And, I am glad you have moved this topic from the sexual addiction forum and all the other forums where you posted before into the Internet addiction forum, because I agree with you that you have a problem with the overuse of the Internet IN GENERAL.

In addition, if you use the internet while sitting on a chair, you are reducing your expected lifespan. There is a mounting body of research on the ill effects of prolonged sitting and the research is non-partisan, evidence-based, etc. - it is not propaganda, unlike the stuff about porn/brain effects.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by High Treason

Consider the source on this. Focus on the Family is one of the most despicable propaganda spewing organizations around.

For example, here are their views on "curing" homosexuality: Our Position (Same-Sex Counseling) - Focus on the Family

Go here to see them argue that the USA should become a theocracy: Our Position (Church/State) - Focus on the Family

Bottom line... before you believe some list you find on the Internet, make sure you know where it's coming from.

HT,

That IS a good way to go about it - consider the source, compare what kind of propaganda the source has issued on other issues, etc. All good and valid.

However, for a teenager - OP is a teen boy - it is also helpful to review the offered materials on their own, without considering the source. If you review the offered thing on Lies about Pornography ON ITS OWN (I did it with one fifth of the recommended article in the post above), you will see that is stupid ON ITS OWN, internally. Then you do not need to go hunt for other recommendations from the same source, etc.

These two approaches to making a judgment on information found on the Net - yours and mine - are not mutually exclusive but just nicely complement each other.

[emgreen]

Why do I have the urge to drown myself after reading all these threads. Only the individual can decide whether porn...masturbation, etc. can have a negative impact on one's life. If you want to take the Biblical route, hey, then do it. It's wrong according to fundamentalist Christians. If you want to view these things as a normal part of human sexuality (within reason), do that. It seems you're asking for approval. You're the only one who can provide that for yourself.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by emgreen

If you want to take the Biblical route, hey, then do it.

There is no "Biblical route" because the Bible is internally inconsistent.

It is no wonder that it is internally inconsistent, because the Bible is a very large collection of texts that were written and edited and re-edited over a long period of time by multiple contributors who were largely anonymous, in multiple languages. That alone makes it impossible for something like that to be internally consistent.

Then there is the issue of multiple translations that may give the same passages of text different meanings.

Therefore, the quest for "the Biblical route" is doomed from the start and futile.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by emgreen

Why do I have the urge to drown myself after reading all these threads. Only the individual can decide whether porn...masturbation, etc. can have a negative impact on one's life. If you want to take the Biblical route, hey, then do it. It's wrong according to fundamentalist Christians. If you want to view these things as a normal part of human sexuality (within reason), do that. It seems you're asking for approval. You're the only one who can provide that for yourself.

I do see your point.

I thought that the question was just about some objective, measurable, and quantifiable damage to the brain allegedly caused by porn.

If that indeed was the intent of the OP, then the Bible is irrelevant - the Bible was written way before any studies on the brain were done.

But I do see your point - you are viewing the OP not as what it is on the surface - a question about alleged damage - but as a post that seeks outside approval.

You have deep insight, I believe.

[Travelinglady]

Is there not some scientific research on the effects of pornography? Surely there is......

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by PAYNE1

Is there not some scientific research on the effects of pornography? Surely there is......

To do any scientific research on any subject - any random subject whatsoever - you first need to define the subject.

So that is the first obstacle - porn is hard to define.

Pomegranates and fish oil, by contrast, are easy to define, and we all agree on what they are. Still, even fish oil can be in capsules or in liquid form and pomegranates can be fresh or juiced or packaged in capsules, and those differences present difficulties.

Porn is much harder to define than fish oil and pomegranates.

So if you want to find scientific research, the first step is to see if scientists have been able to agree on the scope of the research.

You cannot do any research without first agreeing on the scope of it.

In general, you cannot do any project without first defining the scope.

[THE16THDOCTOR]

The only damage it causes is the guarantee of getting freaky

[Travelinglady]

True, Ham-Bam, it does have to be defined, but I'm sure any given study could define it within its parameters. I will search to see what I can find on the subject when I get a chance.....

Okay, I googled it and there are some scientific articles on the subject. If someone wants to know what these studies have to say, then I suggest they research it. We can spend lots of time giving our personal opinions. For example, I personally believe it does do permanent damage. But if people don't want to take my word for it, studies researching it are available.

Research can be done on a subject if the subject is defined by the researchers. It is true that the definition can vary, however, depending on the study. However, I think most of us know in general what is meant by "porn."

