Anti Wal Mart

I tell ya, as a consumer I have very mixed feelings about More Money giving you any type of Quality.

I'll go against the grain here and admit I shop at Walmart regularly. Why? Low prices, especially on disposable goods that I go through regularly. There are more of them, so it's easier to get to a Walmart than one of its competitors. I don't shop at Walmart because it *is* Walmart, if it were a Kmart or Target and it was close by, I'd probably shop there instead. For me, it's all about a convenience factor (probably even more so than the low prices).

As for quality goods... I don't know where to find those. In the past few years, I've bought some big pieces of furniture, all of it from supposedly "quality" stores. These weren't the most expensive pieces in the stores, but they also weren't the cheapest -- just middle of the road. The quality has been quite variable. The dining room set is losing chipped finish off the chairs. The TV cabinet also has finish problems. The recliner has been returned to the store twice (and the one we have still isn't quite right). I have yet to find any semblence of quality control in these pieces. Yet they all came from different stores (none of them a Walmart, but this is tangentially related), different brands, at different times.

I guess my point is that I have no idea how to buy a quality good as a consumer, unless it's a piece of electronic or computer equipment, a kitchen appliance, or a book/CD (because I can review all that stuff online at various websites).

Walmart is what it is -- it wouldn't have become as popular as it is if the culture we live in didn't value what they offer. We do value it, even if we don't like everything it does. The good news is that behomeths like Walmart come and go. Sears used to be where Walmart is today, and 20 years from now, it'll likely be some other brand.

John

I used to be very anti-Walmart, but I've changed my way of thinking over the past few years. The only scenario you ever hear about is Walmart coming to town and forcing the small businesses to close. In my town, though, the main street businesses had closed years before. When Walmart came, we actually had a place to shop that wasn't 15 miles away.

Also, I used to work retail, so I know a lot of workers in that field. Those small businesses tended to make just enough money to support the owner--the hired help were stuck in minimum-wage with no hope of advancement. Most of the people I know who work at Walmart actually like it. They make more than minimum wage, they've been promoted and are looking forward to promotions in the future, and they actually have health benefits. (And I know that Walmart hasn't always been very generous with these benefits, but ask yourself what kind of benefits package mom-and-pop were offering at the little corner store.)

Also, low prices demonstrably improve the quality of life for low-income people. $20 buys a lot more stuff at a Walmart than it buys in most other stores. If your money goes further, that's a good thing. (As for poorly-made goods, price isn't always the best guide. A Hanes t-shirt, for example, is the same product at Walmart as it is at Target, Sears, etc. I know people who have expensive clothes that are absolute junk.)

And finally, there are small businesses in the area that have benefitted. Higher-end botique stores are thriving now because wealthier people are willing to pay a premium for personalized attention and rare goods. We also have a Sam's Club twenty miles down the road, and a lot of the local businesspeople are going there for cheaper supplies.

Sorry this post was so long. Just wanted to throw my two cents in there. Walmart does some crappy things, but in my community at least, it does more good than harm.

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DocJohn said:
I guess my point is that I have no idea how to buy a quality good as a consumer, unless it's a piece of electronic or computer equipment, a kitchen appliance, or a book/CD (because I can review all that stuff online at various websites).

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giggle . . . but that is soooo true.

the word "consumers" is so appropriate . . . we consume . . . we need to consume . . . not a pretty sight . . . Wal-mart and other big business appeals to consumption.

also, it would be nice if our members would start reviewing here . . . hint, hint, notice the link above called "Rate 'n Review"

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DocJohn said:
Walmart is what it is -- it wouldn't have become as popular as it is if the culture we live in didn't value what they offer. We do value it, even if we don't like everything it does. The good news is that behomeths like Walmart come and go. Sears used to be where Walmart is today, and 20 years from now, it'll likely be some other brand.

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We are stuck!

Maybe one day, the next behomeths will be environmentally friendly . . . not in my lifetime, huh? . . . Not if I keep shopping at Wal-mart. I went there yesterday and charged on my VISA (cha-ching, my debt increases and the economy benefits? the circle of life?)

