[(JD)]

I know we have and have had some members who "live off the grid" and by that I mean totally... in their vehicle or on the street.

I'm wondering, especially for living in a vehicle, what the biggest concerns are...and what they miss the most, what emotional impact it's had...etc

With my PTSD and without a T for a year now (he's still on medical leave) my plans to sell the house and "go off the grid" become stronger each month.

I've researched and thought of many many things..but just wondering about things I may have missed, or need to reconsider... anyone's input is fine...but if you've lived in a car or on the street (technically Homeless) let me know?

Thanks.

I was homeless off and on for quite a while about 6-7 years ago. I only spent a few nights in a car and never on the street but I was around people who did. Some problems are
1) the police (they generally will not let you sleep on the street or even in your car unless you're on private property and have the permission of the owner and
2) lack of toilet and bathing facilities.
3) electricity for some things, like charging a mobile phone and refrigeration of food.
4) you're at greater risk of becoming a crime victim if you're alone.

You might want to rent a PO box to get your mail before you sell your house, too. Most post offices require proof of permanent address now before they will rent a PO box to you.

There's a woman around here who has a van (two seater) and she had the back custom fit with cushions and a table.

When I was homeless, I usually ended up going to a day shelter to take a shower. I was glad to have the shower, but being around the people there was not a pleasant experience.

If I was going to be off the grid again, it would be good to have a small piece of land and either a nice tent or a yurt and a vehicle.

I'm curious why you think that being homeless would be better for your PTSD. I have a friend who's a veteran and has PTSD and spent a little while homeless and it was horrible for him. I used to see him during the daytime and he would look like hell.

[(JD)]

Thanks for your reply, I really do appreciate it.

I have a home and it would be much less money to have a camper van and rent spaces or... and the van would be wheelchair accessible too... I don't have one now, so I go NOWHERE except to physical therapy and doctors and very brief grocery trips... but out to enjoy something? forget it... too much pain and fatigue...

If I sold my home I would have money to buy my own van and still have income to live "nicely" off the grid imo.

The house is a lot with which to contend...overwhelms me (with PTSD and no therapy). I'm under worker comp and they say that as long as I can walk in and out of the doctor's offices, they don't owe me a vehicle to do anything else. My MD supposedly said that once I get to where I cannot drive, she'll push for an accessible van for me ( ???) Plus the judge increased my PCAs hours for very little more time...and the carrier has threatened to try and remove ALL my permanent total benefits (yeah that triggers PTSD eh?)... and I don't want to be caught panicking without a plan.

SO I have no life to speak of... spend most of my time going to care facilities and spending time with my dog and on the computer. Sounds like camper life to me...

I have a free pass to enter all Federal National Parks... and gym memberships are a dime a dozen in FLorida... plus the Y has good memberships...so plenty of places to shower etc. Plus I can always bail on the van for a night or two and get a hotel

I am a camper at heart, though it was when much younger that I backpacked and hiked and taught thousands of Scouters how to survive in the woods

But I would be pretty much on my own---just like now.

[(JD)]

It's part of PTSD... fight, freeze or FLIGHT... problem is, everywhere I go, there I am!

this is an interesting thread JD.

Okay, that makes sense. There are places around here that rent RV spaces by the month and that also have bathhouse facilities. It would be a lot safer to be somewhere like that. In fact, if you're in a camper, you'd be a lot safer in general.

Oddly, when you camp, you meet lots of people.

I don't get out much either because of health problems that cause energy limitations and pain. I live in an apartment in public housing and my neighbors do a number on my head sometimes. Sometimes at night when I can't sleep and I can hear people cursing outside and rap music playing, I imagine I'm back sleeping in the tent.

I actually enjoyed sleeping in the tent - it was all the activity required to get food, stay clean, do laundry, take away the trash, etc, that was exhausting. I think sleeping outdoors, especially when it's cold (if you have a good sleeping bag) helps insomnia.

I can empathize with the part about the house. I used to have a house and I liked having it, but things were always happening to it and I was on a very limited income. And there was that one problem neighbor.

[(JD)]

Thanks.
I'm trying to foresee the emotional issues...as well as the physical (which I think I know--- biggest being the weather and security...if I buy a conversion van with a kitchenette and shower, ac and bed etc no problems there)...

IDK how much tougher I can be in my mind than what I'm managing now... I'm having a doost of a time keeping it all together in my head, and making lists doesn't seem to help anymore... so much to keep track of in owning a house...and I don't think I can do it much longer...

