Bamboozled, hornswoggled and hoodwinked?

Reading my post I notice how often I made reference to connected communities. My business is called 'Community Connections'. I guess I really believe my own babble hey. lol.

My apologies Byz for diverting the topic.

A difficulty that I when working with children had was that often, both the children and parents were very resistant to broadening the network beyond just the therapist, sometimes to the point that the parents would resist playing an active role in the child's treatment, seeing it as an admission of guilt. Often, trying to get them involved was simply an admission of what you just said, one single therapist is really not enough support, and it is better to work with the child's entire contact network than to place all the blame on the child and start pumping in the meds.

Sometimes it is difficult for parents to see that everything that is diffent is not wrong. Some teenages we have certainly have needed help with ADs, but it doesn't solve everything wby a long shot, and then we have to onvince the parents that no, we won't set in new drugs; there is nothing WRONG with the fact that their daughter feels things so intensely. She just has to learn how to handle those intense feelings and they have to learn how to help her do so instead of trying to make her be like everyone else and shaming her when she isn't. IT really does take a village to raise a child, and to nurture an adult. Unfortunately, Modern Psychiatry and psychotherapy bears too much of the marks of it's father, a man with very strong narcisistic traits, for whom dependence on others was a hideous shame and not a species specific trait. Our refusal to trust and depend on our neighbors makes us instead dependant on sytems, and here in Sweden, it means a large number of people become dependent on the state instead of depending on their families. Hence a huge upswing in official disability rates. See, you don't have to show gratitude to a system, but the debt remains.

Sanity Seeker, I don't think the diversion was too far off, actually. Recovery often does take the support of people who are NOT involved in the official Pychobabble, to a much greater degree than we often admit in the field. It is crucial, and a person's re/habilitation can stand or fall on what kind of supprot network exists outside of the therapy room. How in touch with that reality a therapist is can also play a large role. The therapist HAS to be able to share a patient's reality to smae extent. Otherwise, what is the point? Too many spend too much time standing above that reality and condescending to peek into it from time to time. That doesn't lead to much of a client therapist bond

Hello, sanityseeker, lonegael and Fool Zero. I am pleased to learn of your experiences. I had hoped more would join in. I am at the point of when in doubt, mumble.

Before the demise of this thread, I have some thoughts to share. Initially, the intent was to discuss the role of treatment in my life. The desultory agglomeration this thread has become perhaps may be explained by my curiosity and need to understand. There is so much I do not know. What I do know is I have learned some things. I hope some of you have too.

The impact of a childhood influenced by alcohol, violence, abuse, religion and fear remains with me today. Anger, self-loathing, the absence of people skills, confusion and the terror of feeling alone in my family kept me on adrenaline overload.

After reading about the possibility of a genetic predisposition to mental illness and alcoholism, I decided not to marry or have children. I rationalized I did not want to be the source of problems for a child. That I was not able to make a relationship work likely was the more honest reason for my decision.

Having now spent a lot of time thinking about the therapy I received, I am dumbfounded the most by what was not discussed. Discussion about the affect of alcohol was minimal. Being frequently told I was going to hell because I was bad might have been talked about but I cannot recall it being given much attention. A failure to explore how devastating having no one to talk to growing up is probably the hardest for me to understand.

I was told I was a social retard, truly had a talent for messing up my life, did not understand and that further therapy likely would not be helpful. These revelations haunted me until I finally accepted full responsibility for my well-being. I learned to forgive. I learned to like myself better. I made peace with my maker. I learned to do. Most importantly, I learned not to rely solely on my own thoughts.

Not long ago, I ran into a therapist who said in passing, “I see you are alive.” I smiled and thanked him for his help. Despite my frustrations about therapy, I do appreciate what I have learned from my therapists. I will always be a work in process. The coping skills they imparted still have utility.

In many ways I have been lucky. Those without the capacity to change are tragic. Sympathy is not an elixir. We must do better.

Be well.

desultory agglomeration.... you are always adding to my vocabulary Byz. Now if only they could stick!!

Thank you Byz for sharing more of your story with us. I appreciate how you are able to see the positives in your experiences.

I can relate to your decision not to marry or have children. I was on that same track for most of my life. It was a surprise manic time when I hooked up with my son's dad and my life flipped in a new direction. My concern was if I could trust myself to hang in long enough to raise a child or if my life would follow the path of my mother. I do worry about how predisposed he is to suffering some of the same ills. I pray not.

