[possum220]

Sorry peeps didn't know where to put this but I would really love some feedback from people who have had a course of TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Simulation) which is currently in the research phase over in Victoria, Australia. Or even just knows of some-one who has. It is also being used in other countries as well.

It is being used to treat major depression and a number of other ailments. I have met some-one who has been very depressed and never said a word to any-one. Now she is like a whole different person and is much happier.

I asked my shrink if I could have it - and he said I would be a candidate.

Right now I would just like some feed back from people about what they think of it. Or knows some-one who has and what do they think.

Please Please

[crystalrose]

oh interesting, Is there anymore information that explains it a bit more. What conditions does it aim to treat?

[shezbut]

I haven't had TMS, but I do know a couple of people who have had it to treat migraine headaches and back pain.

Both raved about the relief the TMS provided for them. None of the medications were relieving the intense level of pain they were under beforehand. The TMS does require regular treatments at first. From there, the TMS is a few treatments every 6 months or so.

I don't know anyone who has had the treatments for depression yet. I do know many who've had shock therapy though. The shock treatments are much more extreme, imo. I've seen great success, huge failure, and the majority of people somewhere in between (not feeling a lot better, and suffering memory defecits).

Best wishes to you!
Shez

[Rmdctc]

Anyone have a good website for info about this?

[GrayNess]

We discussed TMS in our neuropsychology course and I think it may be in our clinical neuroscience course although we haven't gotten to the mood disorders part of it yet. From what I've read about it, it's a great procedure and produces fantastic results in patients. TMS is basically a figure-eight or sideways "8" very powerful magnet that through some technology, is able to stimulate the neurons in a given area of the brain. The person who gives the TMS treatment knowns roughly where to put the magnet based on what previous research has shown and they may provide a MRI scan of the individual patient.

The good thing about it is that it can treat numerous disorders because it can activate different brain areas depending where it is placed. However, I believe that it's meant mostly for mood disorders and possibly also anxiety disorders. I think it can be used for other disorders, although mood and anxiety disorders are the main focus. The other good thing is that it's non-evasive and you don't have to ingest any medications and deal with the long list of side-effects.

The one bad thing that I see in it, which really isn't as bad as other forms of treatment are, is that it may be temporary, in that you may need to return for more TMS treatments. I say it's not something "bad" because it's something to be expected with pretty much all forms of treatment. The other bad thing though is that since it's somewhat new, although it's not the newest form of neuro-technology, is that it may be expensive. I'm not sure how many insurances cover TMS treatment and for how many trials they do, assuming that they do cover it. The last bad thing, which has to do with it being new and popular is that there may be a waitlist. It's a wonderful form of treatment, non-evasive, simple to have done, etc... and so people want it, although only a limited amount of places perform it. Once again, I'm not sure how long the waitlists are but since the actual treatment process is not too long, I suspect that the waitlists shouldn't take too long, however, this is purely a guess on my part.

You also mentioned "shock therapies" and they've come a long way from how they originally started, not to mention how the initial research was done, I view shock therapies as more harmful. My grandmother had to have a few sessions of "shock therapy" and there was a brief time when she had some foggy memories. Bare in mind, despite her age, her memory is astounding although the fogginess went away fairly fast. However, as with TMS, shock therapies require multiple sessions as it is only a temporary treatment. It varies for individuals in how often they will require the shock therapies. The reason I view it as a lot more harmful than TMS treatment is that shock therapies are pretty much sending a large electrical current to "reset" your brain. Your brain can be thought of as an electrical engine and for the purpose of this example, a mental illness can be thought of as the engine isn't running properly. With shock therapy, you send a large electrical current to overload the engine, causing it to temporarily shut down and then start back up. It's analogous to when a computer gets surged, some data may be lost, some may be somewhat recovered and some will be perfectly fine. With shock therapy, it's a guess as to what memories will be affected, how many memories will be affected and for how long will the memories be affected.

