Are some more ill than others ?

I have a friend who has mental health issues and is continually telling me about them to the point I feel like screaming at her that so do I ! I am fed up with her assuming that she has priority over others.

Rant over.

[thunderbear]

Mabye she's waiting for oyu to tell her that so she won't feel alone . I know I used to do that to my sister. And she would reassure me. Cause for me talking about it was easier than asking for help or reassurance.

I wish that was the case ...

I try I really do or rather I did now I dont bother. All you get is 'I am ill I have problems I cant cope with things'

And I am expected to forgive everything !

[eskielover]

Some people I think are trying to sort out their mental illness & end up talking about it as a way of sorting it out in their own minds.

Some people are also more involved with their mental illness if they don't have a lot of other things going on in their life.

You know how some people only take about their medical problems, some only have their mental illness to talk about in the same way.

Or worst case, they may just be going through a very bad time right now & need a shoulder to cry on.....only you know if this is a very long term situation.

[Travelinglady]

Tishie, is this person in on-going therapy? It certainly sounds like it's needed--or maybe more frequent appointments...Maybe you should refer her to us (or would that be cruel and unusual punishment for this forum?) and she can spread her constant ranting about her illness amongst a lot of people....

[Rhiannonsmoon]

I think I understand Tishie hon. I know someone who if you ask her how she is she says "I'm alright in myself BUT...."

And then she goes on do decsribe every ailment in minute detail and then goes on to tell how depressed it makes her and how she doesn't cope because of it and thats why she drinks because the pills don't work (though she won't be told that alcohol is a depressant), and then the more she drinks the nastier she gets and expects you not to "remember" any of that.

The safest bet is not to ask how certain people are if you know they are going to go into their control drama (behaviours & discussions that are used to control people or situations). However I know that some people launch into it anyway because that is their life wholus bolus and because it is them, they like to whine and complain. I'm not trying to be insensitive at all; there are some people who just love to complain and remember the saying "misery loves company" no matter who the company is, as long as they are a pinnable ear for the misery to be imparted.

You know dear Tishie you may have to blow her out of the water by saying exactly what you wrote up top there "screaming at her that so do I !" Well maybe not go at her screaming but putting something down on the table with a thud and say "You know Wendy SO DO I but I don't wear it on my forehead"....well maybe just saying gently "I really know what it is like because I have mental illness too and I struggle with it every day, and I want you to try using these coping strategies...."

She may do one of two things: 1:gratefully accept the strategies and improve her situation. Or 2:Run a mile to find another set of ears to bash where she is the only and exclusive mentally ill person (kid of like Daffyd in Little Britain who complains about how harsh it is being the only Gay in the Village but forces any other Gays who enter the Village, back into their cars and out of the Village so that he is the only Gay in the Village).

Deep breaths dear Tishie, deep breaths and counting to 10

Best of luck with it

What I find annoying is she will be rude or upset me in some way and then use the 'I am ill' card to get out of jail all the time.

Thats when I feel like pointing out to her that lots of people are ill but do not use that as an excuse to upset people.

Oh I think I will just call the relationship over it will be easier on me in the long run.

[anna342]

That response makes me so angry. Having problems isn't an excuse to be nasty or hurt people again and again and take no responsibility for it.

I so agree anna it really bugs me too.

Originally Posted by Tishie

I wish that was the case ...

I try I really do or rather I did now I dont bother. All you get is 'I am ill I have problems I cant cope with things'

And I am expected to forgive everything !

To me this smacks of using mental illness as an excuse for bad behavior, and that's a major peeve of mine. "Yeah, I committed assault, but I can't help it, I have an illness." "Sure I'm being rude and annoying, but I can't help it, I have an illness."

Barf. I have one too, but nobody ever makes excuses for me, or overlooks my behavior because of it.

Nor do I expect them to.

In fact, if we want to eliminate the stigma of mental illness, shouldn't we stop playing the illness card in order to escape the consequences of our actions? We should be trying to show that "mentally ill" does NOT mean "incompetent."

