[buddhablessd]

its true

Was dating a woman 5-10 yrs ago who had a lot of psychiatric visits and outbursts. She was actually a nice religious girl, however it was obvious she had problems. She had anger mngmnt and outbursts. could not keep a steady job or relations, and was highly unstable.She was prescribed meds, but never took them. Never used drugs, or alc, however smoked cigs. constantly. She also drank coffee incessantly.
,
Anyway, one day she broke someone's window, and was sent through the system, in nyc,. She had an outburst in court and was hosp. at a decent ny psych facility. I went to visit her on a regular, and one day while waiting, saw on the wall an article from the new england journal of med. of the findings of studies on tobacco users and mental illness. The statistics and chemical findings were indisputable. A legal poison for profit.

Thanks, buddhablessd. The tobacco companies knew what they were doing and did not care.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by buddhablessd

its true

Was dating a woman 5-10 yrs ago who had a lot of psychiatric visits and outbursts. She was actually a nice religious girl, however it was obvious she had problems. She had anger mngmnt and outbursts. could not keep a steady job or relations, and was highly unstable.She was prescribed meds, but never took them. Never used drugs, or alc, however smoked cigs. constantly. She also drank coffee incessantly.
,
Anyway, one day she broke someone's window, and was sent through the system, in nyc,. She had an outburst in court and was hosp. at a decent ny psych facility. I went to visit her on a regular, and one day while waiting, saw on the wall an article from the new england journal of med. of the findings of studies on tobacco users and mental illness. The statistics and chemical findings were indisputable. A legal poison for profit.

True but for many mental ill people smokeing an coffee , are there only friend an a great comfort.

[sorrel]

Well, I have a mental illness, am 41, and have never smoked in my life. [Or drunk, for that matter.]

[Christine08]

yeah I agree with sewerrats.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by sorrel

Well, I have a mental illness, am 41, and have never smoked in my life. [Or drunk, for that matter.]

i didnt say it was compulsory, but there are loads of mentally ill people never took a antidepressant, they are addicted to cigs an coffee, there no different to me being hooked on benzo,s an AD,s

[Visioneer]

The effects of nervous system stimulants like nicotine and caffeine, and their resultant dependence and side-effects, are not unknown to science or the general public, so this finding is not surprising.

Clearly people feel they benefit from many of the things they are addicted to or even emotionally dependent on, simply because they suffer the lack of them after using them for a long time (discontinuation syndrome), not because they were better off with them in the first place. These are situations where the benefits are obviously outweighed by their detriments to our physical and mental health. Sugar falls into this category as well. Lots of every-day things have the potential for abuse.

Denying that the destabilizing effects of our self-administered doses of these things are detrimental to mental well-being would frankly be silly.

The other side of the coin is that people who are mentally unstable are more likely to reach for this kind of crutch, so correlation, as with much statistical data, does not equal causation.

Hello again, buddhablessd. After reading your posts, I will simply wish you and your friend the best in getting this matter sorted.

[sorrel]

My point is that generalisations cannot be made. There's a huge stereotype that everyone with a mental illness smokes. And that is just not the case.
I don't see that one can get addicted to anti-depressants. One tends to need them alongside emotional support to help stabilise the brain chemistry, and they're professionally prescribed.
I've had mental health problems since childhood, due to trauma and abuse, certainly not smoking, or the lack of.
And I actually am somewhat phobic to cigarette smoke due to health reasons and also associations of someone who smoked to a difficult period in my life. Perhaps that's part of the issue for me here.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by sorrel

My point is that generalisations cannot be made. There's a huge stereotype that everyone with a mental illness smokes. And that is just not the case.
I don't see that one can get addicted to anti-depressants. One tends to need them alongside emotional support to help stabilise the brain chemistry, and they're professionally prescribed.
I've had mental health problems since childhood, due to trauma and abuse, certainly not smoking, or the lack of.
And I actually am somewhat phobic to cigarette smoke due to health reasons and also associations of someone who smoked to a difficult period in my life. Perhaps that's part of the issue for me here.

So you dont think you can get addicted to antidepressants, try detoxing 300mg of effexor an you will soon change your mind. You so seem to have the wrong idea of my answer, A lot of people with SA or other mental illnesses , use cigs as there self medication, they get theraputic vibes from them its there crutch . Take them away an the crumble, same with drink, a worker may stop every night on his way from home for a couple of drinks to de stress . Or crack open abottle of wine has he walk,s through the door. WITHOUT these release,s they would be down the gp getting AD,S . So im mentally ill an take meds , they may be mentally ill an dont trust meds so do there own self medication. They are in no more danger than me. my meds distroy body organs , smokeing an drinking does the same.So nobody win,s on this one.

Are you still following along, buddhablessd?

[Fresia]

Buddhablessd,
I am so sorry to hear about your friend's situation. I don't know if you are still in contact but hope she is doing better now. I know how hard that is to watch someone go through and the support in invaluable but self-preservation is important too.

