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  #1  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 08:07 AM
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Since I found out that the internet is not what I thought it was, I'm losing my affection for it. I am feeling disillusioned. And worried.

This happened when I recently learned that my internet search does not produce the same results as your internet search. I didn't know this before.
Each internet search brings up results tailored to the individual's computer usage - the sites and even the types of sites most frequently visited and where the user is located.

So much for the openness of shared information. It isn't. It makes me think "Big Brother" - Orwell, not "reality" tv show.

It also makes me worry about non-electronic information - books, papers, etc - and how we are protecting them in this age of replacing everything with electronic equivalents.
Thanks for this!
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  #2  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 10:59 AM
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i believe your worries are well founded, and not nearly paranoid enough, Echoes. i don't know who has the data banks that hold our information, and i don't know anyone who does know, do you ? i know i'm scanned at the grocery store, the doctors office, the bank, and even online... but there are no "data police", no personal data security guards, that i know of... and already 80% of americans are posting personal information on FaceBook, a site so vulnerable to hacking that it puts the information highway to shame. i hope you keep thinking about this, as i will be, and we can talk again. best wishes,, Gus
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  #3  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 11:50 AM
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Gus, gosh I read your great post and I think.. it's only a matter of time before someone thinks it would be "better/faster/more efficient/etc" to just have each one of us microhipped, like our pets.
  #4  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 12:31 PM
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Actually, your Google search is my Google search but your Google priorities are not mine! My searches generally bring up hundreds of pages of info and I don't want any old info to be first as my search patterns reflect me and my interests! I can find what you find, on page 432 but I want to find what I want to find on the first few pages?

For example, I use the Mayo Clinic a lot for my medical info so it comes up before the (what I consider) over-rated, general WebMD on my searches. It's the difference, to me, between bringing up Oprah or Dr. Charles Krauthammer.
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  #5  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 01:16 PM
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Well I don't want my computer to act in the role of my mind.
I don't want my computer to assume what I'm looking for, or the reason I am looking.
  #6  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 01:54 PM
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I don't look at it that way. My search engines (they don't all work as well/the same as Google) find all the information there is but there's a lot of information out there. If I am very strict and academic as to how I search or use a selective search engine made for the subject I am searching, there is no assumption there, it finds "less" because I am exact in my search. But if I search for "food" or just some multi-word string, do not use the search parameters like quotes and boolean logic and special characters, a successful search engine has to assume some sort of ranking, no matter what, and I'd rather it assumed a ranking based on my history of similar searches with that search engine than it's own idea of how I'd like it to search?

The search engine is not assuming what you are looking for, it is structuring the results based on what you have looked for; if I choose Mayo Clinic over WebMD (it use to give me WebMD up front as that is the most "popular") every time I search medical info, it is basing its rank order on one I have taught it! It starts quite neutral, gives the most popular search answers (why would you want the blanks, trash, and unpopular ones first?) and, over time, you teach that search engine how you like to search. Change to Yahoo or some other search engine and you get a different result because they don't care, don't have the technology to help you like Google and Amazon do, or you haven't used that search engine enough to mold it to your use as you have another engine.

Look at here, for example, when you search for a member? It just gives you all the members in alphabetical order under the first character of their name; you have to choose an additional step to search for a particular name or beginning of name to narrow down who you are looking for. That's why there's a "friend" option, so the people you talk to the most often, are easier to find. The search engine is not doing anything on its own! It is just letting you mold it to your use. All the stuff is still there and if you want something "different" you choose page 42 or something instead of reading page 1 is all. But for me, with Google, when I get beyond about page 5, it usually becomes pretty useless for anything I would want.

You realize the news Google finds for you and some of the searches are date sensitive too; it gives you the newest first? It isn't acting in the role of your mind, it is taking the drudgery out of searching, is merely sorting in ways you have asked it to sort before so most searches are easier.

