[Tprice]

Growing up I was well above average when it came to intelligence and I not only knew it myself but I was constantly told so by parents, relatives, friends later on, etc. I always felt that the education system was holding me back more than anything else, I learned most of what I know from independent research and was smarter than most of the adults in my life. I thought of myself as a miniature adult and it drove me insane that my idiot neighbor could vote and I couldn't even though I was way more qualified. Thanks to Asperger's Syndrome I did not have the social skills necessary to succeed in middle school and that led to extremely vicious bullying. Even during that I had a very strong sense of self and preserved my own identity against everyone who wanted to beat me into submission. I eventually taught myself how to interact socially and went from being at the bottom of the social strata to the top like in that movie "The New Guy." (Without the part in the beginning with the librarian) Since then I have excelled at my major and minor in college to the point where I have almost achieved rock star status in the respective departments. In fact the most narcissistic person I have ever met told me "I hate being in class with you because when I am I'm only second best." On top of that I have an active social life in contrast to what I had before which is a source of pride for me. I took the narcissistic personality inventory test on psych central and the results suggested that I was a narcissist in every category but one, vanity. I have never been comfortable showing off my body but my intellect is a completely different story. I always want to make sure everyone knows I'm the smartest person in the room, I corrected teachers growing up and even one of my professors once. The only time I ever doubt myself is when I have multiple failures at a particular endeavor, recently it has been my foreign language class which was torture and my dismal record with women. In those two categories I have very low self esteem but it is compartmentalized. In most of the other aspects of my life everything is going incredibly and I know it. Am I an atypical narcissist or is this just normal self-esteem?

[shakespeare47]

If I understand NPD, then those with the disorder actually have a fragile self-esteem, but they cover it up by acting superior, and by putting everyone else down. They tend to be very sensitive to any type of criticism.

If you scored high on the test, then it is certainly a possibility that you have the disorder. Have you considered seeing a counselor about it?

Another thing about most NPD's is that they have had very tragic childhood's. Either there was a significant amount of abuse and/or neglect, or they were just spoiled rotten somehow (which itself is a form of abuse, and not something the victim is responsible for).

NPD is almost certainly a reaction to problems caused by a problematic (traumatic, terrible, abusive) childhood.

[Teacake]

Originally Posted by shakespeare47

If I understand NPD, then those with the disorder actually have a fragile self-esteem, but they cover it up by acting superior, and by putting everyone else down. They tend to be very sensitive to any type of criticism.

If you scored high on the test, then it is certainly a possibility that you have the disorder. Have you considered seeing a counselor about it?

Another thing about most NPD's is that they have had very tragic childhood's. Either there was a significant amount of abuse and/or neglect, or they were just spoiled rotten somehow (which itself is a form of abuse, and not something the victim is responsible for).

NPD is almost certainly a reaction to problems caused by a problematic (traumatic, terrible, abusive) childhood.

I'm not so sure a childhood has to be traumatic, terrible or abusive to produce a narcissist. The absence of a good enough mother at crucial states can do it too. Mothers who work because they dont understand what motherhood Is may love their children and may provide safe good lives for them, but still produce narcissists.

[shakespeare47]

Originally Posted by Teacake

I'm not so sure a childhood has to be traumatic, terrible or abusive to produce a narcissist. The absence of a good enough mother at crucial states can do it too. Mothers who work because they dont understand what motherhood Is may love their children and may provide safe good lives for them, but still produce narcissists.

Well this is coming from someone who shows all the traits.... I know my own childhood was pretty bad. And the stories of others who shared their background were pretty tragic.

But, having an uncaring mother would be pretty tragic in and of itself.
I'm not a mental health professional... So, I don't know about the degrees of hurt, or types of hurt that cause people to have narcissistic traits... but, I do feel a lot of compassion for them. No one would choose to be this way... I know I didn't.

But, there are times I wonder if complex-PTSD might be a better fit for me.

[Teacake]

Tprice, you dont sound like a narcissist to me. You sound like an intelligent person wirh typical gifted kid issues and maybe Asperger's. Its pretty normal for gifted kids to be way out of sync with their agemates around jr high. We develop differently.

You seem to have a healthy sense of self. Narcissists dont. They are empty masks.

So...not a narcissist. Just a smart person.

