Eugenics in 1911

The eugenics movement continued in the United States far past 1911. It was used in the form of racial discrimination even into the 1970s, when Black and Native women, especially those on government aid and with multiple children, underwent forced sterilization when they were threatened with an end to government aid, or were sterilized without their knowledge. There was also a period where black men in Tuskegee Alabama were infected with syphilis or not told they already had it, and were then denied treatment, all without their knowledge, to study the progression of the disease: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskege...lis_experiment Racism, sexism, classism. Upward mobility and societal standing have been a huge part of the evil side of the eugenics movement, which is why people have such a problem with it, particularly since the upper classes are the ones who institute these programs, because they have the power to. One of the biggest problems with classism, everywhere, is that is has everything to do with money, not genetics at all. You have to have money to make money. If you are born into terrible circumstances, your opportunities are greatly reduced. Tuition is unaffordable for a majority of people, regardless of their intelligence. These are not factors of breeding, but of the greed of the upper classes, and the fact that people seem to matter a lot less than money, and it has always been that way. It seems to be more systematic now in North America, things are getting worse in Canada too, now that our new Prime Minister has unfrozen tuition caps. My cousin is the only person in our family to have attended university. She is fantastically bright, as are many of my family members, including my brother, who makes less than I do, and spends his free time doing more challenging things than most people. My cousin's education has been paid for almost entirely from government grants and scholarships, because she's Native. It's an interesting twist, I think, on the racial perspective, considering native history since colonization. I don't agree that race should be the determining factor for whether or not a person can get a good education, but my cousin is one of the most deserving people of a chance like this that I know. And she is becoming an even more awesome person because of it. As I mentioned earlier, there are still states where some forms of testing are REQUIRED before marriage. Wikipedia, Eugenics, Syphilis, second section "United States": "There are some states that require a blood test prior to marriage.[152] While these tests are typically restricted to the detection of the sexually transmitted disease syphilis (which was the most common STD at the time these laws were enacted), some partners will voluntarily test for other diseases and genetic incompatibilities. Harris polls in 1986 and 1992 recorded majority public support for limited forms of germ-line intervention, especially to prevent "children inheriting usually fatal genetic disease".[153] Furthermore, Family cap is put in practice in many U.S. states." To bring up Autism again, there is definitely a genetic basis for the disorder. There is a spectrum in all humans, and one could almost say that the spectrum of Autism begins at "Nerdy". I realize that sounds really odd, but hear me out. I'm not claiming to be an expert, this is just something I have noticed, and there is some evidence to back it up. One of my best friends works in the field of IT, in a fairly high level of systems engineering, often working on special projects. I won't tell you the company or products, though I'd love to. Anyway, there has always been something different about him, in the way he relates to people and objects. A high degree of obliviousness when it comes to politeness or the level of comfort of those around him and what their needs may be, and with a pre-occupation with objects and intricate systems. As an example, his brother lived in the Yukon for a while, and when he got the news that his brother was coming home, his first words were, "Sam's coming home from the Yukon... which means he'll be bringing his xbox!" This was several years ago when xbox was new. He did not graduate high school. He didn't need to to get where he is, because his skills, the way his mind works, these things can not be taught. He spent several years after dropping out in his parents' basement teaching himself different types of programming, and learning the way the internet worked before most people even knew what it was. In some respects he is a genius on a level most people will never reach. And on others, such as social settings, or when he can sense that someone is in need of something but has no idea what, or even when it comes to his own emotional reactions, he *just doesn't get it*. The reason I bring this up is that there is a marked jump in the numbers of autistic children who are born to people in the fields of engineering and programming. This was first recognized at Microsoft, when higher than usual numbers of parents who met at Microsoft began having Autistic children. I'll see if I can find an article for you: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9...ergers_pr.html I wish I could find a better article. But it was noticed several years ago that when both parents are, for lack of better words, nerds like my room mate, the chances of producing an autistic child are heightened. So, while autism is recognized as being debilitating on one end of the spectrum, there are also traits that make people amazing at doing other things on the lower end of the spectrum. I'm not really sure why this is happening so much more now than before, except that people with these exceptional skills are now highly sought after in an age of high-tech everything, and people with these skill sets are brought together in large numbers as never before, so it is perhaps inevitable. There's something that happens to our brains, that puts us all on this spectrum in different ways. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, there have been absolutely no environmental factors proven to have an affect on the incidence of Autism, though many people, who are angry and desperate and need something to blame, have rallied against childhood vaccinations and various other things. So genetic research, and understanding why certain parents are more likely to produce Autistic children, is our best hope in that regard.