I found myself basically forced to shop at Wal-Mart today, but it was all for consumables - food and supplements. All the same brands that I would buy at a local, privately-owned store but at a slightly lower price. I had to run to town to replace my keyboard, so while I was there I decided to save some gas, time, and money by going to WM and getting everything else at one location instead of going to 2 or 3 different stores.

I am not anti walmart...I have been diabetic for 27 years...for the past 18 years insulin requiring... my insurance does not cover insulin....Insulin at the CVS, Walgreens, Brooks and the grocery chains range from$42.00-30.00.... insulin has joined forces with Norvodisk to make insulin availible for $19.96/vial... I can get two bottles for the price of one.. when on a limited budget....because psych meds are so expensive my co-pay is $5-50.00 depending on the tier they are on and if it's covered..... I find a lot of great deals at walmart.... they sell Earth Shoes and Dr. Scholls shoes...they also sell other quility name brand things.... oh, that is just my .02 cents....

I am not anti walmart. I guess you could say its because of where i live but without walmart NW arkansas wouldn't the way it is. I live about 5 miles from the walmart headquarters. I want to work there after I get out of school. I don't see any of you saying that they give back to the community. Up by the service desk is a big wall that says how much they have given to the community. Just tonight on the news Walmart gave our commmunity college 4 million dollars to help them expand. I believe in walmart.

Yes I do get tired of all the walmart hype that goes on here. Especially the first weekend in June when shareholders goes on and there is all that added traffic to the walmart stores. But without them many people here wouldn't have jobs.

I LIKE WALMART!

Jbug

Excellent point.

Unfortunately the idea that they give back to the community is a misnomer perhaps perpetuated by the company itself. It promotes the idea that all the profit goes back into the local community. However, from what I've read, the MONEY is deposited into a LOCAL BANK, but then transferred back to the family in Missouri and not used in the community.

I firmly believe the company wasn't always this way, and that Sam must be "rolling over in his grave." When I lived in MO, it was a new company and it was a wonderful place to work... benefits etc (I didn't work there but had many church members who did.)

Now, at least down here, they barely pay minimum wage, and get away with less by forcing ppl to come in and NOT CLOCK IN but do menial tasks for the company. Also, they won't provide full benefits, but actually instruct the employees in how to gain GOVERNMENT assistance such as food stamps to make up the difference in living wages. There is a "million person" class action suit in court NOW suing about these very tactics.

AND Walmart does not assist the communities over all.. as it turns out they come into an area and put all the small businesses out of business, then, in areas where they have sucked the area dry, they close the store...and leave it empty and deteriorating, as well as many former employees who now have no small businesses to find a job in.

In some areas, they agree to do certain improvements to get the permit to build.

(I believe in a small town near Boston?) they agreed to pave a 4 lane highway for over 5 miles in length, which road is a two lane... they never did, they only made a 4 lane RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR STORE, less than a mile. The town had banked on the improvements, and a new bank, a LOWES, several stores, restaurant etc all went into the long stretch of the proposed highway... NOW Walmart has created a huge traffic jam for that poor town which only has a 2 lane undeveloped roadway and up to 32 tractor trailer trucks A DAY going in to deliver to Wally World and Lowes. NOT a good way to do business, IMO. EH?

there are excellent points that have been made about Walmart.

however, there are company policies that aren't ordinarily publicized.

they do provide jobs. they aren't the best or the worst employers in the world.

it isn't the easiest thing in the world to get health insurance with them. i know that because when i worked in ER, we saw tons of patients that worked at Walmart and they had no insurance..so that means that you and i are paying for their care.

