Should people let people do whatever they want with their bodies?

Oh no, lol you said the one word I will always debate about. . .'God'.
But yes, I understand your feels and appreciate your response!

This isn't a response to anyone here. IMO this is a loaded thread speaking of suicide and abortion, since these topics are fiery and polarized often. The only suicide I believe in is, if a person has a terminal disease and their quality of life is painful and intolerable. Even with this guideline its still difficult to determine who's a likely or justified.

I feel its a waste for a person to end their life otherwise and know the pain it leaves behind. A person could be going through a bad time and things might get better...therefore those people should be protected. There's a disorder where the person feels compelled to amputate a limb/s - should doctors grant this request? Even though suicides not permitted it still happens so not much point discussing it.

Ok, I suck at quoting, especially in multiples, so I will try and answer your points clearly by topic.

You asked about someone taking their own life... "What about when it's a passing phase because somebody hasn"t been taking their medication and they're stable and HAPPY when they do?"

This part does not answer your question, but another thought...some people don't believe in meds; they believe in who they are is who they are...and those people certainly have the right to decide to end their life were they that miserable, IMHO.

The answer to your question is basically that some of that falls to the hypervigilence of the dr. who assigned the med. I don't think GPs should be assigning psych meds as they have NOT had enough training to know what they are messing with (and one really messed me up that way). Meds should be administered by a pdoc who takes longer than 20 minutes to hand out the refill or drug of choice for the day to see how you are really doing. And appts for meds should be more often and mandatory to check in on the patient's well-being. Regardless, pdocs are still pdocs , and I think anyone on a psych med should be required to see a T as well because they are the ones who really get to know the patient, period. They are the ones likely to notice if someone is in trouble and needs more help, has gone off his/her meds, etc.

Regarding parenting licenses, you asked "Who'd get to decide and what would the terms be though? What would happen if people conceive without a license?"

I think each country would probably have to decide each of its own terms. I think a board made up of legitimate child advocacy groups, child therapists, gynocologists, and reproductive specialists would at least be a starting point for people to be on that board to set the terms for the parenting license...I include the latter two as I am including the care of the child from conception onward.

If people conceive without a license they should be enrolled in the class all hopeful future parents should be taking anyway. They would need to prove themselves as being responsible adults and would be assigned a case worker, perhaps a LCSW, who would determine their readiness for the child. In some chances if they could not provide for the child financially or were unable to be there otherwise to give the child a stable environment, the child could risk being taken away once born.

Wow, I have expressed a lot of opinions today. Feels good though.

It's cool you feel good for having expressed "a lot" of opinions, kudos to you .

You're right, patients should have more contact time with competant professions when medication is being prescribed.

Hmm what about when drug addicts conceive unlicensed. A forced abortion to protect the child from potential harm? Is that going too far, or not far enoough? Or perhaps placing the mother into custody so she can be forced to be drug free whilst pregnant?

What about someone with treatment resistant schizophrenia? Negative voices telling you how bad you are all the time...you won't die from it but the psychic pain is intense. Even my pdoc slipped up and said he didn't blame another patient for being suicidal given the severity of his condition.

Thats a tough question and can't really answer it properly since I don't know how it feels...... sorry you're suffering. My brother ended his life 5 yrs ago, so I can only speak about the pain it leaves behind for those who loved the person. I also wonder - what if the medical community comes up with better treatment? I do have my own suffering and admit I struggle sometimes but still have that glimmer of hope to hang on.

If the conception has been caught early enough then yes the mother should be taken and placed into a hospital/safe group home structure where she can safely detox...if there IS such a thing with a child inside of you.

I don't know about what tests can be done these days on babies and when, but I would like to think (and I don't think we can do this yet), a test should be able to be done on the fetus to check it's health once it's systems are all viable but before it's too late to terminate...do those things even go together? (I don't know the timeline or what that window might be.)

If the baby is going to be born basically beyond help or into a miserable life because of certain birth defects, a group of the same people mentioned before (gynos, reproductive specialists) should be the ones to make the tough decision about whether to terminate or not.

Regardless, the mother should stay in detox until clean and receive therapy as well, and then also be assigned a case worker who tracks her progress IRL once she gets out. The mother should also be put on birth control that cannot be "forgotten," such as an IUD.

Don't worry it's not me...I responded to the meds. It's just that my pdoc brought up this other guy who was suicidal before ect and I can't get it out of my head and the thing is I kind of agree with the pdoc that I can't blame the guy I mean you have no control over your own mind. I personally believe we should allow people some sort of legal suicide as in you can't just do it but if a court finds your life quality intolerable you should be allowed to go with assistance. I think in extreme physical and mental conditions this should apply. Sure stop the people with recent breakups, etc but if people are being tortured by continuing to exist they should have an out. Instead we lock them up.

Forced birth control, nice. What about forced steralisation instead?

