One track thinking

You know, just because someone presents an alternative view doesn't mean they are opposing you personally. It doesn't mean they are invalidating your thoughts, feelings, or beliefs. It doesn't necessarily even mean they believe or endorse the alternative view they present.

What it does mean is that they are looking at more than one side of a complex issue. Frankly, the capacity to think critically and deeply about troubling issues is a good thing.

If you don't feel able to and/or interested in critical thinking about a particular subject, please do not attack the messenger. They are not attacking you. Alternative views exist about pretty much everything I can think of, and most likely much more I can't think of. Knowledge is a good thing. You can still hold your belief in the face of others' differing views and even in the face of incontrovertible evidence. That's your choice. That's everyone's choice and should be respected.

Thoughtfully,
gg

That's what makes us all special is that we are all different with different views.

Lisa

gg, i tried to think of a way to say this, as diplomatically as i could......flat out.....i'd like to see you here more, as a "regular". and i mean no offense whatsoever, we're friends, and i reallly respect your opinions.

i rarely see you here, unless you're popping into a thread where we've all been for days and days. the regulars who are struggling with something, do get into disagreements. but sometimes, i feel as though your posting comes after the disagreements and perhaps you feel that you need to straighten things out...... i am asking you to stick around more and get "in" the threads with us. join in when we're discussing our feelings and be a regular part of our community.

i think that you'd feel the same way about me popping in and out of Babble. i went over recently when someone mentioned PC in reference, and only in reference, to it being a place where disgruntled Babblers go......Dinah and i had a short thread and all was well.

there are people over there that i don't like. obviously, there are people here that you disagree with strongly. but i don't want to mix it up with those people there. and i doubt, seriously, if you like mixing it up with anyone.

i would like to see you post here more often and lend your insight to our forums.....you have an excellent background for this and having you around more would be nice.

there were things that went on yesterday that didn't solve anything. on both sides. the beginning of that thread started calmly enough.

i thought about it a lot last night and i stand by my statement of our being in over our heads and that we all should step away from the greenleaves/bob thing. i just now loggged on and i hope that is what did happen...i watched Miami whoop the Maverick's butt after that.....and peeked occasionally.

PM me, if you feel that you need to or talk to me here. whatever, let's talk........ xoxoxo pat

Thank you. It's nice to know that someone would like to see me here more. I'm wondering, though, if my statement is less "welcome" or meaningful because I am not a "regular" here? I certainly can understand why folks might feel that way. But frankly, it's this very issue that keeps me from fully participating here. I have been told before that things I've stated that do not go along with the "group think" are "not supportive". Clearly I have a different understanding of that word than the person who told me this.

I do not feel comfortable enough participating here when I see folks attacked, put down, sniped at, or otherwise treated badly for holding a minority view of something. I realize I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, because I do speak up when I'm angered and I know that comes across as attacking others, so I'm no angel. However, that's not what I want to get out of participating here. It's my own issue, perhaps because I'm quite used to and sensitive to my own feelings being invalidated. But when I see another's feelings being invalidated, particulary by a group of folks, I just start to steam, and I do feel pulled to jump in and defend the person. I'm sure that comes from my own stuff, but that does not mean that there is not also something not good going on.

Pat, I don't know if I'm ever going to feel comfortable enough to jump in with both feet here. And even if I do, there is also a time element. We all have limited amounts of time we can spend here and there. I try to balance out how I spend my online time, but that's still a work in progress.

So there you go. That's what's in my heart at the moment. You've always been a friend to me, and I appreciate your words.

Pulling the shade back down for the moment...

gg

GG, perhaps it's that invalidation that I've been feeling that has brought out the claws. You know what I'm talking about.

I'm with Pat! Sometimes I have to think twice or respond, but you seem to bring about a balance. Come see us more often, ok?

Thanks Pat and Tomi.

I think I'm feeling particularly vulnerable today. I appreciate the caring.

gg

your invitation to be here more, came from my heart. (your snorts always perk me up.) i miss you, because i don't go to babble.....except for the occasional visit..as i did recently. and i just stumbled upon the "exile" thread. while i was there, i saw numerous postings about hurts and blocks and such. i have very strong feelings concerning the blocks that are dealt out there.

in all fairness, i did see things happen at Babble that were snipey and unfair when i was there fulltime. it was difficult to be there, at times, and i felt that a lot. my feelings were hurt many times.

i could go over there now, pick out a thread where someone is upset over the way they feel that they are being treated . i almost stepped in last night because i felt a poster needed an advocate .......but i decided against it and left it where it was.....

i don't think that there is a completely perfect online support forum anywhere.

i hope that we as PCers have learned something from this past day or two. and if a situation comes up again, from Babble, we can decide, lovingly, to either try to help or just ignore the thread.

i also hope that it becomes clear that neither site is a place to go and talk about what is going on at the other site with them. neither site should be viewed in that light. i don't see how that could ever be balanced out in either community.

