Mentally ill people.

Would you have me triggered because of her ? Should I listen to her to my own detriment ?

I have just seen this thread and skimmed over it. So I am only responding to Tishie's last post.

I have recently met a woman who talks and talks and talks. She triggers me to the point where my neck starts to spasm and am stuck looking at the floor.
She has just joined a mental health committee that has been started. Last meeting I had to leave the room. For my own peace of mind and safety I need to resign from this committee.

Mental illness aside.......... we cant all be friends with everybody.

Tishie some boundaries may need to be put in place to keep you safe.

Similar to Possum, I knew a lady who talked LOUDLY all the time. The story goes that she had grown up as one of 17 children, and when you're competing to be heard over that many, you have to yell, which as a middle-aged woman she never broke the habit of doing. She hurt my ears and gave me a headache, and I couldn't stand to be around her very much either. Mental illness was used to excuse her; apparently she couldn't help it. But does that mean I have to suffer?

It also bothers me when I am inpatient and another person is being loud and unruly. When I hear that person being absolved with, "Well, he/she has problems," I think, "I'm not exactly here on vacation myself."

We have to take care of our own issues first. If we can't deal with someone else's, that doesn't mean we are being hard-hearted. It means we have limitations.

And to address the legal aspects, as a sufferer of depression since I was 6 years old, I have NEVER been to the point where I didn't know right from wrong. When people claim they shouldn't be held liable for what they did because of depression, it bothers me. Depression is not a psychosis.

Being aware of the limitations is one of the signs of being able to manage your mental health, and one of the biggest demands that is placed on mental health workers, actually. For example, there is hardly a more dangerous professional than one that believes that he or she has overcome all his or her prejudices, can work with all types of patients, and can cure everyone without a hitch. these people are likely to blame all their problems in therapy on the patient, while in reality, a lot of them are probably coming from themselves. Definitely, if you realize some people are punching you buttons, remove yourself from the picture until you can figure how to stop that from happening.
Byz; I think I need to clarify my response to AAAA's post. Indirectly, I "Know" a person who did just that while unmedicated. It was horrible. Just thinking of being in that position turns my stomach, as this person was also bipolar. My thanks referred more to that capital punishment would have been more merciful, but no, I don't think that inthis case it was even considered an option, this person was so obviously ill. My honest opinion is that while even if I might consider it "merciful" I might not consider that society has the right to mete that sentence out for the very reasons you give. I cannot think of a worse prison to be caged in than that poor parent is now. Huggs.

I fully understand the definition of capital punishment. I would truly hope that if I were to break in such a way that I would be put to death. Even five minutes of clarity in a life time knowing that I hurt my children would be cruel and unusual punishment to me. I also believe that sometimes the actions are so heinous that their state of mental health is inconsequential.

In a neighboring community a young man recently abducted a toddler and sexually assaulted him. It was later discovered that this sad soul is a repeat offender. In addition to mental illness, this boy (19) is also mentally challanged, he had been released from a mental health facility into the care of a family member (identity not revealed at this time) because the state was aware that he would attack again if given the opportunity. My heart bleeds for him and most of his family. He truly does not understand that what he did is wrong. I do not think prison, where he would himself be abused, is the right place for him. I think the person that took responsibility for him and failed to live up to that obligation deserves to be severely punished. I have no PC answer as to what his fate should be. But I strongly believe that being mentally ill does not give you carte blanche.

My personal beliefs on capital punishment aside, a person has an obligation to him/herself to lead as healthy a lifestyle as possible. As my dear friend Tishie has pointed out to me several times, you cannot put your own health at risk in an effort to save someone else. I know for a fact that Tishie has put her own stability on the line in an effort to help other people only to be rewarded with pain, heart ache and frustration. I for one see it as personal growth that she is able to spot someone that brings more bad than good to her life and take preventive steps.