If neither of us have searched for a subject before, it probably gives us the same most common/popular answers first as all search engines do/have to. It is only those subjects, like medical, for example, where I know you and I have searched for stuff before, that you and I are going to vary what it brings up on our first two pages. When I search for psychological things, it often brings up PsychCentral now :-) I find that mildly annoying at times but that's only 1 out of 25 or so first couple of pages; if I ignore the PsychCentral blog posts, they'll move down my pages and out of my way; it's just prioritizing, which any search engine has to do, that's their job; whether it's alphabetical, by date, by popularity, by whatever, they all have "rules" and I like the rules that Google and Amazon have where they pay attention to me in their sorting of my stuff! I don't want Amazon recommending mysteries or CD's or movies for me! I don't read, buy, or watch those things; I want my romances and fantasies coming up. No, not all the time but if I search for something specifically, only that comes up first and that's the same with Google.

Searching for "psychology websites" and "psychology websites psychcentral" is two different things and it is not the search engine that is controlling it but the nature of me and my search but see if you don't get "similar" results?

Your Google search isn't My Google search Your Google search isn't My Google search
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ECHOES, Feiticeira, Timgt5, Yoda
  #7  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 02:17 PM
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You don't have to use the unbelievably commercial Google. There are many search engines out there!

And if your search matters, search on more than one engine. Same principle as getting more than one opinion from a doctor.

Remember that computers and the internet are tools. Learn how to use these tools, learn their limitations, and they will serve you well. Search engines are like saws. One saw does not serve all cutting needs equally. Not by a long shot!
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  #8  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 05:33 PM
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I really meant any search, but used Google as an example.

My worry is that this tool filters for me without me knowing it. My worry is that the source documents need to be preserved. Anyone can type and hit enter

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  #9  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 05:46 PM
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Yep-- they are watching.

this has always concerned me- since the beginning of the net......

be as careful and cautious as possible.....

the goal-- seek to be generic(IMO) blend in with the herd.....
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Your Google search isn't My Google search
  #10  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECHOES View Post
It also makes me worry about non-electronic information - books, papers, etc - and how we are protecting them in this age of replacing everything with electronic equivalents.
They are being protected well: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/i...protection.htm

And, getting them online for all to use before they are "worn out"/time destroys them has helped me no end. I've been studying my 3rd great grand aunt, Harriet, (1755-1813) and she had a female business partner, they owned/taught school together in and around London, Margaret Leech, who wrote a book of poems after Harriet died, dedicated them to Harriet (through their former students) and have been a wonderful resource for me (Margaret wrote my 4th great grandmother's will for her, which I have a copy of from the National Archives in the UK and Harriet left her most of her stuff in her own will and I have Margaret's will, etc.). I'm very grateful to the University of California, Davis for preserving her work and putting them online, both! It is so rare, they aren't elsewhere and experts I have consulted have no clue as to Margaret, I probably know more about her than anyone! That couldn't happen before.

http://digital.lib.ucdavis.edu/proje...leecmpoems.htm
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  #11  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 06:00 PM
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That is a very nice explanation of how those things work, I learned a lot from reading your post!
  #12  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECHOES View Post
Each internet search brings up results tailored to the individual's computer usage - the sites and even the types of sites most frequently visited and where the user is located.
Where did you learn of this? One of my biggest pet peeves is how search engines have been "improved" so that they add their own search terms interfering with whatever I'm trying to type, as if they know more than me what I'm searching for.
  #13  
Old Dec 22, 2011, 07:56 PM
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There was an article in the newspaper several Sunday's ago. (I only get the Sunday paper)
  #14  
Old Dec 24, 2011, 02:21 AM
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It's a double-edged sword for sure. One of the things I like is that can local results for a very general search. Of course, all search engines keep a record of what you search for, which the government can use to arrest you should you search for something bad, like how to make bombs or something. I know also that how much money a site is paying the search engine affects where it shows up in the listing.
Thanks for this!
ECHOES
  #15  
Old Dec 24, 2011, 02:52 AM
Aslan Aslan is offline
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its logical that your search will start somewhere,
so they have put in place the criteria to know
what that somwhere begins.
Thanks for this!
ECHOES
  #16  
Old Dec 24, 2011, 06:55 AM
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Thanks everyone, for your replies and interest!
  #17  
Old Dec 24, 2011, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECHOES View Post
Gus, gosh I read your great post and I think.. it's only a matter of time before someone thinks it would be "better/faster/more efficient/etc" to just have each one of us microhipped, like our pets.
Echoes, I've heard parents talk abot microchipping their kids.
Thanks for this!
ECHOES
  #18  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECHOES View Post
Since I found out that the internet is not what I thought it was, I'm losing my affection for it. I am feeling disillusioned. And worried.