GG, I have always enjoyed you here and have felt supported by you and I feel that your post at the beginning of this thread is right on. I have not really been here a lot so I hate to admit that I hadn't noticed your absence. I am on only a few mins a day. Take care.

To no one in particular, really.

Can we not make this another PC against Babble thread? I've been involved in others, and nothing good ever comes of it. Two great sites, with great people, and Admins who try their best to wade through it.

Hugs, em

gee, i didn't see this as a "versus" thread, ems. i see it as gg, myself and others having a discussion and most of it seems to be centered around wishing that she was here more. i related my own experiences with Babble. i do believe that i can do that. i didn't talk about any one particular person except myself. and i talked about my feelings. i even used "i" sentences.

i remember having you here more. you helped me tremendously when i first came over here. without you, i'm certain that i would not have stayed. it was a fun time. xoxo pat p.s.

the protein is called "designer protein" and you get it at any gnc store. i also have seen identical products at other stores, but much more expensive. it has whey in it. i also saw some that "emphasized" soy in theirs????

Thank you for saying that. It means alot.

gg

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emily4040 said:
Two great sites, with great people, and Admins who try their best to wade through it.

Hugs, em

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I agree. There are good things to be found in both places. In particular, it's way cool to find you in both.

gg

Glad you like the snort. A dear friend of mine I met online got to hear it live and in person last week. Fortunately, it didn't seem to annoy her.

Take care,

gg

Annoy?? It would crack me up so bad, I'd probably have to put the chair on "high" and go for the toity!

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It doesn't mean they are invalidating your thoughts, feelings, or beliefs.

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I don't know... it sure Feels like one's "Feelings" are being INVALIDATED!

I know. "Feelings are not facts" but there are some subjects that bring out some of the strongest feelings... like Rage, maybe, that you can't "critical think" it away.

An honest question: Where is compassion and understanding on the part of the person giving alternative views? And in giving these alternative views, is there a time to stop before they wind up having to defend their position... especially when they claim to believe the same way the majority believes??

nvr mind. my request was real, but seems I figured it out...changes had been made to let me ... ta da

Sounds like everyone needs to agree to disagree on this one. Why argue about which site is better? If you don't like one, don't go there.

Just for the record tomi, it's toiety.

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SeptemberMorn said:

An honest question: Where is compassion and understanding on the part of the person giving alternative views? And in giving these alternative views, is there a time to stop before they wind up having to defend their position... especially when they claim to believe the same way the majority believes??

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I can't answer that one. It's too individual to answer generally.

Sorry.

gg

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_Sky said:
nvr mind. my request was real, but seems I figured it out...changes had been made to let me ... ta da

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Humminnahh?

GG,

In response to your initial post on this thread, I agree with you completely. I know that I enjoy hearing many different points of view on subjects. That was my most joyful part of college was getting into discussions with people & hearing many different points of views. I myself have a tendency to be the "devils advocate". I enjoy taking a subject & seeing how many different points of view I can come up with. I know for me that sometimes I will post a different thought just to throw it out there for others to think about....not necessarily a thought that I agree with or not......just a different point of view.

I grew up in a home where my parents point of view was completely narrow & they were never open to anyone elses thoughts. I used to get into arguments with them because they weren't even willing to listen to anything other than what they thought. They were definitely on the one track thinking & not open to anything else. The one thing I learned from school (from kindergarten on) was to think & with thinking comes many different thought tracks. I don't always agree with all of the different thoughts, but it is important to realize that they exist. I also realized that it is important to allow everyone to express their thoughts whether we agree or not. That is why I enjoy listening to everyone & what their thoughts are on any subject. I swore from the time I was young (based on my family experience) that I never wanted to be closed minded & that the best way for me to learn about everything was to listen to what everyone has to say. It doesn't mean that I will believe everything but it is up to me to determine what I am willing to believe or not. I also have believed all my life that everyone else should be respected with the same chance. It doesn't make anyone bad because of what thoughts they have. I know that on any subject I can have many different thoughts but there may be only a couple that I completely agree with.

As far as the babble site.....I have never been there....I don't even have time to be here very often except when I am taking a break from my hectic life right now.

Good initial post GG.....thanks,
Debbie

Thanks. My dad was and is the same way. Just no arguing with him. He has to be right and his way is the only way. And I had a similar experience with school.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

gg