I've been trying to find a checklist, a few of them actually, about living in a small motorhome (Class b) and supplies needed/space needed... and how to manage all that... but alas

I think selling the house and buying a complete new accessible van is not going to occur... I'd be afraid it'd be so nice someone would steal it... but if I could manage it mentally to buy a used one, or a used regular accessible van and outfit it for basics only...see how it goes... I just don't know.

I do recall one of the last "therapy" things my T said, on the phone, was that he really didn't like the sound of that...

[divine1966]

We have very cold winters and usually hot summers so living on the street or car would not be possible . Depends on a climate

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[winter4me]

I lived off the grid for near 20yrs----in a home-built house my ex is still in. I miss it. I have my house up for sale now, plan is to get a c-van, I have found positions to do camp nursing summer, fall, and spring----winters to travel...
that is my rest-of-my-life plan. I think my past experience will serve me well. I would recommend reading web sites, blogs, (& books) about and by folks doing what you are considering. It is a kind of community in and of itself.
I think it will be a good, freeing thing.....for me at least.
Bathrooms aren't too hard to find. (& if the woods are the option, that is ok too) I would likely rig a shower with a camp shower and a large galvanized bucket with handles to capture the water for tossing. Without pressure, five gallons lasts a long time. Also, a composting toilet is an option now--( there are some nice ones pre-made, at the house we built one off the porch; and it did not smell like those chemical toilets, worked well for food stuff and wood shavings....or even old fashioned "chamber pots" that can be disposed of later.
I would want a lp gas burner for heating water, cooking...heating elements use a lot of electricity, but some things do not. Now, with all the wifi etc. available, it is actually easier to be "off" but still in touch...
I plan to have one or two van top containers for extra clothing, dry goods etc.
National Parks are great, as are other campgrounds, places----winter can be fun if you are into doing winter activities, but if you are mobile, you can go to warmer climes during that time.
Some gyms still charge a nominal fee for day use (showers etc).

Living in a motor home in an RV park is way different from living in your car or on the street. I'm not sure which one your therapist said he didn't like the sound of.

[(JD)]

Yes...good stuff thanks

I do have a portable marine toilet, small and quite efficient for emergencies lol I can always go into one of my doctor's offices if I wanted to stick around... but would think about moving with the weather/temperature if I could manage worker comp to pay whomever physical therapist I had to see... I still go 3 x a week..hobble in walk out.

Yes I've made and used solar showers before..and my ordinary shower is less than 3 minutes anyway... one gallon is plenty!

I'm trying to think psychologically...how would I handle it? I love to be outside, and "sit" with the dog in the backyard for 30-60 minutes at a time several times a day (I can't sit for that long, but you know what I mean)...

Having money in the back is so very important to me... been poor, rich, poor, and well off... and want to stay that way now! So I have to figure out finances really well and always have enough to buy a home. Keeping my excellent credit is a project too...

I have used a Post Office Box for over 20 years now...worker comp Private Investigators went through my regular mail all the time, had the Postal Service warn them at least 3 x...but unless they caught them in the act...? AND I use that physical address when I have to give one and don't want people to know where I really live (uh...yeah it's the PTSD).

My sons and their families have NEVER visited me in all the places I've lived alone...so no issue there with places to sit. lol

Storage is a project I have to decide... keep some in a small storage place for a small fee or dump it all?

sigh. I'm really struggling with whether any of this is rational...and whether I care.

[(JD)]

Originally Posted by jo_thorne

Living in a motor home in an RV park is way different from living in your car or on the street. I'm not sure which one your therapist said he didn't like the sound of.

Oh I always figured I'd buy a class B conversion van with a ramp/lift. Not much good for me to have a motorchair in the woods nor can I sleep on the ground or even a camp cot.

[Thunder Bow]

I have lived out of my vehicle for weeks on end out in the desert here. If you do it right, it can be a very spiritual experience.

[hvert]

I do not live off the grid, but I do a lot of camping and have lived out of a car or backpack for months at a time for pleasure rather than necessity. I have friends who have lived in their cars in urban areas when they were homeless.

I am not sure that camping is less expensive than owning a small home in a lower-cost of living area. Free campsites are often difficult to get to, have no facilities, limit stays, and may be full when you get there. National Park campsites are expensive and crowded with inadequate bathroom facilities (imo). Private campgrounds that rent space by the month can get pretty pricey. While we were on our trip, we saw quite a few homeless families living at the KOA and it really surprised us given how expensive it was even at the monthly rate. If you qualify for a senior discount it's probably a lot less.

I think it's a great thing to do from a lifestyle point of view, but maybe about break-even from a COL standpoint. Maybe you could try it out for a week or two before you decide to sell your home?

