[*Beth*]

I'm interested in discussing two terms I very frequently hear/read. I hope others have thoughts, opinions, experiences to share; I'm interested in reading and considering them.

I will request that this thread remain mature and respectful...please, no arguments or nastiness.
Thanks in advance.

The terms I am referring to are "narc" ("narcissist") and "toxic."

Okay, maybe I'm old-school, but when I initially began hearing the word "narc" I thought people were referring to this:

"The word narc is slang shorthand for 'narcotics agent,' a federal agent or police officer who specializes in laws dealing with illegal drugs. Narc is sometimes also used to mean 'police informant,' someone who secretly gives inside information to the police, informing on others who are engaging in illegal activity."

I grew up with, "Hey, are you gonna narc me out!?" - meaning, Are you going to tell someone about something I did or said that was a secret? "Narcing someone out" was a rotten, mean, nasty thing to do to a friend. It meant, in essence, "tattle-telling."

Of course, the word narc nowadays is often used as a shortened reference for "narcissist" meaning (this is a quote from Urban Dictionary):

Narcissist or narc: someone with high self-regard, who does what advances their well being, often to the exclusion of others' happiness.

I don't think the pop-culture term "narc" actually means "Narcissistic Personality Disorder"...or am I incorrect about that?

On to toxic.

Toxic is another term I hear a lot. I have done quite a bit of reading about what it means when someone is referred to as "toxic." Sometimes the definitions I've read make sense...more or less, yet sometimes it strikes me that someone who refers to someone else as "toxic" is themselves a narc Or, even more often, someone who calls another person toxic has toxic qualities in their own behavior - a "pot calling the kettle black" kind of thing.

I have never used the words narc or toxic to describe another person's behavior because those two terms are just too vague to me. Plus, the over-use of the words irritates me. I wish that people would use a more detailed thought process, a description, to explain what they mean when they say "He's a narc" or "She's a toxic person."

By now, and this is obviously my opinion, the terms are so overused they've lost all meaning; they sound like a drone to me. When someone uses the words my mind (or my eyes) just stop paying attention and I move on. I guess that the 2 words seem superficial to me.

So. Thoughts, ideas, experiences?

[*Beth*]

I want to clarify that my post is not about anyone specific (neither on the forum, nor IRL). My reference is about society, in general.

[unaluna]

Yeah narc makes me think of that Jump Street show. Or saved by the bell! Its not a good abbreviation. Like when people use frig for fridge. My mind goes another way!

I guess it's a language thing?

For example: the word "gay" (for example) used to mean happy - it now means someone who is attracted to the same gender as them

Or the word "retard" - now used as a insult for learning disabilities, originally meant fireproof (fire retardant)

i been called the r-word in the past

[Nammu]

Narc, still to me is an insult. Yes both words are way over used, as is gaslighting. Usually they are over used by people projecting them on to others.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Yeah narc makes me think of that Jump Street show. Or saved by the bell! Its not a good abbreviation. Like when people use frig for fridge. My mind goes another way!

Have you ever seen the movie Rush? (1991, with Jennifer Jason Leigh, Jason Patric, Sam Elliott, Max Perlich, Gregg Alman. Based on the autobiographical novel by Kim Wozencraft.)

A work of pure brilliance. Now, they were narcs.

[lizardlady]

Beth, to me "narc" refers to drug enforcement or ratting out someone. First time I saw it used as an abbreviation for narcissist I was confused. Methinks we are showing our age.

I think I am guilty of using "toxic" to describe someone whose behavior is, well, toxic.

There are so many psych terms that are misused/overused by society. "Trigger" makes me grind my teeth. As a person integrated from DID and who had "most" of the diagnostic criteria for PTSD it burns my butt to hear someone say they were "triggered" by something when what they mean is something made them uncomfortable.

Don't get me started on the people who self-diagnos mental health disorders. It is insulting and demeaning to those of us who do.

