[lynn P.]

A 13 yr old girl at my oldest daughters school last week, abruptly changed schools. At 1st I thought the family is moving. The next day my daughter said she saw a bunch of boys huddled around each other looking at something. She later asked one of the boys and he said they were looking at totally nude pictures of that girl. At 1st I thought this is just a bad rumor.

A weeks gone by and now she's hearing the police are involved and several boys have been brought down by their parents for questioning. Apparently the girl took completely nude pics and sent them to one boy and he sent them to other boys. I haven't spoke to an adult for 100% confirmation but this looks like it's not a rumor.

The schools start reminding kids about internet safety and it's common sense not to give out naked pictures. This girl comes from a middle/upper class family. It's obvious some kids aren't getting enough guidance and given too much freedom with the internet. I've seen this girl since she was in junior kindergarten class - such a sad thing. Since the kids are 13 I don't think they can be charged as a juvenile.

[SlatkaMala]

How awful. Kids just don't get how their foolish actions can cause so much trouble. Keep us posted on what happens.

[lonegael]

Some young girls think that showing off their developing bodies is a sign that they are "grown up" and aren't "ashamed" of themselves. Thye aren't aware of how teenaged boys react and handle that type of intimation. Here when a boy who get s that from a girl friend sends that type of thing on it is seen as spreading child pornography, so I tell my son to either give it to me and I will contact the police if he gets one of those sent to me, or delete it IMMEDIATELY. He is NOT to send it on, and he is to make sure his friends know that it is against the law in Sweden. Problem is, kids can take them spread them, and never have to even see each others' faces when they do, it's so detatched. Normally, I don't think my son's friends would dare try to show him something like that if it were a girl they knew, he'd rip their head off, and if it were a girl they didn't, he'd be embarrassed if they were face to face.

[Skully]

OMG how awefull!!!! I hate to say it but that girl should have known better. But it was totally wrong for that boy to spread around those pictures. It is horrible what kids will do to each other....how did our society get so mean to each other?!!!!!

[Fresia]

It is unimaginable all the way around. What on earth were any of them thinking, the children's actions and what had the parents taught them?! Were they not monitoring them? I have read other reports of this going on and it truly frightens and saddens me.

I worry for all the kids and my niece is 11 now. She has had an internet account and so far so good but we are vigilant. However she got a camera for her birthday and is excited about sharing her photos with her friends. I can only hope that the talks, rules, and guidance we have given her will hold. Also that she will know not to participate and stand against such things should they happen. How do you know as a parent/caregiver what you have said and done will sink in? How? This I worry about too. Things were so less complicated when all I had were pets.

[pachyderm]

On the other hand...

Things that would seem rather innocent in other societies, at least in the past, are now treated as monstrous and frightening events. Yes there are dangers, but you cannot expect children really to have the same perception about that as adults. And in part they may be rebelling against the restrictions and controlling atmosphere that they see, without knowing why. A less than healthy society makes things difficult for young people.

And I think that treating things such as this as overwhelming disasters may make them more problematic to resolve, than if you said "OK, we have a problem, let's see how to resolve it without blowing it up into something unmanageable"...

[seeker1950]

The past two weeks I have been doing a unit on "Cybersafety" with my 6th grade advisory class. We just did a lesson on this very kind of thing.
I emphasized to them that once it's out there on the internet, it's out of their control, and, likewise, sending on cellular phones.
By their responses, you can actually identify the kids who have been given guidance and had limits set, vs. those who are given no guidance regarding the use of the Internet as well as cell phones.

[lynn P.]

Thank you to everyone who responded so far. I really fear the consequences if young people have total access to the internet. Things are very different compared to when families didn't have computers. Kids are starting in grade 6 and younger looking at porn. In grade 6 they start pairing up and claiming they're 'going out'. You wouldn't believe the crude language they use and I spoke about this on my other thread.

Last Thursday I called the school and told them about this info going around. I also asked them to get grades 7 and 8 together, to remind the kids about sharing appropriate pictures and not to engage in hateful and sexually explicit language. Young boys are being trained by watching porn and this is what their expectations will be -scary thought.

I wanted to comment on the valid point lonegael made. I think its fine for young women to be proud of their bodies and it's fine to walk around on beaches etc but the naked body shouldn't be shared like this. They can be proud but also need to respect their bodies. When I was young, sex was viewed as something you share with the special person you love. It seems today it's just an activity with very little emotional attachment.

[Perna]

I still don't get why children get the cell phones with all the bells and whistles. They don't need cameras, music, texting, etc.; they need to get in touch with parents/adults if they're in trouble! To heck with old people cell phones (Jitterbug) why not children's/teen phones?

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Perna

I still don't get why children get the cell phones with all the bells and whistles. They don't need cameras, music, texting, etc.

They get them because they will throw a tantrum otherwise! "Everyone else has them!"

Well, that would be my guess.

[lynn P.]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

On the other hand...

Things that would seem rather innocent in other societies, at least in the past, are now treated as monstrous and frightening events. Yes there are dangers, but you cannot expect children really to have the same perception about that as adults. And in part they may be rebelling against the restrictions and controlling atmosphere that they see, without knowing why. A less than healthy society makes things difficult for young people.