I was the same way about relationships. I never did marry my son's father. I always figured it was just a matter of time before he move on. Looking back I know I never really invested in the relationship. Even when I got sick and he would try to reassure me that I didn't need to worry about work I would never let myself rely on that. I don't think I ever really let him be my partner in life. We just lived parallel for a while. Relationships are tough at the best of time. I am amazed when people make it work.

It is surprising those kinds of life altering experiences were never discussed in therapy. I don't have much experience with therapy but I would have expected a good amount of time would have been resolving childhood trauma and esteem issues. I wonder if it is ever too late if you still have issues to work through.

I think I have always taken responsibility for own well-being. Sometimes to my detriment because I don't always know what is best for me. Anytime I did go looking for professional help it would usually go sour very quickly or the support moved away. It would just feed my abandonment issues and strengthen my resolve to going it alone. I do have a circle of family and community support but I am not very comfortable asking for help. I either feel too exposed and vulnerable or I feel too imposing. The negative always cancels out the positive so I hold back. Nevertheless being tightly knit into a family and a community has positive effects without me needing to ask for special attention.

I so agree.... if you can't change you are going to be stuck rehashing the past and sympathy is highly over rated. It can really be counter productive.

So clearly for you at the end of the day therapy, with all its ups and downs was useful for you. Can you say the same about your med therapy over the years? Or do you think over the long term it caused more problems for you?

I listened to an interesting and thought provoking lecture by Robert Whitaker on CPAC tonight. In his book Anatomy of an Epidemic he shares a lot of research that he suggests evidences a need for a total paradigm shift about mental health treatment. He debunks a lot of myths broadly accepted as fact. He is pressing for less use of medication and more psycho-social approaches. He is not against medication but he suggests it is being used too soon and at too high a dosage. He also thinks it is critical that future decisionmaking needs to factor in the long term effects of med treatment and not just look at the short term effects. Its the long term evidence that is distressing. He has no answer how the shift could happen when the big pharm basically own academic psychiatry who are stuck in tunnel vision. His hope is that outside of psychiatry the shift will take hold at a community level. Feeding right into my arguement about the importance of community connections. Its a 90 minute lecture and Q&A but well worth the time.

Here is the link.....

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Epidem

Hello, sanityseeker. Thank you for your comments and sharing. Thank you too for the Whitaker link. I have been following Whitaker's blog, Mad in America, at Psychology Today. Articles like this one raise serious concerns: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...in-development

As with therapy, I have been thinking about the efficacy of the medications I have been prescribed. At one point I was taking 5 mg of Xanax (Alprazolam) a day to manage anxiety. That is a lot. The thought of being close to homeless and jobless was the stressor. Some of the medications caused my hands to tremble. I resorted to using a cup to drink soup because I could not get a spoonful of soup from the bowl to my mouth. The side effects especially at higher dosages at times simply were terrible.

On the other hand, I do attribute some of my ability to function at a higher level to medications. When I started with the medications I thought they were wonder drugs that would help me put my illness behind me. Instead, I learned of the placebo effect and trial and error. Sometimes I thought I was part of a non-control group experiment for a pharmaceutical company.

On balance, I think medications helped me bridge the gap from expecting others to fix me to understanding I was responsible for any fixing that had to be done.

I thin one valuable resource that I had was that I came from a family with roots in medicine. I was raised with a more realistic expectation of what medication could and could not do. I was also raised with a different understanding idea of the word "model" than most; a model is to help understand a concept; when it no longer works you mover to another, you don't keep tryin to force facts to fit it. Unfortunately, a lot of psychology, and psychiatry, is , as Venus Hailey pointed out, a "soft science" and does not have this concept of the term. "model" is used more like Theology. My problem is I already have a God.

Older medications for pain and other illnesses do not have disclaimers because people thought they understood the mechanisms on which they functioned and such were not required when they went on the market. This is different with neuroleptics as they are much newer and the theories more conflicted. This is on the cusp for changing as pain medications are being augmented by medications commonly used for other disorders. In fact,some of the drugs used for psych meds were once developed as tranquilizers or pain use originally, but didn't make it past the trials for acute pain use.

The fact is we don't know, and not just about the brain. If we try to admit that, you can see the reaction. I'm willing to say, you know, i'm not sure why this works for me, but it does. I haven't beaten my kids into basketcases like my grandmother did, I haven't killed myself as I was on the way to doing. I am not a social case, nor am I totally dependant on my husband to take care of me and tell me how to think, as numerous other women in my family are who can't work from being "over sensitive" or whatever it is. I'm not run of the mill, not average or perfect, don't want to be, but I function. I give my therapists and the meds and medica development that, and also the willingness to say, "That's as far as I am willing to let the brain busters take me. I'm going to have to do the rest."
Thanks for the thread Byz, the discussion, you'all! Happy New year!

