Legalization Debate

Poll:

How many of you think cocaine is legal in some contexts?

I don't trust anything that can kill you the first time you use it. Then again, as others have said, past experiences play a huge roll in how you feel about these things. My dad has openly told me about times he has used cocaine so I don't see any need to have it around period. My bf admitted to me that he had tried it and I couldn't even look him in the eye for a while after he told me that.

I haven't done much research on cocaine legality, but for me, it falls in the category of drugs that should NOT be made legal... I've heard some people say that they can use cocaine every once in a while, like at a party or something, and don't get hooked. But it, unlike marijuana, IS physically addicting, and there is little to nothing beneficial about cocaine. Far as I can tell, not much reason to have it around.

I haven't bothered to do the reading, and probably won't until I hear that someone is on the way to resolving the causation question.

It seems almost impossible to sort out whether people who are developing a mental illness are more likely to turn to drugs, or drug use promotes mental illness. Both may very well be true; or in some cases, neither.

I've seen some people report that a friend or relative with bipolar disorder seems to be triggering or aggravating their manic episodes by using marijuana. It's possible that that's the case; even so, it seems hard to rule out entirely...

-- that the person could be turning to marijuana to relieve their symptoms especially when they feel a manic episode coming on anyway, or

-- that the person has been under some pressure to maintain a sensible lifestyle and avoid marijuana, but once they start to get manic they're less inclined to cooperate with either.

I personally expect to find out (if I live long enough) that everything is connected to everything else, that marijuana use is both a cause and an effect of manic episodes, that so is forced marijuana deprivation, and that the only one able to sort out what happened will be (eventually) the recovered patient -- whose account will, of course, not be scientific enough to base any conclusions on.

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ETA: There's also this -- Bipolar Disorder and Marijuana Use -- which, as I'd expect, raises about as many questions as it answers.

Most drugs are legal (if prescribed by a doctor)

That's been an issue here in California, where state law allows medical marijuana but federal law doesn't. The cities have been trying to regulate marijuana dispensaries while the feds have sometimes raided them or gone after the licenses of the doctors involved.

Most of the drugs we've talked about in this thread (chocolate excepted ) can't legally be prescribed in the US.

Marijuana Use Can Up Psychosis Risk

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Play Video AP – Older patients turn to marijuana for relief

AFP/File – The longer people use cannabis or marijuana, the more likely they are to experience hallucinations or …

Sat Feb 27, 11:48 pm ET
SATURDAY, Feb. 27 (HealthDay News) -- Long-term use of marijuana can lead to increased risk of developing hallucinations, delusions and psychosis, a new study shows.

Australian researchers asked nearly 3,100 young adults averaging about 20 years of age about marijuana use. They found that almost 18 percent reported using the drug for three or fewer years, about 16 percent for four to five years, and just over 14 percent for six or more years.

Among the participants, 65 had been diagnosed with a "non-affective psychosis" such as schizophrenia, and 233 had at least one positive item for hallucination on a diagnostic interview conducted for the study.

The researchers found there was an association between length of marijuana use and mental health.

"Compared with those who had never used cannabis, young adults who had six or more years since first use of cannabis [i.e., who commenced use when around 15 years or younger] were twice as likely to develop a non-affective psychosis and were four times as likely to have high scores on the Peters et al Delusions Inventory [a measure of delusion]," wrote Dr. John McGrath, of the Queensland Centre for Mental Health Research, Park Centre for Mental Health in Wacol, and colleagues. "There was a 'dose-response' relationship between the variables of interest: the longer the duration since the first cannabis use, the higher the risk of psychosis-related outcomes."

The study appears online March 1 and in the May print issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry.

But the association between psychosis and marijuana use is not simple, the researchers noted. They found that people who'd experienced hallucinations earlier in life were also more likely to have used marijuana longer and to use it more frequently.

"This demonstrates the complexity of the relationship: those individuals who were vulnerable to psychosis [i.e., those who had isolated psychotic symptoms] were more likely to commence cannabis use, which could then subsequently contribute to an increased risk of conversion to a non-affective psychotic disorder," wrote the study authors.

Further research is needed to learn more about the mechanisms underlying the association between psychosis and marijuana use, they concluded.

Started reading this yesterday when it was still a 1 page thread, then 2 pages.
So I may now be repeating something already brought up. But here goes;

Legalization has it's pros & cons. Although from my own experiences, Doctors seem to be reluctant to prescribe goverment controlled marijuana even to people suffering from the effects of brain tumors due to cancer.

You would think that, in the stages of cancer and how they relate to symptoms of the cancer progressing into the brain, that to prescribe and allow a patient any possible relief, this would go without saying.