And I think that treating things such as this as overwhelming disasters may make them more problematic to resolve, than if you said "OK, we have a problem, let's see how to resolve it without blowing it up into something unmanageable"...

You make a valid point - I don't know if you're a parent though. I know it's normal for young kids to want to see each others parts. If this was a young couple simply showing their bodies - that wouldn't be shocking. We live where pics of underage children is against the law. Her mom's a teacher and even a 5 yr old knows not to show a naked body. Even the police can't be 100% sure they can control all the pictures.

When my daughter was in grade 5, I taught her about sex and I told her I'm an open book. She can talk to me about anything, so there's no mystery, where she has to sneak around for information.

[lynn P.]

Originally Posted by Perna

I still don't get why children get the cell phones with all the bells and whistles. They don't need cameras, music, texting, etc.; they need to get in touch with parents/adults if they're in trouble! To heck with old people cell phones (Jitterbug) why not children's/teen phones?

I agree with you Perna. It's a status symbol to have a phone. Many of the kids at my daughters school have Ipod touches or IPhones. The problem with Ipod touches is, they have full internet access. I don't think it's healthy for young kids to watch porn. Looking at Playboy is what young men would look at when I was a girl - that's Mickey Mouse compared to porn.

If your kid has an Ipod Touch - they can take it to bed and text or go on Facebook/MySpace to the wee hours of the morning. You're right a kid doesn't need a phone at school. If they need to call a parent, they can go to the office. It's a major distraction.

[Perna]

It's taboo and definitely a way to "stand out" from the other girls. There's no experience there with thinking things through and consequences, etc. I think a lot of what we tell kids sounds good to us but is more or less meaningless to them because of lack of years or experience.

Think of the simple belief, "it can't happen to me" and how that has changed for yourself over the years from when you were a child through young adult to older adult. Even when you're in junior high/high school, the concept of getting a job and working for a living, living on your own and having your own life makes no real sense; I was twenty years old before I "understood" and it immediately sent me into therapy because I couldn't deal with the concept! Most young children on the playground aren't thinking about how they can fall off the jungle gym and crack open their head; my grandson fell from a zip line in a neighbor's yard when his mother was right there supervising and broke his arm. Who knows what the size concept of the Internet/Web coupled with a cell phone means to a young girl?

[lynn P.]

Good points Perna. I remember like it was yesterday, what it like to be 13/14. It's true for some reason, they don't think of consequences. I had a brief boyfriend and thought it was fine lol. Luckily after that I didn't date until I was 18. Looking back now, I wouldn't think it's fine to have a boyfriend at a young age.

I talk to my girls about my own experiences. I was like you - I didn't have a clue what I wanted to study either. I think teaching kids starts when they're old enough to understand - private parts are called that for a reason. I've always emphasized good morals. It doesn't help when there's shows like Jersey Shore and other bad role models. Some girls call each other 'b***hs' and they're not being mean. Most of the images on Facebook aren't of sweet kids smiling, it's with a smirk and a gangster attitude.

[lonegael]

Another complicating factor is that it isn't all that easy, for example here in Sweden to buy a cell phone that doesn't have all the bells and whistles. My oldest earns his money for his gadgets working around the house or doing forestry with his dad. He buys one of the cheaper models on the market when he has to replace his phones (usually because the chargers won't work or the phone dies and can''t be fixed.) The cheaper models that he can afford ALL have internet access and cameras and etc. Hmmmmm. Is it the same in the States now?

[lynn P.]

Originally Posted by lonegael

Another complicating factor is that it isn't all that easy, for example here in Sweden to buy a cell phone that doesn't have all the bells and whistles. My oldest earns his money for his gadgets working around the house or doing forestry with his dad. He buys one of the cheaper models on the market when he has to replace his phones (usually because the chargers won't work or the phone dies and can''t be fixed.) The cheaper models that he can afford ALL have internet access and cameras and etc. Hmmmmm. Is it the same in the States now?

I don't know alot about phones because I'm not a phone person. I just have one when I'm out for emergencies and don't carry it constantly like some people.

I don't believe kids this young should have phones. The Ipod touches don't have the phone option but the IPhone does. The boy who recieved the pics, originally had the pics go through his XBox Wi Fi System when his friend was over - so they were viewing these pics on a wide screen TV. Later he brought the pics to school on his Ipod Touch.

I wish people would grow up like I did - thinking you have to really love someone before you see them naked and it's not for sharing with your budds. If this was a stranger who was nude it wouldn't be as bad as a girl who's in your school. I knows society evolves with the times, but I feel it's degrading morally for some.