You know I am guility of this and so are most people .. we ask how are you doing and all we really ant them to say is fine not problems and go on with life so now i dont ask that question unless i have the time to devote to the person... it is surprisely how much they just want someone to listen to them, and really there is no reason why you cant tell them after they have talked for so long that you need to do so an so and then do it dont give them a chance to try to change your mind.. .. if they are overly concerned about theirself and situation then that is not the person to try to tell your problems to.. .. people have to be in the right space inorder to listen and converse with each other.. just my opinion... sweeteawice

Continuing ranting. I want to rant with you and therefore we will have something in common which seems to make me feel better. I have a friend who is always telling me how great her life is. It gets old. So I guess having someone alway complaining about how bad things are for them and then someone else that brags about how much better they have it than most people should be in the same room?

YES ! lol....

I have trouble understanding why people ask me "how are you". I usually answer factually but I try to keep it short. If it's a stranger like a tradesperson I think it's impertinent, but if I like them I say "all the better for being here again".

I never ever ask anyone else "how are you" !!! To a few really decent people I say, "I hope you're keeping well" then they can volunteer something if they wish and I have decided I have time for it.

I value all opportunities to talk about my struggles but am wary of people in self-help groups who have hangups about excuses, I feel I would like to share without being accused of that.

I have a friend who used to give me lifts to mutual friends. I was going through a bad patch without appropriate medication and bent his ear too much and wrongly. He let me know that it wasn't convenient for him to offer me lifts for a while. I appreciate that.

I do ask, "How are you", but then I make sure that i am prepared to listen to the truth. Sometimes, particularly if I am hypo, I know i go on too much, but most people know how to send the signals that "whoa girl, tmi," and i try to respect that.

Some folks seem to be in a competition. One I know I unfortunately have to have a lot to do with. She is always going on about her kids problems (all worse than mine, although her kids are all so much more brilliana than either of mine) and all her troubles are so much worse than mine. She refuused to eat during any of her pregnancies, then demanded huge sympathy becasue all her kids had such rare complications after birth. Now her kids are so nervous beccause of her mom, and she herself is constant showing up on my door step demand help and upset and crying with one or the other kid in tow because she is too upset to check their mouth or some cut or look in an ear or something and needs me to do it.
the kids, are, of course, basket cases. I feel so badly for them. I have looked in ears and tried to calm them while checking in mouths and eyes while mom freaks out nearby. Any attempt to calm Mom leads to, "You don't understand!" (I have known this woman for twenty years) Any suggestion, even my very gentle ones, and my husband's more desperate ones (it is his sister)that she get help for her problems for the sake of the children is met with, "It's my parent's fault, you know, I'm not like you (me). I'm not taking medicine." Atthe same time she uses her problems to try to get special consideration for everything, even to the point that I feel like she uses her children's pain to manipulate me. She looks down on me for needing medication, but tries to get back at her family by saying "See, my kids are a mess because you made me a mess, now you owe me."
I'm sorry. I know about her parents. She had a horrible time, so did my husband and his brothers. But he kids and her husband are having it pretty bad NOW. At some point, she, like I and her brother, have to chose, do you keep this going? Her mom madethe same choice she is making, and another generation was crippled. I have watched my husband cry about this, I have cried about this, but finally, I can't afford to anymore.

for some people, the ssue of having difficulties, including mental illness is an issue of entitlement to wreck revenge on the world. It is a patern that you get taught, but it is a pattern you can break. You may not see it at once, but you can do it once you become aware of it. This woman started this after she herself opened her eyes to this pattern. Her response was, "what a great way to make sure that the world pays". At this point, My empathy breaks down for her, although it does hurt to remember how she was, once. Now all I can see is what's happening to her babies. THEY did not and cannot choose at this point. HUGGS all, but this goes beyond irritation.

my mom has a friend like that, mom desperately tries to put up with her because she knows i'm going through something similar.

and hopefully not always, but yesterday when i found this site i talked everyone's ears off about my problems. it was so good to be able to talk to someone who didn't think you were just imagining things. perhaps that's one of the reasons she talks to you - she knows you'll understand the way most others wouldn't.

but when it gets to the point of disturbing you, it's time to take some sort of action. whether to get rid of her or not, or somehow change the relationship you (in my opinion) need to change something.

