[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

I used to love Facebook and was an active user but now I don't like it as much, I'm more passive now and could care less if my Facebook account disappeared. I hate Twitter but I'm forced to have an account in order for me to see some announcements people make, I only have an account there out of obligation. I absolutely love forums and I made my very first account in 2013 but didn't like the stuff I had on it so this is a newer account, I agree things have changed and not as many people are on here and posting. Something definitely changed especially after the Covid pandemic started and people aren't as active and it appears that this site may be on a course for a slow death, it's sad to see a once very active site start to slowly die off since this is the only forms site that's actually helpful due to people on other sites being unhelpful and extremely judgmental.

I certainly HOPE this site isn't dying a slow death, as then I'd be dead since there's no real life people to talk to. I can have more meaningful exchanges with people on here than in real life.

During COVID's lockdowns in 2020, I couldn't even get on here because I didn't have Internet access. The isolation was unbearable and I'm still recovering from it. I do think COVID has changed a lot of things and people seem to be more selfish and keeping to themselves more. I thought the opposite would happen. It didn't bring us together but divided us.

I don't go to any other forum except here. For one thing, others seem to have that "dislike" or "like" button that people can click. Or vote "up" or "down". I don't have a thick enough skin for that.

[Anonymous37919]

I don't like gaming forums anymore. I was active on a few recently. Felt their attitude left a lot to be desired, and my sister calls them a waste of time.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by nonightowl

I certainly HOPE this site isn't dying a slow death, as then I'd be dead since there's no real life people to talk to. I can have more meaningful exchanges with people on here than in real life.

During COVID's lockdowns in 2020, I couldn't even get on here because I didn't have Internet access. The isolation was unbearable and I'm still recovering from it. I do think COVID has changed a lot of things and people seem to be more selfish and keeping to themselves more. I thought the opposite would happen. It didn't bring us together but divided us.

I don't go to any other forum except here. For one thing, others seem to have that "dislike" or "like" button that people can click. Or vote "up" or "down". I don't have a thick enough skin for that.

I hope it's not dying a slow death too, I would be very sad if that happened since this is one of the most non-judgmental forums I've been on. I agree that Covid changed things, people are more selfish despite believing it would bring people together. The only other site I'm currently using is Quora and even though people can be helpful there as well, there's a much higher chance you will be judged to no end and that's really not a site you can talk about mental health on as well. All of this political crap also caused a great division among people, people are now more afraid to talk about things out of fear of being judged and I'll admit I'm afraid more so than I used to be as well due to the increasing number of judgmental people everywhere.

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

I hope it's not dying a slow death too, I would be very sad if that happened since this is one of the most non-judgmental forums I've been on. I agree that Covid changed things, people are more selfish despite believing it would bring people together. The only other site I'm currently using is Quora and even though people can be helpful there as well, there's a much higher chance you will be judged to no end and that's really not a site you can talk about mental health on as well. All of this political crap also caused a great division among people, people are now more afraid to talk about things out of fear of being judged and I'll admit I'm afraid more so than I used to be as well due to the increasing number of judgmental people everywhere.

At the grocery store during the beginning of this COVID thing, they kept saying over the PA system "We are all in this together." What BS I thought. If only everyone looked at it that way but some people didn't even believe it was real. And still don't.

Someone suggested I go on either Reddit or Quora too, that I might enjoy it, but after seeing how someone can vote your post down or up, I can't do that. Like you I don't bring up or get too involved in really divisive topics like Roe. I think this country is already in a "Civil War", just with mostly words. (I say mostly because there WAS January 6th.....)

I used to go to a site to post my comments on phone numbers that kept calling, like what the Caller ID said, if there was a message at all, etc. Even though not a social site, I liked posting info to help other people getting those calls too. Sometime after COVID, maybe in 2021, trolls started appearing on there. My comments would get ridiculed or even deleted, by these registered users who seemed to go on there just for that. Nothing helpful about the phone number, just bullying or belittling legit posts.

I went there over 10 years but it seems the so-called "moderators" ARE the trolls. They'd leave some posts "pending moderator approval" just to be mean. The site doesn't have the traffic it used to, and I found out it's not just me they post mean or juvenile comments to. Still, it was enough to keep me away now. In 2020 I actually didn't get any calls, and I couldn't go on there anyway.

