Where Did The Toads Go?

Hippie · Jul 17, 2010, 08:07 AM

Not sure where to ask an environmental question, so moderator feel free to move this to wherever.
Okay, so every Spring, without fail, small,tiny toads would cover the back of our property from our porch out to the creek. You had to walk carefully so you would not step on them. This would go on for a couple of weeks and then the toads would disappear into the hedge rows. NOT this year. No toads. Not a single one. After decades of this annual toad march. suddenly nothing. Why?
The same thing goes for the snakes. In June the garter snakes would be visible in the stone walls around the property. The racers would be out by the creek and the black rat snakes by the out buildings. Now, snakes freak me out so the lack of them at first was a blessing. I wasn't screaming as often. However, it is eerie that they too aren't around this year. Why?
As far as i know, there has not been any mass spraying of insecticide in this area and the water in the creek looks normal, though I haven't tested it.
Oh, also had all the butternut trees on the edge of the woods up and die. These are old, large trees.
Anyone have similar, oddities going on? It's like I need a Rachel Carson to explain this to me.

Naturefreak · Jul 17, 2010, 08:25 AM

Haven't seen a one either Hippie.

Jul 17, 2010, 08:27 AM

Well, I am no Rachel Carson

In fact, I am Mandie M(or H, depending if i use my birth or adopted name lol).

But, I can try to explain this to you!

We used to have the same thing. Every spring rain they were everywhere. In fact, we used to stage "save the frogs" rescues at the main intersection in our village - I remember there being at least 50 kids at a time at points, stopping the cars to save the frogs. Luckily because this is such a small town, it was just accepted, and people were very patient about it, and I can even remember police cars being parked nearby to help with the safety of said rescues so that the kids were not stopping cars on their own. If someone was in a truly big hurry, there was a short detour that only took about an extra 30 seconds to drive so I think thats why it was so easily accepted. We would often make signs and everything and the kids would collect all of the toads in the intersection and then let the cars come through. There is a swampy area right beside the intersection, and I suspect thats why we found so many right in that area. I am sure lots of poor toadies were dying in other roads in the village but we focused on the intersection.

The type of frog you are thinking of could be of several varieties, and could in fact, be a frog OR a toad. What state are you located in? This will help me narrow down what you have locally and I can probably point you in the direction of photos of it so you can make an educated guess. Without being there though theres really no way for me to identify, as this phenomenon happens with alot of species, and not even just frogs!

Here is what Wikipedia has on the subject:

Quote:

Raining animals

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Rain of fish in Singapore, as described by local inhabitants

Raining animals is a rare meteorological phenomenon, although occurrences have been reported from many countries throughout history. One hypothesis that has been offered to explain this phenomenon is that strong winds travelling over water sometimes pick up creatures such as fish or frogs, and carry them for up to several miles.[1] However, this primary aspect of the phenomenon has never been witnessed or scientifically tested.
The animals most likely to drop from the sky in a rainfall are fish, frogs and birds, in that order. Sometimes the animals survive the fall, especially fish, suggesting the animals are dropped shortly after extraction. Several witnesses of raining frogs describe the animals as startled, though healthy, and exhibiting relatively normal behavior shortly after the event. In some incidents, however, the animals are frozen to death or even completely encased in ice. There are examples where the product of the rain is not intact animals, but shredded body parts. Some cases occur just after storms having strong winds, especially during tornadoes.
However, there have been many unconfirmed cases in which rainfalls of animals have occurred in fair weather and in the absence of strong winds or waterspouts.
Rains of animals (as well as rains of blood or blood-like material, and similar anomalies) play a central role in the epistemological writing of Charles Fort, especially in his first book, The Book of the Damned. Fort collected stories of these events and used them both as evidence and as a metaphor in challenging the claims of scientific explanation.
The English language idiom "it is raining cats and dogs" (As well as its Swiss-German equivalent, "Raining frogs and snakes"), referring to a heavy downpour, is of uncertain etymology, and there is no evidence that it has any connection to the "raining animals" phenomenon.
Contents

[hide]

[edit] Explanations

Tornadoes may lift up animals into the air and deposit them miles away.