[Tprice]

Ok, thanks for your responses. My brother accused me of being a narcissist. Honestly I am a little self centered and I don't always see opportunities to help people that others do. Maybe I am just comparing myself to my overly selfless and altruistic friends haha

[shakespeare47]

Everyone acts like a narcissist from time to time. And people love to throw accusations around.. But, to be diagnosed (by a professional) as having Narcissistic Personality Disorder, one must meet these criteria...

Narcissistic DSM IV Criteria

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

[shakespeare47]

Here is a little more...

What is a personality disorder?
[from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition, 1994, commonly referred to as DSM-IV, of the American Psychiatric Association. European countries use the diagnostic criteria of the World Health Organization.] An enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates markedly from the expectation of the individual's culture, is pervasive and inflexible, has an onset in adolescence or early adulthood, is stable over time, and leads to distress or impairment.
A personality disorder is a pattern of deviant or abnormal behavior that the person doesn't change even though it causes emotional upsets and trouble with other people at work and in personal relationships. It is not limited to episodes of mental illness, and it is not caused by drug or alcohol use, head injury, or illness. There are about a dozen different behavior patterns classified as personality disorders by DSM-IV. All the personality disorders show up as deviations from normal in one or more of the following:
(1) cognition -- i.e., perception, thinking, and interpretation of oneself, other people, and events;
(2) affectivity -- i.e., emotional responses (range, intensity, lability, appropriateness);
(3) interpersonal functions;
(4) impulsivity.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder
While grandiosity is the diagnostic hallmark of pathological narcissism, there is research evidence that pathological narcissism occurs in two forms, (a) a grandiose state of mind in young adults that can be corrected by life experiences, and (b) the stable disorder described in DSM-IV, which is defined less by grandiosity than by severely disturbed interpersonal relations.
The preferred theory seems to be that narcissism is caused by very early affective deprivation, yet the clinical material tends to describe narcissists as unwilling rather than unable, thus treating narcissistic behaviors as volitional -- that is, narcissism is termed a personality disorder, but it tends to be discussed as a character disorder. This distinction is important to prognosis and treatment possibilities. If NPD is caused by infantile damage and consequent developmental short-circuits, it probably represents an irremediable condition. On the other hand, if narcissism is a behavior pattern that's learned, then there is some hope, however tenuous, that it's a behavior pattern that can be unlearned. The clinical literature on NPD is highly theoretical, abstract, and general, with sparse case material, suggesting that clinical writers have little experience with narcissism in the flesh. There are several reasons for this to be so:
-- The incidence of NPD is estimated at 1% in the general population, though I haven't been able to discover the basis of this estimate.
-- Narcissists rarely enter treatment and, once in treatment, progress very slowly. We're talking about two or more years of frequent sessions before the narcissist can acknowledge even that the therapist is sometimes helpful. It's difficult to keep narcissists in treatment long enough for improvement to be made -- and few people, narcissists or not, have the motivation or the money to pursue treatment that produces so little so late.
-- Because of the influence of third-party payers (insurance companies), there has been a strong trend towards short-term therapy that concentrates on ameliorating acute troubles, such as depression, rather than delving into underlying chronic problems. Narcissists are very reluctant to open up and trust, so it's possible that their NPD is not even recognized by therapists in short-term treatment. Purely anecdotal evidence from correspondents and from observations of people I know indicates that selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors, such as Prozac, aggravate narcissists' grandiosity and lack of social inhibition. It has also been suggested that self-help literature about bolstering self-esteem and getting what you want out of life or that encourages the feeling of victimization has aggravating effects on NPD thinking and behavior.
-- Most clinical writers seem unaware that narcissists' self-reports are unreliable. This is troubling, considering that lying is the most common complaint about narcissists and that, in many instances, defects of empathy lead narcissists to wildly inaccurate misinterpretations of other people's speech and actions, so that they may believe that they are liked and respected despite a history of callous and exploitative personal interactions.