Must have been in 2020 it started, because they had nothing to do but sit at home. They probably sat there all day combing the site, looking for posts to delete or ridicule. My only consolation is that if fewer people post, the trolls won't have anything to do or anyone to bully anymore. I don't even go there to view comments on a number, because I'll most likely see the troll's nasty comment to the poster.

I even stopped going to a beauty website that I went to for years. They changed it so you can vote someone's comments/reviews on a COSMETIC either up or down! So I abandoned it. There's enough meanness in the world and I experience enough, both online and in the real world. So I don't need that.

True about the judging. I confide in few people now, both online and in real life. Too much judgement, positivity and just BS.

[*Beth*]

Ehhh...I've had some good, loving connections on Fb - and I've had some viciously painful ones. One situation with a bullying group admin literally sent me IP. I just came apart.

I treasure this forum and wish it was more active. That said, there are plenty of times when I'm having a good day, come on this forum, and my day is ruined in a heartbeat by someone who is not a nice/supportive person. And sometimes that person is...the same person, who has repeatedly been snotty to me for no damned reason except that he's a real jerk. Strangely, he claims to be committed to his religion. Not a lovely example of a "religious" man. I have to tell myself, repeatedly, that his attitude is not about me.

I've been doing my best not to be online as much as I used to be. Whatever the format I get really tired of being hurt. There are times when I think back to the 80's and 90's before the internet and remember how much more peaceful AND productive my life was, in many ways. That said, I've made some wonderful connections online. But, yes, I need to limit the time I spend - and also learn to walk away instead of coming unglued when I have internet connection issues, which I've been having a lot lately.

Good, interesting thread.

[Nammu]

I hate how everything is now on fb. I want to check out the senior citizens trips, I’d really like to go on one of the trips to Amish county for fall leaf 🍁 sightseeing but now all the info is on fb. The art clubs, fb, the library book clubs, fb! My cousin just the other day mentioned fb and of course my daughter is on fb and would really like me to be. I’m weakening

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by *Beth*

Ehhh...I've had some good, loving connections on Fb - and I've had some viciously painful ones. One situation with a bullying group admin literally sent me IP. I just came apart.

I treasure this forum and wish it was more active. That said, there are plenty of times when I'm having a good day, come on this forum, and my day is ruined in a heartbeat by someone who is not a nice/supportive person. And sometimes that person is...the same person, who has repeatedly been snotty to me for no damned reason except that he's a real jerk. Strangely, he claims to be committed to his religion. Not a lovely example of a "religious" man. I have to tell myself, repeatedly, that his attitude is not about me.

I've been doing my best not to be online as much as I used to be. Whatever the format I get really tired of being hurt. There are times when I think back to the 80's and 90's before the internet and remember how much more peaceful AND productive my life was, in many ways. That said, I've made some wonderful connections online. But, yes, I need to limit the time I spend - and also learn to walk away instead of coming unglued when I have internet connection issues, which I've been having a lot lately.

Good, interesting thread.

What does IP mean, Beth? Above you said someone literally sent you IP.

This site used to be much busier. I don't know what happened but even I noticed. I say that because I don't get on here a lot, not daily that's for sure.

Some of the most religious people who claim to love their fellow man can be among the coldest and judgemental people out there.

Like you I'm trying not to be online as much as I used to. I have to be in the right place or mood to come on here, even though this is the only place I can socialize. You must be near my age as I also think of the 80's and 90's...well before the Internet and social media. It's not all it's cracked up to be, and because of the tech it's much easier to spread misinformation, bully, or spy! And in those days there was no scam emails/calls/texts since the technology didn't exist. Not saying scams didn't exist but it's much easier and faster for thieves now. They can send billions of texts or calls out by using a computer.

Geez, I remember when EMAIL was a novelty! Back then people called each other a lot, email was quite new. I remember when at one company we sometimes sent messages through something like an email. It used a modem and you heard the dialing/connecting. The message would print out on PAPER, on this green, striped paper with perforated strips you could tear off on both ends, LOL. If you ran out of paper, the message wouldn't print, ha ha. NO screen then.

When you say Internet connections, do you mean the technology, like the signal or do you mean the people that you connect with? It could be either, or both actually.....