French physicist André-Marie Ampère was among the first scientists to take seriously accounts of raining animals. He tried to explain rains of frogs with a hypothesis that was eventually refined by other scientists. Speaking in front of the Society of Natural Sciences, Ampère suggested that at times frogs and toads roam the countryside in large numbers, and that the action of violent winds can pick them up and carry them great distances.[2]
More recently, a scientific explanation for the phenomenon has been developed that involves waterspouts. Waterspouts are capable of capturing objects and animals and lifting them into the air. Under this theory, waterspouts or tornados transport animals to relatively high altitudes, carrying them over large distances. The winds are capable of carrying the animals over a relatively wide area and allow them to fall in a concentrated fashion in a localized area.[3] More specifically, some tornadoes can completely suck up a pond, letting the water and animals fall some distance away in the form of a rain of animals.[4]
This hypothesis appears supported by the type of animals in these rains: small and light, usually aquatic.[5] It is also supported by the fact that the rain of animals is often preceded by a storm. However the theory does not account for how all the animals involved in each individual incident would be from only one species, and not a group of similarly-sized animals from a single area.

Doppler Image from Texas showing the collision of a thunderstorm with a group of bats in flight. The color red indicates the animals flying into the storm.

In the case of birds, storms may overcome a flock in flight, especially in times of migration. The image to the right shows an example where a group of bats is overtaken by a thunderstorm.[6]. The image shows how the phenomenon could take place in some cases. In the image, the bats are in the red zone, which corresponds to winds moving away from the radar station, and enter into a mesocyclone associated with a tornado (in green). These events may occur easily with birds in flight. In contrast, it is harder to find a plausible explanation for rains of terrestrial animals; the enigma persists despite scientific studies.
Sometimes, scientists have been incredulous of extraordinary claims of rains of fish. For example, in the case of a rain of fish in Singapore in 1861, French naturalist Francis de Laporte de Castelnau explained that the supposed rain took place during a migration of walking catfish, which are capable of dragging themselves over the land from one puddle to another.[7] Thus, he argued that the appearance of fish on the ground immediately after a rain was easily explained, as these animals usually move over soft ground or after a rain.
[edit] Occurrences

The following list is a selection of examples.
[edit] Fish

1555 engraving of rain of fish

Singapore, February 22, 1861[8]
Olneyville, Rhode Island, May 15, 1900[9]

Bhanwad, Jamnagar, India, Oct 24, 2009[10]

Lajamanu, Northern Territory, Australia, February 25 and 26, 2010,[11]

Marksville, Louisiana, October 23, 1947[12]

[edit] Frogs and toads

Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan, June 2009 (Occurrences reported throughout the month)[13]
Rákóczifalva, Hungary, 18-20 June 2010 (two times)[14]

[edit] Others

An unidentified animal (thought to be a cow) fell in California ripped to tiny pieces on August 1, 1869; a similar incident was reported in Olympian Springs, Bath County, Kentucky in 1876[15]
Jellyfish fell from the sky in Bath, England, in 1894[16]
Worms dropped from the sky in Jennings, Louisiana, on July 11, 2007.[17]
Spiders fell from the sky in Salta Province, Argentina on April 6, 2007.[18]