13? The laws are ridiculous.These kids are going to be charged with a crime?That is astonishing.At that age they are not aware of the laws.I know boys have always been interested in girly magazines...and whatnot.At that age they aren't even very capable of stopping to think of the meaning of the things they do 'in depth'.For them it is like finding a nudie mag and showing it around.They should have a bit of discipline to some degree....but legal charges?They are kids.This reminds me of the time I bought a little laser light toy that has a red pin dot for a puppy or cat to chase around.My son was out side with it seeing how far the dot would appear .A neighbor called the police and cars pulled up with guns drawn.They said the neighbor would have been within their rights to SHOOT my son because it was similar to a guns laser light.That it is a felony to point those.I believe general public is ignorant of so many laws.But ignorance of a law will not nullify the law.This is a 1$ toy in a store.OMG.My point is that laws are SO blanket as to be begging for revision.Kids do stupid shi" and they are generally not able to grasp the ramifications of their deeds to the extent an adult may.If anything is responsible...it is mass media as a babysitter/influence to our kids.A legal charge will follow them.I realize there are many different ways to view the ordeal.But point being...the laws are too blanket in some cases.They need to really "fit" the action....and the age.

[lynn P.]

Good points wolfsong and I'm sorry this happened to your son. I don't think the boys will be charged(fingers crossed) because I think the youth has to be 14. If the boys were charged then, so should the girl. I would much rather, all concerned be brought with their parents for questioning and for the parents to deal with implementing appropriate action at home - like keeping the computer in the main living area's and not letting them take their IPOd Touch to school.

It's very normal for young people to want to look at naked bodies but it's unfortunate if they're looking at porn rather than the milder Playboy kind of pic. These boys should think about, what if this was their sister or mother and someone was passing their pic around. I think dealing with all concerned on this level is better than charging them. Since these are kids, parents need to occasionally look at what on the kids computer and have open discussions about these matters.

[ladyjrnlist]

Wow. I was NOT that grown up at 13. They are getting older faster these days. My goodness. I hope no permanent damage was done to any of the kids involved.

[thine_self_untrue]

Originally Posted by lynn P.

It's a status symbol to have a phone.

Not just to have a phone, but to have the "right", "newest" and "best" one. I'm out of it because I have an Mp3 player rather than an Ipod and a basic cell phone instead of an Ipad/Iphone/Blackberry. I got my phone at 16, the year after I got a job.
It's a pity some young lady felt the need to objectify herself to her peers. But in a way, its what we're asking for through our sex-charged culture and the amount of freedom and priviledge children are given. It's like handing them great power and "hoping" they'll be responsible, or worse, assuming they won't and that there is really nothing that can be done about it.

VERY intelligent and well spoken Thine...thank you!

[Perna]

Originally Posted by wolfsong

My point is that laws are SO blanket as to be begging for revision.Kids do stupid shi" and they are generally not able to grasp the ramifications of their deeds to the extent an adult may.If anything is responsible...it is mass media as a babysitter/influence to our kids.A legal charge will follow them.I realize there are many different ways to view the ordeal.But point being...the laws are too blanket in some cases.They need to really "fit" the action....and the age.

Yes, the laws can seem pretty blanketing but the people who deal with the results generally aren't; I'm sure the boys won't get a criminal record or have a legal charge but they'll certainly get a "lesson" about nude pictures and sharing them, especially of actual people they know? I think there is often no other way to teach that lesson because some parents have abdicated "noticing" what is going on in their kids lives. I don't see how a 13 year old is allowed to have anyone in the house if they're home alone (big screen television) or allowed to take electronics out of the home (ipad).

I have a friend whose 12-13 year old daughter ran up the cable bill accessing porn in the middle of the night when the parents were sleeping, one does expect some of that from both sexes but the blatant disrespect of self and others that this original incident involves I put to the adults not having a very good/thorough relationship with the kids.

[lynn P.]

Very wise points by ladyjrnlist and thine self untrue. I couldn't agree more with all your statements. I'm also fearful of the direction young people are going and the way they think about sex in general. You'll all probably giggle, but when I was 18, I didn't know what oral sex was - now it's almost expected at these young ages. I think the blame comes from, not enough discussion at home, but the main influence is what they see on the internet and in society in general. It seems like the entertainment industry loves bad girls.

I like what you said thine, about what age you got a phone - you had a job which showed personal responsibility and you needed it in case you had car trouble or an emergency.

If an adult makes the choice as adults to pose nude, at least pick a semi respectable magazine like Playboy/Playgirl and get payed for it. I would hope it a young teen wants to take the step to show her body - at least pick 1 boy and have degree of emotional connection, where they feel love for each other.

[lynn P.]

I agree Perna - we posted at the same time lol.

Yes...I agree...a 'lesson' is of great value.I do wish to state...I was over involved in my boys lives and yet things occurred in their lives that I believe were out of my control.There is also a degree to which a parent must step back and consider natural consequence as a teacher to a young person.Where to allow and disallow natural consequences to take over is an issue.I of course am not referring to this particular case.What I mean to say is,it is highly fathomable that even with parents who feel their childrens friends homes are a descent place to be or have done well in preparing their kids for different scenarios popping up in life,as well as being involved in knowing what kids are 'up to'....there is a degree to which the parent is not in the equation.Especially once they are teens.As far as gadgets...internet access,cell phones....ect...My kids earned or partially earned their things because it was in the forefront of my mind that life wouldn't hand them ANYTHING ever.So between grades,responsibilities, behavior and chores...they knew they earned alot of their extras.I think that changed their perception of life immensely.