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  #126  
Old Mar 15, 2013, 08:47 PM
ultramar ultramar is offline
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Member Since: Mar 2013
Location: USA
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I would say its largely the symptoms of my mental health issues, that where unfortunatly contributed to by other people though I acknowledge the other factors as well though none of those are anything I chose

You sound so fatalistic here. That because you have mental health issues, which you did not ask for, and others have treated you badly, you are somehow doomed to fail. As someone mentioned, I suspect you have more strength and abilities in you than you think. But to point this out is not blaming you and is no reason to feel guilty. Maybe you're not 'there' yet, but it doesn't mean you can't eventually get there. Don't give up, please!
Thanks for this!
Open Eyes, venusss

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  #127  
Old Mar 18, 2013, 10:54 AM
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Hellion Hellion is offline
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Member Since: Apr 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultramar View Post
I would say its largely the symptoms of my mental health issues, that where unfortunatly contributed to by other people though I acknowledge the other factors as well though none of those are anything I chose

You sound so fatalistic here. That because you have mental health issues, which you did not ask for, and others have treated you badly, you are somehow doomed to fail. As someone mentioned, I suspect you have more strength and abilities in you than you think. But to point this out is not blaming you and is no reason to feel guilty. Maybe you're not 'there' yet, but it doesn't mean you can't eventually get there. Don't give up, please!
I don't quite see where I have indicated I was going to 'give up.' I just don't have the energy to fight every battle so I am ok with letting some things go. I don't think they symptoms are going to go away everything I've learned indicates they wont....I suppose I find it more useful for me to find ways of coping with that rather than telling myself I am going to 'recover' and be free from my mental ailments. I want to try and base my goals in reality not some huge dream just to feel hopeful.
  #128  
Old Mar 18, 2013, 10:55 AM
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Hellion Hellion is offline
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Member Since: Apr 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelaceF View Post
I don't think it's a make or break situation. Eye contact can help, but it's not everything. Visually impaired people have friends too, and no eye contact is possible for them either.

What happened when you tried explaining this to your family, if you did?
They all know and don't bother me about it, if they did though It would bother me a lot.
  #129  
Old Mar 18, 2013, 07:47 PM
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LovelaceF LovelaceF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
If there are so many people that would help and be supportive, why does one have to learn to essentially not attract 'bad' people, why is there never any effort in society to quite encouraging nasty behavior. I wish it was just a few bad people but it's really not that simple at least in my experience. Good people might go along with ostracizing the outcast so they don't get shunned or picked on themselves, good people might react with hostility towards somone who comes off as different from them. I just don't know if that is really true about most people and most people are probably somewhere between good and bad though even those terms are rather simple for the entire spectrum of human behavior. Also this entire society is all about getting ahead and being entirely self sufficient and independent not really much sense of a community.
Of course good and bad are in the mind of the observer. I don't tend to categorize people that strictly, but there are a few people I've written off completely as bad seeds. Everyone else I view as being generally decent, though everyone is capable of harming others intentionally or otherwise. I know that there are many people who've lived through difficulties and come out with a more misanthrophic attitude towards others. This topic is subjective, certainly.

Bullying is a subject that I've researched in some depth. Objectively, the stastics show that a small percentage of people bully others habitually, perhaps 5% - 20%. Roughly 25%-30% report being bullied regularly. Depending on the source and methods, these statistics vary. What is consistent, though, is that MOST people don't bully according to these studies. It's true that there is often less intervention in these matters, either from bystanders or authority figures, than there is bad behavior by a wide margin.

Bullying, too, is subjective to some degree though. I have been teased many times in my life by many people, but I've never *felt* bullied. I've also been threatened, physically, but my attitude has always been rather defiant to this sort of threat. I never felt intimidated, or victimized. Another person may have lived the same experience I did, and come out with a completely different perspective. I think that some of that accounts for the discrepancy between bystanders taking action or standing to the side. If the behavior doesn't seem to everyone to be unacceptable, then of course those people are unlikely to intervene.

I don't know which "society" you live in, so it is difficult for me to comment on your observation that most people want to get ahead and are only out for themselves. I presume that you're referring to that mythos of "dog eat dog" American culture. However, one should not confuse a cultural identity with society. Society is so much richer and more complex than some romanticized vision of cherry trees, apple pie, and a pioneer spirit. There are so many shades of culture in the United States that I would encourage you to try out a few before dismissing the whole of the nation as self absorbed, egotistical jerks.