I'm sorry for the walls of text, I'm not good at figuring out formatting on these forums

Biblioknitter: The goal is not to increase the population. That would also be an illogical goal, which is why planned parenthood is so important. Quality, not quantity :P (that's a joke, by the way '_')

Enjoyed the post Pink_Lotus. Reading your posts I am amazed to learn you haven't been to college. Your thoughts are so well organized and your posts are very well written. I'm glad you posted more on the later history of eugenics in the US. You're probably aware that a lot of my fellow US citizens aren't aware of some of the events you mentioned. Some would even deny that they occurred. I don't know how it is in other parts of this country... but most of the darker events in US (and Texas) history aren't taught in Texas public schools. I didn't finish my first year of high school much less attend college but there are always ways to learn.
As this country moves more toward the right politically, I wouldn't be surprised if eugenics becomes a hot topic again.

Eh, don't worry about the wall of words, I do it too, I dont know how to make it smaller etc.

Your post is very interesting, well arcangel, we call it dumbing down of America in my neck of the woods.

And stumpy, I work around alot of children, probably see over a 1,000 a year. And I have to tell you, some of the nicest children did not live in rich homes. Some of the real prizes come from small homes and yes, your right not always from highly educated rich people.

I have always told many parents that the size of the house and the kind of car was not important, what was important is that it is a home where children feel safe and loved. Stumpy Im glad to hear that you are an advocate for children, good for you.

I have to think about the autistic children being from nerdy types. Two special ed teachers, had one, my niece has one and they are not nerds, but my neice spent a lot of time on the computer. I see it spread around more than just nerds. So I don't know about that therory. However in my family line there was a great deal of intelligence so maybe my neices son got that thu that way. He does love trains and mechanical things. But I have seen them very debilitated, and backward, not even able to do much at all. It is quite possible that it was always there and we just didn't see it but we benefited from it.

And pachyderm thats a good question there, who would do the testing. That could be very tricky and a private agenda could take place.

Although it is found that often when a brain lacks in one area it can be very highly operating in another area.

It is interesting. And again, I have to say, I would just like to see children raised better and have the chance to use whatever brainpower they have instead of dealing with abuse or neglect for the rest of their lives. Personally that debilitates more than anything, in society, and the billions spent on therapy and such.

Open Eyes

I'm not going to say anything, except maybe this thread should have a trigger warning. I don't know about everyone else, but this topic has triggered something fierce in me - but more of a deep sense of anger than anything else. It was my own foolishness that made me click on this thread of course, no one's forcing me or anyone else to read it, but I think it should be considered.

Just a thought.

There is a Return key on your keyboard. Hit it twice to separate paragraphs.

Anger has its uses too.

Yeah, it wasn't working for some reason. I was separating my paragraphs but it never came out separated *shrugs*. Thanks, though

Yes, the dumbing down of America. It's a shame and even more so because it hardly seems to take much effort for some. It's amazing what an iphone, 40" tv, and a PS3 will do.

i thought this thread was shocking at first, then i was angry, but really whats the point of it, the concept is absurd, people want to live, its the nature of the world to procreate,its why attraction exists. If you wanna debate this it goes hand in hand with no longer providing medical treatment to anyone, if its survival of the fittest then All the weak and ill must be left for nature to take its course. And thats a pointless argument to, the world has turned to many times for that.

As the world turns remember that soap? I think its been on since the world started turning. LOL
rapidcycla

i know what ur refering to, but ive never seen it, is it terrible?

To be honest with you, I never really watched it, don't care for soaps but I know that it has been one that has been on ever since I can remember, I think my mom watched it when I was young. I remember trying to watch it once and the houses where they live, well nobody is that clean and perfect unless they have a live in maid. And who always looks so perfectly well dressed every day?

No offense to soap fans, just not my thing. Some of those story lines get so rediculous.

