is there physiological testing for chemical imbalance?

largebluerock · Apr 06, 2018, 05:31 PM

hello! i am new to this forum. I joined as a first step toward taking my life back from anxiety, fatigue & negative thoughts.

I'm wondering if i can have any physiological tests done to meter where my dopamine/serotonin/norepinephrine are at? I'm addicted to nicotine gum but I'm thinking i should quit if these types of tests are available.

(i am planning to have my thyroid & hormones tasted as well, but i already know this is possible) i haven't seen much in my internet searches for neurotransmitter tests, though.

any insight into whether neurotransmitter tests are available? or if these tests would even be beneficial?

Thunder Bow · Apr 07, 2018, 12:53 PM

You seem to be very intelligent.

Wild Coyote · Apr 07, 2018, 03:09 PM

Hi LargeBlueRock,

Welcome to PC!

I am not aware of tests for neurotransmitters being available.

Great question!

WC

*Laurie* · Apr 07, 2018, 10:46 PM

No, there are no tests to determine the neurotransmission of brain chemistry. Not at this point, anyway.

Imaging (scans) are providing some information for researchers...for example, the brains of people with certain mental illnesses appear to be somewhat different than the brains of people without those disorders. But that type of imaging is in its infancy and is not used to determine diagnoses....not yet.

amandalouise · Apr 07, 2018, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by largebluerock

hello! i am new to this forum. I joined as a first step toward taking my life back from anxiety, fatigue & negative thoughts.

I'm wondering if i can have any physiological tests done to meter where my dopamine/serotonin/norepinephrine are at? I'm addicted to nicotine gum but I'm thinking i should quit if these types of tests are available.

(i am planning to have my thyroid & hormones tasted as well, but i already know this is possible) i haven't seen much in my internet searches for neurotransmitter tests, though.

any insight into whether neurotransmitter tests are available? or if these tests would even be beneficial?

yes there are tests to measure these things. they show up in blood work panels. here in america blood work is a normal routine part of seeing ones own medical doctor. Spinal taps are another test that these chemicals show up on, MRI's can also show a doctor how the brain is functioning and if the neuro transmitters/ receptors, are working correctly.

I have these tests frequently due to my having MS, and other medical and mental problems.

my suggestion is talk with your treatment providers, they can show you what a blood work panel is and what each of those letters stand for on the panels and which tests are the ones that show them how much of what chemicals are in your body, brain, spine and throughout your body.

largebluerock · 12:18 AM

i just stumbled on a video that claimed you can request an "organic acids panel" which is a urine test that can help determine dopamine levels. slowly but surely i'm moving forward in my quest to arm myself with information prior to blindly walking into a doctor's office for a pill!

thank you laurie! i would love to have an MRI done I've day.

Rose76 · Apr 08, 2018, 12:54 AM

Hi. Welcome to PC.

No, there are no such tests. If there were, I would have had them done long ago. Also, there is no proof that psychiatric difficulties are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. That's a theory - one that is being subjected to more and more criticism.

Here's an article that mentions urine testing of neurotransmitters:

https://bebrainfit.com/neurotransmitter-testing/

This article states that what is detected in urine might have nothing to do with what's in the brain.

largebluerock · Apr 08, 2018, 06:20 AM

hmmmm the ultra mind tests were very concerning. thank you....

*Laurie* · Apr 08, 2018, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amandalouise

yes there are tests to measure these things. they show up in blood work panels. here in america blood work is a normal routine part of seeing ones own medical doctor. Spinal taps are another test that these chemicals show up on, MRI's can also show a doctor how the brain is functioning and if the neuro transmitters/ receptors, are working correctly.

I have these tests frequently due to my having MS, and other medical and mental problems.

my suggestion is talk with your treatment providers, they can show you what a blood work panel is and what each of those letters stand for on the panels and which tests are the ones that show them how much of what chemicals are in your body, brain, spine and throughout your body.

Hi, I'm confused by your post. Are you saying that there are blood tests or scans to measure the amount of dopamine, serotonin, and other neurochemicals and that those test results can be used to determine which medications to take (if any)?

I'm confused because I have read and been told by pdocs that there are no such reliable tests yet available. Even the tests done for MS are not entirely dependable, as I understand it.

largebluerock · Apr 08, 2018, 07:30 PM

Laurie, i did some reading & it turns out that there are indeed tests that measure neurotransmitter amounts, but none that measure the amount your brain is actively utilizing at any given day/hour/moment. for instance, because 80-90 percent of your serotonin is made in the digestive tract, they can test whether or not your body is deficient of creating serotonin in the GI, & they can use this information (in addition to psychoanalysis) to determine if you may have a deficiency in the brain. but, it's difficult to determine if your body is allowing absorption into the brain. the tests aren't completely fool proof because they can't determine our reuptake, how much serotonin is being utilized, or whether or not we've got issues with too few receptor synapses.

amandalouise · Apr 08, 2018, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Laurie*

Hi, I'm confused by your post. Are you saying that there are blood tests or scans to measure the amount of dopamine, serotonin, and other neurochemicals and that those test results can be used to determine which medications to take (if any)?

