[kreg]

I've known people who for example don't seem to be aware of rules of courtesy in social situations. A girl I work with will ask questions of peoples personal life that normally people don't ask out of respect for privacy. Such as 'how much do you make an hour?' or 'you were gone for a few days because of illness. Why?'. This girl is somewhat handicapped and lives in an assisted living environment.

We were talking at work one day when a co-worker said he had a son who was gay and had a boyfriend whom he would bring to the parents house for dinner occasionally. Being a typical father he loved his son anyway but another worker made the comment 'I'll bet you are really ashamed of that!' saying it not in any mean way at all but just making an observation.

My question-Is there a name for lacking in social skill like this or is it just a matter of immaturity or whatever? I have my own problems with social intelligence sometimes so that's why I ask. If there is a name or category for it then maybe there's a way towards improvement.

Originally Posted by kreg

I've known people who for example don't seem to be aware of rules of courtesy in social situations.

My question-Is there a name for lacking in social skill like this or is it just a matter of immaturity or whatever? I have my own problems with social intelligence sometimes so that's why I ask. If there is a name or category for it then maybe there's a way towards improvement.

The problem is actually you , your reaction , mentally , physically to what other people are saying = you getting annoyed , breathing faster , hot under the collar etc The answer i would say to the "Ashamed of that " person is "Thanks for your concern ".

[kreg]

Can I rephrase my post? Is there such a thing as lacking in social skills or being socially awkward without necessarily fitting one of the disorder classifications? In my case and I may fit one of the categories of disorder-I don't know, but I sometimes think it just took me an awful long time to become aware of some of the not so fine points of social conduct. It's like I wish someone would have just pointed out some of these things to me years ago.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by kreg

Can I rephrase my post? Is there such a thing as lacking in social skills or being socially awkward without necessarily fitting one of the disorder classifications? In my case and I may fit one of the categories of disorder-I don't know, but I sometimes think it just took me an awful long time to become aware of some of the not so fine points of social conduct. It's like I wish someone would have just pointed out some of these things to me years ago.

I've heard such people called "under socialized". And yes, someone doesn't have to have a disorder to be socially awkward. There are also cultural differences and some differences based on age and I wouldn't be surprised by gender, as well, in communicating. There are books on how to converse with others that are helpful.

The father of the gay son could have replied "Oh, not at all, I love my son."

I've worked in a coffeehouse for over a decade...the number of people who have poor social skills astounds me.

[kreg]

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

I've heard such people called "under socialized". And yes, someone doesn't have to have a disorder to be socially awkward. There are also cultural differences and some differences based on age and I wouldn't be surprised by gender, as well, in communicating. There are books on how to converse with others that are helpful.

The father of the gay son could have replied "Oh, not at all, I love my son."

That's almost exactly what he said. The guy who made the comment didn't show any reaction but I wonder if he later thought about what he said.

[kreg]

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

I've worked in a coffeehouse for over a decade...the number of people who have poor social skills astounds me.

I grew up thinking the world was a good place where mostly everyone was normal and completely without mental problems. Now I realize everybody has some problem and many are quite afflicted in certain ways yet for the most part you don't see it in them. Someone told me most people have a time in their lives when they go through serious mental pain.

Then it's very likely true. This world is a school we incarnate into.

A therapist once told me he didn't know anybody who didn't have some mental bugs. I like that quote by Manson.

[Hellion]

Well the first example you give sounds like it could be a more outgoing person with possible autism, though I can't say that for sure but seems like a possibility. Because with that disorder which I have to people have difficulties with social interaction and can sometimes say sort of out of place things without realizing it might come off as rude. I have had that happen before, but its certainly not intended as rude...though I don't really talk much around people I don't know very well. Then again if I was home sick and someone asked what I had I wouldn't think them rude for it, and it seems a lot of people ask 'what do you do for a living' which can lead to the question of 'how much do you make' so not sure if that's actually rude to most people.

However the second example does actually sound like more intentional rudeness, there is actually stigma towards gay people and so unfortunately it's not entirely uncommon someone would causally say something like that, but it still is rude.