[from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition, 1994, commonly referred to as DSM-IV, of the American Psychiatric Association. European countries use the diagnostic criteria of the World Health Organization.] A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy.[jma: NPD first appeared in DSM-III in 1980; before that time there had been no formal diagnostic description. Additionally, there is considerable overlap between personality disorders and clinicians tend to diagnose mixes of two or more. Grandiosity is a special case, but lack of empathy and exploitative interpersonal relations are not unique to NPD, nor is the need to be seen as special or unique. The differential diagnosis of NPD is made on the absence of specific gross behaviors. Borderline Personality Disorder has several conspicuous similarities to NPD, but BPD is characterized by self-injury and threatened or attempted suicide, whereas narcissists are rarely self-harming in this way. BPD may include psychotic breaks, and these are uncharacteristic of NPD but not unknown. The need for constant attention is also found in Histrionic Personality Disorder, but HPD and BPD are both strongly oriented towards relationships, whereas NPD is characterized by aloofness and avoidance of intimacy. Grandiosity is unique to NPD among personality disorders, but it is found in other psychiatric illnesses. Psychopaths display pathological narcissism, including grandiosity, but psychopathy is differentiated from NPD by psychopaths' willingness to use physical violence to get what they want, whereas narcissists rarely commit crimes; the narcissists I've known personally are, in fact, averse to physical contact with others, though they will occasionally strike out in an impulse of rage. It has been found that court-ordered psychotherapy for psychopaths actually increases their recidivism rate; apparently treatment teaches psychopaths new ways to exploit other people. Bipolar illness also contains strong elements of grandiosity. See more on grandiosity and empathy and its lack below.]The disorder begins by early adulthood and is indicated by at least five of the following:

Translation: Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a pattern of self-centered or egotistical behavior that shows up in thinking and behavior in a lot of different situations and activities. People with NPD won't (or can't) change their behavior even when it causes problems at work or when other people complain about the way they act, or when their behavior causes a lot of emotional distress to others (or themselves? none of my narcissists ever admit to being distressed by their own behavior -- they always blame other people for any problems). This pattern of self-centered or egotistical behavior is not caused by current drug or alcohol use, head injury, acute psychotic episodes, or any other illness, but has been going on steadily at least since adolescence or early adulthood.
NPD interferes with people's functioning in their occupations and in their relationships:
Mild impairment when self-centered or egotistical behavior results in occasional minor problems, but the person is generally doing pretty well.
Moderate impairment when self-centered or egotistical behavior results in: (a) missing days from work, household duties, or school, (b) significant performance problems as a wage-earner, homemaker, or student, (c) frequently avoiding or alienating friends, (d) significant risk of harming self or others (frequent suicidal preoccupation; often neglecting family, or frequently abusing others or committing criminal acts).
Severe impairment when self-centered or egotistical behavior results in: (a) staying in bed all day, (b) totally alienating all friends and family, (c) severe risk of harming self or others (failing to maintain personal hygiene; persistent danger of suicide, abuse, or crime).

1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
Translation: Grandiosity is the hallmark of narcissism. So what is grandiose?
The simplest everyday way that narcissists show their exaggerated sense of self-importance is by talking about family, work, life in general as if there is nobody else in the picture. Whatever they may be doing, in their own view, they are the star, and they give the impression that they are bearing heroic responsibility for their family or department or company, that they have to take care of everything because their spouses or co-workers are undependable, uncooperative, or otherwise unfit. They ignore or denigrate the abilities and contributions of others and complain that they receive no help at all; they may inspire your sympathy or admiration for their stoicism in the face of hardship or unstinting self-sacrifice for the good of (undeserving) others. But this everyday grandiosity is an aspect of narcissism that you may never catch on to unless you visit the narcissist's home or workplace and see for yourself that others are involved and are pulling their share of the load and, more often than not, are also pulling the narcissist's share as well. An example is the older woman who told me with a sigh that she knew she hadn't been a perfect mother but she just never had any help at all -- and she said this despite knowing that I knew that she had worn out and discarded two devoted husbands and had lived in her parents' pocket (and pocketbook) as long as they lived, quickly blowing her substantial inheritance on flaky business schemes. Another example is claiming unusual benefits or spectacular results from ordinary effort and investment, giving the impression that somehow the narcissist's time and money are worth more than other people's. [Here is an article about recognizing and coping with narcissism in the workplace; it is rather heavy on management jargon and psychobabble, but worth reading. "The Impact of Narcissism on Leadership and Sustainability" by Bruce Gregory, Ph.D. "When the narcissistic defense is operating in an interpersonal or group setting, the grandiose part does not show its face in public. In public it presents a front of patience, congeniality, and confident reasonableness."]
In popular usage, the terms narcissism, narcissist, and narcissistic denote absurd vanity and are applied to people whose ambitions and aspirations are much grander than their evident talents. Sometimes these terms are applied to people who are simply full of themselves -- even when their real achievements are spectacular. Outstanding performers are not always modest, but they aren't grandiose if their self-assessments are realistic; e.g., Muhammad Ali, then Cassius Clay, was notorious for boasting "I am the greatest!" and also pointing out that he was the prettiest, but he was the greatest and the prettiest for a number of years, so his self-assessments weren't grandiose. Some narcissists are flamboyantly boastful and self-aggrandizing, but many are inconspicuous in public, saving their conceit and autocratic opinions for their nearest and dearest. Common conspicuous grandiose behaviors include expecting special treatment or admiration on the basis of claiming (a) to know important, powerful or famous people or (b) to be extraordinarily intelligent or talented. As a real-life example, I used to have a neighbor who told his wife that he was the youngest person since Sir Isaac Newton to take a doctorate at Oxford. The neighbor gave no evidence of a world-class education, so I looked up Newton and found out that Newton had completed his baccalaureate at the age of twenty-two (like most people) and spent his entire academic career at Cambridge. The grandiose claims of narcissists are superficially plausible fabrications, readily punctured by a little critical consideration. The test is performance: do they deliver the goods? (There's also the special situation of a genius who's also strongly narcissistic, as perhaps Frank Lloyd Wright. Just remind yourself that the odds are that you'll meet at least 1000 narcissists for every genius you come across.) [More on grandiosity.]