Just a quick reply to this: you make a very good point. However, in some cases, a person can be so paranoid or delusional that in the course of trying to protect themselves or escape from these feelings they will unintentionally hurt others. This does happen, AND it is due to the mental illness.

well, actually, sometimes being mentally ill DOES mean being incompetent.

if one can't handle being around negativity, that is one's own problem,,, not anyone elses. expecting others to change to suit us is such a waste of time and completely ineffective.

i have had plenty of so-called "friends" dump me, because they didn't like the 'symptoms' of my brain chemistry disorder... would i have quit being disabled if i could ?? In a HOT MINUTE~!! i didn't ask for this, i only made the best of it, and those who were light weight, unskilled, intolerant, overly demanding acquaintances, fell by the wayside,, guess what, they are still the same people, while I am not~!! Gus

Ivy and Gus make excellent points. I too would quit being disabled in an instant, if I could. And I do realize that sometimes, my husband has to make allowances for my abnormal behavior. Heaven help me if he expected me to be normal all the time.

Yes, sometimes mental illness does mean incompetence. Especially if it is undiagnosed and/or untreated. I am still suffering today for decisions I made decades ago, before we knew (or admitted) that I had a mental illness. Because of it, my children were raised primarily in foster care. I am on medication and much more stable now, but since my own children spent so much time in state custody, the state I now live in will not allow me to house my homeless daughter *with* her children. She can stay with me until she finds her own apartment, but the children must remain in foster care. Because Grandma's "crazy." And no, they wouldn't return her children if she's in a shelter. Oh, if only I had been able to get my symptoms under control much sooner, and been able to raise my children myself. I was too messed up to be a proper mother, and consequently I am now not even given a chance to be a grandmother. My daughter is at least entitled to regular visits with her children. I am not. Grandparents have no legal rights in Washington.

Will my daughter seek counseling for her depression and codependency issues? Hell, no. She's already seen what the state of Washington does, the minute a mental health diagnosis comes into play. If she pulls herself up by her own boot straps, straightens up and flies right, she stands a chance of getting her children back. But not if she has a mental health diagnosis. They'd just use that against her, as a reason to keep them. Why? Because it's a toddler and a newborn, at the prime adoption age, as opposed to older kids and teens. They'd be adopted in a heartbeat, if the state could wrestle them away from their mother. So they want to, believe me, and they'll do whatever it takes.

Sorry about the rant. It's really on my mind. Back to the topic. My point is, even though I have a mental health problem, I still don't want excuses made for me if I were to commit a crime or hurt someone. Some mentally ill people *are* incompetent. I am not. And I don't wish to be *labelled* incompetent, just because someone else is. I have no sympathy for the Susan V. Smiths and the Andrea Yateses of the world. When I realized I was a sinking ship, I didn't drown my children. I provided lifeboats for them by calling the state myself. Although I have been criticized and judged for not being able to raise my children--in fact, someone told me "losing custody of your children makes you the lowest of the low"--I disagree. At least I'm not a monster who killed them and then whined, "Don't prosecute me, I'm depressed."

WHERE do we sign up for that???

As for those who prey upon children, there is no evidence that those people (perps) can heal from their sickness. Go figure.

Lovebirdsflying, I am sorry that you have been so judged and persecuted. That your daughter and grandchildren suffer the consequences of a system that is so unyelding. I also am sorry that you had to listen to the sometimes brutal judgements of so many. I have enough judgements of myself. I do not need other peoples judgements or criticisms added to my own..... directed inward.

Thank you, Sunset. As I tell my husband, therapist, and pastor when they berate me for putting myself down, "Everything I say about myself has already been said by numerous other people. Usually family members."