[Perna]

We have to learn social skills and that takes opportunity/experience in situations where we can practice and get feedback that our interaction is not working in "this" situation. It is helpful if one has high self-esteem and is kind/has knowledge of how to deflect/respond to the poorly asked questions/curiosity (there's nothing wrong with curiosity!!! Not asking "how much do you make?" is a social convention, not a "bad" thing to do) in such a way the other person realizes you do not want to talk about that subject but does not feel badly for having brought it up. Eventually we get various responses when we ask a question or make a comment others generally do not like (some done well, some "ugly"/thoughtless/hurtful) so we don't ask that question/make comments "like" that anymore.

With someone I know to be developmentally handicapped, I would use the opportunity of being asked something like how much I make an hour to help them understand it is not a question many like to be asked and many will not be kind when responding. I would answer the question truthfully (I would have no problem with that particular person knowing how much I make an hour -- I would assume they were curious and not someone with an ulterior motive, not someone who is going to go to the boss with, "Perna makes $2/hour more than I do and I think I should make that much!" or something :-)

With someone commenting, "I'll bet you are really ashamed of that!" to me, about my son who is gay, I would reply, "Not at all, I'm quite proud of him! Why do you feel I should be ashamed?" and start a dialog that might help the person rethink their ideas of gay persons. If the comment is just made in my presence though, I would not say anything, it is not being made to me and is not my problem/responsibility/conversation (whether or not I have a gay son or not too). I would merely file away in my head that that person has an attitude toward gays that is not the same as mine and would make sure I do not get in a conversation/further conversations with him about that subject, just as I would not discuss my beliefs about God with an atheist (would not conversationally -- if it were a political thing and the other person was trying to force their beliefs/laws on me I would respond, personally, to the "threat" to my personal well-being).

Originally Posted by kreg

I grew up thinking the world was a good place where mostly everyone was normal and completely without mental problems. Now I realize everybody has some problem and many are quite afflicted in certain ways yet for the most part you don't see it in them. Someone told me most people have a time in their lives when they go through serious mental pain.

Then it's very likely true. This world is a school we incarnate into.

A therapist once told me he didn't know anybody who didn't have some mental bugs. I like that quote by Manson.

Yeah, I grew up the same way...thinking the same thing. At this point I believe that almost everybody lives with serious mental pain nearly all of the time. Reminds me of "The Logical Song" by Super Tramp.

Manson is crazy, but he's not stupid

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

Manson is crazy, but he's not stupid

If only he didn't listen to that song " Helter Skelter " .

Originally Posted by kreg

I grew up thinking the world was a good place where mostly everyone was normal and completely without mental problems.

This is a result of a " Lack of Boundaries " parents making you defenseless to obey them , without thought of what is right or wrong. Also this is why listening to what other people say is affecting you so much.

A great book about this is " Boundaries " When to say YES , When to say NO - by Dr.Henry Cloud

[-jimi-]

I think the boundary thing is the issue. My family has lack of boundaries towards me and it happens more inside families than outside, because there they dare being judgmental, nosy and bossy. Actually it's not rare to have this pattern inside families. Taking it outside is less common because usually some kind of social anxiety sets in to prevent people from making others uncomfortable.

Some are just unable to see that happening, they feel that they are entitled to that behavior. In some cases people just have crappy social skills because their neurology, but more often they are just taught this is OK. That it is OK to just spread their ego all over the place and invade others. It's a very annoying behavior. The thing is we encourage it by allowing it. If we say that it is not OK to ask that, we might do these people a favor. Judging people seem to have more social insight, they more think their opinion is right and should be pushed, but they should also be told their behavior is not acceptable.

Now I think it is a cultural thing and we don't have a lot of nosy people here. But some are and they seem to actually lack shame, totally lack social anxiety (too much is bad but a little is normal). If told it is not OK to ask what they did they can push the Why? question as forcefully. They are just very immature and act on a child's level socially.

But also there actually are no rules what you can ask about. And I'm not really happy with the existing norm that is (at least here) you ca always ask why someone is sick or on disability (Why is that normal???) but you can't ask other less sensitive stuff. It is like the more oppressive nosiness is socially acceptable. Maybe it is time we stop following norms that we believe are healthy and sane, and actually change them to what is kind and accepting.

[RRex]

There was a time, well before the internet, that people were actually taught interpersonal skills and privacy was respected by others. That time has passed.

