[Alone & confused]

I've been doing some deep thinking today. I decided to start a thread to post some of these thoughts, and get your feedback to see if they make sense to any of you.

I was on a thread today about things people say that makes us mad. A common theme was the "easy" ways to just pull ourselves out of bipolar, depression ex.
So that got me thinking, yeah, maybe I WOULD feel better if I would "just get up and do something".
Maybe some of these simplistic ideas these people offer us would help. But maybe the real problem is finding a way to MAKE OURSELVES do these things. I remembered when my children were babies, how they would get a fever. And all they had to do was take the damn Tylenol I was trying to give them and it would make them feel better. But no. They Hated the thought of taking medicine! Even if I could manage to get it in their mouths they'd spit it out! It was such a simple thing to just swallow it down, but it was an impossible task to get them to do it! So now I'm thinking, I am going to be SO PISSED if I find out that after 30+ years of therapy, & doctors, & countless useless drugs that ALL I HAD TO DO was make myself do some STUPID LITTLE THINGS that I DIDN'T WANT TO DO that would've given me just a little bit of happiness in my life! Anyway, I'm going to do an experiment with this & I'll get back to you all with my results.

[Webgoji]

Oh, like only surround myself with positive people and not let negative people around ...

Oh wait, I have to interact with the world where every other person is negative and if I value my employment I have to directly work with negative people. Okay, that's not gonna work ...

Oh! But maybe if I look in the mirror every day and say over and over how I'm successful and talented ...

But that's not true, lying to myself isn't going to make anything better.

So what about only thinking positive thoughts? That should ... but

My brain doesn't function properly due to serotonin and norepinephrine being reabsorbed before it can properly transmit signals. So I'm trying to drag race without tires.


What I'm saying is that maybe there are small things we can work on. But most of the advice I've ever gotten hasn't worked or is downright counterproductive. Not everything works the same for everyone so we need to try multiple things to see what works for us. For example, my wife had a panic attack because I couldn't get her to take her anti-anxiety pill. It was as simple as taking her medicine.

Good luck, maybe you find that thing you need!

[Alone & confused]

Originally Posted by Webgoji

Oh, like only surround myself with positive people and not let negative people around ...

Oh wait, I have to interact with the world where every other person is negative and if I value my employment I have to directly work with negative people. Okay, that's not gonna work ...

Oh! But maybe if I look in the mirror every day and say over and over how I'm successful and talented ...

But that's not true, lying to myself isn't going to make anything better.

So what about only thinking positive thoughts? That should ... but

My brain doesn't function properly due to serotonin and norepinephrine being reabsorbed before it can properly transmit signals. So I'm trying to drag race without tires.




What I'm saying is that maybe there are small things we can work on. But most of the advice I've ever gotten hasn't worked or is downright counterproductive. Not everything works the same for everyone so we need to try multiple things to see what works for us. For example, my wife had a panic attack because I couldn't get her to take her anti-anxiety pill. It was as simple as taking her medicine.

Good luck, maybe you find that thing you need!

I knew I'd see you here! hi! I know this idea won't be the solution to end bipolar, I'm just trying to find ways to Not be completely MISERABLE every single minute of every day! I'm talking about ways to possibly take an occasional Break from all the suffering. Maybe make the bad times a little more manageable by tossing some good in from time to time.

[MuseumGhost]

Dear A&c...

Have you ever heard of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)? or of Dialectical Behavioural Therapy (DBT)? Because those two methods of confronting and changing thought processes, and possibly our behaviours, have helped myself and countless others begin the process of getting up and actually moving forward through this morass that is called Depression (be it Major, or the Bi-Polar variety.).

No, they are not "magic bullets", and they are not brainwashing or pseudo-science. They are practical and highly useful ways of confronting the undesirable effects of the cognitive part of our disease, especially when applied on a regular basis.

Which ever one you familiarize yourself with, it teaches you
to kind of take the bull by the horns, so to speak, in small one-step-at-a-time ways, and turn your thinking and reactions around, back closer to the truth, and a sort of Happy Middle Ground; and in ways you can implement, even when you are feeling pretty poorly.

I would go find a book on either one, and give yourself a kind of leg up on this thinking and approach. It sounds to me as if you are probably ready to turn some things around for yourself.

I know CBT has helped me overcome (emotionally, and rationally), in many situations where I otherwise would have been left flat on my back, in horrible emotional anguish. My thinking really DID NEED some serious re-training, after the devastating effects my major depression had on me.

Yes, there have been many times I could barely even get out of bed, too shattered to face even the simplest household demands! But even if I applied a little of what I learned, it helped me while I lay there---and very possibly prevented me from plunging headlong into very bad thinking.