Sterilization is another story in itself. Trust me, I know.

To answer the OP, it isn't very realistic to think that people should choose to do whatever they want with their bodies. People in general strive to please other people, whether it's a spouse, friend, parent, or even society. Some people wear the latest fashion to keep up a reputation of being stylish. Some people deny their sexuality to avoid disappointing their friends or family. And regarding the make up you wear or the way we groom, people tend to do whatever pleases our spouses best because they want their approval and want them to stay happy in the relationship. It's not an extreme way to view things because it happens so frequently. However, it does not mean that people are completely submissive or dependent on others, it just means that people can be influenced by the approval of others.

Does that make any sense?

So do you agree or disagree with the statement in context of the nature of this thread?

Surely people modifying themselves for their spouses etc. Is a choice that they are choosing to make which takes in the advantages and disadvantages of compromising for a purpose?

Interesting topic, a few thoughts if you will.

General Principle: I own me, period, I own my thoughts, I own my labor. If I wish to surgically enhance myself, that is my right, same with piercings, tats, etc...

If I wish to sell my blood, semen, hair or even certain of my organs, well they belong to me and the state has no right to tell me I cannot unless said organs are diseased and present a danger to a potential recipient.

As an aside here, if people where allowed to sell their kidneys etc... in a properly regulated market, the issue with waiting lists for organ transplants could be solved. (Waiting for people to donate then have to actually die is highly inefficient.)

My life then belongs to me as well, if I make a conscious choice to end it, so be it. There are couple of countries, the Netherlands being one if I am not mistaken allow people who to make that choice for themselves.

One correction to a prior post, and I am not picking on the poster per se, it is a common mistake, we do not live in a democracy. The US is Constitutional Republic, there is a difference. Pure democracy is basically codified mob rule. Whereas a representative republic is set up to protect the rights of the minority. Will elect officials through a majority vote, but it is up them to pass legislation on our behalf.

Doesn't the word democracy come from greek and simply translates to people-power?

But Phreak, in this example taking drugs effects the unborn child, not just the woman.

I posted the above before reading the entire thread. I stand by what I said. The woman is making choices that effect another person so there should be some limitations on what she's allowed to do.

Going back to the original question....

My answer is going to mirro rmy answer to the make-up and shaving questions. I believe people ought to be able to do whatever they want with their own body. They might not make choices I'd make for my body, but they should still be allowed to as long as the choices they make do not impact the life of another person. Somebody wants tats all over their body and multiple piercings? Go for it!

The suicide question is more complex... I am in a profession that mandates I take steps if someone expresses suicidal intent. I can lose my license if I don't take steps. My personal beliefs are more complicated. I believe a person should have the right to end their life if they so choose BUT I also recognize there are times that a person is feeling overwhelmed and sees no other solution when in fact there are other solutions. In those cases, I believe we should offer the person help and help them see there are other options. Bottom line though - if a person really wants to kill themself, they will find a way to do it.

Ohhhhh I tend to do what ever makes me happy

Clearly you're right that as a general rule people should be able to do whatever they with when it directly only relaates to themselves.

You're also right that desperate people will find a way to commit suicide.

Well, perhaps there might be a time in her life when she is in a better place and ready for a child. I see no point in punishing any one for life, just protecting the possible pregnancies for that time when she is clearly not ready to be responsible enough to take care of her own body well enough to carry a healthy baby to term.

How very reasonable and intellegently considered

I can't think of anything sensible to say in response though, so I won't comment further.

Well thank you, I have quite enjoyed this topic and discussion; very thought provoking.
If there were a curtsying icon, I would put it here.

ad "what if they are happy on their meds". Meh, most people kill themselves cause they are not happy. Just because they don't activelly express it when doped up doesn't mean they are "happy". They just don't bother other as much.
And if I decide to go one day, I want my wish to respect and not to be forcibly treated in belief it would make me "happy".

ad tattoos and piercings... feel free, but I and other might judge you. I wouldn't ever judge for the fact that the person has tattoo, but I will freely judge for crap artwork or crap motives. So feel free to tattoo all the body parts and pizza slices (badly done ones too) on your body, but you will be judged. Sorry. Yes, Twilight tattoos count as bad tattoos too, in my book.

twilight anything might cause some judgment and questions in taste at the very least...ha. you made me laugh. well put.

No need to thank me, but you're welcome.

I love stimulating and thought provoking conversation, I just sometimes struggle to draw the line between acceptable thought provoking comments and going a step too far and being offensive

Believe we are all different and that is what makes humanity special No one should be allowed to intentionally hurt anyone else ..... but thinking at the end of our lives here on this planet... if really sick, terminal, and such... each person should have a chose on what they wish and as for the people that I have known whom chose to exit early.... it was their best decision at that time However selfish we may feel about it Just my thoughts... pikku

I think suicide is a great option. Why should they stay if they don't want to?