[(JD)]

Yes the expense and the hassle are two main things to consider for me.

I cannot rent a home or an apartment, to get out from under the responsibilities of home ownership because it would cost me more than double what it costs me to live now

A class b conversion van ...it can be an extended van (not much though I want to fit in regular parking spots to shop)...

I'm making a list of what I would have to have with me all the time... and I've decided, through this thread process that I will rent a small space for things I cannot at this time part with permanently. I have many items that have been in the family since the 40s... and nobody wants them That should tell me something, but they are limited by space or indifference (like my sons...haven't a clue).

And so expenses are next to figure... a larger safety deposit box at the bank, a small storage room, and keep the PO Box...

Yes, I know you are correct about park spaces...cost and filling up... I do have senior pass and discounts... I figure to stick around the area for a while, for physical therapist and perhaps my T to return? (Pray that he returns before I actually do this!!!) I know many churches that will let me park overnight if I wanted to save the camp fee... but there are camps a plenteous down here... the cost of the house in toto for me is just under $20k a year. And that's with me doing my own yard, btw. (Am I rambling? No, I'm talking out loud to myself...) I can no longer mow it even every week and that's with an electric riding mower...and string weeder/edger is about every 2 weeks... to pay someone would be an additional $150 a month! The homeowner's association fee (which I wouldn't have to pay) is low and only about 2 night's worth of camp fee lol...but hey...

Yeah gotta do the financials... Y membership, park passes, camp fees, extra vehicle fuel (I only drive 3 days a week for PT now)...stuff like that...IDK about other places but down here even the hotels have a maximum stay limit ... so I'd still have to move about if I wanted to sleep in a real bed all the time.

I'm leaning towards a not-complete conversion van ... no kitchen or bath facilities... something I can afford now without selling the house... and see what I can fit into it and how it is to take a trip...imagining it. Once I do sell the house I only have 2 years to reinvest the profit into another home or the government gets a chunk of it...I have to check to see if a mobile home counts (as in a full size equipped class b van ) then I could trade in my partial van for a real one?

Sigh. And of course I will have to give up my convertible. But she's pretty old now...bought her in 2001...haven't had a car payment in 13 years!

Oh now I am rambling. I hope I wake up from this fantasy before I do something rash.

[(JD)]

Originally Posted by hvert

I think it's a great thing to do from a lifestyle point of view, but maybe about break-even from a COL standpoint. Maybe you could try it out for a week or two before you decide to sell your home?

yeah I even thought about renting one...but at $74 a DAY for a MONTH long rental It's $125 a day otherwise... I could do a nice on site resort stay at Disney for that!

I don't want to break even, I want to put money into savings! I gotta do the financials. sigh.

[pipp]

i have lived on the streets..on and off for several years...but it has been a very long time ago now and the world has changed...all i really have to say in terms advice is...think carefully...i understand the urge to go, reinvent yourself, roam...so much...but it is also dangerous out there to be invisible and drifting..

and stressful in a very different, but just as miserable way...it will be a huge culture shock for you if you have never lived this way before...

if you do it, be on the lookout for those that are out there and can co op survival...but don't be too trusting either...dicey...

the rv thing is not so terrible because you can stop for periods of time and rest...keep in mind too...truck stops have full shower services, free wfi, all kinds of special services geared toward travelers, and usually have a convenience shop, good home cooking type restaurant, sometimes a hotel attached if you need out of the tin can...

plan this carefully if you are serious and leave yourself a safety net in case it goes bad on you...and stay safe!

Originally Posted by (JD)

Once I do sell the house I only have 2 years to reinvest the profit into another home or the government gets a chunk of it...

I haven't looked at the tax rules for selling your house in the last ten years or so, but have they tossed out the rule that says you get one time in your lifetime to sell your house and not pay capital gains tax on the proceeds? It's meant to be for elderly people who are downsizing to not owning a home anymore.

Living on the streets or in a car is way different than a camper or rv. Parking somewhere, lack of bathroom, no where to store food that needs to be refrigerated or frozen, gas, etc are a concern out of a car. An rv would work nicely I think. Gotta have a place to dump "waste" and parking is still a concern unless its a rv park.

[(JD)]

Yes I agree. I couldn't even begin to think of living out of my car... my body won't allow that to begin with...

but I think many of the psychological issues, the emotional reactions and feelings would be similar...if one had no "home"...

And perhaps keeping the house is still a possibility...though renting it out has its own issues (been there did that and was cheated by the realtor who was supposed to keep track of the property)...