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by nonightowl

What does IP mean, Beth? Above you said someone literally sent you IP.
Inpatient (IP), meaning psychiatric inpatient.

This site used to be much busier. I don't know what happened but even I noticed. I say that because I don't get on here a lot, not daily that's for sure.
Forums in general used to be much more popular. I think more people now frequent Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. instead of forums. I guess trendiness has to do with it.

Some of the most religious people who claim to love their fellow man can be among the coldest and judgemental people out there.

That's the darn sad truth!

Like you I'm trying not to be online as much as I used to. I have to be in the right place or mood to come on here, even though this is the only place I can socialize. You must be near my age as I also think of the 80's and 90's...well before the Internet and social media. It's not all it's cracked up to be, and because of the tech it's much easier to spread misinformation, bully, or spy! And in those days there was no scam emails/calls/texts since the technology didn't exist. Not saying scams didn't exist but it's much easier and faster for thieves now. They can send billions of texts or calls out by using a computer.
Too, too many ads online.Drives people nuts when we're trying to read an article and have to keep closing pop-ups. Many people are worried about security, yes.


I'm 59, born in 1962.

Geez, I remember when EMAIL was a novelty! Back then people called each other a lot, email was quite new. I remember when at one company we sometimes sent messages through something like an email. It used a modem and you heard the dialing/connecting. The message would print out on PAPER, on this green, striped paper with perforated strips you could tear off on both ends, LOL. If you ran out of paper, the message wouldn't print, ha ha. NO screen then.

Email was such fun and SO exciting! Just checking email once in the morning and once at night was an enhancement to life. Now, email is almost all crap stuff...spam, etc.

When you say Internet connections, do you mean the technology, like the signal or do you mean the people that you connect with? It could be either, or both actually.....

I mean the literal connection that the company (provider) charges me a fortune for. The wiring around here, in this town, is old. But the internet companies overload those old lines with new technology, so the entire situation becomes an entangled mess. Buuut...those companies sure do send their bills in a timely manner.

So, with all this complaining - I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't find an immense amount of relationship here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[nonightowl]

Beth, I like how you replied directly below each comment I made. I used to do that with emails, years ago. Formatting and colors too.

It won't let me quote it though, alas....

When I looked up the meaning of IP on social media, I thought you meant intellectual property on social media! That's why I ask people what they mean, because Googling doesn't always give me the right answer in the right context. People tell me to "just Google it" but it doesn't always work the way I hope or expect.

So you mean someone made you end up being an inpatient for treatment?

I never was on Facebook, Twitter, etc.and don't want to be. It doesn't seem as safe either.

You're right about the ads. I know they have to survive but they pop up in the most annoying places, like right in the middle of the screen over an article I'm reading. Often I run into paywalls.

In the old days, you could throw out (paper) junk mail and there wasn't nearly as much ELECTRONIC junk. I now shred my junk mail but it takes just a few minutes once a month. With stuff like email and text, I now get bombarded with either scam texts or some other junk. I have to spend time cleaning up my messages, something I never had to do with paper messages. Delete, block, archive, unsubscribe, etc. It's exhausting.

I'm 60 and will be 61 soon!

Email used to be sort of fun. We even had alerts (at work) that played a tune you liked and we had some fun stuff. I used to have Bart Simpson saying (like a rapper), "Yo, hey what's happening man?" That was my alert, LOL. Now it's worrying about "spoofed" emails and never open links in an email, etc.

Yeah, there's always somebody on here that can relate it seems.

[*Beth*]

It was almost four years ago @nonightowl and I was a member of a craft group on Facebook. An admin asked me to become an admin, too. I was happy to do so and agreed. Long story...basically, she and I had a mild disagreement about an event (local) that we were planning. To be bluntly honest? -I look back and I feel pretty sure that she was envious of my craft skills.

Anyway, she and one of her friends became vicious to me. Truly bullying. They were much younger than I, and much, much less sensitive in nature. It was the first anniversary of my precious sister's death (they didn't know that, nor would they have cared) and I was already in a fairly vulnerable place emotionally. Those two women would not stop. I so wanted to remain in the group because I was extremely lonely at the time and wanted something local to belong to.