[edit] In literature and popular culture

The Judeo Christian Bible, in the book of Exodus, lists raining frogs as one of the plagues sent by God to encourage the Pharaoh to release the slaves of Egypt.
Raining animals are relatively common in Terry Pratchett's Discworld. The explanation given is magical weather. One small village in the mountainous, landlocked Ramtops operates a successful fish cannery due to regular rains of fish.[19] The Ommnian religion includes several accounts of religious figures being saved by miraculous rains of animals, one being an elephant.[20] Other items include bedsteads, cake and tinned sardines.[21]
Fish fell from the sky in Kafka on the Shore by Haruki Murakami.
In the Red Dwarf episode Confidence and Paranoia, fish rain in Lister's sleeping quarters.
Raining frogs are shown in the 1999 New Line Cinema movie, Magnolia. Frogs, and a gun, raining down causing havoc on drivers and commuters alike.
In the role-playing game The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, the player can do an optional quest given by Sheogorath, the Daedric Prince of Madness, which involves playing a prank on a small, peaceful-yet-superstitious village. The player is told to perform certain actions that will fulfill a prophecy within the village that is believed to herald the end of the world, thus causing all of the villagers to panic. The final event foretold in the prophecy is flaming dogs raining from the sky, which, unlike the other events of the prophecy, is achieved by the Daedra Lord himself and his powers.
A sperm whale and a bowl of petunias were called into existence above the alien planet Magrathea in Douglas Adams' novel, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The whale had only moments to come to terms with its new identity and purpose during the ultimately fatal plummet to Magrathea's surface. The bowl of petunias had been in similar situations before.
The character Cris Johnson in the film Next relates as fact that fish eggs were re-hydrated after being evaporated from the ocean near Denmark, resulting in a rain of fish.
John Hodgman's satirical almanac More Information Than You Require makes references to multiple events involving raining animals.
The short story 'Rainy Season' by Stephen King from the collection Nightmares and Dreamscapes is about frogs with sharp teeth falling from the sky.
In the 2010 film, Wonderful World, Ben Singer (played by Matthew Broderick), experiences raining fish at the end of the film, while in Senegal. His close friend Ibu had told him about the phenomenon earlier in the film.

[edit] "Raining cats and dogs"

A 19th-century English cartoon illustrating the phrase "it is raining cats and dogs" (and "pitchforks" too)

The English idiom "it is raining cats and dogs", used to describe an especially heavy rain, is of unknown etymology, and is not necessarily related to the "raining animals" phenomenon.[22] The phrase (with "polecats" instead of "cats") was used at least since the 17th century.[23][24] A number of improbable folk etymologies have been put forward to explain the phrase,[25] for example:

An "explanation" widely circulated by email claimed that in 16th-century Europe when peasant homes were commonly thatched, animals could crawl into the thatch and find shelter from the elements, and would fall out during heavy rain. However, there seems to be no evidence in support of either assertion.[26]
Drainage systems on buildings in 17th century Europe were poor, and may have disgorged their contents during heavy showers, including the corpses of any animals that had accumulated in them. This occurrence is documented in Johnathan Swift's 1710 poem 'Description of a City Shower', in which he describes "Drowned puppies, stinking sprats, all drenched in mud,/Dead cats and turnip-tops come tumbling down the flood."
"Cats and dogs" may be a corruption of the Greek word Katadoupoi, referring to the waterfalls on the Nile,[22] possibly through the old French word catadupe ("waterfall").
The Greek phrase "kata doksa", which means "contrary to expectation" is often applied to heavy rain, but there is no evidence to support the theory that it was borrowed by English speakers.[22]

There may not be a logical explanation; the phrase may have been used just for its nonsensical humor value, like other equivalent English expressions ("it is raining pitchforks", "hammer handles", etc.).
Other languages have equally bizarre expressions for heavy rain:[27][28]

French: il pleut des hallebardes ("it is raining halberds"), clous ("nails"), or cordes ("ropes")
Afrikaans: ou vrouens met knopkieries reen ("old women with clubs")
Czech: padají trakaře ("wheelbarrows")
Danish: det regner skomagerdrenge ("shoemakers' apprentices")
Dutch: het regent pijpestelen ("pipe stems")
Dutch (Flemish): het regent oude wijven ("old women")
Dutch (Flemish): het regent kattenjongen ("kittens")
German: junge Hunde ("young dogs")
Greek: βρέχει καρεκλοπόδαρα ("chair legs")
Irish: tá sé ag caitheamh sceana gréasaí ("cobblers knives")
Norwegian: det regner trollkjerringer ("she-trolls")
Polish: pada żabami ("frogs")
Portuguese: está a chover canivetes ("penknives")
Romanian: plouă cu broaşte ("frogs")
Spanish: está lloviendo chuzos ("shortpikes")
Serbian: padaju sekire ("axes")
Bosnian: padaju ćuskije ("crowbars").
Welsh: mae hi'n bwrw hen wragedd a ffyn ("old ladies and sticks")
Bangla: "মুষলধারে বৃষ্টি পড়ছে" "mushaldhare brishti poRchhe" ("rain drops are like clubs)