I agree with you that would get on my nerves too.And what I tell people like that is I know you have issues but please done keep on saying .And tell them that you are not the only one that have issues and you keep bringing up dont help it any way .And just change the subject.Good luck

I couldn't agree more with everyone and I can relate. I have a friend and we have been friends for almost 50 years now. It ends up we are both bipolar and I have worked, took my meds, tried to stay healthy, gone to the psych hospital when I got out of control and had many hours of psychotherapy. All she has done is stayed at home, not worked, given excuses for poor health choices and whenever I called her she would cry and cry and cry and go on about how bad her life was and finally I told her you need to go to the hospital and get your meds right because whenever I talk to you it is always the same thing. Well she straightened up real quick and when we talk there is not all of that crying and poor me any more. Yes I feel a distance between us but you know what that is her problem. You can't expect to dump on people over and over and never do anything to work on yourself. I am not perfect but at least I am trying. I do not expect anyone to excuse my behavior because of my illness. I guess growing up in a house where my Dad had mental issues made me know what a burden it is on others and I don't want to be any more burden than is possible. To tell you the truth if my friend were not more like a family member I probably wouldn't even bother to try to maintain a friendship. I called her today as a matter of fact and she was okay but didn't go on this poor me tirade like she used to. You sound like a really nice person and your friend may just be taking advbantage of your good nature. She may just need dose of the truth!

^^Charley Pride, the country music legend, is also bipolar. He tells in his autobiography of being hospitalized in restraints, but he was resistant to taking meds until a friend of his who was a doctor told him flat out, "As of now, I am your doctor, not your friend." Charley Pride is a huge hero of mine, and he didn't let his disability stop him from being successful.

THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT GO TO MENTAL HEALTH ,THINKING THEY WILL GET HELP BUT THE TRUTH IS YOU DON'T
THE MOST THAT HAPPENS IS THEY TAKE YOUR WEIGHT ,THEN YOU SEE A NURSE,THEN HAVE TO WAIT 10-30MIN'S AN THEN YOU SEE THE DOCTOR,WHO TALKS TO YOU FOR 5-10MIN'S. THEN THEY REFILL YOUR MEDICATION AN SEND YOU ON YOUR WAY. no therapy,what help is that....they come in with the same problems,then leave with the same problems. What good does it do?, if you have an therapist then you might find some answers,but if you don't well the person is still screwed up as before. The best thing I can tell you is listen with an open mind,be careing an stay postive, that gives the person hope. Another thing that might help is look up on the web, about their problems then when you talk to them you will knowwhat to tell them,this can help them understand what they are dealing with. also if they have a computer tell them the web sites that they can look up at their own time. if they don't print it out then give it to them,this way they will not be in the dark about their problem.
bye
***********3x3

That all sounds lovely, however I cant cope with her anymore and now have nothing to do with her.

It was affecting my mental health, she was draining me.

(Tishie) You stand out because you do give good, sound advice. Use that great ability of yours to tell your friend to get a therapists.

Tishie, no matter who we are, or how patient or understanding we are, or how smart and empathic we are, we all have our limits. here is going to be someone out there who punches your combination of buttons and you need to know when you need to back off and just let someone else be that person's ear and shoulder. I have had to back up hard on a couple of people because if I don't things might get said. Why? because those special buttons get punched, and in spite of my hard talk and seeming intolerance, I don't want to add to their pproblems by blowing up. If I do, then what I would say would not be retractable, ever.
There are times when realizing that you have the limits is the best and kindest for both parties. Yeah, it's nice to feel like you can understand everything and everyone and be there for everybody, but you know, this is right where most professional therapists make their biggest mistakes, the ones we all get warned about in school. Know your limits and know when you need to say "I can't handle this person or this situation right now, or maybe even ever". One professor told a student who insisted that we should be able to handle everyone that she was developing a "God complex".
There is no shame knowing that your limit is hit. It's OK to say, "Not now, OK? I just need to deal with something else right now. Thanks." I have to avoid the sister-in-law, which is not easy, but it's essentially the same deal. Good luck, hon.

Tishie I am SO proud of you!!!