I also belonged to a neighborhood exchange group (people giving/taking free items). I loved being part of that group because I had lots of cat items to give away (cans of food, bowls for the cats I had purchased, but never used, etc.). The woman who had begun tormenting me in the craft group was also admin of the neighborhood group. She blocked me from that group and Facebook would not intervene.She blocked me purely out of meanness.

I tried to report their behavior to Facebook and Fb wouldn't do a thing (they claim to be opposed to bullying - ha).

Sooo...one night I fell apart. Badly. I foolishly got on Facebook and posted that I was planning to do something to myself. A cousin of mine called 911. The cops showed up; they were anything but well-trained to deal with a mental health crisis. I was not violent in any way, but I was crying and saying, "I can't take this anymore." The cops jumped on me, held me down, handcuffed me, and pushed me into the back of a police SUV. I'm not a kid and I was physically hurt by being treated so roughly.

And that was how I ended up IP. The cruelty from those 2 women was just more than I could handle. I have been very cautious about Fb ever since that awful, terrifying experience. I use Fb primarily for messaging close friends and my kids. I seldom post there, except cute or amusing memes. And I wish friends a happy birthday.

Originally Posted by *Beth*

It was almost four years ago @nonightowl and I was a member of a craft group on Facebook. An admin asked me to become an admin, too. I was happy to do so and agreed. Long story...basically, she and I had a mild disagreement about an event (local) that we were planning. To be bluntly honest? -I look back and I feel pretty sure that she was envious of my craft skills.

Anyway, she and one of her friends became vicious to me. Truly bullying. They were much younger than I, and much, much less sensitive in nature. It was the first anniversary of my precious sister's death (they didn't know that, nor would they have cared) and I was already in a fairly vulnerable place emotionally. Those two women would not stop. I so wanted to remain in the group because I was extremely lonely at the time and wanted something local to belong to.


I also belonged to a neighborhood exchange group (people giving/taking free items). I loved being part of that group because I had lots of cat items to give away (cans of food, bowls for the cats I had purchased, but never used, etc.). The woman who had begun tormenting me in the craft group was also admin of the neighborhood group. She blocked me from that group and Facebook would not intervene.She blocked me purely out of meanness.

I tried to report their behavior to Facebook and Fb wouldn't do a thing (they claim to be opposed to bullying - ha).

Sooo...one night I fell apart. Badly. I foolishly got on Facebook and posted that I was planning to do something to myself. A cousin of mine called 911. The cops showed up; they were anything but well-trained to deal with a mental health crisis. I was not violent in any way, but I was crying and saying, "I can't take this anymore." The cops jumped on me, held me down, handcuffed me, and pushed me into the back of a police SUV. I'm not a kid and I was physically hurt by being treated so roughly.

And that was how I ended up IP. The cruelty from those 2 women was just more than I could handle. I have been very cautious about Fb ever since that awful, terrifying experience. I use Fb primarily for messaging close friends and my kids. I seldom post there, except cute or amusing memes. And I wish friends a happy birthday.

I am so sorry, Beth

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by willowtigger

I am so sorry, Beth

That's very kind of you, willowtigger. Thank you.

[Anonymous37919]

Somebody literally asked me to post my opinions on some subject. So I did, even though I had already done so in prior posts. Then the guy just put a laughing emoji as a response. Which to me, is the same thing as trolling.

I wasn't going to bother. Maybe I shouldn't have.

[AzulOscuro]

Originally Posted by *Beth*

Ehhh...I've had some good, loving connections on Fb - and I've had some viciously painful ones. One situation with a bullying group admin literally sent me IP. I just came apart.

I treasure this forum and wish it was more active. That said, there are plenty of times when I'm having a good day, come on this forum, and my day is ruined in a heartbeat by someone who is not a nice/supportive person. And sometimes that person is...the same person, who has repeatedly been snotty to me for no damned reason except that he's a real jerk. Strangely, he claims to be committed to his religion. Not a lovely example of a "religious" man. I have to tell myself, repeatedly, that his attitude is not about me.

I've been doing my best not to be online as much as I used to be. Whatever the format I get really tired of being hurt. There are times when I think back to the 80's and 90's before the internet and remember how much more peaceful AND productive my life was, in many ways. That said, I've made some wonderful connections online. But, yes, I need to limit the time I spend - and also learn to walk away instead of coming unglued when I have internet connection issues, which I've been having a lot lately.