[edit] See also

Lluvia de Peces, (Honduras, "Rain of Fishes")
Exploding animals
Magnolia
The Fortean Times
"It's Raining Men"
Red rain in Kerala
Star jelly
Cattle mutilation
Blood rain

[edit] References

^ How can it rain fish?
^ «Les pluies de crapauds» (French).
^ Supernatural World uses this theory to explain a rain of fishes in Norfolk on August 8, 2000.
^ Orsy Campos Rivas includes this explanation in the article Lo que la lluvia regala a Yoro, which discusses a rain of fishes that occurs annually in Honduras. Hablemos online(Spanish)
^ Angwin, Richard Wiltshire weather - BBC, July 15, 2003
^ Bat-eating Supercell, National Weather Service, (March 19, 2006).
^ Comptes Rendus hebdomadaires des séances de l’Académie des sciences 52:880-81, 1861 (French).
^ McAtee, Waldo L. (May 1917). "Showers of Organic Matter". Monthly Weather Review 45 (5): 223. http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/...45-05-0217.pdf. Retrieved 2009-01-26.
^ "Rained Fish", AP report in the Lowell (Mass.) Sun, May 16, 1900, p4
^ "Fish Rain", reported in the India : [1], Oct 24, 2009
^ "It's raining fish in Northern Territory", reported in news.com.au : [2], February 28, 2010
^ Greg Forbes. Spooky Weather. The Weather Channel. Posted: October 27, 2005
^ Demetriou, Danielle (2009-06-10). "Sky 'rains tadpoles' over Japan". Telegraph.co.uk. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ver-Japan.html. Retrieved 2009-08-07.
^ "Szemtanúk szerint békaeső hullott a településre". szoljon.hu. 2010-06-21. http://szoljon.hu/jasz-nagykun-szoln...pulesre-312385. Retrieved 2010-06-21.
^ Fort, Charles (1919). "Ch. 4". The Book of the Damned. sacred-texts.com. pp. 44–6. http://www.sacred-texts.com/fort/damn/damn04.htm.
^ Fort, Charles (1919). "Ch. 4". The Book of the Damned. sacred-texts.com. p. 48. http://www.sacred-texts.com/fort/damn/damn04.htm.
^ "Worms Fall from the Sky in Jennings". WAFB Channel 9. 7 July 2007. http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=6771977. Retrieved 12 December 2008.
^ "It's Raining Spiders!". Epoch Times. 6 April 2007. http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-10-12/60694.html. Retrieved 27 April 2010.
^ Pratchett, Terry (1997). The Discworld Companion. Books Britain. p. 319. ISBN 0575600306.
^ Pratchett, Terry (1998). Jingo. London: Corgi. pp. 252–3. ISBN 055214598X.
^ Pratchett, Terry (1998). Jingo. London: Corgi. p. 241. ISBN 055214598X.
^ a b c Raining Cats and Dogs, Anatoly Liberman
^ Richard Brome (1652), The City Witt: "It shall rain dogs and polecats."
^ Robert Laurence, Raining Cats And Dogs. Accessed on 2009-07-28.
^ "Life in the 1500s". Snopes.com. 2007. http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/1500.asp.
^ Raining cats and dogs at The Phrase Finder site. Accessed on 2009-07-28.
^ WordReference.com Language Forums, accessed on 2009-07-28.
^ It's raining cats and dogs at Omniglot.com. Accessed through Google's cache on 2009-07-28.

[edit] External references

I will be back with more info, Im installing a new program and it needs me to close my browser. Take a look at that for now!

Hippie · Jul 17, 2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbowzz

Well, I am no Rachel Carson

In fact, I am Mandie M(or H, depending if i use my birth or adopted name lol).