[downandlonely]

I have often found people just label those they don't like as narcissists or toxic. I sometimes question them and they can't even give me any reasons. I know we don't all get along, but I don't think it's fair to label other people that way. I don't use those terms.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by unaluna

...Like when people use frig for fridge. My mind goes another way!

Hahaha! I just now caught that

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by lizardlady

....
Don't get me started on the people who self-diagnos mental health disorders. It is insulting and demeaning to those of us who do.

Yes, perhaps we are, indeed, showing our age And oh! There are sooo many. "She is so OCD about everything!"

Age - and maybe I'm just pissy, too

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by downandlonely

I have often found people just label those they don't like as narcissists or toxic. I sometimes question them and they can't even give me any reasons. I know we don't all get along, but I don't think it's fair to label other people that way. I don't use those terms.

Yes! Yes! Yes! You've nailed it. "Those they don't like" - or "Those they don't agree with." One day someone is my best friend, we have a disagreement, so the next day they're "a toxic narc." Ugggh.

[MuddyBoots]

Narc still basically means undercover cop on the streets. I think saying "narc" for narcissist is strictly an internet thing. At least I've never heard it used that way irl.

[MuseumGhost]

Society at large, I think, loves to pick up jargon from elite levels of education, and every once in awhile, throw those words around like they know what they're talking about. Hence, the overuse of the terms "narc", and "toxic". It makes them appear hip, and smarter than other people in the room, I suppose.

There are always deeper layers to mental health terminology than any lay person could ever expect.

For my part, the situation is rather personal.

From what I have read over the last few years, when I began to suspect that I had been the victim of actual emotional abuse by several people close to me over the years, I also began to make distinctions between the different things I had been forced to endure.

I had, in my mind, over the years, realized that these individuals had genuinely earned the then-trendy label of "toxic", by varying degrees. I had been raised to believe there was an ounce of good in everybody, somewhere. But understanding that there were people with disordered thinking, who walked among us, well-disguised and often convincingly charming, likeable people (on the surface), was a revelation to me. It was the first step in a long self-therapy, and it enabled me to stop thinking of myself as a clueless doormat. So "toxic", unless it's used to wound an innocent person, doesn't bother me.

Subsequent to this, and after a lot of reading, I developed a much better understanding of what the DSM-5 considers to be Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and the sub-types of narcissistic tendencies. There are subtle, but clearly cut, differences.

At first, it was pretty confusing. But over time, and upon much reflection of certain interactions in my life, I was able to get my head around it. With understanding, came a lot of healing.

So, the same goes for the truncated "narc".

My own pet peeve is people whose lives have not been touched by mental illness
giving out over-simplified "advice" to people who are suffering. That's the one that really makes me see red!

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by MuddyBoots

Narc still basically means undercover cop on the streets. I think saying "narc" for narcissist is strictly an internet thing. At least I've never heard it used that way irl.

Hmmm...an excellent observation, Boots. Yeah, the last place I lived/escaped from, narc was most definitely not a pop-culture term. It was more along the lines of run in your house and close the curtains.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by MuseumGhost

...
My own pet peeve is people whose lives have not been touched by mental illness
giving out over-simplified "advice" to people who are suffering. That's the one that really makes me see red!

Yes, yes - or people who have a mental illness(es) themselves, refuse to seek proper treatment, but superficially proselytize to someone who is badly suffering. rrrrreeeddd!

Originally Posted by *Beth*

Yes, perhaps we are, indeed, showing our age And oh! There are sooo many. "She is so OCD about everything!"

Age - and maybe I'm just pissy, too

"I'm so OCD" yeah that one pisses me off

like at work, one person wipes something down then goes "sorry I'm so OCD"

[lizardlady]

Originally Posted by MuseumGhost

My own pet peeve is people whose lives have not been touched by mental illness
giving out over-simplified "advice" to people who are suffering. That's the one that really makes me see red!

Oh yes! Like those clueless souls who are depressed to "just cheer up" or "look on the bright side."

A few years ago in our area it became the "in" thing for teens to decide they had DID. As someone who worked her butt off in therapy to integrate it used to burn my butt.