However, as mentioned, shock therapy has become less brutish in that now the electrodes are modified and you receive certain sedations and painkillers. This is also assuming that these medications don't interact with any medications you may be presently taking. Overall, I'm not a strong supporter of shock therapy but I am a stronger supporter of TMS.

[possum220]

Crystalrose the conditions TMS is reported to help are:

Lazy Eye
ALS
Auditory Hallucinations (Schizophrenia)
Chronic Pain
Dsyphasia
Dystonia
Epilepsy
Fibromyalgia
Major Depression
Migraine
OCD
Parkinson's Disease
Phantom Limb
Stroke
Tinnitus (Ringing in the ears)

Thanks for your feed back shezbut that is good to hear. rmdctc - As for sites I am just googling and seeing what comes up.

My p'doc said that treatment takes a month as an inpatient. It wouldn't take long to get the treatment, more a matter of waiting for a private room. As to cost I'm not sure, but seeing as it is experimental here they would cover the cost due to the fact that it is still in the research phase. I really need to talk to a nurse practitioner who liases with patients for the exact details. I am hoping to phone her tomorrow.

Grayness - I also like the fact that it is non invasive. I know of many people who have had ECT and lost chunks of memory that they cant get back and they didn't really have much benefit from that. Others have benefited from ECT but they also need ongoing top ups.

I have a leaflet here that says I may be asked to give a saliva test or blood test as part of the trial, something to do with genetic testing.

Ah well.... still checking into it. If it can knock my migraines on the head, its got to be a bonus.

Thank you all so much for your responses I will let you know what I hear from the phone call.

[Maven]

Thanks for mentioning this. I hadn't heard of it, but if it helps OCD, I'll be on the lookout for further information.

[possum220]

Its listed as helping OCD Maven.........

[crystalrose]

are other australian states trialing it also?

[possum220]

The University of Sydney is trialing it crystalrose.

Ask your P'doc if they know of any trials in your area.

[possum220]

I have just spoken to the Nurse at the clinic who is the contact point for patients re TMS. She said that 1 in three benefit from having TMS. The time it takes for the treatment is 45 minutes.

There were no costs additional costs for having the treatment, apart from the normal hospitalization costs, which is dependent on having private health insurance.

The treatment is under the oversight of the Alfred Hospital (Major Melbourne Hospital). At the Alfred they are doing this treatment all day every day. So it seems that a few people are now choosing TMS to help them.

Still pondering........

[shezbut]

Hi Possum220,

Did the doctor or nurse mention how many treatments would be necessary to treat your condition? The two people I know do require additional treatments every 6 months (or so), is that pretty standard for TMS?

Those two Q's just popped up in my head anyway. Oh...another Q. Have you already been through most other types of treatment for the illness ~ without help? That would be a key factor in my decision. {Personally, that was exactly what made me choose to have brain surgery for partial epilepsy 3/06. It was my personal best bet in finally gaining control of my seizures.}

(((hugs)))
Shez

[possum220]

Dear shezbut,

In my limited knowledge of TMS... its either a two week course or 4 week course. 1 hour per day during each week.

As to the follow up procedures I don't have a clue and neither does my GP but he seems impressed with the progress his patient are making. Other doctors - not so impressed.

I have tried a raft of medications for my depression with little success. Only thing complicating things is that I have dissociative identity disorder. (which causes neck/body spasms for me amongst voices). I have attempted cognitive therapy but that makes me very agitated.

I will see how things go as I have asked for a referral from my Pdoc to the Pdoc who is overseeing the treatments. I will need to wait for a private bed. (Otherwise there is no space of your own and I cant do that for a month).

Sorry I cant be more specific with the answers.

[possum220]

Okies so I have booked in for the treatment and have to wait for private room. 5 days down the track nothing has happened. I am cheesed off as I see that at most other hospitals they can do this as an out patient not an in patient. grrrr

[kim_johnson]

One fairly common side effect is severe muscular headaches / migranes as the stimulation stimulates muscles across the surface of the skull.