But, I can try to explain this to you!

We used to have the same thing. Every spring rain they were everywhere. In fact, we used to stage "save the frogs" rescues at the main intersection in our village - I remember there being at least 50 kids at a time at points, stopping the cars to save the frogs. Luckily because this is such a small town, it was just accepted, and people were very patient about it, and I can even remember police cars being parked nearby to help with the safety of said rescues so that the kids were not stopping cars on their own. If someone was in a truly big hurry, there was a short detour that only took about an extra 30 seconds to drive so I think thats why it was so easily accepted. We would often make signs and everything and the kids would collect all of the toads in the intersection and then let the cars come through. There is a swampy area right beside the intersection, and I suspect thats why we found so many right in that area. I am sure lots of poor toadies were dying in other roads in the village but we focused on the intersection.

The type of frog you are thinking of could be of several varieties, and could in fact, be a frog OR a toad. What state are you located in? This will help me narrow down what you have locally and I can probably point you in the direction of photos of it so you can make an educated guess. Without being there though theres really no way for me to identify, as this phenomenon happens with alot of species, and not even just frogs!

Here is what Wikipedia has on the subject:

I will be back with more info, Im installing a new program and it needs me to close my browser. Take a look at that for now!

Well, the toads didn't rain from the sky. They just hopped out of the woods. Guess they were boring toads but now they are gone.

wanttoheal · Jul 17, 2010, 09:05 AM

Maybe you can get your soil tested, in your yard and near the trees? In this day and age, it's hard to say what could have caused it, but might be worth it to test to make sure the area is safe. It could simply be a lack of food for them as well.

We used to live in an area where there were mutated bunnies. They were like that because of some insecticide that was used years before. Horrible stuff.

Jul 17, 2010, 09:06 AM

Aww. Dont be sad! And I will be back with more info on the subject, I promise!

Specifically though these tiny toads are said to appear from this phenomena, which is why I added that. More to come!

Perna · Jul 17, 2010, 09:53 AM

I think animals have cycles; we didn't have any squirrels a couple years ago and I have seen no deer in the last couple years. We usually have 1-3 toads too but haven't seen any myself; probably the heat this year has changed things. We have rabbits but not in the usual places (I'm a veteran rabbit counter, can usually get 3-6 on the way into our development in the evenings) or numbers and a ground hog just appeared a couple days ago and yet seems gone again now. I'd never seen a ground hog on this property.

There's a field where there are normally herds of deer but haven't seen any the last year or two but my son and daughter-in-law's house, last time we went to babysit the grandkids, they're in a very routine suburb and there was herd of deer, 7 or 8 in their small backyard (an hour away). This is "my" toad from a couple years ago.

Where Did The Toads Go?

perpetuallysad · Jul 17, 2010, 10:16 AM

Hmm, I am a huge frog/toad lover myself and am always trying to create an environment in my yard where all bugs and creatures can live safely. I have seen toads this year, but not so many of the small green tree frogs and the lizards we usually have and I am thinking it is a combination of the extremely cold winter we had (for Mississippi standards) followed quickly by a hot spring and now ever hotter summer. It is very dry here now and the only time I see the toads is when I move something that generally stays wettish or in the thickest part of my garden spots where it is really shady (and I suspect, wetter) than anywhere else. Temperature and chemicals can really effect amphibians like frogs and toads. If you go down to the creek area and look around rocks and wet leaves, you may still find the toads, they just may not venture too far away from the water right now.

I hope they come back next year.

ECHOES · Jul 17, 2010, 10:31 AM

I would be curious about the health of the creek....

eskielover · Jul 17, 2010, 11:09 AM

I was thinking along the same lines as echoes.......wondering if there is any pollution that is new to the stream that hadn't been there before. Even if it's ground water fed, there may be something that is contaminating it to make the tadpoles die , thus, no frogs/toads, & dead trees.

It is so sad when our environment gets messed up. Humans can be so very destructive.