I'm confused because I have read and been told by pdocs that there are no such reliable tests yet available. Even the tests done for MS are not entirely dependable, as I understand it.

yes there are blood tests and scan that measure the chemicals in the body including dopamine, serotonin GABA, lithium, zinc, iron, vitamins and minerals the whole works.

yes there are blood tests that tell doctors whether or not medication is needed, not which medications because medication is not a one size fits all situation, but here in america we have a vast range of medications including those that are called psychotropic medications. (medications for mental issues) But medical doctors have been trained to know how much of each chemical a normal body has. they are able to prescribe medications that will correct the difference between where a person should be vs how much of the chemicals a person does have.

yes there are spinal fluid tests that also show whether someone has a problem with brain or body chemicals that can affect a person in mental and physical ways.

there are even urine and spit tests that can tell a medical doctor when there is something wrong in the body's chemical make up.

yes there are brain scans that measure things like how the brain is functioning, whether or not the neurons/ receptors/ neuro tranmitters are working. some of these tests are very common like a person who has seizures goes through these tests like EEG's, MRI, CAT Scans to evaluate whether that persons brain is functioning correctly including how the neurons, receptor and transmitters are working.

my suggestion is the next time you see your medical doctor ask to see and have explained to you what blood work panels / labs / brain scans that they do order and for what. maybe they will even order them for you so that you can go through them. if so ask to see your scans. its really interesting with each part of the brain lit up in different colors, watching the neurons/ receptors, neuro transmitters working. I have them record mine so that after I get out from that noisy MRI machine. be sure to wear ear plugs when in that machine. EEG is also really interesting to have recorded and watch after the test is done.

you can also find these tests on youtube or any medical show on cable, or sometimes the tv show "the Doctors" talk about all the different kinds of blood tests and brain scans there are.

*Laurie* · Apr 09, 2018, 02:01 AM

All very interesting.

I have had a couple of brain scans (MRI's) in my adult life. I had one about 3 years ago. I've also had an EEG because of suspected seizure activity. None showed up, but the tech told me it's very difficult to detect seizure activity unless it actually occurs during the test.

I am guessing that the testing has everything to do with money. In other words, if basic blood work in done and comes out normal doctors don't usually go on to further testing. I know my insurance sure wouldn't allow it.

I'm still not convinced, though, about psych meds and brain chemistry. Being able to accurately measure neurochemicals certainly contradicts what every pdoc I've spoken with has told me...and that's a lot of pdocs.

amandalouise · Apr 12, 2018, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Laurie*

All very interesting.

I have had a couple of brain scans (MRI's) in my adult life. I had one about 3 years ago. I've also had an EEG because of suspected seizure activity. None showed up, but the tech told me it's very difficult to detect seizure activity unless it actually occurs during the test.

I am guessing that the testing has everything to do with money. In other words, if basic blood work in done and comes out normal doctors don't usually go on to further testing. I know my insurance sure wouldn't allow it.

I'm still not convinced, though, about psych meds and brain chemistry. Being able to accurately measure neurochemicals certainly contradicts what every pdoc I've spoken with has told me...and that's a lot of pdocs.

these kinds of tests are not done by a pdoc (psychiatrist), they are medical tests which medical doctors (physicians or as some people call them Primary Care Physician (PCP) order.

my suggestion is next time you go to your physician ask to see their paper containing all the different blood tests and labs that they can order and have them explain what each one is. each grouping (Panel) on the paper tests for different things like how much sugar is in the body, iron is in the body zinc, lead, electroliytes, carbon, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, bun, chloride, creatine, sodium, dopamine, bilirubin, phosphates, amino acids, seratonin, all kinds of vitamin and minerals tests and more. they can also explain which tests on the panels are spit tests, urine tests, blood, they can even tell you what your number of red and white blood cells in your body are and what these cells chemical make up are, shape and so on. its amazing the strides america has made in the medical field and technology machines can now do thanks to the digital era. by the way on the panels you will find seratonin listed as 5-hydroxytryptamine level (5-HT)

my own dopamine level thanks to my medications is 185.6pmol/l and my seratonin level is 120 ng/ml

amandalouise · Apr 12, 2018, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amandalouise

these kinds of tests are not done by a pdoc (psychiatrist), they are medical tests which medical doctors (physicians or as some people call them Primary Care Physician (PCP) order.

my suggestion is next time you go to your physician ask to see their paper containing all the different blood tests and labs that they can order and have them explain what each one is. each grouping (Panel) on the paper tests for different things like how much sugar is in the body, iron is in the body zinc, lead, electroliytes, carbon, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, bun, chloride, creatine, sodium, dopamine, bilirubin, phosphates, amino acids, seratonin, all kinds of vitamin and minerals tests and more. they can also explain which tests on the panels are spit tests, urine tests, blood, they can even tell you what your number of red and white blood cells in your body are and what these cells chemical make up are, shape and so on. its amazing the strides america has made in the medical field and technology machines can now do thanks to the digital era. by the way on the panels you will find seratonin listed as 5-hydroxytryptamine level (5-HT)

my own dopamine level thanks to my medications is 185.6pmol/l and my seratonin level is 120 ng/ml

forgot to add that dopamine is listed as "DA" and as "catecholamine" (dopamine, epinephrine and norepinephrine) on lab work panels.

Rose76 · Apr 12, 2018, 07:20 PM

Here's a good article: Are Mental Illnesses Caused by "Chemical Imbalances?" - Pete Earley

Excerpt:

"But there is no psychiatric disorder for which we know for certain which chemicals are “imbalanced” if any."