To move onto another aspect, The Law.

Incarceration of people is a money generating "business".
You have to assume somebody pays money to furnish upkeep of buildings, support staff, and maintenance of correctional facilities. Be it state or county.
And in formulating the amount of funds to be distributed at any one of these facilities you have to have a set number of factors.

Money paid to each accordingly to how many inmates are presently housed, would seem logical as a starting point. X amount of $ per day, per inmate.

Now the more laws you have on the books, the more possible ways to arrest and confine people, and generate the needed funds to run "this business".

At some point in time, the money crunchers must have found it would be more profitable to keep laws that are of a moral choice ( i.e. drugs and prostitution ), on the books as a way to generate monies, versus taxing these same activities.

Other countries in the world have taken the approach of licensing and taxing.

BTW, I am pro-legalization of anything that does No Harm, and is a personal (not forced upon) choice.

This is IMO.
dyzan.
~waves~

Straight from the CIA World Fact Book https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/us.html

So I didn't smoke weed the first year of college, then 2nd year I used it daily, mixed in with occasional use of cocaine. Which I would like to point out, I only did it when I was drinking, then you throw in an addrall or two....That lasted about a year, and mainly it was because I was manic, and not properly medicated. Anyways, back to what I was going to say....My grades were not affected by my drug use. In fact I graduated Summa Cum Laude from college....

It's all about how and why you use the drug. And yes if thc could be administered by pill form, I would sign up for the clinical trial. Personally, I use it to suppress some of the pain I am in daily. I never smoke before I go to work, because I even think that is wrong, and there's a dude in out dept that does it, but nobody has figured it out......back to the point, I only use it right when I get home at night, if I'm not going anywhere, just to take the edge off, then I can get some actual real work done.

Occassional use of mj is not likely to be a problem other then the health effects if smoked and the legal risks since it is illegal. Unless you use it 24-7 like I would when I was using or if I gave myself permission to use again because I have no self control.... it is not likely to have any negative mental health effects either. In most people. I know for me while it has some benefits in helping me manage anxiety and conquer insomnia over use definately messed with my mood.

Like anything it is a question of moderation. It is not okay to use it on the job because it does slow reaction times and one's thinking is easily distracted. I used to use while working. I run my own business and worked alone. While it helped me stay calm it meant everything took twice as long for me to do. I would edit and re-edit my writing twice as often as I would when I wasn't stoned.

Those around me would swear to their grave that my using triggered depression and or made the depression worse. It is a slipper slope because a little is medicine but a lot is poison.

I also think that if it were legalized that age restrictions should apply just like with cigs and alcohol because like any mind altering drug it should be a decision made by an adult not a child. Not to mention that the brain does not finish developing until the early 20's and as such any intoxicants will have a greated negative effect than those older.

Arguing that X is safer/better than Y does not make X okay! I'm reminded of when I'd complain to my mother that Susie Heinsheimer could do something I wasn't allowed to yet and my mother would reply, "Then go see if Mrs. Heinsheimer will adopt you!"

Everybody knows someone or is/has been someone who did well/ill with marijuana. But it's not good for one and at the moment, isn't legal. So what's the problem. Unfortunately candy is legal and if I buy it, I eat too much of it but I never got started with cigarettes, etc. because it wasn't legal and I didn't have any friends who smoked/did drugs. I can't see arguing for my "right" to something I don't have and don't "need".

The taxes on cigarettes at the moment are to make people less likely to pick up that habit and I think that's what most of the restraints/illegality on things is for; yes liquor is legal but I imagine most people who have a problem with it (and cigarettes, etc.) are those who were abusing it as teens and just "grew up" with their problem instead of addressing whatever their original problem was. If people don't smoke cigarettes or use drugs because it's too expensive, illegal, or difficult for them, thats okay with me, I don't care why they don't. I'm just glad they don't. Like I said, I love candy but if you outlaw sugar tomorrow, I won't protest and try to get it anyway.

So you'd rather sit by and watch as the government takes away one freedom after the other? True, no one NEEDS sugar, and no one NEEDS marijuana... I guess no one really NEEDS fast food either, or any other kind of unhealthy food made in restaurants, despite the fact that more and more people are unhealthily overweight. No one NEEDS to go to movie theaters or t.v. shows, despite the fact that many people spend so many hours of their lives immobile in front of these screens. No one really NEEDS the internet, despite the fact that more and more kids spend more time on facebook rather than go outside and get some physical activity. No one really NEEDS alcohol, despite the fact that alcoholism is still rampant throughout the world (Remember prohibition? Carry Nation anyone? Only now it's cannabis...). The list goes on. There are TONS of things in this world that we don't NEED, and that NUMEROUS people choose to abuse, but that's what freedom is. It's having the choice to do something, regardless of whether or not we NEED it. If everything in this society that we don't NEED was taken away, sure, we'd survive, but we'd all be pretty pissed off. Suppose the McDonald's franchise was shut down because they decided that too many people were overweight and they made the false assumption that EVERYONE is going to overeat themselves via McDonald's... It's kinda ridiculous. Though it's not like McDonald's is exactly healthy for you either.