Your so right ! By doing as she is she is causing people to be very wary of mental illness and causing a stigma.

[sabby]

((((((((((( Tishie ))))))))))))

I can certainly understand your frustration with this situation. I think it happens more than you know out in this world. There can be one of any multitude of reasons why she does this and I think trying to figure out the exact reason would be self defeating.

I believe the best thing you can do for yourself and for her is to set your boundaries and to remind her that no matter what illness she has, she is still responsible for her behaviors. Let her know exactly what your boundaries are and give her the chance to accept them and work on her behaviors or to say that she can't help herself and walk away from the relationship.


sabby

[Melbadaze]

perhaps shes unconsciously trying to communicate how her life was once? perhaps she had a care-giver that cared more about their issues then hers as a child? counter transference going on here perhaps? if someone is this "bad" what does the "friend" get out of the friendship? perhaps the counter transference reaction is what shes being drawn too? its to easy to just blame one part of any relationship?

[madisgram]

does she see a pdoc and T for her MI? if so,here's a thought: you might suggest she keep a journal to discuss those issues she brings up to you in her next session since you aren't qualified to give her help other than be a supportive friend.
sounds like to me she is obsessing over her illness and it might be she is taking you hostage over what ails her. idk. just a thought.
tell her she is valued as a friend but using you as a sounding board for everything may not help her...that's what her pdoc and T are for.
you can say this kindly and if it were me i'd bring the subject up to her.
i might be more prone to say just be a good friend but from your post it sounds like it's interfering with you enjoying having her around since she's yaking on and on about herself and her MI. it's ok to set boundaries with her. that's a healthy approach.

[Princess_Obsidian]

Greetings,

From my understanding, everyone has their own unique case of whatever mentall illness, they are afflicted with. I do not like comparing one to another, resulting in me thinking one is worse off than, the other. Yes, some cases are more severe, and others aren't. Though, with something like mental illness, which can grow worse without proper treatment, and or is very challenging to contain, one's severity could, of course change, down the road.

Have a good one.

[lonegael]

Definitely it is an issue of attitude more than a case of actual illness. There are cases where I sometimes blow and I will have to go back and apologize for having acted in a bizarre or exagerrated manner, and then I might explain that I am bipolar or have anxiety problems and that my stress levels have been way out of whack. Note: I eat crow FIRST, my other problems are an explanation, not an excuse, and only if they are relevant to what has happened, only if the other person knows about my mental problems, and only if that will keep the other person involved from greater insult or pain. It is not an excuse for every stupid blow-out, misjudgement, etc. That is just insulting to everyone, including myself. At some point, I have to do my self the honor of standing and facing the music, because I have come far enough to know that I can without having to hide behind the "Oh, I just can't help myself" excuse.
I can't help myself when I get to a certain point, but I can do a lot to keep from getting there

We used to talk about how willing people were to learn about their illnesses as a measure to see how successfully they would learn to live with thier mental health issues. There were those who only learned ienough to find out what the illness would entitle them to get away with, and these folks didn't have a good prognosis. Everyone goes through a kid of stage like that, but most move through it pretty quickly. You spot the ones who don't very fast.

I'm with you, lonegael. I might say, "I do have an illness, but that's not an excuse, and I apologize." If I'm going to say, "I have an illness, so I can't be held responsible for what I said or did," then how can I expect others to see me as a competent person deserving of respect? If I'm not responsible--then I'm not trustworthy, and others must make decisions for me. Not what I want at all, so I'd rather take my lumps when I screw up.

Those who use illness as an excuse have no right to complain about stigma.

[AAAAA]

I do think that some people are more ill than others, but I also believe that there is such a thing as personal responsibility.

We all have issues, that does not give us the right to make other people miserable and then expect them to suck it up and turn the other cheek. I struggle with anger every day of my life, that doesn't mean I have the right to inflict my ire on anyone and everyone that has the misfortune to cross my path.

To me what it boils down to is this: some things are beyond my control but my illness does not give me a get out of free card. I think I am less tolerant of others because of my own struggle. If I can live my life without making those around me miserable, why the hell can't you?