[nonightowl]

Two words that are too, like, commonly used?? Like a word that you keep hearing that, like, means NOTHING???

LIKE! And a tie between "awesome" and "soc". I haven't heard anyone my age use the word "like" in a meaningless way in a sentence, just younger people: "It was, like, you know just so hot, that we,like, just cranked up the a/c and, like, stayed inside all day."

And everything is "awesome". "Soc" can be either short for social security number (That IS a mouthful) or "social" as in your social life or your social media activity..."And what's your soc?" In what context? And it's pronounced "sosh" rhyming with "soap", with the "-sh" sound.

Sidenote, "narc" to me has always been short for narcotics or an undercover narcotics cop; I don't know when it started being used as short for narcissistic but it bothers me.

This is technically a phrase and not just separate words, Beth, but I also hate "you know". NO, I don't know unless you tell me. "It was just too much trouble, you know?" No, I don't. Explain.

[unaluna]

Hey, like some boomers overuse "like" too, ya know!



"Soc" bothers me too!

Oh how about your car's VIN number. When VIN stands for vehicle identification NUMBER. When i worked at fords, people would always be up your butt about that. Not so much IIRC at GM. But i never worked at Chrysler.

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Hey, like some boomers overuse "like" too, ya know!



"Soc" bothers me too!

Oh how about your car's VIN number. When VIN stands for vehicle identification NUMBER. When i worked at fords, people would always be up your butt about that. Not so much IIRC at GM. But i never worked at Chrysler.

Well, I like, you know, LIKE to say "frig" instead of "refrigerator". I don't see the big tragedy in that.

What do you mean by people getting up your butt about VIN at Ford? What did they think it meant?

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by nonightowl

Well, I like, you know, LIKE to say "frig" instead of "refrigerator". I don't see the big tragedy in that.

What do you mean by people getting up your butt about VIN at Ford? What did they think it meant?

Yeah but you pronounce it "fridge", no? Im saying that "frig" is from like the expression, "no friggin' way!" Hard G. So i prefer people to spell it fridge.

Re at Ford. People would CORRECT you that VIN already contained "number" in it, so you were being redundant if you said "vin number". Usually to embarrass or humiliate you, because it really didnt matter.

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Yeah but you pronounce it "fridge", no? Im saying that "frig" is from like the expression, "no friggin' way!" Hard G. So i prefer people to spell it fridge.

Re at Ford. People would CORRECT you that VIN already contained "number" in it, so you were being redundant if you said "vin number". Usually to embarrass or humiliate you, because it really didnt matter.

Yeah, I pronounce it "fridge". Okay, so I spelled it wrong. Meant to write FRIDGE. Rough morning, many distractions like loud remodeling noise in the unit above me. I never heard "frig" as in "no friggin way" but then I'm not around people enough to possible hear these things. Being that "frig" is also a word, spell check didn't catch it. It doesn't catch syntax anyway.

True that it doesn't matter if someone says VIN number. It's petty to say that to someone.

Originally Posted by unaluna

Yeah but you pronounce it "fridge", no? Im saying that "frig" is from like the expression, "no friggin' way!" Hard G. So i prefer people to spell it fridge.

Re at Ford. People would CORRECT you that VIN already contained "number" in it, so you were being redundant if you said "vin number". Usually to embarrass or humiliate you, because it really didnt matter.

it'll be like PIN number then

like when a bank card is being used

PIN number means Personal Identification Number, so having the word number on the end of it, means your saying personal identification number number

not that i personally ever correct anyone about that

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by willowtigger

it'll be like PIN number then

like when a bank card is being used

PIN number means Personal Identification Number, so having the word number on the end of it, means your saying personal identification number number

not that i personally ever correct anyone about that

Yeah I sometimes hear that, but usually they just say PIN.

Or "hot water heater". It's water heater. If it's hot, it doesn't need to be heated.

Originally Posted by nonightowl

Yeah I sometimes hear that, but usually they just say PIN.

Or "hot water heater". It's water heater. If it's hot, it doesn't need to be heated.

I admit I'm guilty of saying PIN number