It may also be a change in weather patterns that can have an effect. I know that for several years in a row, we ended up with a drought right after I moved into my farm.....water was almost gone in the creek that runs in back of my farm. There were more deer in my woods, that came to eat what little grass I had, but they weren't there long. We have an extension office that is tied to the University & if you have anything like that in your area, you might talk with them & see if they know anything or may come out & test the water & the ground in your area.

Just a few thoughts & suggestions. I know how important the little creatures are that we are used to having & when they come up missing, it's a real sad feeling.

The one thing I don't miss that hit me the second year after I moved in were the 17 year cicadas.....they covered everything for about 3 months during the summer. They only come out every 17 years & when they do, the noise & the bother of them swarming around when doing anything out in the yard was horrible. They thought the sound of my lawn tractor was something to mate with I guess as they swarmed me so bad, I couldn't even mow my lawn that summer....yick.

Maybe there is a cycle thing that 's going on with the frogs/toads also....something you might look into depending on what species they are.

With nature there are so many possibilities.

Hippie · Jul 17, 2010, 11:21 AM

Testing the creek is a good idea. I can phone the cooperative extension on Monday and see if they do water testing. Maybe they do.
The toads were in the hundreds and were here for decades no matter if we had a wet or dry spring so maybe your suggestions to focus on the water is the way to go. That does make sense seeing as the trees are also by the water. hmmm. Think I'll put on some long pants (ticks still around) and check around the rocks in the creek.
Thanks. Will check on the lizard population while I'm there.

Hippie · Jul 17, 2010, 01:26 PM

Update:

If one wants to get near the creek, one has to be immune to flying biting insects.

The mosquitoes are alarming. So much for my foray into looking under rocks.
It's waiting till Monday then, and a phone call to the extension office.

Rhiannonsmoon · Jul 17, 2010, 08:50 PM

Hello Hippie,

Has there been any fluroide added to the water in your area? Fluoride is poison and is a by product of fecal fertilisers (this is why it shouldn't be added to the water supply). I only drink purified or filtered living water because of this issue.

There is also the problem of ammonia nitride from fertilisers making water hazardous and too much of it will rot trees from the inside out until they just die; this has happened all around a particular farming area near here where I live.

The mozzie problem is probably because the frogs and toads are no longer there to feed on them. I remember reading in Mandies post I think it was that they have cycles, this is true and when there is a lack of water or water is poisoned they stave off breeding cycles too.

They could also have found a more suitable place to breed...though I think your place sounds perfect.

Many years ago I read an almanac type book that foretold of this happening for years after that I would spend hours in the brooks and water courses to make sure the frogs were there...until the avoidant overtook the obsessive (now they have even power lol). We only need to worry when the butterflies stop breeding and the birds go away...but isn't it terribly sad that this has happened at all?

Maybe trying to find some spawn in another area and relocating it to your place might help? There's always boys who love looking for and collecting frog spawn....

Keep us posted on what happens there, this is really interesting,

Rhiannon

eskielover · Jul 18, 2010, 11:54 AM

Ugh, the ticks never go away no matter what else does. We go out trail riding in the country. The horses always end up with a couple of ticks on them. My dogs even though I spray them end up bringing ticks into my house. I found one crawling on a notebook I was looking through the other night. Last year, I found one on the heating pad & was planning on using & last Sunday, I actually found one on my leg, it was just starting to bite. I had never seen a tick before I moved to Kentucky. The guy from land management was at my farm & had one crawling on him...it wasn't until after he showed me what they look like that I kept seeing them after that.

Oh, funny you mentioned lizzards. Yesterday, when I walked down to my front room, I noticed something that looked like a stick on my frontroom floor. Then I realized it was in the shape of a lizzard. I went back to check on it & sure enough....beautiful little lizzard with a blewish tail. I tried to catch him, but he evaded me. Guess if he got in my house, there is a way for him to get out just like the mice.....lol.

Try using OFF or one of those sprays that keep the ticks & mosquitoes off. They really do work well

Country living is so wonderful, but there are so many concerns

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