I am curious about the study you mentioned seeing. Cigs are toxic and addictive, no doubt. The tobacco companies count on it. As far as its connection with the percentage of the mental health population begin singled out for users vs the general population, I don't know about this connection being made and would have to see the studies. It is addictive for all of the population no matter.

----------------
In response to the other posts:

ANY substance, ANY!, put in the body can have harmful effects and why it is important to do your research, work closely with your physician, and monitor any changes that occur while on it.

Some substances have more addictive qualities than others changing neural pathways leaving an imprint, and a need for that substance. Nicotine is a primary example of this, it replaces the natural substances causing the brain to make less of its own. In time, leaving a deficit that only the stimulant can make up until a long period of absence can regenerate itself. AD's typically do not have this same permanent altering of the neural pathway, as the chemicals were not there to begin with, and why, though there may be an elimination/detoxifying period coming off of it, there are not the cravings for it afterward. In time, all of the pathways can be changed, even with addictions, and can be overcome to alter the the cravings and change the brain's chemistry, though not easy.

If there is a chemistry deficit to begin with such as with depression, then this is merely a need to compensate for what is already missing. This is not considered 'addiction'. AD's are not habit-forming and unless it is the wrong med for you, you are taking ag/ med advice, or illegally, but it is typically not harmful (unless it is the wrong one) until you find the right one and this takes time usually; but it is not addiction. Just because they are used regularly does make them habit-forming in this context; taking them daily is a habit that forms, but not a habit-forming need.

Definition of ADDICTION (Merriam -Webster)
1: the quality or state of being addicted <addiction to reading>
2: compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

[sorrel]

For what it's worth, I withdrew from 150mg efexor and it was hellish. But in no way was I addicted to it, because it never really worked for me - it wasn't a med best suited to me. I was only too glad to get off the stuff, believe me!

[Ygrec23]

Two points:

People with head problems frequently (not always) self-medicate. Their illness causes pain and discomfort. As human beings, they try to resolve that pain and discomfort in whatever way they can. So, frequently (not always) they use things like alcohol, nicotine, caffeine or whatever to feel better. So far as I know no one is yet in a position to say that it's proven that these substances DO NOT alleviate symptoms of some head problems. They may well do so. And it is true that, statistically, a larger percentage of people with head problems smoke cigarettes than the general population.

For all we know at present, the comforts provided to people with head problems by nicotine, caffeine and alcohol aren't illusory, are not limited to the simple fulfillment of an addictive need. They may well provide benefits above and beyond the other benefits that can easily be obtained by such sufferers. It would be very valuable indeed to have solid answers to all of these issues. I'd hope that NIDA is funding projects for such knowledge right now. But as things stand at present, I don't think we can easily dismiss the analgesic properties of these substances for people with head problems.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by sorrel

For what it's worth, I withdrew from 150mg efexor and it was hellish. But in no way was I addicted to it, because it never really worked for me - it wasn't a med best suited to me. I was only too glad to get off the stuff, believe me!

Ocourse you were addicted , you just said you had hellish withdrawl, you dont withdraw if not addicted, you just stop end off. Effexor is has you say one of the worst to withdraw from. Heroin only takes 7 days in rehab with follow up treatment. EFFEXOR takes anything up to a year on a high dose.

[sorrel]

Well, I agree to disagree. As I cannot believe that a year of taking a medication that resulted in no to very little sleep [less than I had before...], constant nausea and lack of appetite and quite extreme weight loss [I was already underweight] can possibly be an addiction! Sure, my brain needed to acclimatise to life without it, but it was actually relieved, I felt so much better off it. It had literally no 'feel good' factor to it at all! Sure, negative depressed mind probably was attached to it, but she sure ain't all of me!

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by sorrel

Well, I agree to disagree. As I cannot believe that a year of taking a medication that resulted in no to very little sleep [less than I had before...], constant nausea and lack of appetite and quite extreme weight loss [I was already underweight] can possibly be an addiction! Sure, my brain needed to acclimatise to life without it, but it was actually relieved, I felt so much better off it. It had literally no 'feel good' factor to it at all! Sure, negative depressed mind probably was attached to it, but she sure ain't all of me!

Why the hell did you take it for a year with those side effects, i took effexor for 3 month trial,it was not for me, so binned them. I dont understand why you took it for a year, without changeing to a more suited med.