Assuming that EVERYONE is going to abuse marijuana and immediately turn to cocaine afterward and then decide to drop out of society is just as ridiculous as outlawing sugar because too many kids have cavities. To continue the metaphor, without kids with cavities, what jobs would the dentists have? As I've said before, just think of all the job opportunities if cannabis sativa was made legal... (see my previous link about hemp). Here's another shorter one ---> http://environmentalism.suite101.com...ys_environment

Personally I think that obesity in this country is a bigger health problem than drugs are anymore. Type 2 diabetes is just as, if not more, controllable and preventable than things like lung cancer and emphysema but, like was stated, fast food isn't illegal.

I really hate it when fat people come up to me smoking and say "you know those things will kill you". I want to say "well so will all that extra weight around your midsection but I'm not sitting here lecturing you".

I just think that there are way worse things killing americans right now than smoking pot. 2 generations under me is the fattest generation ever. That's kinda sad. I see 10 yr old walking around with huge bellies who sit at home and play video games. Maybe if we gave them some weed they would laugh and burn off some of those calories. lol. (that sounded a lot meaner when I typed it than when I said it in my head)

More than likely, they'd get the munchies and eat even more... unless they were put on a strict diet that allowed them to ingest marijuana and refrain from eating when the munchies popped up. If you ever try working out while high, it's quite interesting. Definitely burn more calories that way...:P
But then again, I wouldn't ever recommend giving marijuana to 10 year olds.

But why should/do we have the freedom to smoke marijuana in the first place? Again, slippery slope. Legalize marijuana then people will start saying that the gouv. is stealing our freedom to use other drugs. The line has to be drawn somewhere... I draw it with marijuana.

That's where the issue lies: people automatically associate marijuana with harmful drugs such as cocaine, heroin, meth, etc. My first point in this thread was that marijuana should NOT be clumped together with these drugs. Marijuana, when used or smoked, is in plant form. Cocaine, meth, etc, all these have been chemically altered for their current use, and all of these are physically addicting. Marijuana is NOT in any way physically addicting, and it is not even REMOTELY near as harmful. If it was legalized, more research could be done on it to find more medicinal uses from it; the same cannot be said for said other drugs. People are refusing to see the potential benefits of its legalization, simply because this society DOES clump it together with other drugs, when it shouldn't be in the first place.

I feel like I'm repeating myself yet again... It would be much simpler for everyone involved if people would actually READ what we've been discussing so far so we don't have to repeat the same points over and over...

Why smoke it? There are a number of reasons people can give to smoke it. It depends on the person. Some people find it a relaxing way to end a stressful week. Some people enjoy getting together with friends to smoke. (assuming they're all adults of course; legalizing cannabis does not mean children should be allowed to smoke it) For people with anorexia, it improves appetite (munchies, lol...). For terminally ill people who are in constant physical pain, they find that smoking or ingesting it helps ease pain (and not to sound cruel, but they're terminally ill, so it's not like they're gambling with their life or anything; but then, that could be implying that smoking marijuana is like playing russian roulette for one's life, which is most definitely not the case... this would be definitely true with crack or heroin, however). For the creative types, it makes finding inspiration for one's craft a satisfying task (I can most certainly attest to this). For the spiritual enlightenment seekers, it makes meditating and/or self-reflecting likewise a satisfying, not to mention eye-opening, task. I've had many epiphanies under the influence, epiphanies which have lead me to make decisions for myself for the better; that does not mean, however, that one should rely on it, but then, it's the person's choices that are at fault, not the plant itself. The list of reasons to smoke goes on...

Why does anyone smoke cigarettes? Or drink alcohol? Both of these are undoubtedly 10x worse than smoking cannabis, yet both are legal, and yet both most likely do not provide the same eye-opening experiences that cannabis can... ("cannabis can", lol for alliterations...:P) You never see people die from marijuana overdose. The statistics are low for marijuana-related deaths on the road, but just because it'd be legal doesn't mean we'd allow people to drive under the influence. Regulation, people, regulation...

