Where does "evil" come from?

Let me see if I get this right - for those who believe a person can't be evil. If I see a duck - I can't just say "you're a duck". I have to analyze my deep feelings and see if my 'perception' is correct. I wonder if a child killer sits and ponders to such an extent.

So we can't call a pedophile evil because there are other enlightened ((la,la, plug yours ear, hide your head in sand) ways of 'percieving' the person - because of my own flawed way of looking at them. I guess this is why screwed up North America, allows organizations like NAMBLA to exist - because they're not evil - they're JUST men who 'LOVE' boys.

Tut, tut, lynn! Have we done so good a job of dealing with paedophiles and other miscreants that we don't need a new way of looking at things?

Those "man-boy" "love" people or whoever can say pretty much what they please -- it's when they do something illegal that we can get them. I feel fairly sure that they are under the scrutiny of law-enforcement officials...

I always seem to have more to say, even when that might not be wise.

Man-boy "love" types can also use language to "do" things, to affect people, as well as employing more direct physical methods. But their use of language to confuse people as to their true intent only works if you get confused! If you are not impressed by their use of language to hide what they want, then you can see them, not as "powerful" or "dangerous" (or "evil"), but as foolish, ineffectual, insecure. If you see them that way, you may be able to think of more effective ways to deal with them, than if you feel overwhelmed in your own mind by their "power".

Often, visiting my wife in prison, I run into a grandmother who is visiting her granddaughter at the same time. Her granddaughter was 23 when she went to prison for a twelve years sentence; she is epileptic and has an IQ of 63. She usually spends the two hours with grandma coloring. The girl is in prison for sex with a minor - he was sixteen, average intelligence and a member of the football team. She was a virgin until that day. Who do you think took advantage of whom? Nevertheless, the girl is a sex offender and listed as a pedophile.

Yes, yes, I know you weren't talking about this case and that this case is nothing like the one you were trying to describe but where do you draw the line? Is this case of pedophilia so obviously a miscarriage of justice that the legal title of pedophile is something you are willing to overlook now that you've heard a paragraph of her story? Either way, many would.

I also remember the story you were trying to recall, though I only know the details as presented by the media - an entity designed and which thrives on making things as dramatic as possible. I don't know his story either.

I've been thinking about this more....

I guess I would be willing to say that any person who commits evil acts, chronically, could then be considered an evil person.

Generally I don't like to label people as good or evil. I like to see people as neutral with a choice of whether they want to use their powers for good or evil. But if you make the choice to commit acts of evil on a more permanent basis, or on a regular schedule of sorts, then you are choosing an evil lifestyle and at that point maybe a person does become, in fact, evil?

Lots to think on!!

Admittedly, I haven't read every post but I have been following this thread. This morning, someone shared a quote with me and it led me to these 2 quotes. I decided to share them and I hope it's understood they simply represent musings on my part.


The world turns and the world changes But one thing does not change
However you disguise it, this one thing does not change
The perpetual struggle of good and evil – T.S Eliot


Evil is not to be traced back to the individual but to the collective behavior of humanity - Reinhold Niebuhr

Evil is negative energy that resides in the hearts, minds, and souls of all humanity. Like Love, it sees no colors and knows no boundaries. Nobody is immune to the power of it...nobody. It doesn't matter if you are from Germany, Russia, North Karea, Japan, or the supposed infallible US of A. No one can say their crap don't stink.

The blessing of life is that goodness also lies in our hearts, minds, and souls, and when people decide to let the power of goodness outweigh the power of evil the world will begin transforming into a better place. Until then we will continue the struggle to maintain a
balance. Some will chose to grow and mover forward and some will chose to keep their heads in the sand. For them, the truth is too much.

I find the idea of commiting chronic acts of 'evil' creating 'evil' much more compelling than other arguments I have heard which would label someone evil. I will be thinking on this. Thank you for the post.

You were given that information by the Grandmother, the courts don't usually lock up people for 12 years for no reason, I would think there is more to that story than you have been told. Interesting that you like to back up criminals rather than face reality that some people are infact bad.

I do agree that there is good and evil in all of us, that is why we have laws, rules and regulations to promote the good in all of us.

Maybe I'm getting over emotional here but an older woman could have very well taken advantage of a younger boy. He's of average intelligence and part of a football team- so what? He can still be taken advantage of. If you switched the genders here and said an epileptic man with an IQ of 63 took advantage of a 16 year old girl with an average intelligence on a sports team, people would believe it. How is it unbelievable that the boy here could have been taken advantage of? Abuse is abuse.

Maybe this thread would better have been titled "Where does human destructiveness come from?" rather than introducing the word "evil" (though the original article did use that word).

I was given that information by her grandmother, by court records and by my wife who has lived with her for the last seven years. The girl is mentally retarded - by legal definition. Of course, the epilepsy is pretty easy to see as she has seizures regularly in the visiting room as a result of the lighting. I'm not surprised that you think there is more to the story. I find that most people seem to have an unusual faith in the justice system until someone they know is imprisoned.