And, of course, some days are just plain better than others, and everything's easier...let's be honest....

But now I do have a seize-the-day kind of mentality about everything, and even if I'm not at 100% yet, or even close, I maintain ownership of my thoughts much more than 50% of the time---probably even closer to 80%. (On very good days, I'm almost back to 99%, or higher.)

I can now PUSH myself, and accomplish things that were nowhere near doable only a year ago.

And that, for me, is the basis for regaining so much that I thought was lost, forever.

[atomicc]

Speaking for someone who DOES just go out and do those things, like go out with a friend, say positive things to myself, be proud of my accomplishments...yeah
it doesn't work. Maybe for normal people it might, but the whole point is we don't function like every one else so it will still piss me off if someone says that me. I do do the things they tell me and guess what, I'm still in the same spot.

[Webgoji]

Originally Posted by MuseumGhost

Dear A&c...

Have you ever heard of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)? or of Dialectical Behavioural Therapy (DBT)? Because those two methods of confronting and changing thought processes, and possibly our behaviours, have helped myself and countless others begin the process of getting up and actually moving forward through this morass that is called Depression (be it Major, or the Bi-Polar variety.).

No, they are not "magic bullets", and they are not brainwashing or pseudo-science. They are practical and highly useful ways of confronting the undesirable effects of the cognitive part of our disease, especially when applied on a regular basis.

Which ever one you familiarize yourself with, it teaches you
to kind of take the bull by the horns, so to speak, in small one-step-at-a-time ways, and turn your thinking and reactions around, back closer to the truth, and a sort of Happy Middle Ground; and in ways you can implement, even when you are feeling pretty poorly.

I would go find a book on either one, and give yourself a kind of leg up on this thinking and approach. It sounds to me as if you are probably ready to turn some things around for yourself.

I know CBT has helped me overcome (emotionally, and rationally), in many situations where I otherwise would have been left flat on my back, in horrible emotional anguish. My thinking really DID NEED some serious re-training, after the devastating effects my major depression had on me.

Yes, there have been many times I could barely even get out of bed, too shattered to face even the simplest household demands! But even if I applied a little of what I learned, it helped me while I lay there---and very possibly prevented me from plunging headlong into very bad thinking.

And, of course, some days are just plain better than others, and everything's easier...let's be honest....

But now I do have a seize-the-day kind of mentality about everything, and even if I'm not at 100% yet, or even close, I maintain ownership of my thoughts much more than 50% of the time---probably even closer to 80%. (On very good days, I'm almost back to 99%, or higher.)

I can now PUSH myself, and accomplish things that were nowhere near doable only a year ago.

And that, for me, is the basis for regaining so much that I thought was lost, forever.

I've heard of these methods; CBT and DBT ... maybe ABC? But don't know anything about them. Are they done with a therapist or do you learn them from self-help books? Where does this come from?

Good luck to you, I hope it's working out

In the past I've found that I have felt better for a while after making myself do something, but that it doesn't get any easier to make myself do something the next time. It's almost as though the brain gets used to this state, and that it feels abnormal to be in another mode - even if it's one that feels more positive.

Maybe it takes doing it for a long time before the brain acclimatizes to that 'improved' state and comes to accept it as the norm'?

[MuseumGhost]

For webgoji, and everyone else who is curious:

Cognitive behavioral therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dialectical behavior therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My personal experience with CBT was an 8-week group therapy sesssion, offered by our provincial Mental Heath Association. It was free, but if you missed two sessions, you were out. They offered it twice a year.

I KNOW there are books available, and self-taught courses in utilizing it---that way, you can work through in privacy, and at your own pace.

It is not a miracle cure. However, it has come back to help me, numerous times---when 'depressed thinking' wants to take over, for example---or when I just need motivation to get through some chores. It helped me a great deal after the death of my brother, helping me feel strong enough to confront what I needed to, to assist me in moving through the grief process.

Hope this helps...

[MuseumGhost]

I'll illustrate with one exercise that the facilitators taught us. It's a self-affirmation technique, to assist when either depressed thinking, or anxiety, tries to take over---and prevents us from getting done what we might need to do. It could be applied to many situations, wherever you feel you are being attacked by negative thought patterns.

When all those voices in your head start to try and tell you how bad, dumb, wrong, what a failure you are, or whatever, you need to go find a cool dark spot (preferably a bed), and lay down flat. You clear your mind of as much emotional clutter as you can---and breathe very deeply and very well. Start then by summoning one very good, very positive, very true thing about yourself. It could be something you routinely accomplish, or something natural and inherent about yourself, say, You love to cook for your family. AND you are very good at it. Congratuations, that's one down!

