Very disobedient 4 year old

My 4 yr old son seems to be getting more and more disobedient every day. Quick background. He's the oldest of two-boys. My second is just 2 yrs old last week. Wife was a trouble maker as a child, and I was the "played well with others" type. Yup, we blame my wife for his behaviour. (jokingly)

He is a wonderful son. He's loving, funny, brilliant, and has endless energy. BUT, he is very disobedient. NEVER listens to either of us, countless time outs don't help. Spankings stop the bad behaviour in it's tracks but the next day, he's back to his antics. He cries the second he doesn't get his way. Takes forever to eat meals, and now we've even gotten a letter from school stating that he's on a list of children to watch due to behaviour. He's in kindergarden.

We are at the point of speaking to our doctor about ADHD. My research online suggests that he could be a candidate, but there are some tell-tail signs he doesn't posses.

Side note - he has trouble sleeping. he wakes at least 2 or 3 times a night for no reason. No nightmares - just wakes up and asks to be tucked back in, or asks to go play at his friends house, or any other excuse he can think of not to go back to bed.

We're at the end of our leash here and not sure which way to go with things. Grandparents on both sides think he's just hyper, but they only see small amounts of his behaviour / attitude.

Any thoughts?

Welcome to PC, Ca2013. It is not clear if you have taken your son see his doctor. Your son's doctor may have some ideas, including a referral to an expert.

Good luck.

1. Give him 1 mg melitonan at night.
2. Take him to a children's hospital where they can rule out sensory issues, medical issues and other health issues before labeling him adhd. At the very least get an occupational therapy evaluation, and a psychiatrist eval. a lot of things can look or over lap with adhd.
3. For us bed-time is quiet time in your room. If you come out of your room, you call us in, or there's to much noise it's real bed time. We use a flashlight and books to look at only. Whether his mind is at rest doesn't matter his body is.

Will write more when able.

if a 4yr old acts out to this extent there's a reason ... medical or parenting faults!

SPANKING ... would you be beat into submission? and a 4yr old is still developing, they're not a grown-up and can't be expected to act as such ... plus they only learn what you teach them! jmo.

children of 4 need consistency, chose a consequence for each action and stick to it, do not change the consequence each time.

things to try could be:

a star chart - chose a time when your son is calm, explain to him that you have a preasent for him, show him a pack of gold star stickers and a piece of paper, do not give him them! explain that the piece of paper is for his collection of stars, ask him where he would like the paper sticking up (stick it at a height he can reach) explain to him that everytime he stays in bed the whole night without getting up , or whenever he does what you ask without arguing etc ...choose the things that really bug you and use those, explain to your son that when ha has ten stickers you will take him to the park or let him watch his favourite DVD or some other cheap/free treat. whenever he does one of the things you have discussed, you give him a star sticker for his collection, when he reaches ten follow through with the treat. this way you are rewarding the good behaviour rather than punishing the bad. the phrase 'do you want to get a star' or 'if you do ....you will not be getting a star' is often all it takes for behaviour to change!

at breakfast talk to your son about what is happening that day, end it with something nice e.g. daddy will read you two stories at bed time, but if your teacher tells me you have not been good at school today then daddy will not read any stories tonight. follow this through.

arm yourself with paper and a pen choose a calm time, sit with your son on the sofa or his bed, explain calmly to him that you love him very much, but there are some things he does that you do not like/upset you. ask him if there are any things that you or his mummy do that upset him or make him feel cross or sad or scared. listen to what he says, do not laugh, everything he says is relevant. once he has told you, take one of the things he told you about, ask him what he would like you to do instead, then what he thinks would be a good thing to happen if you don't do what he said. then write on the paper I daddy agree thatr i8 will not do ..., if i do then ....... will happen. then do the same in reverse, you tell him one behaviour that upsets you, tell him an acceptible alternative and what will happen if he does not stick to the alternative. then let him say one for you to stick to , continue until you have covered all the problems(try to keep it to max of 4 or he will have too many to remember! you can always revisit and change this when the first ones are no longer a problem) then read out loud thethings you have written down, explain that this is an agreement and that means you all have to stick to it or the agreed thing will happen. then everyone including your son 'signs' it and stick it on the fridge for all to see. you have to be prepared to stick to your end of the agreement or take the agreed punishment too! this way your son feels more in control of his life and of you, eventhough really you are changing his negative behaviour for good! you may be suprised what he comes out with, it could be anything you do that upsets him from smacking him or shouting or even snoring during batman, it could reveal deeper things like for example i had a child who was upset because daddy never was home for supper, or a mummy who goes to work before the child was woken up, or the child who never got to choose what happened at the weekend after a week in school, this one agreed that one weekend a month mummy would let her choose what they did on the saturday, and if it did not happen the mummy had to play barbies with her for one hour every night for a week! mummy only forgot to ask her once!

yellowted gave you excellent advice.

I would add to that:

1. Remove refined sugar / artificial colors / caffeine / processed foods from his diet.
2. Make sure that he gets 2 hours of play time outdoors every day.
3. No t.v. / computer before bed.
4. Allow your son as many safe and healthy choices as possible. Kids, just like adults, like to have some agency in their own lives and have some control over themselves.

Very young children understand positive enforcement long before they understand negative. Think about how much you discipline him in one day, count, and then compare to how much you reward him (with hugs, nice words, something he wants to do etc). If you are using as much disciplining as positive stuff or maybe even more!!! you are doing it wrong and you just try to break his spirits.

IMO.

Thanks everyone.

Tried melitonan as prescribed by a specialist. Didn't stop his nighttime wake ups. Just made him fall asleep quicker, which he has never had problems doing.

Yellowted, great advice.

Our kids eat healthy snacks and haven't had tv / computer / vid games before bed for a year now.

Next step is doc appt to address the situation I think.