Sorry to get of topic, I was just being a bit light hearted. I guess I didn't want people to get too upset with this thread, I think it was pretty much started as just a topic to ponder.

It is aways interesting to see the different oppinions of the people here at PC. And, well, I don't like anyone triggered and upset.

Open Eyes

I am not referring to the past when it comes to having children, that was a different time and overcrowding was not a problem like it is today.

By the people smart enough not to contribute to the overpopulation of a planet that we are killing.

I never said that I don't think you or anyone in your situation should have been born, but I think that for the sake of the planet and society we need to rethink why we feel the need to procreate, this is not 1911 and we are not all farming societies who need large families to run the farm. If all cats and dogs were not spayed/neutered can you imagine how overrun the world would be with unwanted animals(even worse than it already is.) Does this planet really need another unwanted child?

I do not recall stating anything about goal being an increased population, we are already at that point. As a Planned Parenthood volunteer for over 10 years I would like to remind you of the motto "Every child a wanted child."

As a person born with a physical and metal disability I am more than aware that if Eugenics were practiced in my hometown I would have been erased from the population-and after the lifetime of suffering I have endured there are times when I wish I had been.

While it is ingrained in living creatures to pro-create not everyone feels it is necessary and the notion that having a child fulfills one's debt to society is old-fashioned and quite absurd. People can fulfill the debt to society by volunteering/community service to those less fortunate than themselves, personally I find this much more rewarding than breast feeding.

If the people who worry about overpopulation do not have children, and those who do not worry about it do have children, then guess which ones will take over...

Yes that is exactly the point I am trying to make, futile as it is....

Eugenics was a concept of the last century. We now live in the 21st century. Such conceps have been proved to be wrong (in deciding who lives and who does not). Every one, every human living deserves to have children, everyone is equall no matter what the case. If we try to play god, then we (human race), will become staid. Genetics is the key to survival, one day in the far future we will not be able to mix genetics, thats the day when we will have to pray for a strain from another planet. To not allow genetics to follow its own path is like asking for trouble. But, thanks to the subject-Genetics, alot i know live (stem cell). We are natual in trying to control genetics, but we cannot say " i deserve life, but you do not". I love genetics and the persuit of knowing the subject of controlling how humans grow. In the end though there will allways be a thread of something that remains a mystery, thats the point. I though could never decide and say, i'm better than another human in genetical terms.

I understand from know-how as I was granted an implant for this to halt my time span in order that I could mend from surgery. It had a edge result that chucked me into critical despondency, I signify absolutely disabled.

I have spent twenty years married into a family where my parent in laws are firm believers of eugenics, and if there is one thing I have learned, it's that the proponents of eugenics usually see themselves as the models of humans who should be bred after, and are actually far from what any breeding program would objectively choose. Bad mothering, inflexibility and social incompetecy, all of which can be traced down several generations aren't traits you want in a blood line no matter how well educated you are or what color eyes you might have. Basically eugenics has, from the begining, been a way of controlling the people who "aren't our kind, dear". Yes, certain types of mental illness have fallen into that category.

Now to give the coin a flip, if I had a daughter who had mental handicap that would make her unable to care for herself and would leave her vulnerable to abuse or exploitation by men, I think I would definitely discuss with her some kind of contraception. I have known women in this position who have ended up having children because they have been used, and this has not been a good thing, mostly for the mother. The child has usually been fine. I realize that some people get all hot and bothered about "the mentally weak reproducing themselves" but a lot of parents are really afraid for their kids, how it would be to have parenthood forced on them when they can't handle it, to go through a pregnancy when they don't understand it. As it is, I have a boy who I have to teach to keep his hands to himself.

After having two kids go through delayed speech acquisition, hellish childhoods with ear infections that would not stop, odd sterotypical behavior that simply disappeared with my oldest when he started talking at 4 and didn't stop with my youngest, my husband and I decided to stop having children. Both of us felt that that there was some genetic combination that wasn't working, that even though we really wanted more children, there was no garantee that the results wouldn't be even worse, and that even if they weren't, our youngest needed so much time that neither he nor the oldest could get what they needed if we had a new baby in the house. It hurt, but we stopped, not for "human kind" but for our family, and because frankly, we couldn't stand to see another baby go through that. Huggs