Then, you continue on, coolly and calmly, to stating two good things about yourself. Remember, they must be true---and already firmly in place. Say, this time, it's that you are great at carpentry, or that you have a natural way with small children, or animals. Then, you move in to a third. You MUST speak them out loud to yourself: i.e., "I am really good with small children." Do this all three times. You should notice your anxiety lessening, your breathing getting better and deeper, and you should feel more relaxed as anxiety is moving away from you, and negative feelings fade.

See now if you can move on to 5 good, true things about yourself. Remember, no one else is around, and it doesn't matter what anyone else would think if they could hear you---these things are true, and need to be said.

Next, if you are into the exercise and it is helping you, move on and find 5 more things to state about yourself. By the time you get to ten true and good things, you should be feeling much better about yourself, any tasks you may have at hand, and life in general.

You can repeat this exercise as often as necessary. If you'd find it helpful to Write down the ten true things about yourself, then by all means, do so. Anything that helps make this exercise easier for you to do, the closer you will get to doing it automatically, without having to go through all the motions.

And, I would suggest for those who might be tempted to think this is just 'too easy', or 'too simplistic', I suggest you try it, in earnest; then get back to us and tell us how it went!

[MuseumGhost]

Plus, I just want to add, quickly:

The people who lay those choice, quick bits of advice on us, generally do not have the first clue about how complexly or profoundly our individual lives are affected by these ailments. They are either keeping it all at arms' length from themselves, because they cannot possibly grasp what you are enduring...or they are simply incapable or unwilling to examine closer what it is you are genuinely grappling with.

(In the case of my Dad, for instance, he was so pained by the realization that I had developed depression, that he simply could not get his head around it. He gave me some short-sighted but well-meant bits of advice. And, yet, still, he did ALSO offer me the most help and offers of assistance of anyone in my family. And I think he tried the hardest of anyone to TRY to understand what life was like for me on a daily basis.)

Try not to be too angry with people...it IS all extremely hard to take in...unless of course they are using this all as an excuse to abuse you, or deny you simple human rights and dignity. (Then, blast them with everything you can find at your disposal!!! And do it for all of us!!!)

[bronzeowl]

Originally Posted by atomicc

Speaking for someone who DOES just go out and do those things, like go out with a friend, say positive things to myself, be proud of my accomplishments...yeah
it doesn't work. Maybe for normal people it might, but the whole point is we don't function like every one else so it will still piss me off if someone says that me. I do do the things they tell me and guess what, I'm still in the same spot.

This is why we get frustrated.

Everyone is different. No one person is exactly like another. What works for one person, isn't going to work for someone else. The problem is, these ideas are always touted as 'cures'. Which is dangerous. Dangerous because the depressed individual (as I'm sure we all know) is already.. well, depressed. If he or she tries something that they were told would 'cure' their depression, and it doesn't, it could lead them into an even deeper depression. Causing them to wonder why it didn't work. And since self blame is common in depression, they may even blame themselves (convince themselves they weren't trying hard enough, for example) which could lead to an even deeper depression.

Am I denying they work? Not exactly. Yoga has helped me somewhat. For about an hour after yoga, I feel a bit more energized and a bit less depressed. Is it a cure? Not even close. It is a temporary bandaid for a much more complicated problem. Saying it cures my depression would be like saying a band-aid can cure a bullet wound. I walk for at least 30 minutes a day. I do yoga for about 30-60 minutes a day. If I can muster the energy, I even do cardio. But it has not cured me. Has it helped some people? I'm sure it has! And awesome for them! It just irks me that I often have people assuming I don't do these things, assuming I want to be isolated and depressed, and expecting me to suddenly be cured when I start running every day as if it's some magic pill. And then when I point out that I have, telling me I'm just not 'trying hard enough'.

Mental illness is complex. I could talk about serotonin and norepinephrine and dopamine and all those other neurotransmitters that are related to the various psychological disorders, but I don't know if I have the energy to even think about them as I'm currently deep in a depressive episode. Nevertheless, there is no catch all. Everyone is different. Exercise works for some. Socializing works for others. Still, some people only respond to therapy. And some only respond to pills. Some, even, respond only to specific types of therapy. I am not trying to be a negative Nancy, please don't think I am! I'm just trying to explain my perspective.

If you want to try it out, I encourage you to do so. All the best.

[Alone & confused]

I know what you mean. I'm to the point that I'd wear someone's testicles on my head if I thought it would help! I'm sick of it! This is MY mind, MY body, MY life and I should DAMN WELL be able to have SOME CONTROL over it! I'm sure you all feel the same frustration.