From many of your statements, I wonder whether you've been able to experience much of life outside your family cocoon. The world is full of possibilities. One's potential cannot be realized, necessarily, in such narrow a field of vision, experience or opportunity. Perhaps the people around you aren't the "right" people, who could contribute to a more fulfilling life for you.
  #130  
Old Mar 18, 2013, 10:04 PM
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-jimi- -jimi- is offline
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Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Northern Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
I don't quite see where I have indicated I was going to 'give up.' I just don't have the energy to fight every battle so I am ok with letting some things go. I don't think they symptoms are going to go away everything I've learned indicates they wont....I suppose I find it more useful for me to find ways of coping with that rather than telling myself I am going to 'recover' and be free from my mental ailments. I want to try and base my goals in reality not some huge dream just to feel hopeful.
You argue from your mind that indeed seems like a clever one and I am glad you don't seem to take offense.

Some people seem to need you to be someone who gives up. Why? So they can feel better about themselves I assume! And I am glad you are setting them straight by saying you do not give up. Accepting you will never be fully normal is not defeat I think. I hope you can get as good as you ever can get. You are living and breathing and posting things that make sense. That in itself has value.

For some reason that is seen as a threat for some people. That really proves to me I'm not wrong in treading carefully, you can find negative people everywhere, the worst kind are those who claim they are so positive, and in their next breath they put someone down.

Good on you for stating your point and standing your ground!
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Thanks for this!
pachyderm
  #131  
Old Mar 18, 2013, 10:31 PM
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Hellion Hellion is offline
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Member Since: Apr 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelaceF View Post
Of course good and bad are in the mind of the observer. I don't tend to categorize people that strictly, but there are a few people I've written off completely as bad seeds. Everyone else I view as being generally decent, though everyone is capable of harming others intentionally or otherwise. I know that there are many people who've lived through difficulties and come out with a more misanthrophic attitude towards others. This topic is subjective, certainly.

Bullying is a subject that I've researched in some depth. Objectively, the stastics show that a small percentage of people bully others habitually, perhaps 5% - 20%. Roughly 25%-30% report being bullied regularly. Depending on the source and methods, these statistics vary. What is consistent, though, is that MOST people don't bully according to these studies. It's true that there is often less intervention in these matters, either from bystanders or authority figures, than there is bad behavior by a wide margin.

Bullying, too, is subjective to some degree though. I have been teased many times in my life by many people, but I've never *felt* bullied. I've also been threatened, physically, but my attitude has always been rather defiant to this sort of threat. I never felt intimidated, or victimized. Another person may have lived the same experience I did, and come out with a completely different perspective. I think that some of that accounts for the discrepancy between bystanders taking action or standing to the side. If the behavior doesn't seem to everyone to be unacceptable, then of course those people are unlikely to intervene.

I don't know which "society" you live in, so it is difficult for me to comment on your observation that most people want to get ahead and are only out for themselves. I presume that you're referring to that mythos of "dog eat dog" American culture. However, one should not confuse a cultural identity with society. Society is so much richer and more complex than some romanticized vision of cherry trees, apple pie, and a pioneer spirit. There are so many shades of culture in the United States that I would encourage you to try out a few before dismissing the whole of the nation as self absorbed, egotistical jerks.

From many of your statements, I wonder whether you've been able to experience much of life outside your family cocoon. The world is full of possibilities. One's potential cannot be realized, necessarily, in such narrow a field of vision, experience or opportunity. Perhaps the people around you aren't the "right" people, who could contribute to a more fulfilling life for you.
Yes I live in the U.S and I don't see what is so great about the society, I know society and culture are not really the same thing but there does not seem to be any specific culture either.

Also I don't dismiss everyone who lives here as self absorbed egotistical jerks, I just have a problem with society seeming to allow for that if not encourage it.

I went to college and nothing good really came out of that or anyone I met while in it...that was across the state far from everyone I knew. The thing is I have no idea how to meet people, where to meet them or how to even make friends and know if they are genuine or just using me. Also I guess it sucks for me maybe they aren't the right people because those are the people in my life. I don't even have the means or ability to be self sufficient on my own so I kind of depend on my family somewhat to survive I can't just up and move out with nowhere to go and hope I meet the 'right' people.

And it is the larger society I dislike as well, I don't think its a myth that it's extremely difficult to survive in this society, especially if you can't generally keep up with it.
Hugs from:
pachyderm
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