Good, interesting thread.

How is it possible that a person may have the power to ruin your day here or wherever else? Does it make sense?

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by AzulOscuro

How is it possible that a person may have the power to ruin your day here or wherever else? Does it make sense?

Excuse me? I'm not clear as to what your post means.

Originally Posted by *Beth*

Excuse me? I'm not clear as to what your post means.

Originally Posted by AzulOscuro

How is it possible that a person may have the power to ruin your day here or wherever else? Does it make sense?

I think I know what Beth means, sometimes someone can get so attached to a website that anyone being cruel to them on that website can negatively affect their mental health

I've had it happen where (on a suicide prevention forum) the main admin there said something seriously cruel to me, which I don't want to repeat cause it could easily trigger others, and it could set me off again :/

[AzulOscuro]

I do understand it. Anyone can hurt you if you let them. I think a good support in these kind of online places is the opportunity to learn and evolve as a person. Sharing experiences, interacting and learning to interact in an assertive way. You can see your reactions towards others’ comments.

Being a person with mental issues doesn’t make of yourself a person with a thin skin.

I do think that one of the main problems with this site is that. Users are overprotected.
I know several users who don’t come here because they have seen their posts deleted or cut off without a logic reason.
It’s very hard to express yourself when you have to be so correct politically. I think education when communicating is more than enough.
People in general, and even more online, have an extremely thin skin.

I try to be as much as possible far from any activity on my phone. More than anything, I use it to check routes to places I want to visit and to listen to podcast.
I’m very aware that the internet must be on my service and not conversely. I prior the activities I do when I am disconnected.

Said that, the net gave me a lot of knowledge and support (in the large sense of the word). Friends and the partner of my life. 😀

[*Beth*]

You've explained the situation very well, @willowtigger. Thank you for that.

@AzulOscuro, did you read what I posted after the post of mine that you quoted? My extremely traumatic experience was in a Facebook crafting group, not on this forum. The problem occurred on Facebook.

I do have a "thin skin." I am a very sensitive person and I'm also a very empathetic person - which was a good part of the reason why those 2 women on Facebook tormented me the way they did. I often let people go too far and don't set healthy boundaries for myself until I have been abused.

As for members being protected here on this forum - in most cases I find that mods have a valid reason for letting a member know that something they've posted either needs to be corrected (for example, a trigger warning) or has been removed because it was potentially hurtful to the community here. I don't think the term "politically correct" applies, really...it's more "emotionally correct."

When a post is edited or removed, as far as I know the member is always informed about it by a mod, who sends the member a private message explaining the situation.

Originally Posted by *Beth*

You've explained the situation very well, @willowtigger. Thank you for that.

@AzulOscuro, did you read what I posted after the post of mine that you quoted? My extremely traumatic experience was in a Facebook crafting group, not on this forum. The problem occurred on Facebook.

I do have a "thin skin." I am a very sensitive person and I'm also a very empathetic person - which was a good part of the reason why those 2 women on Facebook tormented me the way they did. I often let people go too far and don't set healthy boundaries for myself until I have been abused.

As for members being protected here on this forum - in most cases I find that mods have a valid reason for letting a member know that something they've posted either needs to be corrected (for example, a trigger warning) or has been removed because it was potentially hurtful to the community here. I don't think the term "politically correct" applies, really...it's more "emotionally correct."

When a post is edited or removed, as far as I know the member is always informed about it by a mod, who sends the member a private message explaining the situation.

Occasionally, a message doesnt get sent cause they get busy with a something else, so there are times when a message doesnt get sent due to them having to juggle too many balls on the forum and one could get dropped

or at least, thats what i understand anyways

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by willowtigger

Occasionally, a message doesnt get sent cause they get busy with a something else, so there are times when a message doesnt get sent due to them having to juggle too many balls on the forum and one could get dropped
or at least, thats what i understand anyways

That's not good

Originally Posted by *Beth*

That's not good

Every forum has the same problem, things get missed cause something else kicks off

If you don't receive a message and notice a post got changed or removed, I'm guessing it's okay to ask in pm if you are not sure what was wrong

I know on the sadly closed forum, they was happy to get "why was my post removed/changed" messages cause if we didn't ask we never knew what we needed to stop doing

Other forums, however, have screamers where it ou ask anything they scream at you and throw you on the bad list, particularly when you upset admins pet member .....