Originally Posted by AAAAA

I think I am less tolerant of others because of my own struggle. If I can live my life without making those around me miserable, why the hell can't you?

I find myself thinking the same way. I can be SO intolerant of another person's symptoms, because dang it, I have an illness too, and it doesn't give ME a free pass.

What makes me angriest are those cases of mothers who do unspeakable harm to their children, and then try to use depression (postpartum or otherwise) as an excuse to escape the consequences. I had trouble in that department too, but I picked up the phone and called for help BEFORE I hurt my children. And if I were to hurt them, or anyone else, as a result of my illness, I would still expect to receive consequences.

Turns out she now has yet another diagnosis I really cant cope so am not going to talk to her anymore....

This may make me a bad person but I am at the point where I dont care .

[Perna]

I was just reading about how psychologists and others don't really refer to people as having "mental illness" as that's such a vague term. Everyone has problems and physical differences in how they function. Look at all the different "intelligences": http://www.thomasarmstrong.com/multi...elligences.php Does having one and not another mean I'm "ill" or handicapped in some way? No, my experience is just "different" than another person's. A person born blind isn't better/worse than a person with a family history of heart disease who isn't better/worse than one with a family history of schizophrenia or depression.

[AAAAA]

Lovebirds I understand what you are saying, but in my opinion a mother that can harm her children is broken/ill in a way that escapes words. I do not excuse this behavior. In my opinion capital punishment would be the most humane. Imagine finally getting the help you need and having to live with the fact you harmed your children for the rest of your life... I cannot comprehend a worse hell to exist in.

I cannot imagine being able to harm any child, but your own... well that is just beyond words.

Tish - you are one of the kindest people that I've ever met in my life. You've reached your limit. Now who is it that tells me I can save the whole world all of the time?

[crazygirl76]

Well said lovebirds! I agree. If you think about it we all have some kind of disorder! But how we deal with it makes a difference. It doesn't give one the right to treat others poorly though.

[lonegael]

I've run into some people who honestly are such messes that they can't get their lives together enough to realize what it means to have a "mental illness" (yep, I use the word for lack of a better term in this context). Because of their raising, and their chemical or abuse problems or even cognitive problems, they can't handle their psychiatric issues responsibly. I'm not really contradicting myself here; these are folks who just, no matter how hard they try, can't get all the ducks lined up to take responsibility for their actions because the insight, the ability to see consequences, and the ability to handle the stress that comes with responsibility just isn't there and isn't likely to develop. These folks are a little different than the ones that tishie is talking about, but here, I would say that these ARE really sick people with multiple diagnosis, maybe even double trudgers as the AA used to call them. After some thought, I remembered that the folks in a daycare program for people with psychosis problems used to refer to such patients as the above as "those poor guys" or "the really sick ones" even if the speaker was at the moment more floridly psychotic than the person referred to. What was meant was that those folks had much worse chances of functioning on their own than the others. Just a kind of strange aside from the queen of non sequiters. Hugggs all!

I never thought I would see members treating mental illness so cavalierly at this site.

To say people are responsible for their actions is a truism. That truism does not end the inquiry. To be held accountable, the person must have the mental capacity to commit a crime. Criminal responsibility, therefore, deals with whether a person can be held legally responsible for his criminal behavior.

Mental capacity: the degree of understanding and memory the law requires to uphold the validity of or to charge one with responsibility for a particular act or transaction < mental capacity to commit crime requires that the accused know right from wrong>

Capital punishment: putting a condemned person to death.

The Greeks and Romans wrestled with mental illness and insanity centuries ago. The insanity defense has been controversial ever since. Even so, the US and other countries of the world require the government to prove criminal intent to get a conviction.

In Ford v. Wainwright, 477 U.S. 399 (1986), the US Supreme Court upheld the common law* rule that the insane cannot be executed.

*Common law, also known as case law, is law developed by judges through decisions of courts and similar tribunals rather than through legislative statutes or executive branch action.