Now it is fashionable to be extremely nosy about other people's lives.

[trying2survive]

Originally Posted by kreg

I've known people who for example don't seem to be aware of rules of courtesy in social situations. A girl I work with will ask questions of peoples personal life that normally people don't ask out of respect for privacy. Such as 'how much do you make an hour?' or 'you were gone for a few days because of illness. Why?'. This girl is somewhat handicapped and lives in an assisted living environment.

We were talking at work one day when a co-worker said he had a son who was gay and had a boyfriend whom he would bring to the parents house for dinner occasionally. Being a typical father he loved his son anyway but another worker made the comment 'I'll bet you are really ashamed of that!' saying it not in any mean way at all but just making an observation.

My question-Is there a name for lacking in social skill like this or is it just a matter of immaturity or whatever? I have my own problems with social intelligence sometimes so that's why I ask. If there is a name or category for it then maybe there's a way towards improvement.

i call it a lack of tact

Originally Posted by Bad Boy

If only he didn't listen to that song " Helter Skelter " .

MmmmHmmm.....

[-jimi-]

Originally Posted by RRex

There was a time, well before the internet, that people were actually taught interpersonal skills and privacy was respected by others. That time has passed.

Now it is fashionable to be extremely nosy about other people's lives.

I'm always skeptical when people blame technological advances. Everything new has always "ruined" people, like the phone and radio...

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

Yeah, I grew up the same way...thinking the same thing. At this point I believe that almost everybody lives with serious mental pain nearly all of the time. Reminds me of "The Logical Song" by Super Tramp.

Manson is crazy, but he's not stupid

I think part of life is experiencing mental pain, and yes everyone will suffer that...in some situations it would be very strange not to experience mental pain even if you're a mentally healthy individual.

However I doubt most people have a serious diagnosable mental disorder/condition/disability or whatever that they have to live with every day. Though there are certainly plenty of things going on in the world and societies that certainly contribute to mental illness and can cause increases in it....but not everyone develops mental problems from those things, some people develop more physical stress related problems than mental ones, some get a lot of both.

Originally Posted by Hellion

I think part of life is experiencing mental pain, and yes everyone will suffer that...in some situations it would be very strange not to experience mental pain even if you're a mentally healthy individual.

However I doubt most people have a serious diagnosable mental disorder/condition/disability or whatever that they have to live with every day. Though there are certainly plenty of things going on in the world and societies that certainly contribute to mental illness and can cause increases in it....but not everyone develops mental problems from those things, some people develop more physical stress related problems than mental ones, some get a lot of both.

All my female friends are successful, capable people. And yet, I'd say that half of them are on psych meds of some kind (commonly ssri's and anti-anxiety meds).

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

All my female friends are successful, capable people. And yet, I'd say that half of them are on psych meds of some kind (commonly ssri's and anti-anxiety meds).

Ok and how would that imply the majority of people are suffering from severe mental illness? From what I understand you can be mildly depressed and still get anti-depressants if the doctor thinks they will help any.......I also think sometimes they over-prescribe.

Either way I cannot say what your friends suffer with or not or to what extent, but half of your female friends being on psych meds is not really an indication most people are suffering from serious mental illness to the point they've had to be hospitalized for it, have attempted suicide and cannot even hold a job due to it or have significant troubles holding a job over it.

Something tells me if they are successful capable people, they have either found a treatment regimen that alleviates their severe symptoms enough for them to accomplish that........or maybe they had more mild cases of mental illness to begin with, and are just having it treated before it gets out of hand, maybe they don't need the anti-depressants I couldn't say.

Either way based on looking at studies, statistics and taking some psychology classes I am quite certain most people are not suffering from diagnose mental illness, let alone severe mental illness/disorders.

[-jimi-]

Most people I know are a little nutty but I think it is because I couldn't stand having normal friends.

My best friend has some kind of neuropsych issues that never been diagnosed and she messes up quite a bit and people ask me why I hang out with her because her messing up affects me. Well, she has other things that are positive, in that way most people are lacking.

Also most of my friends are gay but I'm still aware most people are not, but since they are so many around me I find it hard to estimate how many people in all are gay, I would probably overestimate a bit since being gay is the norm for my circle of friends.