[sorrel]

Long story about a GP I'd never met in my life before who didn't ask the right/any questions before prescribing [I was too unwell then myself to say], and a breakdown a year later which led me to being urgently referred to the psychiatrist for medication evaluation. I don't know why it took the very good GP who took over my care so long, but maybe she was waiting to see what was what. Anyway, it all turned out good enough in the end.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by sorrel

Long story about a GP I'd never met in my life before who didn't ask the right/any questions before prescribing [I was too unwell then myself to say], and a breakdown a year later which led me to being urgently referred to the psychiatrist for medication evaluation. I don't know why it took the very good GP who took over my care so long, but maybe she was waiting to see what was what. Anyway, it all turned out good enough in the end.

lots of GPs are not really up on antidepressants, i mean there job has took on the roll of accessing mental illness before they pass you on to a psychiatrist. Its not really there job an only have 10 minutes to talk before the next patient. In England they pic out a med from the NHS bible, they only have generic,s mainly, but effexor is the real deal. Snri,s are useually tried second not first, you normally get an ssri like setraline which im on or celexa so if 1 dont work you cruise straight in to another without taper. After a life time of shrinks an meds i tell them now what i want, an the useually agree because they are only stabing in the dark anyway. SERTRALINE ie ZOLOFT i have found had a good alround feel good, its good with depression an anxierty but you have to wait a few month,s for anxierty kick in. You had a year on a unsutable med which is not an any way right, an you should have really stuck up for yourself an questioned your GP .That could have save a year of pain an damage to you brain. EFFEXOR is a great drug for a few patients but not me, my hair started to fall out,then 4 days after stopping it started to grow back to normal.

[elliemay]

the key to understanding addiction is not attributing it to the experience of withdrawal syndrome upon discontinuation - that's just the physiological response to the removal of a stimulus. That passes as the body re-adjusts. One can withdraw from something and NOT be addicted.

It's the cravings associated with the withdrawal. It's the cravings that make it so hard to kick. The cravings, too are physiological, but have their roots in positive reinforcement and are much more powerful and long lasting than the withdrawal symptoms.

I smoke freely and often. Why? It helps.

I'm not defending it, and certainly not promoting it, just saying it works for me.

No one starts drinking, or smoking or abusing drugs thinking "you know I want to get totally addicted to this and ruin my life".

No. It starts with a trial. If I had found smoking to be unpalatable, then clearly I would not have continued. Obviously, I get something out of it. I crave that reinforcement.

I've quit multiple times. Yeah, the withdrawal sucks, but it is replaced by something much more sinister and debilitating.

Quitting smoking was one of the most difficult things I have ever done. I have been on and off medications many times with much less difficulty.

The tobacco industry and big pharma have a lot in common:

http://www.propublica.org/article/la...r-drugs/single
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/tobacco...ry?id=14635963

[madisgram]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

Two points:

People with head problems frequently (not always) self-medicate. Their illness causes pain and discomfort. As human beings, they try to resolve that pain and discomfort in whatever way they can. So, frequently (not always) they use things like alcohol, nicotine, caffeine or whatever to feel better. So far as I know no one is yet in a position to say that it's proven that these substances DO NOT alleviate symptoms of some head problems. They may well do so. And it is true that, statistically, a larger percentage of people with head problems smoke cigarettes than the general population.

For all we know at present, the comforts provided to people with head problems by nicotine, caffeine and alcohol aren't illusory, are not limited to the simple fulfillment of an addictive need. They may well provide benefits above and beyond the other benefits that can easily be obtained by such sufferers. It would be very valuable indeed to have solid answers to all of these issues. I'd hope that NIDA is funding projects for such knowledge right now. But as things stand at present, I don't think we can easily dismiss the analgesic properties of these substances for people with head problems.

i support of your post, ygrec. it was noticed that schizs.chain smoke. causes more good feeling chemicals in the brain. this was a study that was published in the MI sector. the findings confirmed this study.

[essei 7.0]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

Quitting smoking was one of the most difficult things I have ever done. I have been on and off medications many times with much less difficulty.

I quit about 3 or 4 times before I officially quit 2 and 1/2 years ago. I figure I have tried this hard and come this far...why go back? That doesn't say that it's easy though...

So then we are to believe progress is being made by allowing consumers to pick their poison?

We may choose to stay away from medications because there is some evidence placebos are more helpful than the real thing and without the side effects or worse.

Cigarettes help schizophrenics who chain smoke to feel better on their way to asthma, emphysema, oxygen tanks and cancer. Alcohol too provides a temporary respite on the way to cirrhosis of the liver, relationship and employment problems.

My epiphany for the day.

[madisgram]

i am not an advocate to justify smoking. however the two articles i mention here explains further the studies done on schiz and smoking plus why it occurs and the payoff. http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/6/5/327.full and http://www.schizophrenia.com/szresea...es/001061.html

i caretook my schiz. ex husband for a year. he became a chain smoker before the illness manifested itself-age 18. after dx he continued this behavior. while caretaking him i managed to quit his smoking tho i had to hide my cigs in the process. i would find him taking butts off the ground and pocketing them for future use. clean health issue there. it was a constant battle. this article includes the behavior of chain smoking before the illness manifested itself. i no longer caretake him and he is back to smoking.
david has copd from smoking. that is the reaon i wanted him to stop. but i was aware of the studies and knew i was fighting an uphill battle.