Interesting perhaps, but not that surprising. The word criminal is just a label. Because my wife is in prison I have had the opportunity to meet many people who carry that label and have found that once one gets past the label, one finds a human being. I will back up anyone to whom injustice is forced upon, regardless of their label. The idea that some people are in fact bad is an opinion and one that you are entitled to but just because it is your opinion doesn't make it reality - nor does it mean that I am not facing reality.

Abuse is abuse and an older woman could very well have taken advantage of a younger boy. I couldn't agree more and I wish more people held that belief system. I have volunteered with various organizations over the years promoting equality in this and related issues. Did you know that there are 21 states in which a woman has been convicted of rape and the boy was ordered to pay child support for the pregnancy that resulted from the attack? You are absolutely preaching to the choir on this one.

BUT, this is not such a case. I know you don't know the girl but she is legally mentally retarded. She can barely figure out how to do her laundry after seven years in prison - she did not mastermind the loss of this young man's innocence. Perhaps it was too much for me to accurately describe this person and expect that others could see the picture I was drawing - I am not a very good artist sometimes.

When the subject of pedophiles came up - I don't think we were talking about someone who was unjustly convicted due to mental incapacities, etc. I was focusing on the career (serial) pedophile, who's completely sane and aware in his mind.

If I talk about Charles Manson being evil because he killed people. It wouldn't be relevant to include in the conversation - an innocent person who was unjustly convicted of murder. We're talking about evil, not innocent or unjustly convicted people.

How do you know that someone is "completely sane and aware"?

Psych evaluations/tests.

I find it rather sad that here at PC many of us are victims of abuse and here in this thread we have members that seem to be openly supporting abusive/evil/bad people. (Yes there are people here at PC that have been raped by peadophiles.)

Pegasus, I have been sexually abused by two different individuals as a child - a priest who was headmaster of my school and a friend of the family. I don't support abuse. I do support people; all of them, even those who have hurt me. To do otherwise allows them the power to control me - I lived without fear before I met them and through forgiveness, understanding and compassion to and for them, I live without fear today.

It is not supporting abuse to find fault with the logic that just because someone does something bad that they are bad. We can't even agree within this thread on a definition of evil and without one we can agree on, I would be hard pressed to accept a label of evil placed on anyone.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I said that hypothetically speaking, to cover myself. If I didn't say that, then someone would point out, the person might be insane(not responsible), intellectually challenged etc. - therefore not evil. There are very intelligent and completely sane, evil people in the world

On a lighter note - after participating on this thread for a few days now, I've learned their are some who will pick apart a post - not in a mean way just a tad annoying. It's like when you bring a nice basket of cherries and they'll be that one person who says "look there's a rotten one". Do you like cherries Pachy? (just kidding).

Sorry, I forgot I wanted to comment on ths too. Someone mentioned the idea of 'criminally insane' somewhere in this thread. To be so labeled means that you were so impaired by their mental illness that they lost the capacity to determine right from wrong. It is harder than television makes it out to be to stick.

However, everyone in prison can be found to have, at the very least, a personality disorder by virtue of the fact that they are in prison. i.e Antisocial Personality Disorder. Therefore, just by being arrested they are no longer 'completely sane and aware' - emphasis on 'completely'.

"Situational truth is no truth at all."

It's repugnant to me to entertain the notion that a pedophile is not evil. Are we to now entertain "the abuse excuse" and apply it's principles to those who are "too sick or addicted?" I dare not try! The person who is addicted to alcohol, yet continues to drive and kill people due to his or her drunkeness, to me, is evil. It matters not the cause (for imo the cause of evil is the lack of sufficient good.)

Part of the problem as I see it is the new age belief system that tends to rewrite the definitions of age-old understandings such as morality (good) and evil. To me, a rose by any other name....

Is the castration of girls in a third world country acceptable because it is the societal norm, or is it evil because it's unnecessary and abusive? Are those who perform such type atrocities evil, or good societal members? Who is to say what is evil and what is good? Without a norm, people choose their own definitions. Without a foundation of what is good, there is no limit to the amount of evil a person--or society--can tout as normal.

But alas, I daresay upon observation that the reasoning behind this thread is not for information, as most are, but to once again stir the minds and upset the psyches of members with a category already determinedly solved by the OP. Yet, I could be wrong. Caveat emptor?

Thank you pachy for posing such a question that makes us all think deeply about our own personal beliefs regarding evil. I can certainly appreciate all the ideas, beliefs and feelings of each poster.

To say the least, what constitutes evil certainly seems to be an individual thought....many agreeing, and some being on a different plain of thought.

At this time, the team has decided to close this thread. This is a topic that will never be agreed upon by the whole as there are just too many ways of thinking. We could allow it to go longer but would that solve the issue at hand.....trying to get one side to agree to the other? Very doubtful.

I thank you all for your input, as I've enjoyed reading your replies and thoughts. I've agreed with some and not with all You have taught me a lot in this thread and I thank you for it very much!

Be well

_sabby_