2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
Translation: Narcissists cultivate solipsistic or "autistic" fantasies, which is to say that they live in their own little worlds (and react with affront when reality dares to intrude).

3. Believes he is "special" and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
Translation: Narcissists think that everyone who is not special and superior is worthless. By definition, normal, ordinary, and average aren't special and superior, and so, to narcissists, they are worthless.

4. Requires excessive admiration
Translation: Excessive in two ways: they want praise, compliments, deference, and expressions of envy all the time, and they want to be told that everything they do is better than what others can do. Sincerity is not an issue here; all that matter are frequency and volume.

5. Has a sense of entitlement
Translation: They expect automatic compliance with their wishes or especially favorable treatment, such as thinking that they should always be able to go first and that other people should stop whatever they're doing to do what the narcissists want, and may react with hurt or rage when these expectations are frustrated.

6. Selfishly takes advantage of others to achieve his own ends
Translation: Narcissists use other people to get what they want without caring about the cost to the other people.

7. Lacks empathy
Translation: They are unwilling to recognize or sympathize with other people's feelings and needs. They "tune out" when other people want to talk about their own problems.
In clinical terms, empathy is the ability to recognize and interpret other people's emotions. Lack of empathy may take two different directions: (a) accurate interpretation of others' emotions with no concern for others' distress, which is characteristic of psychopaths; and (b) the inability to recognize and accurately interpret other people's emotions, which is the NPD style. This second form of defective empathy may (rarely) go so far as alexithymia, or no words for emotions, and is found with psychosomatic illnesses, i.e., medical conditions in which emotion is experienced somatically rather than psychically. People with personality disorders don't have the normal body-ego identification and regard their bodies only instrumentally, i.e., as tools to use to get what they want, or, in bad states, as torture chambers that inflict on them meaningless suffering. Self-described narcissists who've written to me say that they are aware that their feelings are different from other people's, mostly that they feel less, both in strength and variety (and which the narcissists interpret as evidence of their own superiority); some narcissists report "numbness" and the inability to perceive meaning in other people's emotions.

8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him
Translation: No translation needed.

9. Shows arrogant, haughty, patronizing, or contemptuous behaviors or attitudes
Translation: They treat other people like dirt.

[shakespeare47]

^It's interesting that everyone keeps making a big deal of lack of empathy.... but, if you look at the criteria above, to be diagnosed as having NPD, one must exhibit only 5 of the traits.... so, if I read the criteria correctly, it appears one can be a narcissist and not have a problem with feeling/showing empathy.

[Mattmx]

Originally Posted by shakespeare47

^It's interesting that everyone keeps making a big deal of lack of empathy.... but, if you look at the criteria above, to be diagnosed as having NPD, one must exhibit only 5 of the traits.... so, if I read the criteria correctly, it appears one can be a narcissist and not have a problem with feeling/showing empathy.

I agree, however the DSM-IV is outdated as the fifth edition is out now I myself have been diagnosed with a disorder that is known for a lack of empathy, but I don't feel I have it. If anything, I think I understand why others react the way they do better than others because I dont have that emotional roadblock and can look at things objectively.

[shakespeare47]

I don't believe any changes were made to the DSM-V in regards to NPD.