I do have official credentials to support my knowledge of research. It's not something that I need to argue.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by PAYNE1

However, I think most of us know in general what is meant by "porn."

I do not know what "porn" is and I have a lot of experience with porn-filtering technology, so I had to define porn using some sort of heuristics for practical business purposes (not scientific research, but business) and did OK in that task, but the whole exercise demonstrated that it is basically impossible to define it well.

That leads me to believe that "most of us" who have not had that kind of experience are even less equipped to define "porn".

Note that the business needs of porn filtering differ dramatically from the research needs, because for the business purposes it is OK to err on the side of being conservative - at least to some extent - and business needs do not and should not entail the level of rigor inherent in scientific research.

In other words, a sloppy definition is OK for business purposes but not OK for research.

[hamster-bamster]

"tens of millions of Americans consume porn. That’s more people than watch CSI, or go to pro basketball games, or own an iPod. " (quoting one of the sexologists, Marty Klein, PhD, Dr. Marty Klein » People who feel victimized by porn: Let’s give them sympathy, not a Congressional hearing, as I do not have time to do an independent inquiry into the stats of the industry and since he is a specialist, I will just quote him, but his figures agree with the ones I had some years ago when I was involved in filtering).

So I do not know what CSI is, do not go to basketball games or any sports games, and have lost my iPod, so the comparison between porn and all of those does not impress me, personally, but I do realize that Klein makes this comparison because the CSI/basketball/iPod activities are very common.

So porn is a large scale thing. Very common. Many people do that. Klein estimates that "When you drive down your street tonight, every fourth or fifth house you pass has someone in it who enjoyed porn last month."

OK, this is closer to home for me personally, because while I personally cannot relate to CSI and basketball, I can relate to driving down the street. Anybody who drives a car can relate to that.

I would expect that permanent damage done on such a large scale would be observable. In what ways?

Let us picture those possible ways.

Klein, in another article: "In fact, law enforcement statistics tell us that since broadband internet brought free, high-quality porn into everyone's home 12 years ago, the rate of sexual violence in North American has gone down. "

I am not interested in the sexual violence part because we are not talking about ACTIONS - violence is ACTIONS. We are just talking about pure brain damage.

So the relevant part from this quote for me is "12 years". High def porn for 12 years.

How much is the lag between the viewing and the onset of permanent damage?

Say, 6 years.

OK... so maybe that is why the SSDI rates have gone up?
Disabled America: 5.4 Million Join Social Security Disability Insurance Rolls Under Obama - Investors.com

Maybe it is wrong to look for the reasons behind the rise in the SSDI rates in the state of the economy?

Maybe the culprit is porn?..

Or is 6 or even 12 years not enough to observe the damage because the damage accrues over many years, and we are yet to see the devastating consequences of the large scale access to high def porn?

[Travelinglady]

But for any research, the researchers have to define the terms. Operational definitions are used in my field of research, for example. So, "hostility" might be defined as "how many times on person hits another" within the parameters of one research study.

True, a definition of "porn" might vary. In fact, we have even distinguished between "soft" porn versus "hard" porn. Thus, anybody analyzing the research would need to see how porn is defined within the parameters of the studies.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by PAYNE1

But for any research, the researchers have to define the terms. Operational definitions are used in my field of research, for example. So, "hostility" might be defined as "how many times on person hits another" within the parameters of one research study.

True, a definition of "porn" might vary. In fact, we have even distinguished between "soft" porn versus "hard" porn. Thus, anybody analyzing the research would need to see how porn is defined within the parameters of the studies.

Right. But you, personally, probably have a very vague idea of what porn is - you posted that all girls in porn must be skinny, which is counterfactual.

So you are making a judgment on something that you vaguely do not like and are also misinformed about.

I do not think that is a valid way to make judgment.

Say, I do not watch porn and I do not watch news.

Why do I not watch porn? I think it is amusing, but not anything more than that. Maybe I should look into more unusual or more refined porn to find what I like, but I so far have had other priorities. Maybe there is something there for me to discover later. I personally have no understanding how somebody can get aroused looking at images or media. But since the industry is big, I conclude that I am just an outlier and do not make judgment on what so many other people do.

Why do I not watch news?

Well, I have been literate in Russian since age 4 and in English since age 6 and in French since age 11 and in German since age 18. All of that literacy combined equips me to READ news. True, if I ever get blind, I may need to listen to news podcasts on the radio. But so far I have a pretty good eyesight.