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by willowtigger

I think I know what Beth means, sometimes someone can get so attached to a website that anyone being cruel to them on that website can negatively affect their mental health

I've had it happen where (on a suicide prevention forum) the main admin there said something seriously cruel to me, which I don't want to repeat cause it could easily trigger others, and it could set me off again :/

You did explain it well, Willow. I agree with Beth. And thank you for your kudos to me in that forum.

Personally I have to pace myself on here. I have to be in the right mood, even though MOST of the time it's supportive and validating. Since I don't have real life people, it's online or nothing. Still, I monitor how often I come on here and how much time I spend on it, what thread to post in, etc.

I don't go to any other forums so don't have anything to compare it to. And since I've found some nice people on here, if it ain't broke don't fix it. So I come here and no where else.

I've viewed posts on other forums but never posted myself or even registered (which you have to do, usually) I've seen some nasty crap, and I think the anonymity of being online has people saying things they wouldn't face to face.l Or even on the phone. I don't write anything I wouldn't say outloud! To the person's face or on the phone.

I might have said this already in this thread, but I stopped going to a site due to trolls. It's not a mental health site but one where you post comments/experiences about an unknown number that keeps calling you or a message a robocaller left. It's for information. But I stopped going due to my posts being deleted or ridiculed. I suspect the "moderators" and the trolls are the same people. I miss that site, but I don't need to be on the receiving end of meanness.

With all the gun violence, hate crimes, and just plain rudeness in this country, the last thing I need is more hate or rudeness.

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by AzulOscuro

I do understand it. Anyone can hurt you if you let them.

This implies that we know in advance what people will say/do, either online or in real life. I don't think anyone wants to "let" people hurt them but how do you know what people are really like, their true colors?

It's when you confide in them or you're vulnerable you find out. And all we can do is try to heal the best we can and watch out for those "red flags" in the future.

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by *Beth*

You've explained the situation very well, @willowtigger. Thank you for that.

@AzulOscuro, did you read what I posted after the post of mine that you quoted? My extremely traumatic experience was in a Facebook crafting group, not on this forum. The problem occurred on Facebook.

I do have a "thin skin." I am a very sensitive person and I'm also a very empathetic person - which was a good part of the reason why those 2 women on Facebook tormented me the way they did. I often let people go too far and don't set healthy boundaries for myself until I have been abused.

As for members being protected here on this forum - in most cases I find that mods have a valid reason for letting a member know that something they've posted either needs to be corrected (for example, a trigger warning) or has been removed because it was potentially hurtful to the community here. I don't think the term "politically correct" applies, really...it's more "emotionally correct."

When a post is edited or removed, as far as I know the member is always informed about it by a mod, who sends the member a private message explaining the situation.

I hear you, Beth. I'm also a sensitive and emphatic person. Heck, I even cringe when I read someone's mean comments to another member....anywhere online. Or in the real world.

Yesterday at the doctor's office I witnessed a man telling another man, very meanly, that he was trying to get by and why won't he move and why the ignoring of him. After he left I said to the guy that was chewed out that I'm sorry that happened to him.

I also have a "thin skin" and think for that reason I don't belong online at all. But if there's no real life option, then there's online worlds. It's a primal need for humans to connect, one way or another.

"Emotionally correct", that's a good phrase.

Yeah as far as I know, if posts are edited or removed, a moderator will PM the member.

I learned to be scared of messages from any forum staff, cause on a different forum, I did be on the recieving end of a screamer admin, so when I get a message from a forum staff it sends my anxiety rocket high in case it's a screamy message calling me a terrible person and really tearing into me, even for small mistakes

One example from a chat room: the main admin there laying into me for not being able to touch type so i missed something one of his moderators said, due to not looking at the screen at the exact second the moderator said something, so i typed something and sent it, then looked at the screen, then got screamed at by the admin in the chat room and banned from that chat, that chat is gone from the internets (not surprisised about that) I think they banned so many people from there they ended up with nobody on there any more ......... (i do know someone else they banned - he mentioned the existance of other forums, and got a ban for that)

banhappy old farts .......