[shakespeare47]

Here is what wikipedia has to say about NPD and the DSM-V

DSM-5

The formulation of narcissistic personality disorder in DSM-IV was criticised for failing to describe the range and complexity of the disorder. Critics say it focuses overly on "the narcissistic individual's external, symptomatic, or social interpersonal patterns—at the expense of ... internal complexity and individual suffering," which reduces its clinical utility.[30]
The Personality and Personality Disorders Work Group originally proposed the elimination of NPD as a distinct disorder in DSM-5 as part of a major revamping of the diagnostic criteria for personality disorders,[31][32] replacing a categorical with a dimensional approach based on the severity of dysfunctional personality trait domains.
Some clinicians objected to this, characterizing the new diagnostic system as an "unwieldy conglomeration of disparate models that cannot happily coexist" and may have limited usefulness in clinical practice.[33]
In July 2011, the Work Group came back with a major revision to their original proposal. In this revision, NPD was reinstated with dramatic changes to its definition.[34] The general move towards a dimensional (personality trait-based) view of the Personality Disorders has been maintained despite the reintroduction of NPD.

these 2 articles also appear to be relevant, but I can't read them, unless I want to pay.
here are the abstracts:

One

Narcissistic Personality Disorder in DSM-5.

Skodol AE, Bender DS, Morey LC.
Abstract

The criteria for personality disorders in Section II of DSM-5 have not changed from those in DSM-IV. Therefore, the diagnosis of Section II narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) will perpetuate all of the well-enumerated shortcomings associated with the diagnosis since DSM-III. In this article, we will briefly review problems associated with Section II NPD and then discuss the evolution of a new model of personality disorder and the place in the model of pathological narcissism and NPD. The new model was intended to be the official approach to the diagnosis of personality pathology in DSM-5, but was ultimately placed as an alternative in Section III for further study. The new model is a categorical-dimensional hybrid based on the assessment of core elements of personality functioning and of pathological personality traits. The specific criteria for NPD were intended to rectify some of the shortcomings of the DSM-IV representation by acknowledging both grandiose and vulnerable aspects, overt and covert presentations, and the dimensionality of narcissism. In addition, criteria were assigned and diagnostic thresholds set based on empirical data. The Section III representation of narcissistic phenomena using dimensions of self and interpersonal functioning and relevant traits offers a significant improvement over Section II NPD. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2013 APA, all rights reserved).

and two.

Narcissistic personality disorder and the DSM-V.

Miller JD1, Widiger TA, Campbell WK.
Author information

Abstract

We address 3 issues relevant to narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) and the DSM-V. First, we argue that excluding NPD while retaining other traditional personality disorder constructs (e.g., avoidant) makes little sense given the research literature on NPD and trait narcissism and their association with clinically relevant consequences such as aggression, self-enhancement, distorted self-presentation, failed relationships, cognitive biases, and internalizing and externalizing dysregulation. Second, we argue that the DSM-V must include content (in diagnostic form or within a dimensional trait model) that allows for the assessment of both grandiose and vulnerable variants of narcissism. Finally, we suggest that any dimensional classification of personality disorder should recover all of the important component traits of narcissism and be provided with official recognition in the coding system.
PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved

[shakespeare47]

If I read this correctly (from the wiki article),

—at the expense of ... internal complexity and individual suffering," which reduces its clinical utility.[30]

then it appears those in the mental health field are acknowledging that they may have misjudged those with NPD, because they didn't take into consideration how painful it can be to live with NPD.

Here is what the wiki article references.. again, I can only supply the abstract.

Current Psychiatry Reports
February 2010, Volume 12, Issue 1, pp 68-75
Date: 08 Jan 2010
Narcissistic Personality Disorder: A Current Review

• Elsa Ronningstam

Abstract

The diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder in the DSM-IV has been criticized foremost for its limitations in capturing the range and complexity of narcissistic pathology. The attention to the narcissistic individual’s external, symptomatic, or social interpersonal patterns—at the expense of his or her internal complexity and individual suffering—has also added to the diagnosis’ low clinical utility and limited guidance for treatment. Recent studies and reviews have pointed to the need for change in the diagnostic approach to and formulation of narcissism. This review focuses specifically on studies of features that add to the identification, understanding, and treatment of patients with pathological narcissistic functioning and narcissistic personality disorder. They have been integrated into a regulatory model that includes the functions and fluctuations of internal control, self-esteem, perfectionism with accompanying self-criticism, shame, and empathic ability and functioning.

I see this as a very good thing!