I occasionally see news against my will. Say, in a gym - you know how they place the TV's over there.

I find the news watching experience completely horrifying. First, while the news anchor is talking, some random information such as stock quotes appears on the screen - why do I need that??

Second, the women who are news anchors have artificial looking smiles, too much makeup, and have artificial and affected facial expressions. I find it horrifying to look at them.

The men do not have (visible) makeup but the rest of the above applies to them too.

They speak using unnatural voice, with unpleasant pitch, and unpleasant intonations.

Their gesturing is artificial and unpleasant as well.

To me, porn is better than news because even though it is not genuine, it is not THAT horrible.

So if I were somehow pressed to make a choice between news and porn, I would choose porn. Luckily, I do not need to watch either.

It baffles me that other people, who, I imagine, are as literate in English as I am, CHOOSE to watch their news. WHAT IS WRONG WITH PRINT - newspapers or news on the internet? You can read them in peace and quiet, without stock quotes running through the screen, and without having to listen to artificial sounding voices and looking at artificial looking faces. A clear win, in my opinion.

Yet, I OBSERVE that many people watch the news.

So, I CONCLUDE that 1) I must be an outlier, and 2) the news watching is not as horrible in its consequences as it appears to me, since I observe that the bank is still open during regular hours and the world around me, in general, has not come to a complete halt.

So I invite you to apply the same attitude towards porn - while you personally do not find it enjoyable, you can observe that others do, you can further observe that the world has not yet come to a complete halt, and therefore conclude that it is a harmless type of media.

Unless, again, the damage accrues over time, over many years, and the bank WILL eventually close its doors SOLELY because its workers would be unable to do simple calculations due the deep brain damage from porn use and not for any reasons within the economy.

So, if the damage accrues over time, I see that my observations of the world around me do not amount to evidence that the activity is largely harmless. If so, I would like to know what is estimated to be the lag of time after which the damage would become observable? Is it within my lifetime or not within my lifetime?

[Travelinglady]

I am not convinced by your arguments. As a matter of fact, I am very personally familiar with porn. I've even done Dallas with Debbie. (And I know that she really didn't "do Dallas," but was doing in order to get to Dallas!) Plus I have read porn mags, both male and female. I have even watched porn in a movie theater. I have ordered it from TV, rented it, etc. I know longer do any of that, however. Why? Because I personally see the damage that it does. And I think the damage can be permanent.

By the way, I am confused. When did I say "all girls in porn must be skinny"? I can certainly tell you that not all the people in porn are very good-looking!

I know what I am talking about, based on my experiences and the experiences of other people I know who have been involved with porn. Heyitsme7, I encourage you to try to rid yourself of this habit.

The damage is being done as we speak or write, as the case may be.

I rest my case. I will not be returning to this thread.

[Perna]

All/any habits change your brain, make neural pathways stronger and others weaker. It can be as simple as my friend who started a story about going downstairs "before I brushed my teeth" (as if that was important; it was his habit and something had been so disrupting (I believe it was someone at his door) as to disturb him/the way he normally did things) to spending too much time viewing porn so you don't get other things done or don't interact with other people. Since you are complaining about the amount you view porn, I'd say you have a problem habit.

If you really want to stop, I would put the computer where others can see your use, maybe just turn the desk/chair, etc. around so you would face an open door but still be in your room. You'd have some privacy for when you use the computer for work or study but a little too openness for things that you feel need to be "secret".

There's no easy way to change such a strong habit that is associated with the primitive parts of our brain like food, sex, aggression, etc. When our limbic system gets involved, the Amygdala, changing those behaviors is extremely difficult (gambling, drinking, sexual addictions, etc.) but, possible if you work hard at it.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by PAYNE1

By the way, I am confused. When did I say "all girls in porn must be skinny"? I can certainly tell you that not all the people in porn are very good-looking!

In your post here: http://forums.psychcentral.com/2965170-post2.html

thread ID=2965170 and your post's ID=2

You said: "Of course, all the girls on it are going to be smaller."

You did not exactly say "skinny", but you said "smaller" than the OP on that thread, who is overweight. Since we do not know how much overweight she is, in precise numbers, for all girls in porn to be smaller than her, all girls MUST be skinny.

I do not see how else it could be that you realize that people in porn vary in size, yet, all girls there are smaller than an overweight woman whose weight is not known to you.