The "Made in America" idea died a quick death.

in my area, they sell meat that is only processed by Tyson Foods. i have a distant cousin who raises chickens for Tyson and you would never eat another Tyson product if you knew what goes into the food for their meat products. the Tyson plant that is nearest to my home town has been cited for filth several times. Walmart knows that.

i'm really upfront about this. i don't like them, i don't like their policies and i don't like the fact that they import almost every thing that they sell. and i do not shop there.

i'm just stating my opinion. i'm NOT trying to start an argument. pat

I don't like a lot of things big businesses and companies do. I have read enough and seen enough to know most of them do some very unethical things. People tend to think companies are good because the companies promote such images, and they don't read the magazines or get the news that tells the truth. People want things to be simple, or overly complicated. If they see something on the surface, they don't often want to dig deeper, or at least, not much deeper. They want to believe what they immediately see. Or, they delve into a subject way past the point of sense.

I don't trust businesses. I always suspect they're trying to pull the wool over my eyes. When they present something that looks like a good deal, I know there's likely something not being said. Things you get for great prices aren't always the bargains they seem. I buy products on sale and such, but I'm aware I may not really be getting a bargain. Liquidations and closeouts are usually scams, I read. Everybody's in it for the money, they want to squeeze out every penny they can from you, and they don't care who they hurt.

Plus, some things aren't always black-and-white. Sweatshops are horrible, yet for some people who work in them in other countries (including children), they get paid more in them than in other businesses. It might only be 50 cents, but it's still better than what they can make in other jobs. I'm not saying that's true of all sweatshops, and I'm not saying it's right. I'm just giving an example of how some things that seem one way for some, are the opposite for others.

Companies that do "good" things for the community often do it to make themselves look better. They often spend even more money telling you about those things they did. They want you to like them and to shop from them.

But I'm tired. I don't want to sort out every business, and the companies they do business with, and the companies from whom they buy their products. I care, but there's so much corruption, it's stressful to figure it all out. And I admit it, I like the convenience. I will do some things to fight against companies and products that I find out go against things I believe in, or give money to causes I don't support, but I'm already swamped with things I want to get done, and it's all too confusing.

As a few people have stated, Walmart and other companies appear to help communities sometimes, but there are things going on behind-the-scenes most of us don't know about.

Great original post. great thread. I love jibjab's big box mart video and veggie tale's Madame
blueberry and the Stuff mart. I shop Walmart but am tired of them and all the merchandizers with their tactics to separate us from hardearned money. I am trying to simplify and downsize my life to reduce their stranglehold.

I realize it's a small point, but personally I don't care if a company only does charitable stuff to make themselves look good. When Walmart gave that $4Million to the community college to expand, I doubt they cared about Walmart's motives, either. The money spends just the same.

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_Sky said:
I firmly believe the company wasn't always this way, and that Sam must be "rolling over in his grave."

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i've heard walmart managers say this (in 1995) about walmart headquarters.

Not to get off topic, but I also want to bring to attention, celebrities do big money raisers for certain organizations, but c'mon we all know that they are also bringing lots of attention, wanting everyone to think they are so wonderful, etc. they wear their million dollar gowns and jewelry at such events, it would be nice if they came out with every day clothes while raising funds, ha!ha!
My usual attire, jeans,pullover,clogs or work boots, if I were to start a fund raiser I may not get the same response as they. Ha!ha!
Anyway, that use to bug me that some are also in it for their own glory, but hey, if it gets the cash rolling into the various charities or research, like cancer,heart,diabetes,mental illness, child and animal welfare, just to name a few, then I can overlook the famous person basking in the limelight.
Whatever,whoever,if donations are going to a good cause,people let go the grudges or plain old dislikes.
Sorry to have strayed slightly off topic,but the mentioning on this thread of what Wal Mart or other big bussiness give back to communities and any other donations, caught my eye.

I volunteer at a homeless shelter and I agree with Ben:</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I realize it's a small point, but personally I don't care if a company only does charitable stuff to make themselves look good. When Walmart gave that $4Million to the community college to expand, I doubt they cared about Walmart's motives, either. The money spends just the same.

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Walmart donates socks and underwear and other various clothing items to the shelter---- so many of our city's homeless have benefited from these donations. They are the only store in a city of 600,000 that donate regularly. We are able to help a lot of adults and children thanks to them.