This happened when I recently learned that my internet search does not produce the same results as your internet search. I didn't know this before.
Each internet search brings up results tailored to the individual's computer usage - the sites and even the types of sites most frequently visited and where the user is located.

So much for the openness of shared information. It isn't. It makes me think "Big Brother" - Orwell, not "reality" tv show.

It also makes me worry about non-electronic information - books, papers, etc - and how we are protecting them in this age of replacing everything with electronic equivalents.
NOW that I'm reading 1984 by George Orwell, I REALLY know what "Orwellian" means. It is a disturbing book, yet still enjoyable. Orwell was ahead of his time. In the book, of course there's no Internet, but they have human spies, hidden microphones, and something called a telescreen which must be like a TV, in your HOME of all places.

I don't like this and lately wish I lived in an earlier era. Just like with cameras. As I heard as a line on Blue Bloods recently from one of the veteran cops, "Back in my day the only people with cameras were tourists and journalists. Now, everyone is filming stuff. And putting it where everyone can see. Always assume you're being filmed or could be."

I'm afraid one day everything will be electronic. There won't be printed books anymore or printed currency even. No humans in stores, no bricks and mortars stores at all maybe. I hope I don't live to see it. Not against progress, but there's always a price of some kind. Like cashiers losing their jobs cause they want customers to use self-check out. For me, tech is not all it's cracked up to be. And the more something can do, the more things can go wrong with it. I often miss the simpler things.
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Your Google search isn't My Google search

Hmmm....looks like some good tips in here.


Your Google search isn't My Google search

"Okay, enough photos. I'm a very BUSY Business Kitty, so make an appointment next time."
Thanks for this!
ECHOES
  #19  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 04:31 PM
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http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives...ch_engines.php

Here's a list of 100 other search engines you can use.

Someone stated their fear of searching for things and that leading to an arrest, I think that's somewhat inaccurate. The fact is your ISP can see EVERYTHING you send and receive over the internet. And if the police have reason to search your browsing history they need to present a warrant to your ISP, and they can seize the files on your computer. Even if you delete your web history the information is technically still on your HD. In fact, when you delete data off your drive it's not really gone that space is just reallocated and can be written over. So if you toss out your computer or donate it, it's best to destroy your HD even if you format your drive it's possible to retrieve that data on it. Anyway if your worried about big brother be worried about your ISP. They can tell what kind of things you're doing online, if your instant messaging, emailing, downloading, ect and they have direct access to your IP address. In fact, they know exactly where you live, where to find you and what your doing online at any given moment. While google only knows what you're doing when you feed it information.

Anyway x.x. Google (and most web pages) use cookies to make web searches more relevant to you. You can clear your cookies and you'll see different results in your search results. Like if you want your results in Japanese instead of English. What I like about google is that they order their results in a way that puts web sites that scam, phish, script attacks, or spam on less relevant pages, so depending on your search you're less likely to come across one of the sites.

Edit: ISP's technically can't see things that are encrypted. So if your logging into your email or anything with https they can't actually see the content of what your doing, but they still know that you're sending/receiving emails.
Thanks for this!
ECHOES
  #20  
Old Jan 12, 2012, 05:11 PM
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They want us to believe that all these cameras and scannings are for our own good and will help us in the future. Personally it scares the crap out of me. My needs and wants may change from day to day I don't want to be stereo typed or categorized by their computer programs.
Thanks for this!
ECHOES, nonightowl
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