Lived all my life in California.....grew up & socialized with people who smoked pot....but always had such horrible problems with bronchitis & asthma from smoke that it really bothered me......so I never smoked it myself.

The funny thing was that I was in the hospital 5 years ago with anorexia that was a reaction to the stress I was going through. I couldn't eat or drink anything made me so sick.....it was horrible & ended up anemic......while in the hospital they did every test in the book to make sure it wasn't anything physical (I was in the hospital for a month). Had Dr's in & out of my room. They gave me the antinausiz med they give for cancer & even that didn't seem to help....one Dr came in one day & told me they were going to presribe marajuana to help with my appetite.....I just had to laugh at that one. They never went through with it, but it was being looked at as a possibility.

I know there are some good reasons for it if it's used medically. I don't know how much truth there is in that I have been told about the new town I moved to, but with all the woods we have here, they have so many illegal drugs being grown including pot. The local government thought they would make some money off the drugs they conficated & took them down to the drug lords in Florida.....who didn't let them off very easy....ended up being forced to bring harder drugs back to the area in risk of danger to their families. hmmmmm not sure of the validity of this, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least......we have more drug busts in this tiny town than all the huge cities I lived in in California......along with the meth labs.

I may live in a tiny town in comparison, but I make sure that I lock up my house all the time......not safe to be here alone....why I feel safer with my 6 doggies. This is one of the reasons why the pot is considered a gateway is that one gets it from the drug dealers who are really pushing the harder more expensive drugs for their own habits.....not that the drug itself causes you to desire stronger drugs.

Very interesting thread......has been very fascinating reading...thank you all for such wonderful information....enjoyed reading all.

It's a bit rude to accuse people who don't share your point of view of not having read previous posts. I think it's an important point so I mention it again. You asked readers for their opinions... that's my opinion.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/ResearchRep...a/default.html

Ok, yes, good point. The fact that people categorize marijuana with these harmful drugs is the basis of many people's fear of the plant, and you're right, it is a point worth mentioning again.
And I didn't make the assumption simply because you don't share my point of view; the fact that I did have to repeat myself in answer to your question lead me to assume you didn't bother to read my previous posts, but I guess it was a faulty assumption. My apologies for being so rude...

In response to this, the fact that marijuana is 5x more potent today is a good thing. People like to use large numbers in statistics to scare their readers :P.
Marijuana being 5x more potent means that it has more THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol. This, along with a variety of other canniboid hallucinogens and intoxicants, are what cause the user to feel "high". The greater the THC, the less marijuana it takes to get one high. What's harmful about smoking marijuana is that it's SMOKED, and anything you smoke is bad for you, period. So what's good about having greater THC content? The more THC in marijuana, the less that needs to be smoked, which means less smoke in the lungs. And for heavy pot smokers, this can really add up.

And yes, marijuana can be PSYCHOLOGICALLY ADDICTING, as in HABIT FORMING. But NO NO NO, it is NOT PHYSICALLY ADDICTING. PERIOD.
"For a drug to be physically addictive, it must be reinforcing, produce withdrawal symptoms, and produce tolerance. Marijuana is reinforcing, because it feels good, but it does not do the other two things. Caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are all physically addictive."
http://abovetheignorance.org/faq.html#a20
"physical dependence: substance dependence in which there is evidence of tolerance, withdrawal, or both"
http://http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Physical+addiction

the answer, drum roll please








"Cocaine has a number of legitimate medical uses. It is used as a topical anesthetic for eye and ear surgery. It is also used in a concoction called Brompton's Cocktail. Brompton's Cocktail is a mixture of morphine, cocaine, vodka, and cherry syrup. It is given to cancer patients."

When I was a paramedic a guy came into the ED that had a single GSW to the head. The ED physician used cocaine to numb his nasal membranes so he could assess the injury.

Really? Wow, I didn't know there were actual benefits to using cocaine... not that I'm gonna go out and start snorting, lol...

Yeah most people don't know cocaine can be used medically. I thought I would toss that idea into this thread because if marijuana were legalized we would then be able to do research studies and perhaps it could reduce suffering in some ill patients more than it is currently being used.

Just to clarify my opinion - I do not believe cocaine should ever be used recreationally. One of my patients as a critical care nurse was a twenty-two year old male who had snorted cocaine and it caused his coronary arteries to spasm which blocked oxygen to his heart. He did not respond to drugs that vasodilate and he had a massive heart attack and died.

I'd have to agree with you. Recreational cocaine use hardly ever ends well; but if it has medicinal value, why not use it for this reason and this reason only?

like I said, this is the first I'm hearing about this, so I probably won't have much to offer on the subject of cocaine use...

A bit of history: