[thickntired]

Hi,

I wasn't sure where to post this thread. I've been IP for 5 days to partial hospitalization for 3 weeks from a killer manic episode. I met a few patients who claimed to be bipolar as well, but the symptoms and behavior didn't add up imo. Again this is my opinion as a fellow bipolar not a professional. I'm not trying to offend anyone. Obviously wanting to act mentally ill is not normal. I just felt invalidated and offended when I saw patients act only under observation, tell me they want to work the system, brazenly show off scratches or color them with markers to better show where they self harmed. Others were doing a lot of drugs and already drawing checks. It was really frustrating because these ppl were disruptive and just counting down the time until they could leave and get wasted or apply for aid.

Primary Psychiatry: Determination of Malingering in Disability Evaluations

[The_little_didgee]

You have a lot of courage. I commend you for discussing this.

I haven't been hospitalized in 15 years, but I still remember quite vividly the faking that occurred there. It was frustrating to hear stories of how those fakers were getting admitted at regular intervals and so on. What made me livid, was the professionals actually listened to those fakers and gave them axis 1 diagnoses, while me an autistic was told my personality was disordered. After that, I couldn't get care, even when I was desperately ill with psychosis. Apparently, it was caused by abandonment issues. Huh?

It turns out, I was misdiagnosed. Obviously, the fakers were too, but since they had Axis 1 conditions, they got way more respect than I ever did.

Last October, I mentioned faking and bogus hospitalizations to my psychiatrist and she admitted to me it was common.

Why the hell would someone want to show their self-injury scars? I remember, patients used to do that to new admissions. My very first morning was a lesson on how to self-harm, something I never did. A patient came in my room and introduced herself. She then showed me her scars and told me how she did it.

Sorry, I am not in a very good mood tonight.

[The_little_didgee]

My hospitalizations traumatized me. Why would someone want to go through that?

[unlived]

Originally Posted by thickntired

I met a few patients who claimed to be bipolar as well, but the symptoms and behavior didn't add up imo.

What does this even mean? Ive been in hospital maybe 10 times for bipolar & each time my "symptoms and behavior" were different - but each time I was still bipolar.

Can you give some specifics?

[thickntired]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

My hospitalizations traumatized me. Why would someone want to go through that?

I totally agree! It's a horrible thing to endure and my heart goes out to those so ill that they have to be doped up all day.

[thickntired]

Originally Posted by unlived

What does this even mean? Ive been in hospital maybe 10 times for bipolar & each time my "symptoms and behavior" were different - but each time I was still bipolar.

Can you give some specifics?

I don't want to get into any heated discussions. This is my opinion. One patient was facing a felony drug charge and claims bipolar II. She told the therapists she is Saint of angels whom she talks with everyday or one day I was a marine biologist angel. This is not imo a normal side effect of bipolar II - hallucinations and voices. She also would insult ppl and then apologize because it's just my mania acting up. I told her that in our state my friend made like $650 a month on ssd and she went to the welfare office after our OP therapy because quote working the system was too hard. She has never taken meds sbd disrupts our group all day.

of these patients were young and indigent. A paranoid schizophrenic was a heavy meth user who refused meds and behaved like a person completely strung out on drugs.

There are numerous examples online. It's not a classified disorder and many stay in and out of mental wards because if the Dr claims malingring or pathological liar they can't make money. The ppl who totally exaggerated symptoms were mostly facing legal prosecution.

I've been through institutions for 20 years but this is the first time I noticed this problem. It could be due to the recession.

TnT

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

My hospitalizations traumatized me. Why would someone want to go through that?

Exactly! I don't understand why people would willingly put themselves through that if they're not actually having serious issues.

People do fake mental illness, I don't understand why, but they do. I'm sorry you're having to be around that, I know it's not easy and I know it's not an easy topic to bring up either.

[Tiger_Lily]

Weird, about the fakers, not that I haven't seen them. I tend to minimize my symptoms, even with my pdoc.

[avlady]

And what's with trying to get the help i need now that I want it because i need it? I used to be hospitalized if i said the word fart in the 1980's, now i am a true schitzophrenic, diagnosed years ago, and if i have an episode, which nobody would want to happen, i can't get admitted to the pscyc ward, even while i'm having an episode. These fakers are ruining the system, but i see the doc would probabaly get in trouble if they didn't do something. I used to be fighting the system of being put in the hospital, now i need it and want it and can't get the help i so badly need.

[hahalebou]

The system is so screwed up. People who need emergency help with their mental illness can't get it, but those who don't really need emergency help at all are filling up the beds! It's maddening. If only mental illnesses were as visible as a flesh wound.

Although, just to be the devil's advocate, I'd argue that anyone faking a mental illness is probably in need of psychiatric help anyway. Most of the time they probably don't need to be hospitalized, but I'd definitely recommend therapy. They're attention-seeking for a reason. Probably because they were deprived of it, or something to that effect.

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

Why the hell would someone want to show their self-injury scars? I remember, patients used to do that to new admissions. My very first morning was a lesson on how to self-harm, something I never did. A patient came in my room and introduced herself. She then showed me her scars and told me how she did it.

Oh god. That makes me sick to my stomach. What an awful trigger to experience in what's supposed to be a "safe place". I'm sorry you went through that.

[RedBarchetta]

It's really hard to say too much...I know I have some stuff going on, that most people would not notice in most situations, but it dose get in the way a lot...Also a whole list of symptoms that has no DX or way to eliminate them yet.
Mentally, the only official DX is GAD - but I KNOW there is way more than that, but again it can't be that bad, even that is only noticed once in a while, and seems to fairly easily be dismissed; "Having a bad day", "very emotional right now", exc.
And I personally try to avoid that type of hospital - and have so far (came close, but have not once actually been in a psych hospital, there ER, but no farther. At times I actually do think it's not a bad idea though, not essential, but - well, I don't think people are really going the just of the issues, and I doubt they ever will without actually seeing it, and that's not likely to happen unless they are right there to see it happen....On the other hand, I have had some bad experiences with medical hospitals before, and, well - basically it's a hard sell to get me to do that unless I know all that would be involved with anything first - and not just doctors - it would have to be every nurse I am going to deal with, security, if I might at any point have them involved in any treatment, or in control of anything, I need to know them well first - otherwise, not interested. (and that's also why only one medical hospital will do as well, but that one dose not have a psych ward - if they did....BUT the don't...If that one suggested somewhere, MAYBE, but I would STILL be skeptical, and cautious.

[Odee]

I think a few days in the hospital to receive disability is all the motivation anyone needs to malinger in a psychiatric ward. It is probably faarrr less traumatizing for them than it is you. Psychiatrists depend so much on the DSM check list that all you really need to do is repeat the list of symptoms and you are set to pay rent and buy drugs. It's a lot faster and involves far less work than getting a job.

However, you also have to understand that plenty of us are still accused of faking or wanting attention from others. So don't be toooo quick to judge.

[HHDodger]

I was in the hospital about six months ago with someone who was faking everything from her voices down to a sore knee. If anyone was getting attention for any "problem" all of a sudden she had that problem too. We were admitted the same day, but within about 18 hours she was gone. We, the other patients and I had to speak up for ourselves and let the staff know what was really going on.

[Sabra]

Can we all say secondary gain in unison?

Sabra

[Redsoft]

Thanks for making this post, thickntired. It relates quite a lot to the similar if not same issue I have with the mental health "system" or care process that frustrates me...

To be sure, some people's mental health struggles are more "obvious" in that those are nature of the symptoms. I don't mean to say I hold this against people or find it ridiculous or something of that sort - it's just a different struggle.

On the other hand, the problems I deal with are "closet" issues...major depression, anxiety, anorexia, nos mood/anger disorder, and just recently I've discovered I may have either schizoid and possibly avoidant personality disorder, which would explain in part if not fully why I have been so able to hide these things much of the time.

Because of my personality/way of dealing with my mental health struggles, I am quiet, not very revealing at all, and understated without meaning to. I feel like I have always gotten the short end of the stick with treatment/diagnosis just because I'm not "loud" enough. As if less effort was spent on me because of the way I appeared in the office, despite my continued worsening issues, emotional emails (it's easier not face-to-face), and described symptoms (even if I do state them with zero emotion or tears). I would do better, so to speak, to have myself heard, but therein is where my problems lie anyway, isn't it? Stuck.

It's just thoroughly disturbing to me that the mental healthcare trend seems to be catering to these more outward displays, and thinking of the quiet ones as sort of more able to "deal." It's almost this feeling of, "Oh, well you're not having hallucinations or being abrasive to others or talking to yourself constantly in public, so because you're not disturbing anyone, you'll be fine."

I have known others describe the types of situations you have in inpatient setting, and it's so frustrating. Indeed, they are just filling up beds. Yes, clearly by faking a mental health crisis, they have a condition fueling that... but they need to be held accountable for whatever it is, pathological lying, grandiose thoughts, whatever - legally if need be, for fraudulence. Furthermore, a liar does not need a hospital bed or 24 hour care, especially when it's just a desperate person looking for handouts or are desperate to feed their family. Things are just too lax, and I pity the doctors caught up in this because everyone is so sue-happy now.

[yellowted]

the mental health wards are just the same as any other ward or place, you will get the truly ill and the fakers who are there for other reasons, some see it as an easy life, an excuse not to work, some use them as a free boarding house,others unfortunately will be there to prey on the truly ill, i know of one person who is renound for checking in simply to steal cash and untraceables from patients closets, now to me she knew what she was doing, but to the nurses she played up and blamed it on her mental state, she always denied taking cash, but funily enough always had enough to order in takeaway/carryout to be delivered to the ward for her supper!

[Nammu]

Originally Posted by Dodger

I was in the hospital about six months ago with someone who was faking everything from her voices down to a sore knee. If anyone was getting attention for any "problem" all of a sudden she had that problem too. We were admitted the same day, but within about 18 hours she was gone. We, the other patients and I had to speak up for ourselves and let the staff know what was really going on.

A similar thing happened when I was put on a 72 hour hold when I tried to find partial hospital program. I detest hospitals here and will not go because they are not HC accessible, each time I've been in one I have called Disability Rights and they are investigated and found not in compliance of the ADA laws but make no changes. I don't talk much about my stuff but the inpatients there were trying to help me get out and get the things I needed for my physical problems and there was a woman who was admitted at the same time I was who watched all that and then, out of sight of anyone she "fell" dizzy from meds she said, and hurt her ankle. The next thing you know she had a wheelchair and pain meds and was higher than a kite. Most of the patients there said she did this a lot( there were a number of people that seemed to be regular visitors there), she wanted attention & drugs and she would park herself very close and center in front of the TV where she sat in a stupor & turned it up so loud the rest of us couldn't hear each other. Many complained, but until one guy talked directly to the nursing supervisor nothing was done. After he talked to the supervisor she was discharged a couple of hours later, w/ loud protestations that she would kill herself if they made her leave & also she wanted pain pill prescription! I think that people like that use the threat of suicide to get what they want and treatment is not traumatic to them because they thrive on discord as long as they are getting attention and they don't care if it is negative attention or not.

I agree that there are people who use up the resources and they shouldn't be but I believe part of the problem is the arbitrary nature of psychiatry, until there is a better way to diagnose and treat those with MI, those that want attention or drugs will continue to use the system to meet their own needs. I believe many of them are somewhat narcissistic and don't think about the consequences of their actions. Others are simply trying to escape though drugs-Do they need help, yes. But they will not get the kind of help they need under our current system because it is meeting their short term goals and the system is training them to continue to do that, and it is easier for the staff to deal with eager patients than the truly ill patients so the staff has no reason to change the way things are either. So it is up to the truly MI patients to yell out and get heard about how dysfunctional this system is & insist on compassion, kindness and respectful service for every MI person, not just the wealthy ones. Ironic! The ill are the ones that need to get things done in between the disabling episodes!
Sorry about the rambling & this is a topic that gets me going.

Thanks for having the courage to bring this up.

[ultramar]

Though the disability issue may be more of a current problem due to the recession, I suspect that the attention-seeking phenomenon has been around since the beginning of time.

But I would think that one thing that has made it 'easier' to fake symptoms/illness is the internet. We all have such easy access to the symptoms and manifestations of different mental illnesses; in theory, you could go to the ER (or to a psychiatrist) and say you are experiencing the whole DSM list of criteria for a given illness. I've read that this is one of the ways in which people who just want the meds have faked ADHD. But how do psychiatrists tell the difference, then, between faking and the real thing when someone says they're experiencing exactly what the criteria states?

I would think that, in some cases, using a lot of jargon could send up red flags? For example, in bipolar disorder, when I've talked to my psychiatrist about my experiences, I don't say 'I have racing thoughts.' Or, 'I get grandiose.' These are technical, psychological terms, not a personal description of what I'm feeling and experiencing. These things also probably manifest themselves in different ways with different people, they're pretty non-specific. I would think if someone really can't describe in their own words, their own idiosyncratic experiences of such things, maybe this could be a sign, not sure.

Just some thoughts. But I do think the internet can play a big role in such things.

[Miswimmy1]

I do not understand why someone would admit themselves and go through everything if they were "faking"?

[thickntired]

Thank you all for the replies!! I was hesitant to post this for fear of backlash. It is annoying when those who are truly ill can't get the attention or support bc of a few disruptive patients. Today I asked my6 therapist if she encounters malingering at the hospital. She said absolutely. I mean if you have a court date you can't make just check into an institution for a get out of jail free card. I also read that patient's and nurse's safety is at risk with many of these ppl. hiding out IP. Like the girl in my group was kicked out of rehab so why the hell does a Dr feel she needs OP?! It's like they don't want to deal with her lying manipulation so they send her to a psych ward to be obnoxious.

I really am trying to remain tollerant, but like I told her - hey I'm paying to be here and I want help. Meanwhile you monopolize the therapy sessions with problems like your crush on boys, affinity for drugs, and the delima of how to make money so you can attend more music festivals.

Thanks again for all the posts. I'm only OP for another week so I'll just ride this one out

TnT

[-jimi-]

I was kicked out of hosp for being a faker. I have never been crazier. But they had me diagnosed depressed and I have no idea what I was, but it wasn't depressed, so maybe that was why they thought I wasn't real. I had extreme high moods, confusion where I couldn't recall my friend's name and spells where I could just break into tears. I also had some weird interactions with other patients, like one guy we had fake fights and escaped from the ward and did all kinds of weird things you shouldn't do in hosp. But I was just normal. Yup yup. LOL.

[unlived]

Originally Posted by thickntired

I don't want to get into any heated discussions. This is my opinion.

Not looking to get into heated discussions either - I've just never experienced it in a hospital setting. I HAVE experienced it outside of hospital though - everyone seems to have bipolar to be "cool". If only it really was cool.

May be different in different countries too I guess - but Ive never seen someone faking in the hospitals here (Australia).

[yellowted]

the problem with fakers is when people are really not faking they don't get believed, i have a motor disorder which at the time meant i was only just able to walk holding on to something, yet for seven weeks i was made to walk from my room about 250m three times a day and stand in line waiting for my meds and three times a day again stand in line to get my meals because staff said i was faking it! a few months later i was unable to walk at all and was back in but this time i insisted on having my wheelchair in with me even then some of the staff did not believe i needed it and on two occasions it was removed from my room during the night so i could not get my meds or food until it was brought back. i eventually complained to the head ofthe department who made out a special care plan stating food and meds had to be brought to me every time and that my wheelchair had not to be removed again!

[girlwithbrownhair]

Originally Posted by thickntired

Hi,

I wasn't sure where to post this thread. I've been IP for 5 days to partial hospitalization for 3 weeks from a killer manic episode. I met a few patients who claimed to be bipolar as well, but the symptoms and behavior didn't add up imo. Again this is my opinion as a fellow bipolar not a professional. I'm not trying to offend anyone. Obviously wanting to act mentally ill is not normal. I just felt invalidated and offended when I saw patients act only under observation, tell me they want to work the system, brazenly show off scratches or color them with markers to better show where they self harmed. Others were doing a lot of drugs and already drawing checks. It was really frustrating because these ppl were disruptive and just counting down the time until they could leave and get wasted or apply for aid.

Primary Psychiatry: Determination of Malingering in Disability Evaluations

THANK YOU so much for bringing this up. I was in a hospital for severe anxiety (really, to sauy a person isn't themselves with anxiety doesn't even come close). I was in hell, and here in there were these two, like you said, c prosection for drugs. The one was so, so happy to be diagnosed with bipolar. Everybody just looked at her like she was nuts (pun not inteded but there ya are). Except the guy (who was also facing drug charges). By day 2 she was already saner than I'll ever be, lol.

To be in a place like that is like total hell for me...worst times of my life. As it should be. The sick part was, the day I was released (on a drug so strong I had to be prodded into knowing what year it was), I walked home, paid my rent, and went into work, terrified of my mental health. Could I do this? It was a fight...and I did good, I am happy to say.

I really just want to punch fakers out, I hate them that much (gotta be careful, ya know I'm just joking right?). And what do they do? Use their SSD to do drugs. Suddenly all healed well enough to stay sane drinking and doing drugs for days at a time, eh?

I lived at a homeless shelter that took in the people kicked out from the ward. I was really not doing well but fought to stay strong and get better. I was bullied becasue I wasn't the kind of "player" you saw in the hospital. I really was. Staying in a homeless shelter got them SSD that much faster, you see and I guess they didn't weant to be reminded they were fakers (or reported). Monday-thursday they went to therapy, slept in, did nothing. I'd go into work and they'd be sleeping on the sofa (again). I paid rent and they lived there for free wawing their SSD. Come Friday 2pm the bathrooms all filled up with these same women going to the bars. Me and the other (few) working women--and we none of us are proud to flaunt our mental problems trust me, I have scars but nobody will ever see them--we'd call it The Sudden Friday Cure.

Sorry, I'm also not in a great mood. They don't allow regular homeless in the homeless shelter I in anymore, just people out of jail for drugs awaiting SSD, getting to live for free on HUD through the Homeless Coalition. But the real homeless women are on the streets, I pass them on my way home from work. I gave some money to one girl sleeping in the 7-11 lot. "NO room" the shelter I used to lvie in told her, but just inside, drunk and buying booze, were 3 women I knew living in that shelter, against regulations as they are supposed to have a curfew and stay away from booze. All placed there by judges for their protection, hmmph. They sat there at that register snickering at me the same way they did when I lived there with them. Man that set me off.

Sick world, sicker than I'll ever be. And they're the ones designating who's "sick", lol...

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by thickntired

Today I asked my6 therapist if she encounters malingering at the hospital. She said absolutely. I mean if you have a court date you can't make just check into an institution for a get out of jail free card.

Some other reasons: bedbugs, no money for groceries, homelessness, a vacation...

I met a guy who was admitted to all 7 hospitals in this city of 900 000. He had a personality disorder and was perpetually suicidal. I felt sorry for the guy. Hopefully, he turned his life around.

Originally Posted by thickntired

I really am trying to remain tollerant, but like I told her - hey I'm paying to be here and I want help. Meanwhile you monopolize the therapy sessions with problems like your crush on boys, affinity for drugs, and the delima of how to make money so you can attend more music festivals.

How old is this person? She sounds like a teenager.

Perhaps, groups should have age ranges. Twenty year olds have very different issues than people 30+.

Thickntired, I hope the last week will be better for you.