Another issue is potential complications with respect to seizures. I'm not sure precisely what percentage of people have TMS induced seizure with the procedure but some significant number of them do. There are issues around harm to the person in having a seizure (this is why people are sedated / restrained when undergoing ECT). There are also issues around the 'kindling' theory of epilepsy - which is basically the notion that the more seizures one has had the more seizures one is likely to have. As such, inducing seizures might result in epilepsy down the track.

As always there simply isn't a wonderful magical answer... Just the careful weighting of pros and cons...

[possum220]

Ohhh I don't like the sound of that. The information regarding headaches is that they are supposed to be mild and very few people have seizures.

Please tell me where you found this out Kim so I can check it out please.

[kim_johnson]

I found out by word of mouth (a researcher in the field). Google reveals the following (for instance):

http://books.google.com/books?id=CQw...eizure&f=false

The researcher seemed to think that seizure and headache were taken very seriously by ethics boards with respect to approval of TMS for healthy subjects (basically it was hard to get ethical approval to run trials on this in the US). I wonder where the ethics people were getting their concern about the procedure from?

Like ECT there simply isn't much known about how it effects people long term... With ECT we simply don't know much beyond 6 month follow up (what studies were done were typically unfavourable so they simply stopped doing them). Most of the people who do TMS studies... Have shares in TMS companies or whatever (trouble with independent research as I mentioned above). I dunno. Same problem in psychiatry generally, really.

I tend to think that when all other methods have been exhausted then it is probably worth a go... But generally... I'd really do my best with psychological / social intervention before chemical / electrical. But that is my personal preference, I suppose.

[possum220]

Thanks Kim.

Why has the US approved this treatment? (Rhetorical)

The treatment is still being conducted under the research banner in AUS. They are using rTMS. Hmmm the article gave me food for thought. I found it very hard to understand.

The Dr who is conducting it at the Geelong clinic said that the impulses only went in a couple of centimetres. After that it just dissipated.

I don't like the thought of tension headaches as I get them enough already. Still waiting for a room so still thinking. Nothing is in concrete yet.

[possum220]

Grrrr its nearly two weeks later and there still isn't a room at the clinic. I just feel fractious. Why is waiting the hardest part?

[possum220]

Three weeks and still waiting............ Now my P'doc is on holidays for two weeks. Bleah.

[possum220]

Finally I can go into the Clinic......

[possum220]

I am out of the clinic for a couple of hours tonight. Just wanted to update you about my experience of TMS. It feels like a woodpecker is taping on your skull for about 30 mins. I am halfway through the treatment and I feel no better or worse. The results tend to show themselves towards the end of the monthly treatment.

Apparently they are going to start using it on people who have Autism.

Cheers

[VickiesPath]

Hi everyone,

I do realize that this thread is about TMS but feel that I would like to say a word about "shock therapy", or electro-convulsive therapy as it is known today or ECT.

Here in Phoenix, this form of treatment is very advanced and is quite commonly used for patients who are resistant to other forms of therapy or who are not candidates for more conventional forms of therapies. From an informal poll previously taken here on PC, we in the United States are far more advanced in our use of this form of therapy than in many other parts of the world and do have very good results from its use.

The term "shock" is a bit misleading because what actually happens is that a small electrical current is introduced under anesthesia and a muscle relaxant which causes a mild and controlled seizure. The patient is not continually shocked. The seizure does in some ways "reboot" the brain which does actually rearrange the chemical composition of the brain. It does cause temporary memory loss which usually returns after a short period of time but can, in some cases especially after repeated treatments, be permanent memory loss of certain periods of a person's life. But most (not all) patients attest to the fact that ECT has been very effective treatment for them when other methods have failed.

I do feel that in the 21st century, we need to give this form of treatment it's due credit and a clear picture of the progress that has been made in its use at least in the USA.

[possum220]

Just home for a little bit. I don't think that TMS has done me any favours. Feeling quite depressed until I saw my garden......... I need H E L P...... It looks bad.........ruddy weeds...