Thanks for the link Byz. I look forward to reading it. I was quite impressed with him and his work. I think it is very important information for all of us to know.

I like what you say about medication being a bridge for you. It sounds very wise. As you know it took a long time and a lot of inner battling before I relented to family pressure to take meds. Fortunately my doctor was understanding and started me on a very low dose and didn't pour on too many. It has been 4 months now and so far so good. I am grateful I have not needed to increase the dosage though there was a period where I thought maybe it might be necessary.

The nagging issue I have is not knowing if the current state of my wellness is a 'natural' break in episodes or if it really is because of the meds. I still have the odd bad day or days and difficult moments that I have to rely on coping management skills and knowledge to pull me through. So I wonder. I feel as though my abilities to face triggers is better because I know what is happening and why and I know what to do to help myself keep things from escalating out of control. I know what to do to attend to myself and for the most part I elect to do it.

I still want off the meds in due time. I have an appointment with a pdoc in February..... only 6 months since my GP put in the request. I will hold out till then to talk about getting off the meds. I will be interested to hear his position on treatment.

I appreciated reading all that you said in your post lonegael but especially this. Both you and Byz pointed out, and I couldn't agree more, that its no single thing that brings relief. One needs to employ a variety of help aides including work one does for oneself to see any positive changes. Each has a role to play but one without the other is not going to be nearly as effective if effective at all.

I also think in this context that we have to think more broadly about what each of the helping aids involves. Meds may not always mean psych meds exclusively. They can include changes in diet and the addition of certain foods or nutritional supplements or the avoidance of certain foods or herbal medicines. Therapy as we have already discussed can come from a variety of sources not just a psych specialist. It can come from family, clergy, spiritual teachers. It can come from community engagement and human interaction. It is about connecting and trusting and having a place to go to talk and learn about oneself and how to interact in the world.

The self work eventually becomes self evident. I know in the early days of my dx.... or at least the last time when I decided they might be right about me.... I fell hard into a pity party of hopelessness and dispair. I felt a prisoner to the illness and its symptoms. I was giving up. I had developed coping skills over the course of my lifetime on the merry go round but I don't think I understood how to apply them or how to call upon them situationally especially when things went really off the rails sometimes. They were more part of an overall wellness strategy that I drew upon in daily life but because of my ignorance about what I was dealing with psychologically they failed me when I hit the crazies.

Because I had been in denial for so long about my dx and was pretty ignorant about the illness itself I didn't have a context or any points of reference to fully explain or undersand my behaviours. I wasn't learned enough to link my symptoms to the illness. When I made that link was when I think I started to take responsibility. Instead of giving up and thinking myself a basketcase without hope of being anything more, without hope life could be okay even with the bi polar, I had to learn how to change how I reacted to things as they happened. I had to take responsibility for coping no matter what. Enough being mad or sad or giving up I had to stand up and face things head on with a sense of love and kindness for myself. How I dealt with the thoughts in my head, my reactions to things, my energy flows. All of it. I discovered I could make advances if I learned to apply what I knew about balance and harmony, holism and unity in the context of bi polar specific behaviour and patterns so I could get off the pity train.

I can be positive now because today I am in a good place. Because of the meds, maybe, because of my attention to symptoms and living a healthier lifestyle, maybe, because I have people I can talk to, because I have people I can care for, maybe. Maybe because of all these things combined. Until I crash again I won't know how well each or any treatment is working. For now I just won't rock the boat.

ps... lonegael... what is medicadevelopment? Is that something to do with the work you do with children?

Nah, my poor spelling of medical and development getting run together because I type too fast Sorry about that!

Medica Development Corporation

http://www.linkedin.com/companies/me...nt-corporation

Profit always seems to trump integrity these days.

Treatment Advocacy Center is another group that inveigled me. Its talk is good:

Mission

The Treatment Advocacy Center is a national nonprofit organization dedicated to eliminating barriers to the timely and effective treatment of severe mental illnesses. The organization promotes laws, policies and practices for the delivery of psychiatric care and supports the development of innovative treatments for and research into the causes of severe and persistent psychiatric illnesses, such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

Activities

Since its founding in 1998, The Treatment Advocacy Center has grown to be a respected, independent voice for reforming treatment laws nationwide. We engage in a wide range of activities and projects aimed at increasing treatment for people with severe mental illnesses. Twenty-two states have made important changes to their treatment laws as a direct result of our advocacy since we were founded, and more progress is on the horizon. This website is designed to provide the public and policy makers with a reliable source of information about state treatment laws and family members with information and resources for helping loved ones with severe mental illness. http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.o...d=14&Itemid=43

Its ties to Big Pharma and duplicity are not.