(However the FL capital gains tax will not really affect me, due to my income, that I have lived in the house more than 2 years and that I will probably re-buy someplace within 2 years... even so it will only be 1.9% if I fail to rebuy.)

I love having a yard and home to call mine but ya gotta take everything that comes with it. (Stress, time, money for repairs, etc.) And it always seems to be something. Its not for everyone but I feel complete having somewhere to "hang my hat". Mentally, living on the streets/out of a car was the worst. Physically it was devastating but more so mentally. Some prefer it for the no responsibility and freedom approach but there is still more to it. Upkeep on the rv, gas, finding places to park, etc. I get the want to roam, but when I explore nothing beats coming home. I hope you find a solution that works the best for you

[(JD)]

Yep. I know that feeling. Strange thing is I want a bigger house if I have one. I downsized terribly to live closer to my mother, and kept the bigger house rented... but mom didn't die LOL that was a good thing...until 10 years had passed and here I am 6 more years later stuck.

I recall, after the devastating sense of loss of everything (even my spouse left) after Hurricane Andrew and how I didn't have "stuff" with which to contend and started out clean and new and empty... and at least with the possibility of going off the grid I have been giving stuff away (and trying consignment shops--- what a downer that is!) and maybe if I can open up my "storage" bedroom and clear out my study some... it will be a nice refuge? I'm not a clutterer in fact I'm a minimalist at heart...but the emotional ties to the things of my childhood...and beautiful clothes and things of my mom's... I took pictures of some and gave them away.. tons of stuff actually...

and of course in all this emotional turmoil I pray for my T to return to clinical work and help me regain my balance... a year... who would have thought I could live even with the modicum of sanity I have found?

But also, psychologically, the van would remove the heartbreak I hold (my error) that none of my sons' families have ever visited me any where I've lived... 2 sons... I texted them recently and of course their guilt put the blame on me said they never picked favorite parent but I reminded them of how they drive hundreds of miles to go fishing with him...and drive right by my home or come to Miami and never even call me.. I never spoke bad about their father, and now that I've tried to show them their behavior, it's my negativity again. Anyway...with a van they would have no reason to know where I was and therefore could not visit (even if they wanted to).

Yeah. I'm making plans but unless the money comes in for the van I guess I'm stuck here doing nothing but breathing and self care.

[(JD)]

I've talked to my attorney about some financial issues with worker comp... she's petitioning the court...

IF these things can be fixed that will free up money I can use to buy a van... and I found a FORD vehicle style that can be converted for about 1/3 the cost of RV and regular accessible vehicles.

I spoke to my PCA whose salary is part of the issue...and she says that if there's any hassle she can't take it and will have to quit.

I was like, well, if I can do this THIS way, I can keep the house --and you== otherwise I sell the house and won't need you... sigh. go figure.

The psychological relief of not having to make such a huge decision quickly is great...and also knowing I won't have to live in an RV unless I want to... well, until she quits

Might as well laugh now while I know I can, right?

[Thunder Bow]

Originally Posted by hvert

I do not live off the grid, but I do a lot of camping and have lived out of a car or backpack for months at a time for pleasure rather than necessity. I have friends who have lived in their cars in urban areas when they were homeless.

I am not sure that camping is less expensive than owning a small home in a lower-cost of living area. Free campsites are often difficult to get to, have no facilities, limit stays, and may be full when you get there. National Park campsites are expensive and crowded with inadequate bathroom facilities (imo). Private campgrounds that rent space by the month can get pretty pricey. While we were on our trip, we saw quite a few homeless families living at the KOA and it really surprised us given how expensive it was even at the monthly rate. If you qualify for a senior discount it's probably a lot less.

I think it's a great thing to do from a lifestyle point of view, but maybe about break-even from a COL standpoint. Maybe you could try it out for a week or two before you decide to sell your home?

Out west here, there is National Forest and BLM lands where one can camp for free. I always like to camp in undeveloped areas in the back country. At the Grand Canyon, I camp in the Kaibab National Forest just out side of the park boundery for free, in undeveloped areas. Off forest service roads. Only a 15min drive into the park, where I can eat, shop, shower and use WiFi. I do not like public campgrounds. One can avoid entrance fees by driving into the park on a back road.

Also when I need extra money for the car, I will camp on BLM lands near Spirit Mountain NV, in the winter months. It is free as well. It is just a 20mi drive down into town (Laughlin NV.) where can use WiFi, buy supplies, and eat.

These back country sites are safe and quiet, and I got the gear and vehicle to do it right.

[bobntom]

ive done thaty whole life up to a few yr sago and its horrible before u know it u cnt come back even if u want to