Perhaps they have some undesirable qualities -- like too low of wages, and I personally have had frustrating results with the quality of their clothes-- but I do appreciate their generosity on the flip-side!

just my 2 cents.............

Pat,
That reminds me of the disgusting behind the scenes of fruit and veggies coming from South America, when certain ones are out of season here.
I saw a documentary, where actual human waste sewer water was used to "rinse" off the stuff before shipping, not just plain water.
Now everyone, I'm not going to start about fruits,veggies,organics,pesticides, that are wrong or right here in the US or other places, so keep that in mind, please?
Just the thought, I do not eat that stuff, till it is in season here. There are several things, after seeing documentaries that I have declined to use, but on the other hand I am not going to imprison myself in a bubble, so I enjoy the stuff I do eat and drink, we only live once, so I want to enjoy all I can.
Now, I'll try to stay on topic. LOL!
So many good points I see on this thread, and even some bringing stuff that has been unknown to many of us.

JustBen, do you care about the child that made the shirt that helped WalMart give the $4mil to the college?

Target regularly supplies new items to our local Goodwill.

If we are talking sweat-shops here... Nike.. Gap... Old Navy and Even Disney alll use sweat-shops.... So why is it better to buy name brand at top dollar than to shop at wal mart where the name brand are as guilty as wally world.... Even when buying name brand, designer clothes at Goodwill, they are still made in sweat-shops...

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radio_flyer said:
. . . when buying name brand, designer clothes at Goodwill, they are still made in sweat-shops...

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and

Nike was exposed first......then Kathy Lee Griffin.......and on and on.......i guess we could all grow cotton and sheep and do our own thing with the fabrics.

True, but when you buy at second-hand stores, you aren't contributing to the continued need for new items. Demand goes down, prices are going to come down as well. Maybe closer to the actual value of the item.

Those clothes and other items that I purchase second hand also aren't heading to the landfill. When my need for that item is exhausted, I send it back to Goodwill and it gets a third life. I purchase clothing from eBay as well, especially clothes for my kids. I'm contributing to the income of a private party and obtaining items at a discount.

Bartering, exchanging, and repurposing have been around for centuries. I think it's time that we go back to those ways to preserve the Earth's existence as long as possible, before we don't have a choice and we're forced to live in a way we're not accustomed to. We need to be more self sufficient and reliant on our own strengths and those of other individuals instead of giving mega industries more reason to glut the Earth of it's natural resources.

One could reason that, no matter what you do, you're still contributing to the problem unless you do EVERYTHING yourself, from raising sheep and cotton all the way up to sewing your own clothes. But every step that industry provides that we eliminate by taking it on ourselves is one step closer to fixing the problem. Yes, buying fabric to sew, say, my own yoga pants still means someone had to manufacture the fiber, knit it into a useable form, package it on a cardboard form that had to be made by cutting down trees and polluting our rivers, and ship it to a store. But, cutting, sewing, tagging, shipping, and stocking the finished product has been eliminated.

Every little bit does indeed help.

LOL, Pat, do we have a telepathy thing going on here? I was typing my reply before I saw yours.

and i was going to do the "buying at the thriftstore is way more productrive than buying new", but i gave out.........

I am not against second hand stores... I love Goodwill and thrift shops and yards sales......I love bargains.............All I was saying is folks are angry at wal mart for various reasons, and the designer name brand, fashion clothing stores, allllllllllllllllllllll do the same thing.... and paying at thrift shops doesn't take away the fact they were made in sweat shops..The same lil kid made that t shirt that sells at Gap for $40 is the same t shirt that kid made that sells at Goodwill for $2... '''

I still don't understand why the Goodwill, Gap t-shirt at $2 is ok and lets burn Wal Mart....

BTW I love Wal Mart's prices................and I don't feel guilty buying Clairol at Wal Mart for $4 where the same Clairol and color sell at other stores for $8....