The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has an excellent article about mental illness and the controversies extant: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mental-illness/

The link is to a dated article at Radical Psychology about mental health care after capitalism.

http://radicalpsychology.org/vol4-2/Martinez4.html

Thanks Byz for the links. I look forward to reading them and offering some comments. Did you listen to Whitaker's lecture?

Whitaker's lecture is scary.

i cannot thank you enough, Byz, and all who have made this thread one of the most cogent and relevant in the entire forum, inho~!! the day when i could write out my experiences so well are behind me, and ahead of me, but not here with me now. but i can still understand what is being said, and it is so important for me to know that thinking individuals are thinking like me~~! and i am thinking like you.... whew~! who am i, and who am i becoming ?

I thought so too Byz. Very scary. There was a lot to absorb. I had to keep replaying through the lecture to actually grasp what he was saying. I really appreciated how he provided an overview of the history of mental illness and psychiatry. And how he explained the brains response to the meds to clarify myth from truth. That was all very scary.

Some of the other things that stick out for me was when he said the greatest predictor of the chances of suffering a relapse is if you live in a developed country. People in poor developing countries like India, Columbia and Nigeria have a better change of remission then people in developed countries like Canada and the US etc. Another really disturbing part of the lecture was when he shared the numbers of children on psych meds and how rapidly it is increasing. Turning children into life long mental health patients. Its criminal and out of control. So much information. I will have to go listen to it again. My brain just doesn't retain information like it used to.

*sigh* Boy, I'm doing a lot of that these days.

I've not been pleased with the media tactics endorsed by the TAC. I do feel they have contributed greatly to the myth that people with mental illness, schizophrenics in particular, are violent and other people should fear them.

I referenced that here: http://forums.psychcentral.com/showp...1&postcount=43

That same devaluation and demonization is used to justify treatment like the kind John has received. In fact, it's been a common theme -- people think he's locked up because he committed some kind of horrible crime. He did not.

I also find it difficult to invest much credence in the founder's assertion that schizophrenia is caused by a germ in cat poop and can be transmitted as an airborne virus.

When I read that he had deliberately inflated the number of murders committed by the mentally ill (from 13 to 1000) as a means of trying to elicit fear in the public (who might thus, feel the programs TAC promotes were justified as a means of public safety) I was angry.

When I further discovered that his program had helped fund Joseph Biederman's attempts to legitimize the diagnosis of pediatric bipolar disorder in children, toddlers and infants ... I thought of Rebecca Riley and knew I'd never be able to champion his cause.

Fortunately, I do have a list of other clinicians I consider to be worthy of admiring, learning from and championing. The opinions of others may vary.

My thanks to Dr. Grohol for this article:

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...-side-effects/

Hope takes a hit when expectations do not coincide with results.

Ain't that the truth.

"....nearly random trial-and-error practice is what constitutes the basis of modern psychiatry."

Perhaps if more in the profession would honestly admit this there would be fewer false expectations setting people up to have their hopes crushed. Perhaps people would rely less on narrow, sometimes single courses of treatment and embrace wholistic healing models.

Often there is little room in the established system to do much more then rely on a single course of action. Complimentary and supporting treatment is often so slow to be incorporated they have less then optimal effect.

The long wait times to see a pdoc or to begin talk therapy often means someone will by default turn to meds prematurally. The risks of doing nothing can be deadly. Meds become the easiest and fastest option and when people are in crisis they need an immediate response. Doctors dole out prescriptions because it is the easiest and by and large is the only option they have to offer the "hope" of immediate relief. This need for immediacy results in disjointed treatment. The inability of the system to offer a comprehensive wholistic approach from the start means long term outcomes are compromised.

I often wonder if it were more the norm to immediately enter into talk therapy before any dx or med treatment was offered how many would see results without the need for meds or at least the need for the hap hazard prescibing and experimenting with meds.

We see that here. A teenager with suicidal tendencies will get "evaluated" within two weeks to fit in the timetable and then left for months, sometimes nearly a year before a therapy contact is established. The evaluation is only made to make it seem as if there is no waiting list. Myself, in such a situation, am not as Anti AD, but no appreciable progress can be made without that talk therapy contact. The whole system is made for administrative conveniance, not for the best of the patient.

Wouldn't that also reflect limited therapy resources, so that the evaluation process has to work something like triage?

It probably wouldn't be that easy to fix, except maybe a little at a time through something like education. If therapy were suddenly made a lot more available the demand would probably go up, the quality would probably go down, and funding would probably pose a problem.